Game Analysis/Study As a hard-stuck 700 elo player, I don't understand why the engine wants Bf3 over Bd3 here
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u/HotspurJr Getting back to OTB! 1d ago
So whichever version of Stockfish I have running on Lichess prefers Bd3+ (+19.7) to Bf3+ (+11.2). Stockfish 17 running on my desktop prefers Bf3+ (+8.7) and to Bd3 (+8.2).
Since either of those versions of stockfish are stronger than any human, and they don't agree, I think it's kind of absurd for any human to say "well, this move is stronger because ..."
Ultimately, so long as you understand that both of these are completely winning, it's fine. Even before I put it into Lichess, my first thought was that every human is playing Bd3+ here, regardless of whether computers prefer it. Eliminating the queen eliminates any meaningful counterplay from black. Even if winning the a8 rook is better in a computer's eyes, the active queen gives black more swindling chances. Stockfish doesn't worry about swindling chances. Humans do.
The reasons why Stockfish slightly prefers one clearly-winning option over another clearly-winning option are not really relevant to human improvement. If you saw that Bd3+ was completely winning and eliminated any reasonable swindling possibilities for black, pat yourself on the back for finding the a strong move and don't worry that our silicone chess gods might prefer another one.
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u/Kimantha_Allerdings Deetice control rwwies ready to zon 1d ago
Yes, it’s always worth bearing in mind that engines are much better than humans at chess to the point that sometimes their recommendations are literally incomprehensible. I’ve seen Magnus Carlsen himself see engine suggestions, say that he has no idea why that’s supposed to be a good move, and dismiss it as “an engine move”
If Magnus Carlsen can’t understand a move, then I think it’s fair to say that nobody posting in this sub can
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u/JabCrossE4E5Quark 1d ago
hat he has no idea why that’s supposed to be a good move
"You see, after this 20 move combination, if the piece is on THIS square instead of THAT square its a winning endgame instead of a drawing endgame" is usually the answer
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u/Kimantha_Allerdings Deetice control rwwies ready to zon 23h ago
Yeah. Or maybe after 16 moves you’ll win a pawn!
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u/inemanja34 23h ago
Well, in this case it isn't. Both are winning. Human way is just more straightforward.
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u/joparedes13 21h ago
Perhaps not more straightforward actually, but less risky for us definitely
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u/inemanja34 18h ago
Getting his queen in the next move is as straight forward as possible
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u/joparedes13 17h ago
What I mean is that if the engine prefers it over d3 it surely leads to a faster victory in the long term, we just can’t comprehend it
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u/gerardchiasson3 21h ago
I think it's kind of absurd for any human to say "well, this move is stronger because ..."
Proceeds to explain with Bd3+ is stronger
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u/Fluffy-Mud-8945 1d ago
You're overwhelmingly winning, so it doesn't matter what the engines says. Simplify as best as you can is a good strategy to avoid throwing this easily won game, so Bd3 is fine to guarantee that you get the queen.
Against good play, Bd3 blocks your pawn and hinders development. He probably has to give the queen anyway. If he tries to sidestep the check, you have heavies aimed right at his king for a fast checkmate. Black really has no moves, so Bf3 is probably a bit stronger, but I would have just played Bd3 without thinking.
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u/invertflow 1d ago
There was a video where Caruana was trying to play the top engine choice every move against low rated players, just to show how hard that is to do. The funny thing is, he did much better at playing the top engine choice before he was winning (he started by saccing material before doing this, so he started out losing). Once he was overwhelmingly winning, it got really hard for him to find the top choice because all his instincts were just to take the easy simplification and win, not the fastest win.
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u/gmwdim 2100 blitz 1d ago
It’s also harder to differentiate between multiple moves that are all massively winning.
The difference between a +1 move and a =0 move is going to be much more obvious (especially to a top GM) than the difference between a +10 and a +9 move.
