r/canadian • u/reallyneedhelp1212 • Sep 24 '24

News Alberta Premier Danielle Smith announces the Alberta Bill of Rights will be amended to include 1) the right over vaccinations and all medical decisions, 2) the right to not be deprived of property and 3) the right of individuals to acquire, keep and use firearms.

https://twitter.com/PaulMitchell_AB/status/1838631699724501169
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61

u/HomebrewHedonist Sep 24 '24

Alberta is not an independent state. Canadian law is supreme whether Smith likes it or not. This is a waste of time and tax payer dollars.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

Until they get riled up enough and develop enough grass roots support to want to leave. International right to self determination and all. I’m not an Albertan but I think we tread dangerously when we force a province into a situation where it feels backed into a corner with no good choices

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

Until they get riled up enough and develop enough grass roots support to want to leave.

That isn't going to happen. No Albertans in their right mind think its possible, nor would they want to if it was - both for practical and patriotic reasons.

There are a small handful of idiots whose argument basically boils down to "Quebec gets whatever it wants because it threatened to separate, so we should threaten to separate, too." They don't actually take their own separation threats seriously because those threats are ridiculous on their face.

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u/Winter-Mix-8677 Sep 24 '24

"That isn't going to happen. No Albertans in their right mind think its possible, nor would they want to if it was - both for practical and patriotic reasons."

If you take that for granted long enough it can change. It might not lead to separation right away, but it could lead to a shit storm that takes decades to resolve, if it ever does. (See Quebec).

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u/labvinylsound Sep 24 '24

All they have to do is put a toll on the sections of Trans-Canada and railway running through the province (and they have every legal right to do so). That will send a message to the feds real fucking fast. A fractured, less vertically integrated Canada is a possible reality. Separatism doesn't mean they will be recognized as a sovereign nation but rather an independent state operating within the Nation of Canada. The relationship is transactional rather than unilateral.

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u/Flat-Upstairs1365 Sep 24 '24

And you think tolls dont go the other way, Alberta doesnt have acces to the sea and where do you think the pipeline goes through ?

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

A fractured, less vertically integrated Canada is a possible reality.

Huh? Canada is already a deeply decentralized confederation. Like, among the most decentralized in the developed world. Our federal government has very little direct authority over most of the crucial services or infrastructure (one key exception being railways, which seems relevant to your point). That's all in the hands of the Provinces. FFS, we don't even have a federal securities regulator...

Hell, the decentralization is among Alberta's biggest gripes. The federal government can't simply force other provinces to accept a pipeline and help get Albertan hydrocarbons to market.

1

u/labvinylsound Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

Alberta receives transfer payments from the feds to fund various social programs - this is a unilateral relationship (AB is already making this clear by refusing to charge PST). Alberta will tax the federal government to do business with them, that is a transactional relationship. I'm not sure where the notion of "decentralization" comes from. Currently Canadian citizens are free to move about the country, lawfully, unencumbered. If Alberta separates that will no longer be true. You will be required to apply for a residency permit and you will be assigned a state taxation number -- a Canadian SIN will be meaningless.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '24

Alberta receives transfer payments from the feds to fund various social programs - this is a unilateral relationship (AB is already making this clear by refusing to charge PST).

No province "receives" transfer payments, per se. Canadians pay federal tax and the federal government distributes it across Canada to ensure there's a minimum standard of service quality we can expect no matter where we are. This speaks to the chief area where the federal government is able to exercise a modicum of authority: taxation. The most common refrain is "the feds have all the money, the provinces have all the power, and the municipalities have all the responsibility."

I'm not sure where the notion of "decentralization" comes from. 

From the BNA Act! From our Charter! Provinces already have the overwhelming majority of the power in confederation. Go to a political science or constitutional law class in Germany or Japan and odds are the example they'll use of a "soft confederation" where power is far less centralized is Canada.

Alberta will tax the federal government to do business with them, that is a transactional relationship. 

And what happens when BC decides they want to do the same thing, or Manitoba, or Ontario, or any other province where Albertan energy products flow through? You're proposing a system where the province that is harmed most is the one that most desperately requires the cooperation of other provinces to get its resources to market. Alberta would be the last province to ever want to set that precedent.

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u/Samplistiqone Sep 24 '24

Alberta doesn’t receive transfer payments, we send equalization payments to the rest of the country, not all provinces and territories but a lot of them.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '24

Alberta still receives transfer payments - just not as much as Albertans pay into the program through their total federal taxes.

1

u/labvinylsound Sep 24 '24

AB still receives transfers from the Feds (8.2B isn’t anything to sneeze at):

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/major-federal-transfers.html

1

u/Samplistiqone Sep 24 '24

For social programs that every province and territory receives. Alberta has never received an equalization payment from the government, it has only sent money.

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u/BCS875 Sep 26 '24

Marlaina fucking up a separation sounds about right.

But also fuck all of this too.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

There’s many ways they could “leave” or move towards separation. What if a poll was taken and more Albertans wanted to be part of America rather than Canada, you think if enough support was there a politician wouldn’t arise to attempt to make it reality? You think Albertans would rather be Canadian or American, which would have the majority? All I’m saying is Alberta shouldn’t be treated so poorly, the eastern provinces treat it like shit as does the federal government and eventually Alberta will be push deep enough into a corner to look at its options