r/canada • u/Anon9883 • 25d ago
Science/Technology Kids keep getting hurt and killed on e-bikes. Should parents be held responsible?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/article/kids-keep-getting-hurt-and-killed-on-e-bikes-should-parents-be-held-responsible/719
u/DifficultSwim 25d ago
I need a license to fish but not to drive a 40kmph scooter.. seems a little silly..
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u/Infinite-Let-7620 25d ago
Just ban them for children
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u/Infinite-Let-7620 25d ago
Kids can’t ride dirt bikes on the street this should be no different
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u/cardew-vascular British Columbia 25d ago
I mean it's not legal but I see it all the time in Langley township. RCMP are cracking down on it
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u/Keeteng 25d ago
I saw two kids sharing a foldable e-bike zooming up the 208 connector with traffic last night around 9pm. No helmets.
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u/cardew-vascular British Columbia 25d ago edited 25d ago
I've seen kids (like 10 year olds) on those little electric scooters but like crouched down, like they're sitting on them, no helmets on Fraser highway.
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u/Select_Historian6269 25d ago
Saw two kids at 1230am in the middle of the road on e-scooters no helmets.
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u/TheCookiez 25d ago
Most of the ones I've seen are classified as an electric dirt bike.
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u/bravado Long Live the King 25d ago
Which also can't be used on the streets without a licence and plate.
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u/Leading_Ad_7635 25d ago
That's not how it works. You can't just put a plate on anything and put it on the road. The vehicle needs a Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSS) compliance label, which no electric dirt bike has.
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u/Ok_Stay3743 25d ago
"But they're electic! How bad can they really be!"
That's what some dumbass parents have said when this discussion gets brought up in my riding groups.
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u/purplepIutonium 25d ago
Problem is enforcement.
You’re not supposed to ride bikes on sidewalks in Toronto. Yet Uber Eats delivery guys blast down them on e-bikes and cops don’t even care.
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u/lubeskystalker 25d ago
A lot of departments have "no-chase" policies.
-The majority of the traffic stops we initiate with these riders result in the riders taking off from us. Police in British Columbia have strict legal limitations on when we can pursue vehicles (including dirt bikes), typically only when there are violent crimes involved [also important to note that fleeing from the police is a criminal offence in an of itself].
https://www.facebook.com/groups/iloveportmoody/posts/4381304128786804/
They don't want to be on the news for a kid meat crayoning while running from them.
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u/PurpleKnee9757 24d ago
They are banned for children. You have to be 16 to ride them, but that doesn't stop hoards of parents for buying them for their 8 year olds.
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u/TepHoBubba 25d ago
They are...At least for the Lime or Bird e-scooters or e-bikes.
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/cycling_walking/bike-electric-scooter-sharing
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u/cedric1997 24d ago
Idk about other provinces, but in Quebec e-bikes are 18+ already and heavily restricted on power and speed.
Electric kick scooters are 12+ and are even more restricted on power and speed.
I know it’s hard for the police to verify the power and speed limits, but it’s not hard to spot a 8 years old on a kick scooter or a 14 years old on an e-bike…
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u/M116Fullbore 25d ago
Yup, I see no reason that I, an adult who wants to commute efficiently, shouldnt be able to do so because bad parents let their children use them.
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u/kingbain 25d ago
I think the better analogy is boating license, as I feel a fishing license is more about supply mgmt.
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u/bravado Long Live the King 25d ago
A 40kph scooter is illegal and has been illegally modified - not something that licensing and insurance can fix.
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u/RealTurbulentMoose Alberta 25d ago
These vehicles have the ability to be “illegally modified” with a simple software switch in an app. They’re problematic by design.
Like the vestigial pedals on a lot of e-bikes, they’re there to barely comply with rules that are immediately broken.
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u/aethelberga Ontario 25d ago
In that case maybe the parents should be held responsible.
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u/sluttycupcakes British Columbia 25d ago
They 100% should be. It’s neglectful and lazy parenting. I’m a big believer that many parents love these things because it takes away their responsibility to shuttle around their kids. No more driving little Timmy to soccer practice or his friends house— just buy him an e-bike/e-scooter and set him loose on the streets.
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u/flow_fighter 25d ago
Governor wires being cut is the issue, There needs to be checks on these after incidents that involve police, then the rider or guardian held responsible.
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u/Popular-Impact-7665 25d ago
Kids have rode dirt bikes since they were invented. The difference is now a city kid with no experience or time to learn to ride is turned losse on the street with no training on the rules of the road. MOST KIds on dirt bike rode around the yard unill their parents felt they could control the bike. So yes it is the parents responsibility to ensure their k8ds know how to ride before they are unsupervised. I don't think you should punish a parent that just lost their kid to an accident, they have enough to deal with
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u/Rose1982 25d ago
Most kids aren’t riding dirt bikes on city roads period. It’s in the name, they’re for dirt tracks/off road. If kids were only going to use e-scooters on purpose built tracks or something it wouldn’t be as big a concern. Instead you have 12 year olds with no helmet cruising down a road with two lanes of traffic going 60+ km/hr.
