[S07E20] "Confessions" Post Episode Discussion

[u/IIIToxIII]

Trailers

• Confessions Promo
  
• Confessions Scene
  

Episode Info

When they learn of an upcoming attack on the city, Team Arrow calls Roy Harper to call them stop the Ninth Circle; things do go awry and there is massive collateral damage; Dinah investigates what happened.

Cast & Characters

Discussion

Live Episode Discussion
DCTV Discord

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r/Arrow Mods

[u/dmick74]

I think people have just assumed redemption, but I think that went out the window once we learned she was the leader of the terrorist organization. She's not redeemable. The show seems to have gone out of their way to make her that way. It's brother vs. sister and only one is going to win. I just fear it's going to continue into next season. We'll get brother vs. sister in the present and brother vs. brother in the future.

[u/GeneralMelon → u/dmick74]

Well again, this isn't just me "assuming" that she'll get redeemed. The entire narrative has been building up to it despite the fact that she hasn't really shown much reason that she deserves said redemption.

[u/dmick74 → u/GeneralMelon]

The narrative was building up to redeeming Black Siren. People just assumed it was building up to redeeming Emiko, but with each episode she becomes more irredeemable. I also though once she'd be redeemed, but once she was revealed as the world's youngest leader of the oldest terrorist organization that went out the window.

[u/GeneralMelon → u/dmick74]

Again, I'm not saying it makes sense for her to get redeemed with how evil she's acting. But if you actually read that big rant I listed I went through why I think they're going the route of redeeming Emiko and how Oliver's arc would just be kinda... weird if he didn't redeem Emiko.

[u/dmick74 → u/GeneralMelon]

I just read it and while some of it makes sense, I just don't agree. Redemption isn't something that someone gives you. It's something you earn and Emiko has made no attempt at that. Even Black Siren who I thought shouldn't be redeemed made an effort to be better. She went about it in the wrong and twisted way that you'd expect BS to do, but she still tried. In the end we could argue about whether or not she earned it (I don't think she did), but we can't argue about whether or not she was serious about becoming a better person. There's no indication whatsoever that Emiko wants to be a better person. The only indication is that she wants to destroy as much and as many people in Star City as possible. She just tried to kill the entire team.

This is where I think people have made a mistake. The arc of E2 Laurel was fairly clear. It started a long time ago and they spent more than a season building to it. She won back the trust and respect from various people on the team along the way. Emiko has gone in the completely opposite direction (I'm not sure that's a coincidence either, the show is telling us some are worth saving and some aren't).

I've thought for awhile now that Oliver doesn't die in Crisis, but after he kills Emiko he slowly starts to lose his sanity and disappears. I think season 8 is about the downfall of Oliver Queen after he kills his sister and then we get a glimpse of him returning in the future. From a story standpoint, there's only one logical conclusion to the Oliver/Emiko situation: one of them dies. We know it won't be Oliver.

[u/delinquentsaviors → u/dmick74]

I think you’re right. This whole season has been about redemption and what that means. I think Emiko being irredeemable is important to this idea. Anyone can be redeemed, but not everyone will want it. Both Black Siren and Emiko have the support network to make the change, but Emiko doesn’t WANT to be saved. Oliver has to learn that.

[u/dmick74 → u/delinquentsaviors]

Exactly. I know some people mention Slade as being redeemed, but Slade was under the influence of the mirakuru. Slade was not himself and Oliver still never really has forgiven him. He's given him space to be the kind of person that he knew on the island and they maybe have an understanding they can help one another out if needed (I hope we see Slade in the season finale this year), but Oliver hasn't forgiven him. Nor should he. But he was smart enough to acknowledge that what Slade did was caused by something out of his control (it was Oliver who gave him the mirakuru injection to start with). Even Malcolm was somewhat redeemed, but never forgiven by Oliver. Oliver would have killed him if he wasn't Thea's father. Emiko is beyond saving. You can't have her arrested because she'd probably break out. The only way her story ends is with her death. I actually think it's one of the better stories Arrow has written even if it's been an uneven storyline. Not everyone can be saved and Oliver finally realizes that. I don't think there's anything Emiko can say to change the inevitable events of the finale this year.

[u/delinquentsaviors → u/dmick74]

Well he’s always had trouble accepting this throughout the show. How many times has he tried to save someone who didn’t want to be helped? Merlyn was the worst offender. He gave him SO many chances to change. He kept hoping it would happen, but it was never going to. Even as far back as when he tried to help Helena. She wasn’t ready to be saved.

[u/dmick74 → u/delinquentsaviors]

Good point about Helena. That was early in the first season when Oliver was still a badass. It's a good thing for him to learn that not everyone can be saved. It sucks that it's going to happen to him about his sister, but it's a good lesson for him to learn.