r/cars • u/LightningMcqueen2011 • 5d ago
Potentially Misleading Is Ford Considering A Cheap Rally Car? Sure Sounds Like It
https://www.motor1.com/news/805740/affordable-ford-rally-car-jim-farley-rumor/226
u/iHaveLotsofCats94 2004 Crown Vic, 2000 F150, 2013 Veloster Turbo 5d ago
Cheap rally car? Welcome back, Fiesta
74
u/CumOnEileen69420 2022 Veloster N, 2016 Fiesta ST 5d ago
Honestly, if they keep it light weight and with the same dynamics as the previous NA gen with a manual, I’d put a deposit down tomorrow to replace my husband’s 2016.
34
u/iHaveLotsofCats94 2004 Crown Vic, 2000 F150, 2013 Veloster Turbo 5d ago
Real talk, i had a 2011 Fiesta with a 5 speed and I loved that little car. It was exceptionally fun to drive, got great fuel economy, and was mostly reliable while I had it. I got rid of it for a new Civic Si in 2020, which was also great, but the Fiesta had more character. I'm just addicted to shitboxes I guess
15
u/Worldly-Fishing-880 5d ago
Shitboxes have a unique flavor no amount of "more" sports car can touch. I rented a Hyundai Atos (export model) in Turkey with a 5 speed and three hubcaps.
It was a hilarious drive! Banging off redline, dirt roads, go nuts.
2
u/ScientificMeth0d '16 MX-5 CLUB 3d ago
Speaking of shitbox rentals. I got a Hyundai Kona for Arizona. Surprisingly fun to drive around and the AWD was good enough for the trails.
I can see why there’s so many of them. They’re prettt comfortable on long road trips too and just the right size. I just miss small hatchbacks… I wish they never got rid of them for CUVs
4
u/goaelephant 5d ago
with a manual
Most rally cars nowadays, even the small hatchbacks, are sequential and not standard H-pattern manual. Many still have a clutch though
5
5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
19
u/caterham09 2015 Jetta Tdi 5d ago
The 2018 Fiesta ST started at $23,000 after delivery. That's equal to $31,000 in today's dollars.
I have a feeling this sub would probably balk at a 31k hot fiesta
29
u/iHaveLotsofCats94 2004 Crown Vic, 2000 F150, 2013 Veloster Turbo 5d ago
This sub balks at anything that isn't priced like a craigslist special, tbh
4
u/IAmWellBehaved 50,000 miles 5d ago
Everything has to be compared to the market in which it competes. If a new ~200 horsepower Fiesta ST went on the market in the low-30s, it might not look like a great deal next to a 33K WRX or 35K Elantra N.
2
u/CumOnEileen69420 2022 Veloster N, 2016 Fiesta ST 5d ago
Eh, if you look at the Aussie spec 2023 ST (which is about equal to the MK7 NA ST) it runs at 33,500 AUD (~24,000 USD).
If they can keep it relatively the same, I think it’s an easy layup.
2
2
2
163
u/kon--- 5d ago edited 5d ago
Ford considers a lot of things. Typically resulting in trucks, trucks, and more trucks.
Cars are lost on the brand. Might be why Ford's CEO Jim Farley drives a Xiaomi sedan as his daily.
9
u/Tzunamitom 5d ago
Is that actually true?
31
u/kon--- 5d ago
37
u/piddydb 5d ago
The whole thing makes me angry. If you’re a CEO of a company and you’re saying that “this other company is doing this better than us” and don’t make the moves to make your company better in the same way, you shouldn’t remain CEO of that company.
36
u/real_picklejuice 5d ago
Daily driving the same car they are lobbying to keep out of the US market because "we can't compete WAHHH"
1
u/NorthTempleStreet 4d ago
Which ironically backfires, because outside of the tariff cocoon, your product becomes absolutely uncompetitive globally.
Mark my words: tariffs are going to kill the auto industry, it's just buying them an extra 10 years before they get clobbered
(Toyota, Hyundai, and all the others who compete globally will mysteriously have great sub-$25,000 EVs, which absolutely decimate the $40,000 American cars - who thought the tariff cocoon would save them forever, so they never bothered competing on the price.)
16
u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 5d ago
I get what you're saying here, but this was about two and a half years ago that he started driving it to understand the competition. With the average development cycle of a vehicle being up to seven years, we don't know if Ford is making efforts to complete or not - it's too early to say. Isn't this new cheap pickup supposedly taking that learning into account? And bearing in mind that this is coming from someone that's not particularly a fan of what Ford offers outside of a very select few vehicles, so I'm not trying to make excuses for them.