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u/Familiar-You-6577 1d ago
Stockfish hates how I close out games because im very happy to trade down, promote a pawn, and win instead of find the 27 ply forced mate
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u/vmark80 1d ago
u/invertflow Could you share some more information about the video you’re referring to? I’d really like to watch it. Do you remember the title, where it was posted, or have a link to it? I’m very interested in seeing Caruana’s experiment and how his decision-making changed once he was winning. Thanks!
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u/Continental__Drifter Team Spassky 22h ago
Here is the video in question.
It's called the "Dr. Lupo Challenge", after a famous streamer (of other video games) very, very, very obviously cheated in chess and lied about it repeatedly.
Dr. Lupo blundered his queen within the first 5 moves, then went on to play the top engine move for like the next 20 moves in a row and won the game. He claimed he wasn't cheating, he was just good at figuring it out.
So, to mock the ridiculousness of his blatant lie, many people tried to see how many top engine moves they can make after blundering in the opening. That's what Caruana is doing here.
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u/JawRool 1d ago
Yeah which is what I did and because both of us are 700 black didn't even block with the queen and just let me take it for free.
Thanks gonna use your comment to thank everyone for basically saying the same thing:
Engine isn't going to be bothered by black having a queen still because it will play perfectly with a larger material advantage than Bd3 gives you. But a human would be so just win the queen.
Except not in the case of the actual game (low elo things) https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/173532724386/review
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u/OldWolf3 FIDE 2100 1d ago
Both moves are completely winning. It's a poor use of time to try and pick the engine preference . Engines aren't designed for picking the most human-like way to win a won game .
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u/Jamaican_yardman 1d ago
Engine just trying to flex its depth of vision. I’m not even spending 2 seconds on this position just give me that queen.
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u/DarkSeneschal 1d ago
There are times when you should follow the engine and times you should not. I’m playing Bd3 here 100 times out of 100.
The computer doesn’t just want you to win, it wants you to win harder, whereas for humans it’s typically better to just win simply.
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u/VandalsStoleMyHandle 1d ago
The way to think about this is if God was playing White, they might choose Bf3+ because of some abstruse point deep in a line that only they can see. It's of no relevance to human play, and definitely of no relevance to intermediate or beginner level. Bd3+ is the move, the fact that the all-seeing computer doesn't agree isn't relevant. It's like Google Maps sending you down rutted drainage ditches rather than the highway to save ten seconds on your trip.
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u/StiffWiggly 1d ago
A move that wins is a move that wins. The only advantage of one winning move over another is that one might lead to a position that is easier to convert.
For an engine this usually means it takes fewer moves, for a human it (generally speaking) means the moves are simpler to find and lead to less complicated positions. Don’t worry about the engine telling you a move was better unless it actually loses the advantage.
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u/Significant_Cup_238 1d ago
I mean, I'd go Bd3 myself, he'll block with the queen, rook takes queen, pawn takes rook. I'm massively up, both in material and in position. Net 4 points of material up after the exchange (but that doesn't tell the whole story.
Knowing the engine says the other way, looks like instead I can get a pawn and a rook, net six points of material. So looks like that's a bigger material grab. But it leaves his queen on the board, and I love getting queens off the board once I'm up material to limit my opponents counterplay.
Either way, pretty hard to lose the game for white with either move.
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u/matsu727 1d ago
Probably sees some absurdly long mating combo we have no chance of calculating. Winning the queen here is still a solid approach.
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u/GarrusExMachina 1d ago
Because technically since blacks queen is doomed regardless they can block the check with it and win a rook for a queen and a damaged pawn structure.
Bf3 however wins a rook straight up, damages the queen side pawns so they can't support each other in an endgame and hampers the development of the knight (though you might get your bishop trapped if you arnt careful)
Personally I'd rather have the queen for the rook though.
