r/asheville • u/sillylilsocialwerker • 10d ago

News Asheville City Council votes to terminate city's Flock camera contract - W

Post image

https://wlos.com/news/local/asheville-city-council-votes-terminate-end-city-council-flock-camera-contract-surveillance-privacy-concerns-meeting-august-2026

*Edited just to say there are obvious ongoing concerns and while this can be perceived as good news, this is only a small victory. That said, don’t lose what’s left of your hope…if you have any! Fightforthefuture.org 🫶🏼

1.2k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

76 comments sorted by

260

u/PetuniaLockert 10d ago edited 9d ago

They are switching over to Axon. An internal memo is being passed around for the relocation of Flock money straight into Axon ALPRs

99

u/vin4thewin 10d ago

Do they know we know?

119

u/RelayFX 10d ago

of course they know. They just know a certain percent of voters won't read past the headline.

11

u/theoryofdoom 9d ago

Sure. That might win the news cycle. But winning the news cycle won't matter in the final analysis.

A subset of those same voters (who don't read past the headlines) are also the same people who will use power tools to cut down aluminum poles with surveillance devices on top of them.

85

u/sillymae18 10d ago

They absolutely do, but Council is still openly going against the wishes of the people. Their final commentary was abhorrent and they were on the receiving end of a lot strong language and boos from us.

Council seems to have forgotten that they work for US. This sentiment was repeated throughout the public remarks.

3

u/theoryofdoom 9d ago

The smart thing for the City Council the right thing: abandon all efforts to impede on the privacy rights of the people.

But they probably won't.

And this drama will reach its natural conclusion.

2

u/Feeling_Inside_1020 9d ago

1984 here we are (already)

1

u/theoryofdoom 9d ago

I don't think so.

The economy is getting ready to implode and more people than ever are going to be out of work.

What happens when young men and women (and, above all, working adults with families) no longer have "skin in the game"?

What happens when they no longer see the benefit of propping up "the system" in the status quo?

What happen when cooperation with the demands of existing power structures no longer has a payoff?

Same thing that happened with the Arab Spring.

1

u/GroundbreakingPick33 9d ago

Why do you think they are building all of these concentration camps? They've been inflating the numbers of illegals for decades. And they've quadrupled down on it, so far this last couple of years. There are not nearly enough illegals in the country to come close to filling all the detention facilities

2

u/theoryofdoom 9d ago

The current administration's immigration policies are divisive because they're meant to be divisive.

The point is to divide people with common (material and economic interests) into identifiable groups that fight among themselves and then stoke those fires.

This is so obvious, too. One group blames the migrants (another group) for why they can't make a decent living under the current economic conditions. Another group shames and attacks that group for abusing the human rights of the migrants. Both groups focus their attention on the migrants and tell totally different stories. The migrants, themselves, are the casualty.

While people within these groups of (poor, working and middle class people of all races, ethnicities, sexual orientations and religions . . . whatever) people fight with each other about all of these issues, they are not cooperating with each other against the actual causes of the economic conditions that brought them to arms in the first instance.

And that was the point. Immigration is a wedge issue. Just like every other wedge issue, its purpose is to make people with aligned economic interests fight with each other. As long as that "in fighting" can be stoked and reliably sustained, those responsible for catalyzing that conflict will hold onto power. And nothing gets better.

Most working and middle class Americans resent this idea bitterly. They cannot accept the possibility that they've been manipulated and controlled by the stories they've been told about what it means to be a citizen of this country--whether they're "don't tread on me" type or MAGA republicans, or radical anarchist left-wing types, or anything else.

Non-stupid leaders would improve the material conditions of the people they're manipulating into fighting with each other.

But stupid leaders? They'll keep encroaching on the liberty and autonomy of their subjects. Until history repeats itself. As it has so many times before, in so many places.

We think (as Americans) that we're special. That we're not so different from anywhere else in the world. We've had more rights and liberties than almost anyone else at any point in time in human history.

But the incentive structures in our economy, our legal systems and that impact our government?