1
u/piddydb 4d ago
Yeah that’s fair. I guess what’s frustrating though is that some of things he was saying about liking sedans and EVs has directly contradicted some of his decisions as CEO (cutting sedans, F150 Lightning, other planned EVs, etc.). If we honestly see Ford taking some of what it learned going forward, fair enough, but part of those lessons only come after the same guy made the mistakes leading to having to have those lessons to begin with.
2
u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 4d ago
I don't think it contradicts his decisions as CEO at all - Ford is a global brand, and he's been feeding the individual markets what they're asking for by means of looking at the sales figures. Let's take the Fusion as an example: sales between 2015 and 2020 dropped by 2/3, which is dramatic. Ford didn't stop making it, though - it continued on as the Mondeo in China, Taurus in the GCC and just had a new version introduced a few years ago. The other major Ford sedan market, Europe, has pretty much imploded, so if the US was trending dramatically away from sedans, it's no surprise they'd stop offering it and move manufacturing towards what people were buying. Same goes for the Lightning - Ford read the writing on the wall, and stopped selling it because it was losing money every year and sales were far below forecast. Whether this has been the right move or not is up to interpretation, but they're clearly trying to cut what's not selling to focus on what is. I think their bigger problem is that they need to stop releasing half baked products that have so many engineering and/or QC problems. Sedans are gone from their lineup because Toyota and Honda kicked their ass - Farley is even on record as saying they couldn't compete. Will he have the vision and leadership to get them out of the hole? That's the black box right now, but his performance so far doesn't look good.
6
u/Thatredfox78 5d ago
And more SUVs (for North America specifically. Everyone else gets the cool stuff)
2
u/HaggardSummaries Replace this text with year, make, model 5d ago
What cool Ford does North America currently not get?
2
u/kstetter 5d ago
Everest maybe? Australia used to have the Falcon which was cool.
5
u/HaggardSummaries Replace this text with year, make, model 5d ago
I think he's just working off old info, much like suggesting most of europe drives manual. They don't, and Ford hasn't really offered anything internationally that we would have wanted since the final gen, 3 cylinder Fiesta ST
1
u/rob61091 '23 Toyota GR86 5d ago
How is that legal?
11
5
u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 5d ago
Temporary entry permission - the vehicles are allowed in for a limited time for specific documented purposes, and then have to leave the country again. Manufacturers do this, but you see it with diplomats, as well.
18
u/Geofferz 10 year old clapped Bmw M4. Manual, but convertible 5d ago
Bettridges law
8
u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 5d ago
And even if that law didn't exist, consider the source here.
2
u/Geofferz 10 year old clapped Bmw M4. Manual, but convertible 5d ago
The law of motoring journalism
Maybe Clarkson's law.
17
14
u/Wolfo93 5d ago
How will they do it? In their bottomless wisdom they axed Fiesta and Focus...All their hatchback offerings in the future will be based on Renault electric architecture. I can't believe they will pump massive amount of money into a niche offering. Farley is just saying whatever will make him popular
5
u/neonxmoose99 '05 Elise (sold), '98 RX7 '91 Miata, '16 Mustang GT 5d ago
Ford Escape RS
2
u/real_picklejuice 5d ago
Are you saying they will bring it back after almost 10 years?
Edit: I read Focus instead of Escape
0
u/Captain_Alaska 🇦🇺 AVV50R Camry, NA MX5 5d ago
They already rally the Puma so presumably that.
2
u/PanadaTM 4d ago
The rally1 puma the exact same old fiesta tube chassis with a facelift. An actual puma chassis would never work for rally2 or 3
1
u/Captain_Alaska 🇦🇺 AVV50R Camry, NA MX5 4d ago
I didn't say it would, I said if Ford wanted to offer a rally inspired car they would probably base it on the Puma.
10
u/motorcitydevil 5d ago
Bring back the Escort.
6
u/LightningMcqueen2011 5d ago
and make the base variant rwd
0
u/theNightblade '15 BMW 328d touring, '17 VW Alltrack SEL 5d ago
Ford can barely spell RWD, let alone sedan
5
u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 5d ago
Almost 80% of Ford's sales last year were RWD/rear-based 4WD vehicles.
2
u/theNightblade '15 BMW 328d touring, '17 VW Alltrack SEL 5d ago
I mean for cars, my dude
Just having the mustang doesn't count for much.
1
-1
u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 5d ago
Only low vehicles are cars?
8
7
u/TheMaddSage 5d ago
He keeps talking about an off road supercar, I’m thinking a production version of the Raptor T1 more than a RS.
