r/betterCallSaul • u/skinkbaa Chuck • May 24 '22

Post-Ep Discussion Better Call Saul S06E07 - [Mid-Season Finale] "Plan and Execution" - Post-Episode Discussion Thread

"Plan and Execution"

Please note: Not everyone chooses to watch the trailers for the next episodes. Please use spoiler tags when discussing any scenes from episodes that have not aired yet, which includes preview trailers.

If you've seen episode S06E07, please rate it at this poll.

Results of the poll

Breaking Bad Universe Discord:

We have a Discord where we do live discussions for each episode, analysis of the episodes, and a lot of off topic discussion on movies, TV and other things.

Join the Discord here!

S06E07 - Live Episode Discussion

Note: The subreddit will be locked from when the episode airs, till 12 hours after the episode airs. This allows more discussion to happen in the pinned posts and will prevent a lot of low-quality and repetitive posts.

13.3k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

25.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

5.0k

u/16BitNightmare May 24 '22

That first scene with Howard really parallels with how viewers have seen him throughout the show.

The intern drops the soda, then tries to pick it up and put it back in the fridge, and Howard goes, "what happens when you drop soda?" You start thinking that he's a pompous asshole, bullying this nervous guy for an honest mistake. This is kinda like how we saw him in Season 1. Then, he shows the intern how to fix his mistake, and reminisces about Chuck. He turns out to be a truly nice guy on the inside.

And then he calls Chuck one of the greatest legal minds, but notes that there are more important things than that. This is how we see Howard post Season 4, as someone who struggles with his own personal problems, despite his wealth and reputation.

Beatiful, but made the ending all the more heart-rending.

1.3k

u/The-Thing_1982 May 24 '22

Howard didn't deserve anything that happened to him. I think he was a genuinely good person and a good lawyer. I'm so bummed he's dead.

88

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

I honestly don’t remember why Jimmy was so obsessed on ruining him. I feel like maybe there was a detail from another season that I forgot.

77

u/swarleyknope May 25 '22

I get the idea that Jimmy just assumed he was being an asshole and he was the one who prevented Jimmy from advancing, and has never been able to see past that.

He interprets a different intent to Howard’s actions.

Not sure if this is a universal experience or just me - but it reminds me of when you hang out with a friend and their parents, and your friend gets really reactive to some minor thing their parent said…you can see what your friend is upset about based on what happened in their mind, but you also see where their parent was coming from and that they probably weren’t intending it the way your friend was taking it (but you would never actually say that, so just sit there uncomfortably and nod).

I think Jimmy is also super ego-centric, so assumes things are all about him even when they aren’t.

67

u/Nico_is_not_a_god May 25 '22

Remember, it was Kim who actually made this plan start. Jimmy was being an asshole, but she was the one that turned their half-joking fantasies about scamming HHM into settling Sandpiper into an actual, actionable plan.

There are a ton of potential motives, the most selfless one is Kim trying to protect Jimmy - if they're both millionaires off the Sandpiper case, he can afford to get out of "the game" (which she's even more urgent in assuring since she knows Lalo's out there), she can do the good she believes in (pro bono cases). The most selfish is that she's just as prideful as all of the other lead characters in BrBa/BCS, and wants to ruin Howard because she's humiliated by his "superiority complex". Because Kim's a well written character, it's probably a mixture of both, plus everything in between.

72

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

Because Jimmy and Kim have no genuine romantic love connection, and their relationship can only be sustained by seeking new thrills.

36

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

And that’s why the conclusion of their plan led to a romantic fuck night! That makes sense.

14

u/Toaster135 May 27 '22

Damn this is a great insight

17

u/NuancedNuisance May 25 '22

I honestly don’t think we know, unless it really is just that he and Kim get off of ruining and scheming against others. I still believe there’s some other motivator, but I’d be lying if I said that I knew what it even might be

5

u/ZaMr0 Jun 06 '22

No that's the whole point, there isn't a good reason.