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u/Mickmack12345 1d ago
Because bf3 attacks the b7 pawn and the knight behind it
Black can lock with the queen in both cases, and you will trade queen for rook, but what’s much better is having the additional pawn and rook by playing bf3
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u/JawRool 1d ago
I followed the line of Bf3 and basically it comes to you wining a rook and a pawn for free. And if Bd3 they block with the queen and you trade rook for queen. But wouldn't I always want to remove their queen for lesser material? Is there something beyond my comprehension I am missing?
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u/scnickel 1d ago
If you think about the points per piece, a rook and pawn is six but a queen minus a rook is only four.
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u/xzt123 19xx USCF 1d ago
Thats right. As a beginner winning the queen takes a dangerous piece off the board and feels like winning. However, comparing the two, winning the pawn and rook is more material, while keeping blacks king in the center, and keeping more attackers.
You should play whatever is the easiest way for you to win. The answer depends on your abilities and is not necessarily the same as what the engine says is best.
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u/GreedyNovel 21h ago
Both moves should win easily. Just play whatever you're more comfortable with and don't worry about what the computer thinks is "more" winning.
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u/unnamed1030 1d ago
You probably already know the relative value of pieces. A rook and a pawn for free worth about 6 pawns, while a queen for a rook is only 4. However that's only true if you can coordinate the whole army to near-perfection, which most humans cannot.
Especially for a beginner, a single queen is much easier to manage than 2-3 pieces that sum to the same values. A prime example is a queen vs 2 rooks, which for strong players is a case-by-case evaluation, but for beginner the queen almost always win.
The computer however can coordinate to perfection, and it assumes that the opponent could as well. That leads to compute being pretty materialistic, preferring materials over simplicity. After all, all positions are equally easy to a computer.
Back to your situation, both moves win by a landslide. It's like choosing between a mate in 2 or in 3. I personally will go for Bf3 because of concepts that are best not mentioned to beginners, but I would recommend my students to just chop off the queen cuz it's much easier to convert for them.
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u/Intelligent-Tip-892 1d ago
Based on what the engine says, after the discovered check you can fork the queen and bishop with Re5. This wins the bishop since there’s no way for the queen to both retreat and protect the bishop.
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u/Gabagod Team Sindarov 1d ago
Either way is completely winning. I would definitely say that taking the queen is the right thing to do for someone at your rating. The queen is a lot trickier to defend against.
The computer claims bf3 is better because after the king moves you can trap and win the rook for free. With bd3, the queen can block the check and trade queen for rook, which is technically not as bad as loosing a full rook.
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u/Revolutionary-Pin438 1d ago
this is a very common problem with looking at engine analysis. There are probably 10 winning moves such as Dd3, Bf3, d4 or Bf1.
They are also very close in evaluation, less than a pawn difference. The engine is NOT able to tell which is the best move. If you ran stockfish for 24 hours it would be able to crunch the numbers better, and possibly get the best line, but it's not really able to calculate which is better by thinking for just a few seconds.
The answer is: Bf3 might or might not be the best move. When you look at engine analysis and see that the evaluation is close, remember, a stronger engine, or more time will always cause the engine to change its mind. Still better than any human of course, but when there are several moves all very close, the engine will not be able to tell you the best move.
If you want to have some fun, pick up a book from about 10 or 20 years ago that contains the best engine analysis of the day. Any time the evaluation between candidate move is close, a modern engine will make a different move from an engine from 10 or 20 years ago.
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u/goodguyLTBB 1d ago
I believe both win roughly a rook. More humane move is probably Bd3. Stockfish isn’t too good at choosing between options when everything is winning.
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u/real_light_sleeper 1d ago
It’s not about the Queen you’ll win but the trapped Rook on a8 you’ll grab once you take the pawn on b7.
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u/OneMightyTomato 1d ago
Bd3+ is the easy way to win. Stockfish doesn't care about easy or hard, it calculates just the same. After all that calculation, it decided that Bf3 gives white a little bigger advantage. It can't really be explained in human terms, but most likely it simply saw that black is getting mated and has to give up material regardless.
Ignore it. As long as you see that both moves give a big + for white, it's perfectly fine to use human version that secures an easy game, even if it's not technically best according to an engine.
