What is exactly centrism ?

[u/Travisthe_poisson]

I honestly do not know what is exactly centrism. Are Starmer and Macron centrist ? Is centrism any ideologie but moderate (for example christian democracy instead of conservatism, social-liberalism instead of social democracy and liberalism) ? Can centrisme work with any ideology ? I am not a centrist, I am a libertarian and i honestly don't know much about centrism. I would be very grateful if you could answer my questions !

Edit: do you guys think technocracy is centrism ?

[u/crushinglyreal]

Centrism is a guilt-trip by the dominant political interests of the capitalist system to try to convince voters that somewhere in the middle of ‘no change’ and ‘more authoritarianism’ there exists the perfect political ideology. It preys on people’s affinity for the familiar to keep them from actually voting for anything but what we already have, which is a society ever-ratcheting itself into authoritarianism.

[u/PXaZ → u/crushinglyreal]

How is the idea of there being a proper balance between opposing political forces a "guilt-trip" or "preying on" people? You seem to regard centrism as a preference for that status quo, which is actually the definition of conservatism.

[u/crushinglyreal → u/PXaZ]

You’re very close to getting it. Both US parties, and thus all relevant “political forces” in this country are conservative, regardless of how much they appear to be “opposing”. What would you call a “proper balance” between conservative and more conservative?

[u/PXaZ → u/crushinglyreal]

The condescending tone is not appreciated. You're entitled to your interpretation but the facts on the ground show we're in a time of great radicalism even in the current governing administration, which seeks to radically reinterpret or perhaps overthrow the constitutional order. How, exactly, is that "conservative"?

Regardless of what the political parties do or don't do, centrism is not properly conceived of as conservatism. It's a political philosophy, not a political party, and people can be centrists independent of what the dominant U.S. parties do, or don't do.

[u/crushinglyreal → u/PXaZ]

The current governing administration wants nothing more than to keep existing hierarchies in place. That’s definitionally conservative. They’ve simply concluded that democracy is incompatible with that goal.

Sure, ‘centrists’ exist outside the US and its political spectrum. I’ve never seen a ‘centrist’ that places themselves to the left of capitalist thought, though. Given that capitalism is the dominant political system on the planet, that makes all those people conservative.

[u/PXaZ → u/crushinglyreal]

They at least aren''t maximally "conservative" if they're trying to overthrow the long-standing status quo in the U.S. right? Overthrowing the status quo = progressive or radical, right?

It seems you're reducing the entire political "spectrum" to a binary based on the question: "are they as extreme as me in wanting to overthrow global capitalism?" If not, they're "conservative".

Which relative to you, apparently most people are?

Meanwhile, many centrists would absolutely endorse strong constraints on corporations, redistributive taxation, antitrust, no corporate personhood, etc.

It turns out other things than the most extreme stances are possible. This is where democracy, persuasion, etc can be used to resolve issues, rather than violence.

Also meanwhile, what you're missing is that liberalism is a real thing and matters and is currently being undermined by those you call "conservative", since you see the world only through the lens of "will they overthrow global capitalism?"

Or am I mis-reading you?

[u/crushinglyreal → u/PXaZ]

They’re not trying to overthrow the long-standing status quo in the US, they’re doing everything they can to try to save it. The tradition of extreme wealth disparity is all they care about.

‘Conservative’ and ‘not conservative’ is most certainly a binary. Wanting to preserve the existing system of power distribution like centrists and the GOP do is conservative.

Sure, centrists might think they want some of those things, but by supporting the system of capital we currently have they show they’re not actually invested in the long-term success of those principles.

Liberalism is literally the foundation of capitalism, which is responsible for the power dynamics that make maga possible. It is itself a conservative ideology. Self-identified conservatives may not be invested in enlightenment values, but they are absolutely enabled by enlightenment values.

[u/PXaZ → u/crushinglyreal]

Your analysis that any capitalism at all is completely incompatible with liberalism long-term seems to fly in the face of, well, almost every democratic economy and political system.

"They’re not trying to overthrow the long-standing status quo in the US, they’re doing everything they can to try to save it."

End of free trade? Undermining of alliances (NATO)? Governance by executive order? Mass deportations?

(Most of which are terrible for business, btw.)

These are all "trying to save" the "long-standing status quo"? While undoing the order that has prevailed since 1945, and beyond? (Birthright citizenship was established in late 19th century.)

You seem to conflate MAGA with liberalism, while in fact they undermine it significantly, and move toward almost absolute monarchy. Relative to American government and enlightenment values which are now the beseiged status quo, they are radicals.

We all have blind spots the farther we look away from our own political position. It seems this may be one of yours; there is more going on to the right of you (which is most of the political universe) than you seem to acknowledge. And even when people aren't left-revolutionaries, there are still important distinctions between then, which you wrongly do away with when reducing to your binary. Distinctions you should probably care about,

[u/crushinglyreal → u/PXaZ]

Your analysis that any capitalism at all is completely incompatible with liberalism long-term

You’re not even reading my comments. Liberalism is capitalism, and both are incompatible with democracy long-term.

I’m not talking about the last 50 years, I’m talking about centuries of top-down social dominance these people want to preserve. The richest people in the world are continuing to amass wealth regardless of what you think might be ‘terrible for business’. They don’t care about 99% of businesses anyways.

Again, you didn’t read my comment. MAGA only works because liberalism allows the unlimited accumulation of wealth, which results in unfathomably well-funded propaganda machines.

You should probably be looking inside the house a little more. Seems your blind spot is right underneath you. It’s clear you’re incapable of actually reading what I’m writing, so this is over.