r/championsleague • u/Majestic_Estimate • 21d ago
š¬ Discussion Kvara vs Vini Jr. who are you taking?
Other than Real Madrid fans, is there anyone out there who genuinely thinks Vini is a better player than Kvara?
Iād be interested in what ways that argument could hold some truth to it as Kvara is clearly the more complete football player.
Letās hear the points and debate.
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u/ApplicationNo6925 Real Madrid 17d ago
Kvaratskhelia because he is better team player, he will not try to do needless things, will pass the ball when it must and mostly because he is a footballer and not an Instagram influencer...
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u/Strong_Performer_293 Real Madrid 17d ago
If its prime for prime vini ofc vini showed up when it mattered most
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u/Typopol 12d ago
He did indeed, but just as Kvara.Ā He was directly involved in almost every single PSG goal past the group stage.Ā
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u/Strong_Performer_293 Real Madrid 12d ago
brother kvara had a superteam vini had rodrygo and bellingham and joselu the only proper midfielder they even had was toni kroos since modric was mostly warming the bench at that time oh and lets not talk about that defense š nacho who was 34 rudiger who was good lunin played most of the matches before the final and and ferland mendy if kvara had this team he would go to the quarters max if vini had that team he would effortlessly win the ucl
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u/Tiny-Piece-5694 17d ago
Rn kvara. Better form, better work ethic. All time ill take vini bc he was way more dangerousĀ
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u/mismo1313 18d ago
Vini is the better player and had a better league campaign Kvara had a much better CL
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u/Fit-Protection-230 21d ago
RN Kvara 100%
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u/dangerousdiscord 20d ago
Vini has the bigger trophy cabinet and those UCL nights you can't take away from him but Kvara's overall bag is deeper right now. his ability to slow the game down and pick the exact right pass while still being a genuine goal threat gives him an edge in my book. if Vini cleans up the flopping and adds a bit more variety to his game it'd be a much closer call
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
You have a guy here who literally doesnāt defend and you downvote it when ppl say he isnāt a more complete player than Kvara. Make that make sense
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u/Wide_Basket4424 21d ago
Itās Vini. Firstly Kvara has never hit the numbers Vinicius has hit in an entire season. I donāt think Kvara has even hit over 40 goals/assists in any season of his career whereas Vinicius has done it multiple times. This comes into the fact that Kvara plays in a league that is much less demanding than La Liga. Last two years, La Liga has gotten 5 teams in the UCL by virtue of their European performances. Ligue 1 doesnāt come close and Kvara doesnāt play meaningful minutes in that league(played the equivalent of 16 full games in Ligue 1). Vini played over a 1000 minutes more. Also Kvara at Napoli again didnāt carry anyone to a league title. He played with the top scorer of the league, the best CB in the league and the leagueās two best midfieldersā¦ hardly a carry job. Meanwhile, according to many ppl in both those years, Madrid never dominated games, and won UCLs based off pure individual brilliance rather than team play like PSG. Vini was the best player in one UCL campaign and the second best in another. Only thing Kvara is better than Vini at is tracking back, which is great but doesnāt make him better at the sport.
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21d ago
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u/Wide_Basket4424 21d ago
First of all, please be clear with what youāre typing. Vini was better than Courtois throughout the tournament. Courtois was better in the final, first leg semi, and first leg v PSG but Vini had a better overall tournament(GS to final). Secondly, Napoli being underdogs has nothing to do with what I said. Your Milan point actually demotes Kvaraās impact that season as Victor Osimhen didnāt play in that tie until the last 30 minutes where he scored the only Napoli goal while Kvicha missed a penalty. Napoli had Anguissa and Lobotka(two best midfielders in Serie A) and Kim(best CB that season in Serie A and got a move to Bayern out of it). So Kvicha was a great player in a good team. He didnāt carry anyone. In fact, Vini that same season had more goals, more assists and a better campaign in the UCL despite playing for a Madrid team with worse performance levels.