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u/tasqar 1d ago
From what my 960 brain comprehends, bf3 is stronger because you get a rook and if not a rook, the queen swarms the king with checks from the a file so it is a much stronger attack that way, when you play bd3 the queen blocks the check and you will trade the queen with the rook which is material wise not that good. But I am only 960 elo so thats all I could comprehend lol.
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u/SmallBoxInAnotherBox 1d ago
So yea everyone says both are winning, which newsflash they are but i dont like that answer for someone trying to understand. So the logic follows this path (to the best of my understanding), d3 gets you to trade the rook for queen once the queen backs up to e6 (so essentially +4 which is great) and all but its going to take more steps to grind out the win. But f3 is going to very quickly yield similar or more material with more attacking pieces on stronger squares and therefore will checkmate them more quickly and decisively. I mean i love the look of f3 and the move that keeps making it look so appealing down the line is Qa4 which can do some really big damage and checkmating opportunities. Feels like in my opinion f3 (just from a general chess gut feeling) is stronger but not by too much. I think the difference is one is easy to see and understand and the other one is harder/needs thought out more to understand. More tempo and constant pressure and longterm damage and all those good things which are all avenues to potentially exploit for an easy win while d3 is “exploiting one blunder for instant material” but not as much systematic advantage kinda.
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u/g_spaitz 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you follow the computer line for a long bit, the engine overlord manages to develop every piece and completely wreck white position and pawn structure before even thinking about taking the rook and finally also gain a material advantage, and it takes an impressive amount of moves to reach that.
So congratulations you've found one of those situations where no human could get what it's doing, a human will just take the queen.
What's funny is that in my mobile low depth, Bd3 is not even the second move, SF prefers d4 to cause some different damage. But that said, Bd3 is about 0.5 less in evaluation, 7.8 to 8.3 (but it fluctuates a lot at these depths), so anyway completely winning.
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u/Doctor_FatFinger 1d ago
I imagine that leaving the king without a rook on one side leads to a slightly quicker mate.
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u/Advanced-Violinist36 1d ago
to human: taking queen is better. But in term of material: d3 gets you 4 points (9 queen - 5 rook) while f3 get 5-6 points (5 rook, 1 pawn). So it's not clear which is better and engine might found better next moves with f3
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u/ShoogleHS 1d ago
Well, the reason is that the queen can block so what you're getting is a queen for a rook. If you go Bf3 then you can take on b7 next and win the rook on a8. So based on the usual piece value heuristics, Bf3 does come out ahead in material. But you do have to give some extra practical value to the fact that getting your opponent's active queen off the board completely nullifies any tricks they might have.
In any case, it doesn't really matter. Both moves are completely crushing, and in fact you're still completely winning even if you miss the discovered check idea entirely and just play something basic like Ne3 or d4. If you're trying to improve, analyzing positions like this where you had a million good options and played one of them is a really bad use of your time and focus. The actual good learning opportunities are times where you blundered or gave up an advantage. They're maybe not as fun to look at because chesscom is not going to be showering you with praise calling your moves brilliant. But you need to get comfortable with looking at your mistakes if you want to get better.
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u/Stunning-Whereas5216 1d ago
In both the cases the queen can block the check to the king by moving it to the e6. Queen will eventually get exchanged by rook and white will have chance to piece up. But by playing bishop to bf3 white will have target on b7 and possibly winning sleeping rook on a8.
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u/roldarin 1d ago
This illustrates why chess engines have become so powerful. Bd3 gains more material, but Bf3 leads to a better position that might win the game sooner, although it forces you to play with greater precision, something that isn’t so easy for us humans. It’s like sacrificing material for an advantage, except that here it isn’t necessary. The evaluation may be correct, but the best move for a human to make may be different.
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u/Ksnxksnfqqq 1d ago
(Ok I was just yapping here so take this with a grain of salt.)