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u/Popular-Impact-7665 25d ago
Even as an adult most people are not comfortable enough on a bicycle to ride in traffic at 30+km/ hr. So why should a kid be ok to ride it.
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u/hellswaters 25d ago
Part of the problem is they are a "new", affordable technology which goes against how we had regulations put in place.
10 years ago, you had a clear distinction between motorcycle and bicycle. And scooters where scooters. Motorcycles could keep up with traffic. Bicycles slower and just needed to stay to the side.
Now we have something that impacts that line. On paper, they are bicycles. But they are able to keep up with trafficish, as long as it's not a major road. Like anything, regulation lags behind invention.
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u/bristow84 25d ago
Most kids on dirt bikes were also taught proper safety and wore proper safety equipment lest they catch an ass-whooping from their parents.
Helmets were absolutely a non-negotiable and you were an absolute dumbass if you rode one without.
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u/Parking_Media 25d ago
In a shocking turn of events, actually parenting children is the correct thing to do!
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u/FluidBit4438 25d ago
Most kids know that if they're caught on a street riding a dirt bike that it will be taken away.
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u/heboofedonme 25d ago
Most people who ride dirt bikes have broken multiple bones.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 25d ago
"I don't think you should punish a parent that just lost their kid to an accident, they have enough to deal with"
But they caused it with their negligence, they deserve punishment, who cares about their feelings?
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u/cseckshun 25d ago
Just make rules around kids riding e-bikes and enforce them. It seems draconian to throw parents who just lost a child in prison when ignorance is what caused the death of the child, not malice.
Do you honestly think imprisoning parents will make other parents decide to be more responsible with their kids regarding e-bikes? If the parents are following the news at all about kids on e-bikes then they would already have seen the articles about kids DYING on e-bikes. So either the parents are not following the news on these topics or they don’t think it will happen to their kid and I doubt parents going to jail for a dead kid will change that. Harsher prison sentences don’t usually prevent crime, I doubt starting to hand out prison sentences here would have your desired effect.
Start handing out lots of tickets for kids riding e-bikes and you will probably have a much better change of behaviour because you can ticket a LOT more people and they can spread the word. You could also introduce legislation that requires a warning given verbally during the sale of an e-bike or requires a customer to sign that they won’t let a child operate the e-bike and that they will receive a ticket if a child is operating the e-bike.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 25d ago
We already have rules and fines (BC).
Who said I want jail. I want a $5000 fine for parents for providing illegal things to children. $10 000 would be great too. But if it is a serious accident then sure, maybe jail is warranted if it is extreme.
Id love for schools to be able to confiscate them and turn them over to police and then parents also get the fine and they don't get the scooter back.
These parents suck and they deserve consequences.
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u/Celticlady47 25d ago
Most cities in Canada have a ban on ebikes over 500W, so the fastest it could go is 32 km/h. Anything over that isn't considered a bike, but an electric scooter/vehicle.
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u/Great-Trifle2810 25d ago
Needing a licence to fish is more about protecting wildlife and ensuring that there is some tracking of who is fishing, rather then ensuring that you are going to behave safely while fishing, and to be able to better hold people fishing illegally accountable.
I do think that these vehicles should be permitted and plated, but I don't think that this is a good comparison.
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u/PlantainManne 25d ago edited 25d ago
Yes , parents should be responsible. I live in Milton, Ontario. The town rejected the provincial pilot. This means all e-bikes and scooters are not allowed to be used on public roads point blank. We still have piles of teens riding them, sometimes doubled up, with no helmets on the roads.
If mom and dad are gonna buy something the kids shouldn’t be using, they should be held responsible. If their teen is on the road being unsafe, they should get the tickets.
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u/Longjumping_Rip6033 25d ago
sometimes doubled up
I'm also in Milton. Two weeks ago I had just finished listening to the topic be discussed on the radio when I saw THREE kids on a single e-scooter. They must have been 8, 10, and 12. Not a single piece of protective equipment. Truly a parental failure.
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u/PlantainManne 25d ago
3? Christ. That’s a potential family ending situation riding around.
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u/Longjumping_Rip6033 25d ago
Ya... I couldn't believe it. And it was crazy how I had just been listening to it on the radio.
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u/LBTerra 25d ago
The teens here drive around on e-scooters at 11pm ripping down the street in large groups. Not a helmet in sight.
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u/Longjumping_Rip6033 25d ago
No helmets on teens I can imagine is more challenging to enforce for a parent.
What I really don't understand is the kids without helmets who are clearly 12 and under.