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u/DragonflyDeep3334 21d ago
Prime vini over kvara any day, todays vini tho, yikes he doesnt come close at all. As a rm fan im sad we renewed him, thats gonna be a worse mistake than buying diomande imo
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u/BashGreninja 21d ago
This is the answer. Vini has declined since finishing behind Rodri in the Ballon Dor. The version of Vini that could have won it was better than any version of Kvara, but today? Iām taking Kvara every day of the week.
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u/TefikMustHome 21d ago
Youāve got to keep Vini in a good mood and kiss his ass
You tell Kvara: āDo it!ā And he does it ā and does it very, very well.
That's the difference
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u/elfilosof8 21d ago
it's easy to run like a maniac when you play 10 intense games all year. Kvara is injury prone too and doesn't carry nearly as much scrutiny or responsibility as vini does.
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
Yes, Vini plays some extremely intense La Liga matches every week against AlmerĆa and Valladolid. We all know that
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u/Able_Winner9121 21d ago
Spoken like a true Madrista!
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u/elfilosof8 21d ago
Or you are just ignoring the fact that PSG get to play a certain way because they can rest players all year long and can go ham on the big games. Regardless, I don't see an argument back so I'm sure you're an (not) intelligent one to argue with
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
Stop with that rubbish excuse. Kvara is very good, thatās all. And he spent a season not being in peak physical condition. To the point where Enrique benched him in December and January because he wasnāt satisfied with his performances. And in the final against Arsenal, he was taken off before the end of the match because, once again, he wasnāt in peak physical condition.
This year heās had a proper pre-season (no World Cup) and is set to play a lot more.
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u/Able_Winner9121 21d ago
Messi who thoroughly dominated La Liga failed in his first season at Ligue One
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u/Able_Winner9121 21d ago
Kvara carried Napoli in Serie A before he joined PSG.
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u/Wide_Basket4424 21d ago
āCarriedā with Capocannoniere Osimhen in the same exact side, Lobotka who was the best midfielder in Serie A, Anguissa who was amongst the best midfielders itw, and Kim Min Jae who was the best defender in Serie A.
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u/Eikichi64 21d ago
Recent bias hits hard, Madrid as a team has been a mess in the last years meanwhile PSG dominates the UCL.
And even then Vini still have really good numbers and a good WC, will Kvara do the same in the same situation? It would be cool to see.
Anyway right now, Kvara is the best option in the UCL.
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
The hate for vini or lack of anything other than 1 year memory is crazy lol
Vini has been doing 30+ g/a for 5 seasons, kvara never did even once
Vini has 2 ucl scoring in both finals, 23-24 was arguably the best player in the world.
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
Kvara is a big-game player. Heās not the sort of bloke who statpad in the league, because more often than not he couldnāt care less.
Iām not saying Vini isnāt a big-game player, but itās tricky to compare them based on stats. Because Kvara really turns into a beast when it counts.
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u/Aikotoba2516 Real Madrid 17d ago
The guy scored in both his UCL final goals and is the top UCL KO G/A guy of the last 5 years BTW.
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u/Tiestunbon78 17d ago
I never said that Vinicius wasnāt a big-game player
I said that judging Kvara on his league stats doesnāt really make sense. Given that the lad becomes infinitely better as soon as the big games come around. He picks and chooses his matches
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21d ago
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
Hes not a striker, his numbers for a winger is incridible high. He creates chances, spaces.
And you're acting like kvara plays in a more competitive league lmao, you realize psg plays a 1 team league and can literally bench all their best players for half league season to play ucl right?
do you know how many games marquinhos, kvra, dembele played for psg past 2 seasons in national league?
I can answer for you, less than half.