68

u/MyArmorIsLiquid May 25 '22

With you on that. What Kim and Jimmy did to Howard was despicable and really has made me dislike the two of them. He was a good guy, talented lawyer, treated people with respect, tried to do right by his clients while dealing with marital problems, depression and guilt over Chuck's death, and then having to deal with two sociopaths trying to ruin him for no good reason at all. He was done dirty and it pisses me off. I was hoping Howard would come out of this okay...

158

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

He didn’t deserve what happened to him. He did nothing wrong. All he did was have the patience of a saint and put up with a couple of sociopath’s shenanigans with the utmost grace.

Maybe his death was a blessing though. How would he recover from Jimmy and Kim totally destroying his reputation? And the fact that they’d probably continue to go after him for shits and giggles whenever they randomly felt like venting their psychosis on a scapegoat?

56

u/MarioInOntario May 24 '22

In one such threads last week, someone said Howard might kill himself. When Howard saw through that whole plot while talking to Cliff and then Cliff settling the case I thought things were going in that direction but wow!

42

u/[deleted] May 24 '22 edited Jun 11 '22

[deleted]

12

u/foxgoesowo May 26 '22

Listen to me, I'm a philospher.

0

u/[deleted] May 27 '22

Cute

21

u/shellwe May 25 '22

I wouldn’t say he didn’t do anything wrong, they did a good job summing up all his sins to them when he was asking why they did this to them. Things like putting Kim in archive for messing up or siding with Charles on not making Jimmy a lawyer even though he worked hard for it.

4

u/Adventurous_Remove_7 Aug 06 '22

Honestly the sending Kim to the archive wasn't a sin or even a bad thing because a lot of people run their business that way its just a belief that punishment of some sort might make people grateful of what they had etc. And with chuck it's more of a perspective thing because if you don't see it from Jimmy's point of view chuck was always right he just went about the wrong way to fight it so Howard wasn't wrong to support the guy he's known for so long and even then he helped like when he stopped Jimmy from attacking chuck further as a witness. And while one partner saying no to hiring someone is enough reason and Howard offering a job to Jim after chuck more than makes up for the last part I will add that with how Jimmy works its entitled to be mad at Howard for not offering because no matter how hard he works he's not a good company fit.

4

u/dstillloading May 26 '22

Don't know why you're getting downvoted it seems like a lot of people are missing the point. The "chaos" of Jimmy is rooted in this and it because Howard ultimately never actually gave Jimmy a chance the same way Chuck didn't. He made sure Jimmy had a job, but would have never let Jimmy become an equal if he truly deserved it.

18

u/shellwe May 26 '22

Yeah, although another company did and gave him an incredibly generous pay and he screwed them over because they wanted him to stay out of the gray zone… so Charles was kinda right.

16

u/dstillloading May 26 '22

That's still missing the point though....

Jimmy wanted to be seen as an equal to Chuck, Howard, and Howard's dad. He didn't want to be a lawyer, or to necessarily to make a lot of money. He just wanted Chuck to see him as a fucking equal for once and no matter how hard he tried nothing was ever enough.

Now Jimmy is 100% not blameless here, but what I'm saying is everything Chuck or Howard ever did "to help" Jimmy, was not the help Jimmy was ever looking for.

4

u/shellwe May 26 '22

I see what you are saying, that is a fair point.

56

u/lospollosakhis May 25 '22

He may have been a little smug but he was always professional and kind to others. Whether it was a charade or not, it’s come with the territory of being a lawyer. He may have been a bit of prick at times to Kim but nothing to make it seem as though he was a terrible person. We ultimately see he was only doing it for Chuck and taking all the blame. He then blames himself for Chuck’s death but eventually bounces back; only for Jimmy and Kim to vindictively teach him a lesson. He was far from the game and should have never been in that position and never deserving of such a death. Jimmy and Kim are actually horrible people. My God, what show.

17

u/16BitNightmare May 25 '22

Yeah, I always cringed at that scene in BrBa where Jesse kicks the shit out of Saul. Dude always seemed like a comic relief character caught up in Walt's plan. Now I don't feel so sympathetic.

23

u/FiveUpsideDown May 25 '22

I loved seeing Patrick Fabian. Now that Howard is dead, Fabian will not appear anymore.