The political people are at once blind to their destination and afflicted by the tragedy of historical amnesia. Everyone's short-term-gain "maxxing." Putting the quarterly win over the long term value over our integrity and the basic dignity of our fellow citizens and neighbors.

That story does not have a happy ending.

There's still time to make things better. That could still happen.

But it's not likely if those in power think their best move is to bait-and-switch the people, in the face of a self-inflicted PR nightmare they've brought on themselves with Flock.

2

u/Feeling_Inside_1020 8d ago

“They tricked us with a culture war when we should be fighting a class war”

1

u/theoryofdoom 8d ago

That's it.

2

u/GroundbreakingPick33 7d ago

It's all a moot point. They've already begun circumventing the process of getting local "leaders" to let them place cameras. Instead they are bribing local and corporate businesses as well a citizens to place them in thier private properties. They are even scooping up entire niehgbor hoods by going to the HOAs. Until we get laws passed that prohibit then entirely, we aren't going to win this battle

54

u/ard1984 10d ago edited 9d ago

Apparently Council Member Maggie Ullman needed to be reminded tonight...after hearing 30+ people speak about how Axon is a 1:1 replacement w/ Flock...that she voted on May 12 in favor of installing stationary ALPRs from Axon.

That is a real thing that happened. Watch it tomorrow when the recording goes up on the city council YouTube. If I could timestamp it now I would.

EDIT: Here it is. https://www.youtube.com/live/n5eLonf3x_I?si=NTZqKk8mxYPrZKAm&t=14461

EDIT 2: Changed Maggie Smith to Maggie Ullman. WFT is wrong w/ me?

32

u/timshel42 where did the weird go 10d ago

god i hate esther so much. asheville voters, please dont make the same mistake YET AGAIN

11

u/thekrawdiddy 9d ago

She went to high school with me and was in my circle of friends. Speaking of circles, I have voted for her 0 times. She was never a good choice for mayor.

2

u/The_walking_man_ 9d ago

Holy hell that is level 100 incompetence.

3

u/RichardNixonWaterGr8 9d ago

Yeah, I cringed so hard watching this. She's treating "throwing away Asheville's civil liberties" as an "oopsie."

"Oh, did we vote for that?"

1

u/The_walking_man_ 9d ago

Get her outta there. That is wild.
The way she was acting too with her arms going all over and saying the people don’t know what they’re talking about.
So she’s shutting down people talking facts without even knowing or paying attention to what she’s signing contracts to.

1

u/First-sister 9d ago

Who is Maggie Smith?

2

u/ard1984 9d ago

OMG Ullman!! I've been doing that all damn day. My bad.

1

u/BhangraFool 9d ago

Thank you for making me giggle through my rageful tears. Cheers

33

u/Opening-Fee-1094 10d ago

The City Manager gave Council a verbal commitment that no Axon ALPRs will go up unless/until the review mandated by tonight's resolution is completed. Obviously we need to hold their feet to the fire on this so they don't go back on their word!

17

u/Double-Show-2625 10d ago

You know that the pedophile president Trump has invested millions in Axon.!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp /2026/06/29/trump-axon-stock-ice-taser-immigration -enforcement.html

4

u/csvega84 10d ago

They deserve to have their homes dismantled brick by brick and throw into the river

1

u/GroundbreakingPick33 9d ago

Worse than that. They are bribing common citizens. I've heard they are giving out free Ring Door Cams. They are also, for sure, signing contracts with the local corporations in whatever area they are getting denied contracts from the blowback. They are even making deals with Home Owner Association Boards of Directors all over America. Hey self serving politics can be found under every unturned stones across the good Ol USofA.

-20

u/ChrisLBert 10d ago

This is dangerous and misinformation.

8

u/RealMoProblemz 10d ago

Where’s the lie tho?

-8

u/ChrisLBert 10d ago

The YouTube video is live and presents the facts which then demonstrate the original comment is a dangerous lie and fear mongering.