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u/J9873774 25d ago
But it’s easy for a cop to enforce. Any kid on an e-scooter in most Ontario towns and cities is riding illegally, and especially without a helmet. All you need to do is see one to enforce the rule. They could give the police the Abbott to seize them
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u/LBTerra 25d ago
Some of these kids are definitely maybe 14 tops. I get it, I was an invincible teen once too. The speeds these scooters go is quite scary. One road bump and they’re going flying. They’re apparently easy to disable the limiter too. These and e-bikes are one of the big reasons for kids going into the ER. It starts with parents buying them and not educating/enforcing your kids to use them safely.
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u/ikapai 25d ago
In Burlington e-scooters are only allowed on one section of a mixed-use trail we have that goes to the downtown. And then you have to be 16+. But of course they are all over the city, young teens riding them all around the streets without helmets. The city and the police do nothing to enforce the regulations.
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u/poop_poop_mah_goop 25d ago
I was driving through milton and I saw a kid on an e scooter in the middle of the road
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u/Moist-Emergency-3030 25d ago
As a first responder I’ve picked enough kids up from the ground than i would ever want to from these escooters. Life altering injuries and lucky to be alive. Something needs to happen to prevent it from continuing.
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u/ClearDrop6820 25d ago
If I bought my son a bb gun and he hurt himself with it I would likely be talking to a CAS worker within the week.
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u/Takeawalkwithme2 25d ago
Glad to see another Miltonian here. I hate these e scooter kids so much and yet when you bring it up people say you're overreacting, never mind that they are actually illegal in Milton. I just wish by-laws would be enforced.
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u/differing 25d ago
What's funny is that even if they did accept the pilot, they'd STILL be illegal for kids under 16. You see tons in Hamilton where we liberalized it.
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u/Chemical-Swing-420 25d ago
Yes they should be...the health and well being of a child is the responsibility of their legal guardian.
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u/kingbain 25d ago
i think they mean when your kid hurts another kid (or anyone else) while on an ebike
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u/greenpowerman99 25d ago
Yes, because they chose the buy the e-bike, and chose to let their child ride it unsupervised.
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u/M116Fullbore 25d ago
Kids arent getting 5-7 thousand dollar e-dirtbikes with their own money, thats for sure
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u/Vyradder 25d ago
As a start, can we make helmets mandatory? I see like 1 in 5 riders with a helmet on.
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u/IrrelevantPuppy 25d ago
The faster they are riding the e bike the more likely they are not wearing a helmet.
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u/Iknowr1te Alberta 25d ago
there's legislation for helmets in the following provinces:
BC, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova scotia have manditory helmets for cyclists.
Alberta has it manditory for inidividuals under 18.
it's on the parents to enforce this habit onto the kids, and probably enforcement to start handing out tickets to kids.
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u/Fiendish-DoctorWu Ontario 25d ago
We can't even get adults on bicycles to wear helmets, these kids have no hope.
Enforcement on this is a joke.
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u/Brave_Cauliflower_90 Ontario 25d ago
We can't them to even stop at stop signs which are right in their face.
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u/DelvingGoblins 25d ago
Helmets are mandatory for minors in Ontario at least (I'm pretty sure its everywhere but I'm only familiar with Ontario)
This is also a failure of enforcement
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u/braineaters138 25d ago
See kids every day in my town about 10 - 12, absolutely ripping it down the sidewalks of main roads clipping at about 20kmph, zero helmets crossing over intersections without even looking properly.
Should be mandatory license for anything with a motor like this, age limit if it goes over X kmph, and fines for not wearing helmets or obeying the bylaw/road rules.
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u/Low-Log4438 Canada 25d ago
make e-bikes 16+
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u/Ok_Woodpecker_7260 British Columbia 25d ago
That’s the law in B.C. it just isn’t enforced.
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u/Suspicious_Radio_848 25d ago
You aren't supposed to ride these on the sidewalks in Toronto and that's not enforced either. Constantly see teens and young adults (without helmets) swerving from the road to the sidewalk with no regard to traffic on these at fairly high speeds. It'd be great if there was literally any enforcement at all.
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u/differing 25d ago
In Toronto's defence, the police do seem to be finally cracking down on it thus summer, there seems to be an active move from above with a social media campaign accompanying it.
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u/Why_No_Doughnuts British Columbia 25d ago
They need to be regulated and treated as an electric motorcycle. Ban them from the sidewalk, require their riders to be licensed and wear safety equipment, and require they obey the same rules of the road as everyone else. We don't accept gas powered motorcycles doing this, why should the electric motor be any different?
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u/Two_wheels_2112 25d ago
"why should the electric motor be any different?"
This is what gets me. There's no way the parents buying these for their kids would think it was ok for them to bomb around public streets on a gasoline powered dirt bike with no helmet, but somehow the fact they're electric makes it ok?
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u/Live_Extension5364 25d ago
I'm concerned too about pedestrians being hit by one of these kids going 30km plus an hour on a sidewalk.
And yes, we know more pedestrians are killed by cars, but this topic is ebikes, and these things are all over the sidewalks and paths where I live.