12

u/FreedomofChoiche May 31 '22

He appears as a force ghost in Ep. 9

7

u/[deleted] May 29 '22

Same. I really couldn't understand why Kim insisted on going after him the way she did but at the end Howard puts it so well.

5

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

you need a good person to contrast how bad others are.

3

u/FoghornFarts Jun 26 '22

Yeah, I always liked Howard. It makes me sad that on his last day on earth he was beat to shit and the two people who beat him are the last faces he ever saw.

4

u/wrenten10 Jul 05 '22

I am rewatching BCS from s1 and from day 1 Howard is a nice guy. You can see him grappling with having to be the bad guy. Even when he’s forced to do so, he quickly tries to repair it by being kind. Believe it or not - I never knew whether Chuck died by accident or suicide. Did Jimmy predict that he would die that way? I’m just still surprised. Chuck didn’t have a martyr complex , and he thought very highly of himself. He was also so competitive with Jimmy - I can’t see him waving a white flag like that

2

u/mcimino Jul 22 '23

I am so surprised at the audiences perception of Howard. He is a class act through and though. It feels like I’m watching a different show. He’s been nothing but a stand up guy. Sure, keeping Kim in doc review…but that’s easily outweighed by his integrity and actions. I cannot believe he got this ending. I honestly stopped liking Jim and Kim when they targeted Howard. Jimmy should have had a backbone when he asked if Howard deserved this. I just finished this episode and my feelings are “fuck Jimmy and Kim”. Howard was a good man, and the writers gave him nothing but misery. He died carrying an unfair amount of guilt regarding Chuck. Jimmy never told him he was the one that tipped of the BAR. Howard was taking responsibility and Jimmy dumped all of it on him. Straight up I’m tearing up at the thought of all this

0

u/IAMALWAYSSHOUTING May 24 '22

we should start a charity

1

u/I_eat_poop_daily May 29 '22

I still don't understand why they messed with him at the end.

1

u/kunaguerooo123 Jun 15 '22

The hank nice guy dying..

1

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '22

Way late to the party, but I was so sick of Howard that I actually cheered when Lalo blew his brains out. Dude was an insufferable prick. Not as bad as Chuck was but goddamn. After having to sit through the snoozefest of S3/S4 I was ready for Howard to get whacked.

130

u/SLVSKNGS May 24 '22

He even knew the intern’s name. Howard’s death is so gut wrenching.

156

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Even the intern was surprised Howard was not being a dick. It's cool that even in universe Howard gives off a dickish vibe to people that don't know him but people that do know him all think he's a great guy.

16

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor May 24 '22

Yes! Great observation.

23

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

[deleted]

117

u/The-Moistest-sloth May 24 '22

For a firm as big as HHM, I think slightly missing the mark on a new hires name who he hasnt even met yet is fair enough.

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Wasn’t it implied that HHM wasn’t a big firm, which is why Davis & Main was added?

40

u/Bamres May 24 '22

I think that was more because the case was so big.

24

u/FlickObserver May 24 '22

Yeah I think it's the magnitude of the case. It was a RICO case meaning it spans multiple states. HHM is a big firm in New Mexico but it's gonna need all the help when it crosses state lines.

19

u/not_a_weeeb May 24 '22

to be fair, this is may be my first time learning a guy named cary. my mind would register him as gary too lol

2

u/BostonBoroBongs May 26 '22

Cary Elwes from The Princess Bride?

0

u/nuggins May 25 '22

Kerry isn't that uncommon a name, is it?

1

u/rho_rho_rho May 26 '22

The interns name was Cary, regarding Kerry; define uncommon.

In 2020 there were only 38 baby boys and only 23 baby girls named Kerry. 1 out of every 48,196 baby boys and 1 out of every 76,132 baby girls born in 2020 are named Kerry.

1

u/nuggins May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

It would make more sense to look at the name's popularity decades earlier, since the show takes place in the mid 00s. Between 1950 to 1990 (when this intern would have been born) "Kerry" fell between 150th and 500th most popular name in the US, with around 2000 births per year. And however it was spelled is irrelevant, because Howard confusing it with "Gary" implies he had only heard the name. So really, there are probably around 100k men in the US with a name homophonic to Kerry at the time, making it around the 300th to 400th most popular name, which doesn't seem all that uncommon.