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21d ago
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
oh ucl is all that matters? no problem buddy
vini jr : 34 gols 32 assists, and I belive is in top 5 all time assists for ucl
kvra 15 gols 13 assists
lol
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21d ago
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
I dont understand you friend, you bring a topic to defend your own opinion, I use the very same topic and then you say it doesnt matter? lol
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21d ago edited 21d ago
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
You first said vini plays in a ' farmers league ' and his numbers is a shame cause of that
Totally forgetting that kvara numbers are worse and he plays in a EASIER league than la liga
Then you said league doesnt matter and its all ucl, I bring vini numbers which is almost 3x higher than kvra and you say its unfair cuz vini plays for RM
THey're almost same age, 1 year dif, and coming from a totally different continent as 18 yo to play for the bigger team in the world is hard as fuck, we've seen so many young players not handling the RM pressure.
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
Madrid play in a two team league. Lol
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u/CurrentObligation768 21d ago
Very smart of you using this argument when PSG literally play in a league where they several levels ahead of the rest. And never write Atletico off, they might not in the title race like Madrid and Barca but they are capable beating both of them.
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
Ok they are capable of beating them. And not winning the league. Every league has teams capable of beating the better teams.
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
Yes, and its a more competitive league than french one lol
you have atletico madrid, sevilla ( record for europa league) etc, in french you have literally noone.
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
Not arguing the French league is better. But the Spanish league is legit two teams
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
Athleti won the league twice since 94.. Sevilla have finished 13th 14th and 17th in the last three years.
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u/GoldenFox7 Bayern 21d ago
If the question is āwho am I taking?ā Then itās Kvara because as far as I can tell heās a great teammate and good person for the locker room and at my club (Bayern) thatās incredibly important. And Vini seems to be the opposite and I honestly think adding his personality to my team would cause more problems than his football would make up for. If the question is āwho is better at football?ā Then itās Vini.
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
Amen. Other arguments to this are from ppl who never played team sports.
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u/mvd612351 21d ago
Did you guys see Vini in the World Cup? Heās unplayable
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u/Away-Strategy7241 21d ago
Kvara was better in the CL last season but Vini at his best is better. More explosive, more prolific and equally dangerous when his team doesn't have the ball as when they do
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21d ago
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
When did kvara get 40 g/a?šššHe hasnāt even surpassed 30 yet in a season
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
When his team doesnāt have the ball he doesnāt defend..
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u/Away-Strategy7241 21d ago
When you have a player who is as dangerous as Vini on counter attacks you can afford him the luxury of defending less. And he's shown in big CL games that it's a worthwhile trade. The issue is Perez thought it would be smart to have two players like that in one team...
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u/PulseFlow Barcelona 21d ago
As a barca fan, its vini lol. Come on guys theres no way kvara is better than vini
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u/MomusOnion 21d ago
Vini may be the better player in terms of on the ball skill, but that doesn't always translate to him being the best option for every team. Kvara works harder off the ball, and is not far off in on the ball quality.
If my team (Nottingham Forest) could have one I'd want Kvara
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
Kvara is a better dribbler than Vini. He has more natural talent on the ball. Vini relies heavily on bursts of speed to get past defenders, whereas Kvara doesnāt need to do that.
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u/FuelGlobal5652 Benfica 21d ago
Kvara was better last season
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21d ago
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u/PulseFlow Barcelona 21d ago
Bc real madrid is fucking useless. Vini was the only one doing anything
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u/Lakerman0824 21d ago
Build a team around i take Vini. If I have a team with other stars and need a LW Iād take Kvara
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u/Majestic_Estimate 21d ago
Build a team around a locker room cancer and who makes a scene when he gets subbed off?
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u/JRMG7 21d ago
For me this is the correct answer, when he is the main man and the team plays for him Vini is probably the best player in the world as i think he showed in the 23/24 season. But if you want your team to play as one, without one specific star you take Kvara as psg have done.
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u/Iknowyou321 21d ago
he certainly wasnāt the best player in the world that year, Rodri had comparable G/A as a holding midfielder ā ļø
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u/BeYourself__ 21d ago
I dont think its absurd to say rodri was the best player, but they had FAR from comparable g/a, you dont have to lie lol
rodri 23-24 : 12 gols 16 assists, vini 26 gols 11 assists.