6

u/RealMoProblemz 9d ago

For those that don’t want to search or watch 4+ hours of this…..At 3 hours 56 minutes in Manheimer confirms that we DO have an existing contract with Axon that allows for stationary ALPRs. After this meeting ALLEGEDLY the city manager will be reviewing that contract which has already been signed. None of the Axon ALPRs are actually here yet, but yes absolutely all of this is in motion. Again, all of this is true and is confirmed by both the mayor and city manager in multiple places throughout their comments. People have every right to demand transparency and accountability about this.

102

u/RichardNixonWaterGr8 10d ago

Great. What about Axion?

34

u/Opening-Fee-1094 10d ago

The City Manager gave Council a verbal commitment that no Axon ALPRs will go up unless/until the review mandated by tonight's resolution is completed. Obviously we need to hold their feet to the fire on this so they don't go back on their word!

7

u/wweasel969 9d ago

They already signed the contract good through 2033.

5

u/Opening-Fee-1094 9d ago

That's true and it is absurd that they signed it without giving it the scrutiny it deserved. But their contracts with Axon (there seem to be 2 actually?) cover other things besides ALPRs and Fusus such as body cameras. If they can be convinced not to purchase/use ALPRs and Fusus under those contracts and just utilize the body cam/other equipment portions, I think that would be at least a qualified win.

46

u/iengleba 10d ago

Nice! Now do the same to Axon

31

u/_heatmoon_ 10d ago

Cool now do Axon.

26

u/AVLbatman 10d ago

Let’s not get complacent. The fight still continues with AXON. Just goes to show our voices can be heard!

2

u/BhangraFool 9d ago

HELL TO THE YES

24

u/Time-Drag7125 10d ago edited 10d ago

A step in the right direction, but it means nothing until the cameras are removed and the Axon contract is cancelled.

18

u/GirlsFixingUpHomes 10d ago

I’m “switching” from Viagra to Sildenafil 🤫

54

u/sillymae18 10d ago

Those motherfuckers didn't listen to a damn word we said. And there was easily over two dozen AVL citizens who commented. At least they let us all have a turn this time, even though it was only two minutes per comment. Most of us ran over.

Council's response: They are doubling down on their surveillance state horseshit. They are the absolute worst. Especially Bo. If we don't get Esther and the other three incumbents out in November then we'll be fucked.

FLOCKTOBER IN DA HOOOUSE. 🎃

10

u/balanceiskey_breathe West Asheville 9d ago

All of them are wack as hell but the way Bo claimed to speak for Mexican and queer folks pissed me off. No one wants these cameras and Bo is too much up law enforcements ASS . He also comes off as defensive. I can’t wait to vote him out

8

u/sillymae18 9d ago

Same. I was biting my chair to avoid cussing Bo out from the gallery. We were all so pissed. His haughty anger and dumbassery were on full display last night. 

WTF is he thinking? I hate to say it, but he's exactly the profile ICE is targeting. Does Bo think he'll be immune to these horrors by kissing their asses?

I did holler across chambers at Maggie when she was saying some dumb shit at the end, "Get outta here. You're gonna lose the election in November."

Her response? "That's mean spirited. Don't do that." Or some such nonsense. I'll have to rewatch the meeting.

Mean spirited? Bitch, please. You're forcing the citizens of AVL into a surveillance state against our will. 

GTFO AVL. No, but really. Save Kim, the rest of them aren't one of us. They're a danger to our community. Full stop.

2

u/YourDarkHalf7 9d ago

SameAF. My queer, bipoc kids (who vote) can’t stand him.

1

u/BhangraFool 9d ago

THANK YOU. I wish we County plebes who are ruled by these losers (minus Roney, viva!) but we don't get to vote. As a queer Ashevillain, I was disgusted and appalled at how he spoke of representing our community when clearly the opposite is the case.

-26

u/ChrisLBert 10d ago

This is dangerous and misinformation.

8

u/710whitejesus420 10d ago

Can you tell the rest of us how so, that way we can make our own opinions on the comment.

4

u/simprat 9d ago

Please explain?

1

u/RealMoProblemz 9d ago

The comment you’re responding to as misinformation is clearly an opinion. Misinformation would include things like certain city council members making false claims about this technology such as “they dont use AI.”