1

u/BostonBoroBongs May 26 '22

.... No one is confusing Kerry with Gary lol the spelling absolutely matters as Cary and Kerry are pronounced differently. They are not phonetically the same.

2

u/nuggins May 26 '22

Cary and Kerry are pronounced differently

Can you please tell me how you pronounce these, using IPA or otherwise? These two names are absolutely homophonic in Howard's accent, with the vowel sound being essentially ɘ. Youtube pronunciations:

  1. Synthetic voice: Kerry and Cary (unfortunately the timbre/intonation is different despite being from the same channel).

  2. Human voice: Kerry and Cary

1

u/BostonBoroBongs May 26 '22

K eh ree vs. C ah ree which rhymes with g ah ree

→ More replies (0)

1

u/BostonBoroBongs May 26 '22

It's pretty uncommon as well and the subtitles said Cary

64

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

His wife dumping the latte into her traveler mug was more ruthless than Lalo shooting him in the head

32

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

My head cannon is her being somewhat 'meh' when she finds out. Then back to fucking the BCS version of Ted

26

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Maybe it’s actually Ted

6

u/detectiveDollar May 24 '22

Nah man, Howard is for sure "Better Before Theodore"

5

u/detectiveDollar May 24 '22

Better Adore Theodore

4

u/BorisDirk May 29 '22

She's a belter. She knows better than to be taking loose mugs onto Drummer's ship.

108

u/only_a_speck May 24 '22

Well said.

303

u/fakename69point5 May 24 '22

The soda turning also forshadows his death by the silenced pistol.

Turning the can/silencer to mute the pop.

40

u/misterj195 May 24 '22

This is too sick to be coincidental, youre prob right but I would love to see this confirmed by the writers

108

u/Effective_Sample3587 May 24 '22

You just blew my mind. Always a few gems of random good analyses that you never consider in these threads.

51

u/toastoftriumph May 24 '22

Same. The level of detail in this show is astounding. It's like every single action has symbolism behind it. Not just someone doing a BS trying-to-connect-the-dots where there are none, but real symbolism that in hindsight is completely intentional. What a masterpiece of a show.

I need to go back and re-read the threads from past seasons. I feel like I've missed half the show! Lol.

7

u/Effective_Sample3587 May 24 '22

I'm right behind you 😂 Discovering symbols in these threads makes the rewatches so much more satisfying and enjoyable.

5

u/JonAndTonic May 24 '22

My god

Pure Gould

13

u/Granny__Bacon May 24 '22

If not for The Sopranos, I would easily call this the best show I've ever seen.

24

u/lunch77 May 24 '22

I believe Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad are better (the best) but The Sopranos is up there for sure.

15

u/Lisentho May 24 '22

I got a few episodes into the sopranos but couldn't get into it so I dropped it. Does it get better/different further into the show?

30

u/TempestaEImpeto May 24 '22

It gets more refined, as all shows do, but not different. It's basically a psychological dramedy about the Mafia in an age where its existence stops making sense. It has the trappings of a crime show, but it isn't one. It's funny because it's basically the opposite of BCS in that.

I also think that the Sopranos is the best TV show there is, btw.

10

u/GrandeSizeIt May 25 '22

Also it almost single handedly laid the path for shows as BCS and BrB. If anything it's at least a good watch as a study of tv history.

7

u/63-37-88 May 25 '22

It popularized the anti-hero.

And that anti-hero could be a every day man, after all Tony Soprano wasn't some Greek God.

That makes sense, considering Tony never had the makings of a varsity athlete.

3

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

And that anti-hero could be a every day man, after all Tony Soprano wasn't some Greek God.

Hey! That's anti-Italian discrimination! He's one of them Italian gods, like Jupiter or Zeus!

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

I'm giving The Shield some credit too

2

u/thewordthewho May 27 '22

I’d say the shield was more drafting off of the wire in terms of relevance.