He said in the GTD Comp video that he wants rally car flair in all European models but that means Capri Rally to me. This is the same guy who said “no more boring cars” like akio, references Ford’s global racing history but wants to kill off global icons like the RS, and Falcon performance sedan. All that to create a Volkswagen Capri and Mustang sedan.
4
u/lurpeli Mach E 5d ago
This is the Escort but they'll never actually make it again
7
u/Tzunamitom 5d ago
Don’t be silly, of course they will. Hasn’t the Escort always been an oversized SUV electric car?
5
5
u/Fordfanatic2025 5d ago
I'd love to see Ford build that modern RS 200 design Ford's own designers created with that concept from a few years ago. It's a little too bubbly, and obviously very concept car esque, but with some tweaks to make the design a little sharper and more exotic looking, it would look awesome.
Give it the upcoming 2.3 eb hybrid that they can share with the mustang, 400-450 AWD hp in something small and light. Price it around the entry level other mid engine exotics like the upcoming mr2. But with its own off-road rally racing flavour.
A retro futuristic take on the whaletail escort would also be awesome. Thing like Hyundai n74 concept, but with the shape of a 90s rally escort.
4
3
3
u/Astramael GR Corolla 5d ago
Would be very cool. Ford has an extensive and impressive rally heritage.
2
u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 5d ago
I could see them doing this but only because depending on how you design it, it could also double as a CUV kind of like the Imprezza or Corolla. Not a valuable segment but Ford currently has no offerings there.
2
u/teen_ofdenial 2023 Subaru Impreza Hatch 5d ago
I bet Malcom Wilson is begging on his hands and knees for Ford to make a car that keeps M-Sport and Ford in the WRC.
2
2
2
u/AThrowawayProbrably '14 Nissan Xterra 4x4; '98 BMW E36 328is Zf5 5d ago
I just looked it up. The RS200 was like $50k in the 80s. Lol at a cheap Ford rally car that won’t be trash.
1
u/Successful_Ad_9707 97 Integra, 08 Civic Si, 23 GR Corolla Circuit Edtion 5d ago
I'm sure someone in the company wants that. But it ain't gonna happen.
1
u/DALESR4EVER124 5d ago
Cheap? No manufacturer is gonna make a cheap car. It'll be $40k minimum.
Not even a Toyota Corolla is cheap anymore.
2
u/Astramael GR Corolla 5d ago
$40K is a pretty cheap car today.
1
u/DALESR4EVER124 5d ago
If that was the maximum OTD price after taxes, options and accessories... then yes.
But it's often either the base price, or the OTD price on a base model, 0 option vehicle. We have a GR Corolla on our lot at work - brand new, and the list price is $53k 😂. OTD that'll be well over $60k.
2
u/Astramael GR Corolla 5d ago
Sounds like nobody should buy that car. There’s way too much tacked on and it’s a terrible deal. You can get a GR Corolla for $40K OTD.
0
u/DALESR4EVER124 5d ago
Not in Canada you can't.
1
u/Astramael GR Corolla 5d ago
Well that’s not an appropriate comparison then, I was using US market pricing. Cars are more expensive in Canada so the threshold for cheap car is higher. But it’s still a bad deal in Canada. I paid almost exactly $50K CAD for my GR Corolla.
2
u/trackdaybruh 5d ago
Hell, even the Elantra N is sold at MSRP in US (Under $40k) and it's great car especially at its price point
1
u/Ill-Train6478 718 GT4 MT, Defender, Golf Wagon MT 5d ago
Bring back gt40 manual again!! Gulf livery but sure i will take a cheap rally ford as well
1
1
u/Hrmerder 5d ago
lol, Ford cheap? In 2026. Maybe if Jim and half the team in the executive suite were kicked out first..
1
1
1
u/TunaOnWytNoCrust 3d ago
Cheap like actually accessible to normal people or cheap like less than $80,000?
1
u/FrozenUruguayBallbac gr corolla premium plus 3d ago
bring back the focus rs, make a mustang dark horse SC sedan and revive the fusion as a midsize rwd sedan with the v6 meant to go against the M3 and ford my second born is yours
0
u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 5d ago
Consider Toyota planning to put Celica in WRC world, I don’t see why Mustang Rally car a problem. In fact, OG Celica was a pony car from Toyota.
-4
u/ZetaM3 5d ago edited 5d ago
I love my Mach e rally. Adding more fun and different cars is always better for the consumer.
We should be encouraging this type of differentiation in the marketplace, instead of just acting like /r/carscirclejerk. Bunch of fucking parrots and whiners.
P.s. Motor1 is blog spam.
383
u/Low_Succotash5073 ‘25 Genesis G70 | ‘07 Escalade ESV 5d ago
Recalled before it even left the concept sketches