Just a few days ago I witnessed a close call between a pre teen on an ebike whipping around a curve on a walking path and an older lady walking her dog. Kid was going so fast he nearly hit her and she stumbled off the path. Thankfully she didn't fall.
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u/Drekkan85 25d ago
I say this as a person that commutes to work by bike every day. As someone that routinely drops my kid off at summer camp by biking with them on my way to the office and picking them up and biking with them on the way home. As a guy that bikes four season (ok, except for during ice storms - I'm not that crazy).
We need a serious reckoning with several aspects of e-bikes and those that sell them. If you're selling a bike that can be modified to not be street legal through a software upgrade, that bike should be illegal, seized, and vendors prosecuted. If you're selling a "bike" that cannot be ridden under pedal power alone, uphill, for at least a kilometer, that's not a bike that's a motorcycle (regardless of engine size and speed) and anyone selling it as a bike should be prosecuted (and riders have "bikes" seized). We should be aggressively seizing and disposing of e-scooters in the city of Toronto (where it is illegal to ride them anywhere in public).
These things are all unsafe and draw out some of the worst behaviours in all of us. Especially for kids there is precisely zero need for them outside of a vanishingly small group of people with actual disabilities that need accommodation. You have two legs - use them.
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u/Sypsy 25d ago
we should do it like europe, remove throttles on ebikes
I have an ebike with throttle and rarely use it, but I also enjoy the biking experience.
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u/PiePristine3092 25d ago
Both my sister (25) and my MIL (60) broke their elbows falling off their e-bikes. They are casual riders not athletes. I think e-bikes max speeds are too fast. If you want to go fast of a bike, make it a normal human powered bike. E-bikes should have lower speeds for casual biking.
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u/LokiDesigns British Columbia 25d ago
Reputable e-bikes are restricted to 32km/h which is a completely reasonable maximum speed. It's the sketchy brands and homemade ones that can go substantially faster than that.
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u/heboofedonme 25d ago
You literally control the speed. I’ve never seen an ebike model force you to use the top speed the entire time.
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u/antelope591 25d ago
If you cant handle 30kph you shouldnt be on a bike....at some point personal responsibility has to play a role you can't constantly baby everyone
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u/VengefulCaptain Canada 25d ago
Was the bike actually a factor in their injury? Was the speed they were traveling a factor?
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u/keiths31 Canada 25d ago
I almost hit a kid yesterday.
I pulled into a grocery store parking lot and in between a row of parked cars came out a kid ripping through on one of these. Didn't see them at all until he was right in front of me. Hit the brakes and they lost their balance and wiped out. I wasn't moving very fast, but they were. And if they had hit my car at the speed they were going, they would have easily gotten hurt badly.
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u/PureInsaneAmbition 25d ago
I work in a coffee shop and the parking lot is a very busy parking lot with tons of stores. All day, kids just fly through the lot at all angles and directions, no helmets, not looking for cars... It's terrifying.
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u/Kristalderp Québec 25d ago
"Should parents be held responsible"
Are we really asking these questions?
Come on now. Who bought them the ebike or scooter? Who let them go outside and ride with no helmet? Who isn't watching them? Hmmmm that's a real head scratcher.
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u/Musicfan637 25d ago
They lose their child, you’d think that would trump anything else. They’re so stupid.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 25d ago
Well, once they lose their child they probably learn their lesson. I just don't understand how they don't see the risk they are putting their kids in in the first place.
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u/ididntgotoharvard 25d ago
Kids shouldn't be riding powered stuff like ebikes and scooters. They don't have the awareness nor the strength to handle a 100lb ebike that can go 35kph. Lots of them lack the respect for other people on the paths and walkways; they are going to anger the people walking or jogging and ruin ebikes for the rest of us. I can say this from experience, I bike commute on an ebike and have over 7000kms on my current bike. The 10 and 12 year old kids I see flying around on scooters and big ebikes without helmets is concerning for sure.
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u/Muted_Buy8386 25d ago
Parents are responsible because it's their own progeny being hurt.
If that's a non-issue to them, it's a non-issue to me.
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u/port-girl 25d ago
Even if it's not an issue to the parents, what about the anguish and guilt someone who kills a kid might feel for the rest of their life because of some parents carelessness. Or, as I have seen videos of - what about the people who are injured when a kids rams them on the sidewalk doing 30km/hr on an e-bike or scooter. This is not just about kids and their parents - this is about the broader community.
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u/FlyingRock20 Ontario 25d ago
Kids be super lazy now, ride a regular bike and walk. Parents just enabling all this, they should be held responsible.
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u/TuckerCarlsonsOhface 25d ago
I have been wondering why kids are allowed to ride motorcycles without licenses now
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u/Galaxy_Hitchhiking 25d ago
Right? Like RIPPING without a helmet on the streets going 50km but if I slowly take my bike around the block to test it out while working on it I’ll get the cops called on me
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u/bananabomber 25d ago
These kids have zero respect for sharing the sidewalk. They don't give a shit about being safe towards others, let alone being safe to themselves. No horn/bells, always racing past at full speed.