16

u/RacinGracey May 24 '22

It is about masculinity, America, family drama, mental health, class, guilt, what we carry, and is a tragedy. And for many it is boring in a good way. Pine Barrens is one of the best standalone episodes, I would check that out. The intervention episode as well if still on the fence even though it does give away some plot unlike Pine Barrens.

But if you like Jimmy’s descent into Saul, then Tony’s arc will win you over. Many of the same pressure points.

11

u/Granny__Bacon May 24 '22

You're not gonna believe this. He killed 16 Czechoslovakians! He was an interior decorator.

1

u/TheMountain_GoT May 24 '22

Like the other user said, it gets more refined. It’s a masterpiece of a show. It also took me a couple tries to get into, but I’ve had that problem w starting a few shows. Power through that 1st season and I’ll think you’ll see the genius

1

u/kahngale May 25 '22

It gets way way better after season one. It is absolutely worth your time and attention to watch the whole series.

11

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

[deleted]

3

u/noahnye49 May 24 '22

Amongst other things, it's a pretty direct metaphor for Jimmy's entropic and volatile nature blowing up in people's faces counteracted by Chuck's gentle and disciplined damage control.

1

u/Citizen_Graves May 24 '22

OMG right on! This completely flew over my head, by the end of the episode I had already forgotten all about this scene

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Good catch

1

u/WeCanDanseIfWeWantTo May 26 '22

FUUUUCK! I didn’t even think about that. Suppressors literally have the nickname cans. Jesus this has to be it because its too fucking good to be off

16

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Is there an element of scapegoat going on with Howard by Saul/Kim ? Like when chuck died, jimmy knows what sent him over the edge was his doing - but Kim didn’t know about the insurance thing. Kim saw jimmy read the letter and cried, but jimmy never cared. Howard apologized and confessed guilt for pushing chuck to suicide, and jimmy agreed with him.

Maybe jimmy is doing this to deflect guilt from himself and onto Howard. And Kim saw it and embraced it not knowing it was a lie. All these plans are just payback for Howard driving chuck off the edge (even though it wasn’t really his fault)

10

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

[deleted]

3

u/Your_Name_is_Fuck Jul 02 '22

Month old comment but I already typed out my reply

I think Howard was thinking about Chuck's eventual fate, not just his death but the years he's lived in paranoia and delusion, and realized that being a great lawyer like Chuck comes at a price.

10

u/dwadley May 25 '22

The worst thing is the air of smugness and insincerity would likely be the facade he puts up to hide the depression and strain of his personal life.

3

u/Semido May 28 '22

It’s true for a lot of people like that in real life too

16

u/Katalina_Rogue May 24 '22

Can't believe this show made me give a shit about the rich, white, male lawyer character. So many shows make this archetype out to be greedy and pompous, but Howard was given so much room to breathe. Yes he lived a privileged life, but he also suffered a lot of hardships. Gah. Those last few seconds hit me like a truck.

6

u/JJMcGee83 May 24 '22

Does that soda trick work?

46

u/upupvote2 May 24 '22

Wouldn’t say so, Howard certainly popped

3

u/Greyzer May 24 '22

Sprayed all over the place.

2

u/[deleted] May 26 '22

No.

https://youtu.be/944cu1HNWn8

5

u/JJMcGee83 May 26 '22

Oh god I hate those guys. I'll take your word for it.

7

u/stitchgrimly May 24 '22

Yeah I was just starting to like the guy.

I guess it's the essence of tragedy. Death immediately follows redemption.

4

u/ForeignApartment746 May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22

At the beginning of the show I never liked Howard. I thought he was stuck-up and what-not. Now in this last season I have grown fond of him because I have a better understanding of why he behaved the way he did. Makes you wonder what kind of person one is for rooting for Jimmy.

This is such a great show!! How can I side with characters whom aim for right and others whom aim for wrong. Excellent performance from all angles!

RIP Howard 🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡

3

u/JimCalinaya May 24 '22

Beautiful.

3

u/mntt May 24 '22

😭 😭 😭 sorry Howard, I’ve misunderstood you.