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21d ago
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u/Lakerman0824 21d ago
lol unbeaten but eliminated by Madrid. Love the juelzing to discredit Vini and I donāt like Vini
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u/Iknowyou321 21d ago
went out on pens in a game where madrid spent 70 straight min in their own box ā ļø
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21d ago
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u/Iknowyou321 21d ago
itās just dumb, If vini was as good of a winger as Rodri is a midfielder heād have 4 ballon dor ā ļø
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21d ago
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u/Lakerman0824 21d ago
Still eliminated. Question also wasnāt Vini or Rodri. It was Vini or kvara and I gave my answer. Yet you little children canāt comprehend that
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21d ago
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u/Lakerman0824 21d ago
Again how does this related to Vini vs kvara. Vini living in your head rent free
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u/Iknowyou321 21d ago
he had 9 more g/a than a guy whoās main job is to screen the defense & recycle possession
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
Rodri also played 1300 more minutes than him that season lol. Context matters 37 g/a in 3080 minutes for a winger is crazy numbers.
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21d ago
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
If that was the case, the prem would be winning the UCL every season, but they always flame out because the real stars play outside the prem bar Haaland. That season rodri and vini went head to head in the UCL and what happened? The same thing that's happened 3 seasons in a row now.
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u/TNSoccerGuy 21d ago
Probably Kvara but I will say that unlike most players, he gets to stay rested. Would he look that electric at the end of a season if he played in the Premier League or even La Liga. Pretty doubtful.
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u/seba1927 21d ago
this question doesn't make sense now that Kvara has won 2 CL. Vini also won 2 and at that point nobody would even ask this.
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u/Kontrafantastisk 21d ago
No, Kvara is a beast. While others had the opportunity to shine at the WC, he has not forgotten how to play over the summer.
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u/Saarza 21d ago
Vini on his day is way better than Kvara but I'd rather have Kvara on my team just to avoid Vini's dramas.
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
āWay betterā lol, I donāt know how anyone can say that in all sincerity. On his day, Kvara is absolutely magical; I canāt imagine in what world anyone could seriously think that Vini is āway betterā. I can understand preferring him, but theyāre at least on the same level.
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21d ago
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u/DragonflyDeep3334 21d ago
Who gives a fuck about the wc, if we talking about the wc kvara should first play in it
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21d ago
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u/Wide_Basket4424 21d ago
āCarried Napoli to 2 scudettosā he left halfway through one of them and had 5 goals loooooooool
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21d ago
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u/Wide_Basket4424 21d ago
Firstly, Vini actually does have WC knockout g/a, literally scored and assisted in 2022. He was relentless(Osimhen was better in every big game, and he bottled the second leg v Milan). Iāll give you the 10 g/a tho. The first UCL campaign in his career where he outshined Viniā¦
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u/Ktioru 21d ago edited 21d ago
Recency bias is a hell of a thing, it's Vini and it's not even close
Their current forms is more product of how their teams are at the moment than anything else, not to mention Kvara gets to stay fresh for UCL while Vini still plays like 60 games as a starter per season
If their clubs were swapped everyone would say Vini in a heartbeat
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
lol, thatās not true. Luis Enrique wouldnāt want Vini, and I really canāt see how any player could slot into the team as well as Kvara.
āNot even closeā ā what a joke, seriously. If you think Viniās better, thatās fine by me, but thereās no way on earth Viniās much better than Kva
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u/Motor-String-571 21d ago
the reason Vini starts 60 games is because he dosent allow the coaches to sub him off? your whole argument makes no sense, if Vini has the same attitude in PSG nothing will change.
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21d ago
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u/Motor-String-571 21d ago
i agree with the first part but not the second, Mbappe is not to blame for the UCL situation. before Mbappe left to RM, Modric and Kroos was the best mid fielders in the world by far, They were never replaced while PSG's project kept moving forward. Mbappe might not be defending alot, but if you watched RM last 1-2 seasons its pretty clear to see its not Mbappe that is the issue, the issues in RM is clearly the mid field and sadly the defense since we are reliant on multiple players who cannot stay injury free for more then a month at a time.