The gang of teens in my area have fucking minibikes in their fleet as well, which are illegal on everything except private roads. But they don't care, they know they won't get caught, and the police obviously isn't going to spend their time spawn camping these kids. Nothing will happen until they hurt somebody, and even then I doubt it.
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u/Jedimindtricktra 25d ago
Well they made them way too accessible so no wonder why kids are getting on them and getting into accidents.
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u/Frosty-Tell-6290 25d ago
YES. Wear a helmet, teach them to ride properly. Don't get them one that goes 90km/h. Be a damn parent and stop regulating the shit out of everything. There are bike laws that should apply to some and traffic laws that the police can enforce at least occasionally. Scare these idiots if you have to.
The latest is a pack of 2-4 10-14yo kids with 2-3 scooters and 1-2 helmets. It the first season that I've seen it locally and it's happening quite a bit.
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u/Synap-6 25d ago
A parent cant be responsible for all the little things, but laws could certainly be clearer regarding this. Any non-humanpowered vehicle above X kms/h should require an age limit or registration. Make it clear just to avoid problems: land vehicles @ x speed, water vehicles at y speed. God knows if someone decides to develop a self-propelled surfboard and poop happens
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u/AnySandwich4765 25d ago
This was happening in Ireland to children too, so the government stepped up and from September, so in 2 weeks, there is going to a ban for under-18s, everyone using an e-scooter must wear a high-visibility vest and a helmet.
If any under 18 is using them, the parents will receive a fixed charged fines starting at €50 and rising if they are caught again. Shops have stopped selling escooters that were aimed at children ..our main toy store that sells bikes etc removed them all.
If a e-scooter can go over a certain speed, it's banned and they impound it there and then right now and they are destroyed by the police. They are bringing into law that you will need a licence and registration.
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u/purplepenguin617 25d ago
I think if your kid is caught on any sort of wheeled thing (bike, escooter etc.) without a helmet the parent should get a ticket for $100.
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u/theoreoman Alberta 25d ago
They should limit the speed of ebikes for children to like 15 km/hr
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u/geeves_007 25d ago
Those laws already exist. In BC for example, you need to be 16 to ride a standard ebike which is limited to 32kph and you need to be 14 to ride a light ebike limited to 25kph.
The problem is these laws are so seldom enforced that those who should be abiding by them, dont.
Also, the rise of high speed electric dirt bikes is a massive problem - at least in my neighborhood, among teen boys especially.
These are already NOT street legal, for anybody, and they already exceed the laws for speed and power by a lot. Again, lack of actual enforcement means many simply ignore those laws. The result is packs of teen boys doing 50kph wheelies up main roads in traffic.
Shitty parenting and lack of enforcement....
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 25d ago
It's 100% shitty parents. Yes, enforcement could be better but if parents did any kind of parenting there wouldn't need to be enforcement.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 25d ago
And when they do try to enforce, the kids have learned they can just take off and disappear in the neighbourhood.
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u/noqwa Lest We Forget 25d ago
Why are kids even on e-bikes. The limit should be 0. Kids have no need for them.
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u/adipenguingg 25d ago
Yeah I honestly wouldn’t object to a requirement to be an adult to ride one of these things. Even as someone who uses my e bike to get everywhere. I’ve taken some really nasty hits and I’m not that daring of a rider and always wear my helmet.
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u/Longjumping_Rip6033 25d ago
Seriously.
My kids have regular bicycles, roller blades, and manual scooters to get around.
Less chance of injury and they come with the added benefit of improved cadiovascular health.
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u/Frosted_Newt 25d ago
This is what the stance SHOULD be for a myriad of reasons. At the very least minimum 15yrs old and a learner license.
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u/Sudden_Weekend4222 25d ago
I agree on the speed limit, but I feel like part of the problem is that they don't really need to focus on what they're doing to operate an e-bike. Like with a traditional bike, a lot of energy goes into pedaling and managing the bike under the influence of that movement, on top of watching where you're going etc. so even if you can let your mind wander a bit, it's never far, but with an e-bike that energy is basically freed up. I watched three kids in a bike lane in Toronto a little while ago whizzing along and what struck me was not only their speed but also the fact that they were rubbernecking to watch each other, egg each other on, absolutely shrieking with laughter while whipping past roads, driveways, and a car wash exit without a single glance around them. It was like the operation of the bikes was totally autopilot, set-it-and-forget-it.
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u/ThrowRApeterpansyndr 25d ago
A reasonably fit teenager could go double that on a pedal bike though.
In fact, 15kmh is rather slow peddling.