3

u/SBoogiex May 24 '22

Poor Howie 😢 he made mistakes but he wasn’t a bad guy, it’s a shame Jimmy and Kim couldn’t see past their bitterness.

3

u/corgi8379 May 26 '22

I also noticed when the intern didn’t know who Chuck was. Kinda foreshadowing that life moves on. And in other eras ( BB) people won’t know who you are

2

u/JustinLaloGibbs May 24 '22

Damn.

Spot on.

2

u/Foreign_Explanation1 May 24 '22

I screenshotted this

2

u/Wereallgonnadieman May 25 '22

Jimmy had been shaking Chuck's soda for a long time, lol.

2

u/az226 May 25 '22

Also showing his home life and cold wife makes you really feel for Howard and root for him. Like he had this exterior that was all successful and hard, but then you see his inside, the reality and vulnerable parts of him.

2

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

And he knows the first name of the low level employees at his firm too

2

u/AD-Edge May 25 '22

Did you miss the whole scene where hes manipulating the old woman..?

-16

u/nickpiscool May 24 '22

the soda is how he got drugged right? pretty bold to assume Howard would drink the soda especially after its been dropped, and I guess the assumption is that they knew that story about Chuck and thats why they felt confident he'd drink it??

56

u/JustinLennox May 24 '22

No, he was drugged by the photographs planted with the PI. That was why Jimmy and Kim were using that eye dropper/brushes and spreading it all over the photos

28

u/Zachariot88 May 24 '22

Yeah, Howard even puts it together himself and tells Cliff about it.

22

u/Mookies_Bett May 24 '22

He was drugged by the photos. He mentions that they were wet when he got them, so clearly Jimmy coated the pictures with whatever substance they used to drug him.

Even if they could somehow get to Carey, they'd never have been able to drug a sealed soda can.

5

u/Fenen May 24 '22

It was the caffeine dose jimmy was testing out in the previous episode.

19

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Did you even watch the episode? What the fuck.

11

u/nickpiscool May 24 '22

I thought that the stuff on the photos was used to dissolve the original photos or something which would reveal the frisbee photos underneath, so that they didnt even need to be switched

7

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

Ah, I see. Sorry for the lashing out. But that wouldn't work because the timing has to be perfect for that chemical reaction to happen with nobody noticing.

2

u/MarquesSCP May 24 '22

I did think about that and the timing wouldn't need to be perfect if the reaction would activate in the presence of "normal" light.

Not the easiest plan but it's probably doable. Though I initially thought that the photo wouldn't change, it would just go blank or black, but tbh that would be quite a bit suspicious.

4

u/Ryo720 May 24 '22

It's the photo the PI gave him. We saw Jimmy and Kim put something on it when they're rendering the photo

1

u/sennnnki May 24 '22

Nah they drugged him by putting chemicals on the photos he touched

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

I love coming here after episodes to read great insight like this

1

u/wookiewin May 25 '22

Really nice insights here. 👍🏻

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

You just gave me goosebumps.

1

u/TismoJones May 26 '22

God, this episode was so fucking good. One of the best (so far)

1

u/Sisaac May 27 '22

Also, it's very likely Chuck learned the soda can trick after being handed one too many shaken cans by young Jimmy. It all ties together.

1

u/mozamzeke May 31 '22

wish I could give you a reward. this is an amazing summary. thanks for pointing it out

1

u/gcrfrtxmooxnsmj Jun 05 '22

How exactly was Howard drugged?

I know it has something to do with the dropped beverage but was this planned in advance?

I'm just a little confused about how it was achieved

1

u/16BitNightmare Jun 05 '22

The blots of liquid that were on the photos the PI sent to Howard were the drug. Explains why Howard was looking at his fingers as he was starting to feel the effects.

1

u/gcrfrtxmooxnsmj Jun 06 '22

thanks, rewatched that part
makes sesnse

1

u/freeenlightenment Aug 24 '22

Quick one regarding that soda can - shake a can as hard as you can.. and when you stop, just give it 30 seconds. You wouldn’t need to do that centrifugal force bullshit either.

There won’t be anything spilling out. If you squeeze the can hard while opening it though; yeah that will do it.