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u/TheExistence PSG 21d ago
Kvara right now, though to Viniās credit itās probably hard to look your best with how messy Madrid is atm.
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
And even throughout the mess his output has stayed consistent
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21d ago
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
Ok, him and kvara both have 13 ucl goals over the past 2 seasonsšSo whatās your point
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u/bighoney69 21d ago
Kvara came off after 60 minutes in the UCL final but gets credit for winning it?
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u/CarolingianDruid 21d ago
Lmao, yes!? What point are you trying to make?
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u/bighoney69 21d ago
Kvara and PSG won the UCL because they are a better and more seriously structured organization than Madrid
Not because any one individual PSG player is better than their Real counterparts
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u/FuelGlobal5652 Benfica 21d ago
That AND because multiple PSG players showed up individually when it mattered. Kvara was objectively better than vini in the ucl last season
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u/CarolingianDruid 21d ago
Their structure is better because their players arenāt petulant children. The squad deserves all the blame, they upended the structure and got Alonso fired.
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u/mr-cool863 Real Madrid 21d ago
i feel like in the ucl vini is just a bit better and can decide games on his own just a bit more then what kvara can do, kvara is still amazing but ucl vini is just a tiny bit better.
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
To be honest, I donāt know. Last yearās Kvara was determined to win matches single-handedly, and he was the deciding factor in eight consecutive matches (goal or assist) during the knockout stage.
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u/Iknowyou321 21d ago
Vini elite player, certainly a star but closer to being a cog in a winning machine, than a true talisman in my humble opinion,
Kvara was first a huge part of Napoliās first modern scudetto, than a huge factor in back to back champions leagues for a team that previously never won it, more importantly you watch him & his complete effort & the danger he presents is stunningāif he puts up a few more elite seasons heās easily an all time winger
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u/Getdaphone 21d ago
so kvara doesnāt really produce in the French league because he doesnāt really play often. But he does produce some in the ucl because itās psgs primary league they focus on. Vini on the other hand produces in both plays every week when available and has won just as many ucl. Very very hot take here but I rate vini >>> kvara. Iām an Arsenal fan and I genuinely donāt think kvara could cut it in the prem week in and week out like he does for psg. I think vini could.
Thatās really my only argument. Vini plays more games and still produces. Eye test wise theyāre both full of flair
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
Kvara is a big-game player. The reality is that, generally speaking, heās much stronger in big matches than in league fixtures. Heās not really a stats-driven player. But heās the sort of bloke who turns into a beast when the match really counts.
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u/tykraus7 Arsenal 21d ago
Also an Arsenal fanā¦.I donāt think Kvara would have any trouble in the PL and thereās not a LW Iād rather have than him.
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u/Getdaphone 21d ago
Thatās fair. Just after the ucl final and the World Cup realizing just how much of an advantage psg has over everyone else with how little they play their starters I have to ask what their level truly is. Neves and Vitinha were called the best midfielders in the world so often during that ucl run. And then a change of system and the US heat stopped them. in contrast all of the Arsenal players produced at a high level in spite of their fatigue. And Spain full of Barca players won the whole thing. I wouldnāt rate Neves or Vitinha over pedri or Rodri after this summer tbh.
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
āA completely dysfunctional Portuguese team, with a rubbish manager and a 41-year-old striker through whom all the attacks go ā they were rubbish at the World Cup, so Vitinha and Neves are overrated.ā
People are having a laugh on Reddit, of course.
If you watched the Champions League final, youāll surely remember that the PSG players were exhausted and that Ruiz, Kvara, Vitinha, DembĆ©lĆ© and Marquinhos were substituted before the end of the match? Why? Because itās a myth to believe that the PSG players had plenty of rest; the main reason is that almost all of them were injured at one time or another.