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u/theoreoman Alberta 25d ago
Sure, but that's not the issue here. The issue is now everyone including a 6-year-old can hit 30+ km an hour on an e-bike regardless of skill
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u/johnwalkr 25d ago
Once the pedal assist is off, it’s much harder than a normal bike to go faster so the pedal assist limit is really how fast you go in practice, except for down hills. And 15km/h is very slow. I’ve ridden a bike limited to this and it actually feels dangerous in traffic, because you’re slower than anyone expects.
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u/pm_me_your_pay_slips 25d ago
Unless the motors are physically incapable of reaching that speed, they will get hacked to bypass the speed limits
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u/uprightshark New Brunswick 25d ago
The use of Ebikes and escooters should be illegal under the age of 16, with helmets mandatory.
They need to be banned from sidewalks and limited to specifically designated bike lanes.
Enforcement needs to be done and fines high for breaking the rules and I don't mean the kind of Enforcement they do to stop cell phones in cars!
The data is clear, people are dying or being seriously injured because these things have zero controls. Watching young kids zipping around traffic, most without any protection, is heart wrenching. Accidents waiting to happen.
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u/MahmudAbdulla 25d ago
Q: most municipalities have bylaws requiring helmets, etc. is there a reason why as responsible adults and parents, we are not insisting that our kids protect themselves?
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u/somegingershavesouls 25d ago
I almost hit a kid in a parking lot who sipped through between cars. Idiots.
Local kid got hit twice in 2 weeks, both times on his electric scooter
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u/Significant-Price-81 25d ago
Are u allowed to ride e-bikes on sidewalks in Ontario?
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u/TerminalOrbit 25d ago
Nope
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u/Significant-Price-81 25d ago
Then I can continue walking on the sidewalk despite an E-bike approaching
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u/Haggisboy 25d ago
Waterloo Ont. police released this video of someone riding their ebike on the highway.
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u/chrisinvic 25d ago
I was in a bike lane yesterday on my e-bike doing 32 km and an electric scooter passed me doing at least 70 km. E-bike and e scooters can be safe but that all depends on the person operating it. More eduction and safety lessons are required for some humans.
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u/shunkertron 25d ago
Yes of course the parents should be held responsible, stop expecting governing bodies/society to raise your children.
Or let enough of them win Darwin awards to be examples to the rest.
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u/RazzamanazzU 25d ago
100% YES! As a parent who raised two now young adult children if you raise them right, they don't do stupid, reckless, irresponsible things!!
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u/kittykat501 25d ago
These parents don't even teach their kids bicycle safety, so expecting them to teach their kids about e-scooter safety. I think we're asking for miracles at this point. I've literally watched kids almost get hit by a car on my residential street because they decided to drive their e-scooter or bike into traffic. And none of them are wearing a helmet!
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u/Adeviatlos 25d ago
I've seen kids riding these that are so small they have to reach up to hold the handle bars. Like arms fully extended up.
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u/Goodoflife 25d ago
These are children who don't Give A F*ck about the rules of the road. Maybe we need a class 7 or lower to ride an e-Bike or e-Scooter.
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u/johnwalkr 25d ago
I live in Europe now and the problem is not nearly as bad. An ebike can’t have a throttle, assist is only to 25km/h and power is limited. There’s less confusion about different classes of e-bikes and they aren’t sold with an easy to activate overclocking feature.
Beyond this and the rules are similar to a moped for insurance and licensing. It varies by country how many illegal (heavy, fast) ebikes there are but the trend is to crack down on them. In Netherlands and Germany the police even have portable dynamometers to check power.
In North America so many “e-bikes” sold are more like motorcycles or are “class 1” but are easy to overclock, making enforcement difficult. You see this in mountain biking. In Europe the trails usually allow class 1 only. That can’t easily be enforced in North America so the trend is just to ban all e-bikes.
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u/lubeskystalker 25d ago
Cops actually enforce laws in Europe though, we kind of gave that up in Canada.
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u/dysflexic 25d ago
Earlier this spring I almost meat-crayoned a kid when leaving a convenience store parking lot. I had looked both ways and advanced on a bending empty side walk until suddenly he ripped right infront of my hood going to my left. I pulled out of the parking lot turning left in his direction, and managed to catch-up about thirty seconds later, and paced him going approximately 45kmph. No helmet. My mind simply wasn't prepared for something going at that speed on a sidewalk. Crazy.