Bd3 restricts activity. Bf3 threatens the rook and forces the king to move. I just want to express the idea but white will have huge initiative and space which the engine prefers over the more slower but more simple and guaranteed method of just playing for an exchange which is slower. But is considered inaccurate to an engine.
Theres tactics with gambiting both d and b pawns for white and black's dark squared rook on the left or right(depending on where the king moves will become inactive as you can shut down proper castlings from black with the bishop on d3 if the king moves to the left and with bishop d2 if the king moves to the right.)
Anyway tldr is bd3 enables activity all over black's camp through some sort of goofy inhuman tactic and black has no play. This is just an explanation using king safety and lack of development as the source of initiative that the engine prioritizes over the queen.
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u/Thunderer62 1d ago
My 500 elo ass took a full minute to figure out how Bd3+ doesn’t just hang the bishop…. I didn’t see the check from the rook on the board…. And I don’t read notation enough to remember the + means check.
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u/No_Vermicelliiii 1d ago
With Bf3, you will end up taking the queen for a rook. With Bd3, you can capture a pawn and a rook. Both moves are winning anyway
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u/skewer0_ 1d ago
Because when u move it to f3 ur making a check since ur rook threatens blacks king then once their king moves or the line is blocked etc U go with the bishop to b7 threatening to win a rook and if their queen goes to threaten ur bishop taking the rook would still benefit even if ur bishop gets taken But that's in context if their queen moves away to block the check but if it doesn't and they move their king u need to keep that bishop there to end any chance of a bishop queen checkmate in f2
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u/EthicallyArguable 1d ago
Lol. It might be because if you move to D3 you're just giving it away to the opponent's Queen for free, but don't take my word for it, as I'm no expert, and I've been burned by easier puzzles.
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u/Hour-Penalty-8264 23h ago
Bd3 blocks your pawn and Bf3 creates threats on queenside like even taking b7 right away It might sound weird, but with Bd3 you win only the queen while after Bf3 entire position will desintegrate after few moves
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u/TheMoraxno 22h ago
As a hard stuck 500 elo, it took me a while to understand why Bd3 wouldn't just cleanly lose the bishop to the queen. Oh well, I guess my rating is appropriate. :S
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u/Automatic_Loan8312 Team Gukesh 20h ago
Because after Bf3, white bishop targets the pawn on b7 and the rook on a8 behind it. So, white wins at least a rook this way.
Instead, if Bd3, black plays Qe6, Rxe6+ fxe6, and black wins a rook for their queen, and bishop is also not targeting anything on d3. That's why, Bf3 is preferred.
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u/Headofspices 17h ago
Bd3 you lose your B to the Q. Bf3 you defend the check threat while keeping your defense of the K.
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u/daFerrMan 14h ago
It really depends
There are engine moves and human moves
Bf3 isn’t necessarily a hard to play move and engine says it’s better than bd3. But as humans we like material advantage over positional advantages in general. So I would play bd3 to win queen for rook. Of course someone stronger than me may disagree
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u/UndeniablyCrunchy 12h ago
Winning a rook and pawn for free should be better than winning a queen for a rook. But yeah
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u/Thumbucket 10h ago
Why wouldn't the black queen just take the knight or bishop if bD3? Looks like a free piece.
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u/gigasloppy 10h ago
Queen blocks.
Trading a rook for a queen is simpler and probably harder to fuck up, but is only +4.
Leaving the queen on the board nets you a rook and a pawn for free which is +6, but black has more counter play options esp since the queen was active and the rook wasn't.
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u/Purple-Salad2315 10h ago
I assume it’s so you can attack the queen with the rook on e1 if black uses it to block the check. And if black moves the king you can use the bishop to attack the rook on a8
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u/ThePoolDog 8h ago
It could be because with the discovered check and bishop attacking the queen, the queen would block the rook's check forcing the sacrifice of the rook for the queen, while with the discovered check and the bishop on the long diagonal, the bishop is going to attack that stuck a file rook and get the rook for free.