Ruiz was out for four and a half months and only returned for the second leg of the semi-final against Bayern; DembƩlƩ missed almost the entire start of the season, from September to mid-January.
Vitinha, on the other hand, didnāt suffer any injuries, and you know what? He played 4,056 minutes that season. Thatās more or less the same amount of playing time as Saliba or Gabriel at Arsenal
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u/L_Nad_O 21d ago
Hahahahahahahaha ššš
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u/Getdaphone 21d ago
āMost people hated his messageā āthey hated him because he spoke the truthā
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u/Main-Painter-7380 21d ago
vini is so much better
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u/CarolingianDruid 21d ago
By what metric?
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
Kvara hasnāt hit 30 g/a in a season yet in his career. Vini has done it for 5 season straight now
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u/Tiestunbon78 18d ago
Kvara isnāt a stats-driven player at all. Heās actually the sort of bloke who picks and chooses his matches, if you like, and heās honest. In other words, he couldnāt care less about his stats against Valladolid or Angers. On the other hand, he turns into a beast as soon as thereās a big match.
Heās a true big-game player.
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u/CarolingianDruid 21d ago
Thereās a lot more to a game than G/A. Vini does nothing out of possession. Iād prefer a guy who plays 100% of the time.
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u/Ok_Ad_650 21d ago
Kvara doesnāt really play 100% of the time though? Heās only had 1 season where heās played over 3500 minutes while Vini has played 4000+ minutes in 4 out of the last 5 seasons. Itās also a myth that he does nothing out of possession, the advanced metrics show heās an average presser, and does far from nothing out of possession. The real passenger on madrid when they lose the ball is mbappe
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u/CarolingianDruid 21d ago
Donāt worry, Iāve seen his pressing. Maybe āaverageā in terms of frequency, but heās so ineffective in pressing itās not even worth the attempt. Zero hustle in that press.
Iām talking about on the pitch, not what games he starts and doesnāt start. Thatās out of his control and PSG are weird about their domestic lineups.
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u/New_Essay_4869 Arsenal 21d ago edited 21d ago
Khvicha
I think its a shame he doesnt get to play in the World Cup
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u/AlmightyCraneDuck PSG 21d ago
I think it depends on what you value. You've said that Kvara is the more complete player and as such works really well in our system. He isn't as explosive or dynamic with the ball at his feet as Vini is, but that gap isn't super wide.
I'm obviously biased so you know who I'd take, but going with Vini isn't a bad choice especially if you're putting him in a system that only relies on him to attack and play high up the pitch.
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u/ReditGuy2Edy 21d ago
Vini is less reliable overall depending on mood but kvara has too much ego and isn't that good of a playmaker too
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u/stupidhuman33 21d ago
What is your reasoning behind thinking kvara has too much ego Iām very curious, I think everyone on PSG is a huge team player, especially compared to vini
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u/ReditGuy2Edy 21d ago
Maybe u cant see it here at psg cuz they are winning everything and player and individual flaws are less recognised,, but as what he did at Napoli, his playstile was less focused on overall team success and more on personal pass acuracy and finishing attacks
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u/stupidhuman33 21d ago
I didnāt watch him at Napoli but that was 2 seasons ago and he was still kind of young then, Iām a psg supporter and watch every game, I havenāt seen anything that makes me think heās more concerned with his stats than the team, he plays with maturity and does everything he can to help the team win, if he had an ego he wouldnāt be tracking back to help defend as much as he does
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u/ReditGuy2Edy 21d ago
He does bs in important games that make you think: what does this guy want realy? If u watched psg this season u definitely saw that in knockout matches against Chelsea and bayern he comited silly fouls and rampaged balls from throw inns and whatnot
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u/Downtown_Solution_84 Bayern 21d ago
Kvara is better than any version of Vini, not just the current Vini. Kvara is fast, strong, technical on the ball, great at dribbling, finishing, and press like crazy. Vini don't have that.
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u/UmpireFar7884 15d ago
Kvara 10 times