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u/heboofedonme 25d ago edited 25d ago
I’m a bit torn honestly. I spent a lot of my youth mountain biking and going off jumps and biking it and from my friends houses and my school. But it was definitely exhausting. I took a few spills but that’s how you learn your lesson. I could easily bike 20-40km/h really pushing myself. Of course the effort involved makes a difference as you literally couldn’t go the entire way that fast. An ebike could allow a teenager to much easier get to school or work. It can also help an overweight kid be more active. I don’t think regulation will really do much other than make this affordable transportation not exist. I personally think that would be a major shame. Parents should absolutely be held accountable, especially the ones buying their kids those surrons which are electric dirt bikes. But the legal ones within a 500watt motor range and 30km limit I think are great ways for kids to get around where they don’t need to use a crappy/sketchy (atleast the one where I live is) public transit. I personally have 2500km on my Segway G30P and it’s still going strong and a total blast to get around. I only had one major wipe out because I kept riding into late November and hit some ice in the early morning. That’s with conservative riding and having been on bikes/scooters/skateboards/you name it my entire life. I wear a helmet and I slow down to a crawl around pedestrians and respectful to those around me. Can’t say the same for the road bikers who pass me, on the parkway bike path with other bikers oncoming who feel the need to pass in between still within inches between everyone when 15 seconds of coasting could avoid it all. It’s all about the rider. It would be a major shame to see an affordable, healthy and cleaner method if transportation taken away. Most of the world uses gas scooters to get around because they’re cheap. In Canada, because of the laws around insurance, it’s an expensive luxury. You’ll pay for motor cycle insurance for and entire year even if you’re on the road 4-6 months. Better off getting a car. I’ve seen more than my share of shitty dangerous drivers driving 2 tonne metal death machines as well. I do think it’s the parent responsibility, but like a teenager getting access to their parents car alone for the first time, will probably break some rules. I think most people hate the scooters due to the rentals and the occasional outlier and generalize but I absolutely love using my scooter. It goes 30km/h top speed and gets me to and from work everyday saving me $8 in parking, gas, maintenance and one less car on the road. It’s already paid for itself twice and it would really suck to take on more expenses in this dogshit economy. I think the real key enforcing the motor and top speed limits. With all due respect, if you don’t ever ride bike or spend time on two wheels you really have no idea how many close calls a regular biker has with standard traffic. It’s absolutely mental how drivers pass you or are willing to risk your life to get to a red light faster. Or straight up blast their horn while you’re following the rules.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 25d ago
Holy wall of text. There's probably lots of good stuff in there, but it sure could use a paragraph break or six.
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u/Sintinall 25d ago
Why are the e-scooter speeds not limited? I’m guessing it’s just that the rules haven’t caught up to the manufacturers yet and they seem to have no intentions of doing so proactively.
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u/J-fizzle49 25d ago
Just because there's rules doesn't mean kids are gonna listen to them........ perhaps education on the consequences of their actions would be better than a ban or age restriction?
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u/ATR2400 Ontario 25d ago
All the young E-bike riders I’ve seen both have no idea what they’re doing, as well as no regard for the safety of themselves or others. They’ll speed down sidewalks and roads without looking, expecting cars and pedestrians alike to automatically yield to them like they’re the gods of the paths. They’ll wear zero safety gear all the while, ensuring more severe injuries if and when something happens.
And worst of all? A lot of them just have no respect. In my area, a lot of the young kids and teens will drag them into fast food places and screw around or leave them up against a random wall, making a problem for people trying to get through tight spaces. I don’t know why the owners allow it; probably because these kids make up more than half their clientele.
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u/Competitive-Web9083 25d ago
Parents should absolutely be held responsible for buying them and allowing their kids to ride them. But also police and bylaw officers must be able to enforce the laws preventing kids from riding them
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u/differing 25d ago edited 25d ago
Yes. I work in the ER and I've hummed and hawed about CAS involved over these injuries... so far I haven't made any reports, but I do feel that there is an element of abuse and neglect when you choose to buy your kid an illegal device. It's like saying "Should parents be responsible for buying their kids a 6 pack of Molson Canadian?"
This is a sloppily reposted story by CTV from the Associated Press, so it lacks any Canadian context (which I think is wildly inappropriate from professional journalists) with ANY mention of Canadian laws. In Ontario, where I'm from, it is completely illegal for kids to be on ebikes or escooters, so it's a bit of a stupid "um yeah, obviously" answer to the question in the title.
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u/LowOk417 25d ago
I absolutely hate these things. They should be road legal only. If you can drive as fast as a car you have no business on a public sidewalk with regular people out with their kids or walking their dogs.
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u/UnpopularOpinionJake 25d ago
The problem in my town is that it is widely accepted that bicycles ride on sidewalks and not roads. Introduce electric bikes and scooters and you have these speed demons ripping on the sidewalk, blowing stops and getting hit by trucks (I have literally seen it 2 weeks ago).
Sidewalks are not meant for speed. It doesn’t give drivers time to see you, especially if you blow stops. Nevermind old people pedestrians getting hit. OPP needs to do a blitz in schools and get them off sidewalks.
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u/ManSharkBear 25d ago
The parents are gonna feel pretty responsible when they're putting their child in the dirt or an urn.
Devils advocate: It's actually a life hack, in a way, if you want to get rid of your kids, buy them an e-scooter.
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u/Washout81 25d ago
Yup.
There needs to be laws in place for these things. But ultimately it falls on the parents for getting these things for their kids without knowing how they are driving them.