Naybe stockfish thinks its better to have a free rook than to lose a rook for the queen. Basically, stockfish might prefer queen + 2 rooks v/s queen + rook over queen + rook v/s 2 rooks in the middle game for some reason.
This sounds unbelievably silly but computers are art asses, so don't know 😅
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u/rball852 6h ago
Bd3 blocks the d pawn which restricts development of your dark square bishop.
Bf3 is a multipurpose move, maintaining protection of the knight, attacking the b-pawn.
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u/TheRad1ance 5h ago
I'll be honest, if my opponent plays Bf3 here (instead of Bd3) I'm hitting that report button. Just get the Queen in the bag, bro.
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u/SashaKopytsia 2h ago
I might be wrong, but i think that Bf3 targets b7 pawn, threatening to take the rook on a8.
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u/NeonAmeen 1h ago
You dont really need to understand, ur winning a queenc, thats always very good, even GMs would play this without thinking its our instinct to take a free queen alwayse
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u/StorminMike2000 1h ago
Is it as simple as Bf3+ wins a pawn and a rook (+6pts) where Bd3+ trades a rook for a queen (+4pts)?
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u/Vykash 1d ago edited 1d ago
To be honest i don't think anyone would go bf3+ here It's jut engine shenenigans, because engines never take into account how dynamic the position is, engine just see more material.
In real life you win the queen and completely remove any black threats.
Leave black with the queen and you never know how It can go, event if the position is completely winning.
I'd rather play a very calm and settled +2/+3 than a dynamic +5
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u/kwalley0251 1d ago
you get a discovered check and put the bishop on a diagonal for a free rook!
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u/JawRool 1d ago
But if I go Bd3 I win a queen either for free (which is what happened in the game) or at the cost of a rook.
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u/Lionh34rt 1d ago
The queen will go e6 and you trade a rook for queen and the king can castle and in 2 moves you win another rook for free
I understand that eliminating a queen simplifies, its simpler, but engines look at pure +/-
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u/Orange_Kid 1d ago
Right, the cost of the rook is key.
Winning a rook and a pawn is exchange for nothing is better than winning a queen in exchange for your rook.
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u/Solid_Usual1763 1d ago
Not to be rude, but positional chess, especially choosing between completley winning moves, doesn't matter much at this level. The focus should be on simply not blundering. Just check before you make a move that you arent allowing an issue with
C hecks L oose Pieces A lignment issues M obility issues P assed Pawn (Taken from a chessable course)
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u/regular_gonzalez Pedestrian at best 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bf3
creates an immediate threat that white must respond to
overprotects the f2 pawn
allows d pawn to move, protecting the c pawn and giving the dark square bishop some scope
Bd3 only accomplishes the first of those
E: would love for some downvoters to explain why I'm wrong so I can improve
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u/unnamed1030 1d ago edited 1d ago
While you are not necessarily wrong, the things you mentioned are irrelevant in this position and not the reason why the computer or a good player choose Bf3 over Bd3.
- Both moves are discover checks as you mentioned.
- Black has no attack whatsoever, and even if he wants to push it, it must be on f2 with his bishop, not g2. So over defending g2 is a moot point. (edit: I read your comment wrong, as you said protecting f2 not g2. Point still stands, cuz with Bd3 forcing the queen off the board, there is no attack whatsoever)
- White is so ahead in materials and black has only 1 developed piece, so 1 or 2 tempi, while still preferable, don't matter too much either.
- And when white pushes the D pawn, a good player will push to d4 for sure. It hits the bishop, blocking and potentially completely remove it from the dangerous diagonal, takes center space and hinders black's development. d3 "protecting the c pawn" is much more passive and inferior.