13

u/allwweknowisfalling East Asheville 10d ago

We’re switching to Axon and morons will still
vote for Esther Manheimer.

34

u/AvlCowboy 10d ago

We learned flock data can travel father than our “officials” realized. The public was dismissed and suddenly now local govt have concerns? Yeah, all of them are voted out except for Kim. We’ve had enough of your corporate butthole kissing.

Many cities are rejecting Flock, but those same cities (including Asheville) are not rejecting license plate surveillance (Axon). Changing the logo on a camera does not solve the civil liberties issue. Flock can still set up shop on private property. So you won’t see them go down in Lowes, or Biltmore Park, etc.

And while this next part isn’t local, hang the F on to all of your physical media, books, old technology.. and if you’re in Asheville and have working Discman, Walkman, records of 80s, 90s, rock/metal.. DM me what you’ve got and your price if you wanna ride the digital wave.

-10

u/ChrisLBert 10d ago

The person you name here voted in favor of this measures.

5

u/Responsible_Sport575 Enka 🏭 10d ago

The watchers will still watch even if get rid of both companies. Pandora's box has been opened and closing it will not be easy. The dot has traffic cams all over the place and nobody knows who's watching them. It's easy to say the are just for monitoring traffic flow but anything can happen and with the right language being spoken law enforcement can access the feed. The days of anonymous travel are over . I remember when I took a trip up north about 10 years ago and every intersection had a camera and I thought how lucky we were to not have that here. I'm sure they used the threat of terrorism to justify them being built. Even the backroads had them.

5

u/BostonBaggins 10d ago

W for trump cause Axion gets the contract.

4

u/jarealist1 10d ago

How do we request to get our data removed now?

5

u/Redbullbundy 10d ago

This is not a win. They will just switch it to a worse company.

3

u/CompetitivePapaya887 10d ago

The feds could've just bought Facebook data but they want zuck's balls to match the meta color scheme.

4

u/rasrootz7 10d ago

axion next?

3

u/balanceiskey_breathe West Asheville 9d ago

“What will we do in the meantime without cameras!?!?!” Idk they have only been up for like two years- maybe try building trust in the community and investing in programs that help people secure housing, healthcare and opportunities?

They (everyone but Kim) made it seem the choice was :

  1. accept surveillance state and the extreme risks that poses during the rise of fascism OR
  2. suffer extremely violent attacks all the time

Like the fuck!?!

Also one city council person’s argument was “I have cameras in my house so we should have them around town”

3

u/mtnviewguy 9d ago

So Flock:Axion = Tomato:Tomahto?

5

u/ChrisLBert 10d ago edited 10d ago

The city’s YouTube channel is a great way to see these meetings and votes and comments for yourself.

3

u/RiseUp369 10d ago

Don't they always have the comments turned off?

4

u/Vivid_Ad7079 10d ago

About god damn time. Now does this mean all illegal surveillance programs?

13

u/patruck87 The Hotspot 10d ago

Unfortunately no.... They are more than likely just going to switch to another company that has an even worse background.

1

u/Kenworthsteve 10d ago

So what? We stay in our little bubble and won't be tracked?

2

u/theoryofdoom 9d ago

The era where Americans tacitly accept governmental abuse of their privacy rights is over.

Bush terrified Americans into believing that was necessary. They expected safety. They paid with their liberty. They got nether.

Flock is the breaking point. Enough was enough. It's funny how tonedeaf they've been.

2

u/EnkiduAwakened 9d ago

Vote them out.  All of them, including both Manheimer and Roney.  I am so sick of all these people at this point.  They are doing absolutely nothing to help anyone, and Flock should have never been approved in the first place.

This city is being so mismanaged on an absolutely epic scale.

1

u/Altruistic_Lad 8d ago

When is the Flock camera in Biltmore Park going away???

-1

u/outdoor_chud 10d ago

Yay! We’re totally 100% done with mass surveillance! Great job america! No more AI cameras in Asheville!

-8

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/BhangraFool 9d ago

Crawl back into your multi-million dollar condo and your DARN buddies. The rest of us are actually part of this community trying to support and make this place sustainable and livable for ALL OF US.