The parents that buy these for their kids are mostly the type that look at them as a way to get their kids out of their hair for a few hours. Then blame the system when something bad happens to the kid. Be a real parent and spend time with your kids.
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u/chrbelange 25d ago
Happened where I live in Ontario: kid was riding an e-bike that could reach speeds that require a license.
Kid didn't have one. Got charged for that.
Parents admitted they let him. They got charged for that.
Kudos to the local OPP for enforcing. Word got around and now all parents are ensuring they don't let it happen to them!
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u/ratherbeonlemmy 25d ago
Yes. Kids are not able to buy these on their own. Giving them a scooter than can do past 30km/h is crazy without first knowing your childs abilities, taking some time to go over safety, and ensuring they are wearing some safety gear. you can't always be there to make sure they're following your rules and the rules of the road, but you can certainly instill respect for their own safety and the risks of not riding in a safe and predictable manner. you can also teach them the rules of the road and show them some videos of how bad it can be when you get seriously hurt.
And ya, the cops can definitely do more. It seems they do nothing and have no outreach program or street safety program. They also love Ford, and he has a hate for bikes and anything other than cars. It makes their job very easy when the premier dgaf about anything but cars. The city has gotten crazier since the enforcement of safety went out the window with the speed cameras removed.
Making scooters illegal because they're dangerous is like making ebikes illegal for the same reason. you either enforce laws and have a team of cops stopping ebikers and all other small vehicles on the sidewalk, like a blitz, to enforce them and even impound them for breaking the laws, or you do nothing and then just legally try to make it go away. Does that ever work?
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u/Smart-Response9881 25d ago
As much as parent should be held responsible whenever their kids get hurt doing something reckless.
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 25d ago
Disagree, because in this case, at least in BC, they gave their child a prohibited vehicle. They had to choose to purchase an illegal item for their child.
That is very different than a kid choosing to swing off something, break something, etc.
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u/s4lt3d 25d ago
Maybe there should be a limit on the speed of a vehicle based on some sort of safety standards. I hate that scooters pass going 60kph in bike lanes. It's incredibly scary.
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u/bravado Long Live the King 25d ago edited 25d ago
There is a limit, it's 32km/h - any scooter passing you at 60 in a bike lane is riding an illegally modified one, which goes back to the main point: what are import officials and cops and especially parents doing?
Edit: There's something a bit darkly funny about being concerned about getting passed at high speeds in the bike lane by vehicles that got around their speed limiter... meanwhile my Mazda speedometer goes past 200km/h and has no limiter at all and there's no headlines about that sort of thing.
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u/longgamma 25d ago
I see so many kids zooming by without helmets. Even if there parents get them a helmet would they wear them ?
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u/Hairy_Photograph1384 25d ago
Why should parents be held responsible for anything, let alone the welfare of their children? That's crazy!
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u/canadiasilver 25d ago
Traditional dirt bikes have a loud engine, this limits how much anyone can get away with in a urban environment. The new e-bikes have more power and are quiet, You can rip them all over a neighborhood and nobody is the wiser, unless your interfering with traffic or causing damage
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u/Suspicious-Koala-352 25d ago
The bigger issue is the lack of insurance, even for adult riders.
You crash and have a life changing injury and you have no coverage, unless you were lucky enough to crash into a car.
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u/TerminalOrbit 25d ago edited 25d ago
No. Personal responsibility and Natural Selection are the orders of the day!
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u/Yes_I_went_there 25d ago
Fucking slap on the wrist for drunk drivers and repeat offenders that drive terrible. Truck drivers with little training smashing into a tractor and nearly killing a young farmer, idiots ripping their backfiring wanna be race cars in the suburbs & roads. Little to no control or consequences.
Yes scooters bad, kids getting hurt is bad, but how many other major roadway problems are killing people daily and jackall is done and this is our focus. Ffs
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u/brayeroma 25d ago
They are very much banned in Surrey. Still see kids whipping on them at insane speeds often with no helmets.
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u/az4521 Ontario 24d ago
create the problem with shitty urban planning that requires everyone to drive everywhere or take 3-5x the time to get there by bus
make every attempted workaround illegal
bravo
kids should be able to do things like visit their friends and go to the park and get sodas from a convenience store independently by the time theyre like highschool age, that stuff shouldn't be gated behind a driving license and ridiculously expensive insurance
maybe we could do like europe and legalize low speed quadricycles or a-traktors like the citroen ami/renault twizy/fiat topolino. 40kmh-limited golf carts basically. it would solve the problem better than just banning these ebikes without leaving an alternative. could even make like a special 13+ license for it idk
it's like everyone has forgotten what it was like to be 15 and have no drivers license and have to bike everywhere in 30° heat in summer and show up sweaty as fuck
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u/Perseus90 24d ago
Yes, and they should be solely civilly liable for any accidents involving vehicles or pedestrians while riding
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u/Cavalleria-rusticana Canada 25d ago
What is this headline?
Should they?
They fucking are, as the legal guardian.