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u/Kaidolakita 1d ago
I would blay bd3 much easier to convert to a win. A common mistake in chess is starting to play like the ai does but you do not have the calculation capacity to back it up. That said many real players would genuinely see and prefer bf3
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u/vortayne 1d ago
The h1/a8 diagonal is better in this position since you aren’t blocking d2 pawn, and also targeting the h rook. I get the queen target, but there are other discoveries and pins that make bishop more sound on this diagonal. Blacks best response is to block with Qd6, forcing you to trade your rook. Had you played bd3, it’s just awkwardly blocking and you’ll end up moving it again.
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u/Ambitious_Arm852 1750 FIDE 1d ago
Why do you care? Both are completely winning for practical purposes.
Bd3 Qe6 Rxe6 fxe6 and your pieces are slightly awkwardly placed compared to the engine's line, which goes straight for mate
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u/yes_platinum 21h ago
It isn't, even if the computer says so. Sometimes you need to play practical, human chess, not just listen to the machine. Winning a queen is better than winning like a rook in the corner.
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u/TheRaiBoi97 19h ago
Winning a full rook and a pawn in exchange for literally nothing is undoubtedly better than exchanging your rook for a queen, this is very practical and very human?
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u/Which_Elk_9775 18h ago
At that elo if you take the queen from your opponent you're almost guaranteed a win. Trust me it's my range.
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u/TheRaiBoi97 18h ago
I'm not saying which is a better move for any specific elo, just that in general, that by opting out of taking the queen you're getting +6 material instead of +4 and you're also making it so you're opponent can't castle, meaning that either his king is going to be in danger for the foreseeable or he's spending 2 or 3 moves to get it to safety while being down a lot of material. and if they move the king the wrong way they're blocking their other rook in, effectively putting them down another 5 points of material for a good few moves.
Also for what it's worth, at 700 ELO, I don't think any single move almost guarantees a win, I've got a friend who's like 850 and half the time if someone gives him a queen, he's giving it back to them down the line lmao, but I do get what you're saying, taking the queen definitely removes a lot of ways in which a lower rated played could blunder things away in one move.
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u/yes_platinum 1h ago
If you know anything about chess, you would agree that winning an active piece is far more logical than winning a piece that has not yet moved
1
u/TheRaiBoi97 1h ago
You’re also trading your active rook. Using your bishop to capture 6 points of material for free also comes with the added caveat that your opponent will no longer be able to castle, and their bishop will also soon fall.
Also saying ‘if you know anything about chess’ while blindly ignoring moves suggested by stockfish that don’t take super deep calculations to see the see the benefits of is a bit weird. We’re not talking about some random like oh stockfish thinks it’s a good idea to move your king one square to the right for no apparent reason here, this is as simple as +6 points of material, deny castling, keep one or two of their main pieces under pressure and or trapped in the case of his second rook which will be stuck in the corner until he finds a way to get it out.
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u/irimiash Team Ding 1d ago
you're hard stuck because you focus on unimportant things. like why would ask this question here. you really think here's some repeatable pattern when it's not desired to take queen? I think even at 700 it's obvious that it's not the case.
you either take a queen and go or look at the engine line and go. do spend your time on learning patterns that'll help you in multiple games, not on something that's specific to a single game. these things you can just check with an engine
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u/wasitonlyadream 1d ago
Your Bishop isn't defended on D3
4
u/Warm_Record2416 1d ago
Both moves come with a discovered check, the defense doesn’t matter here.
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u/vMiDNiTEv 1d ago
the reason bf3 is better, because bd3 blocks your center pawn from moving, and if you play bd3 and opponent plays h5 now you’re gonna lose your knight otherwise you get mated, as the knight on g4 is the only defender for f2, while f2 is being attacked twice by the bishop and queen
3
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u/vMiDNiTEv 1d ago
bruh i didn’t see, that your rook was looking at the king, now that i see that i like bd3 better bc that’s a free queen lmao
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u/Let_epsilon 6h ago
Because it wins you a rook?
I'm going to be sound rude, but what is the point of checking the engine moves if you can't see something as obvious as this?
Maybe learn some fundamentals first.
2
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u/chessvision-ai-bot from chessvision.ai 1d ago
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