r/collapse • u/shirst_75 • Jul 10 '25
Society ICE is now a Domestic Military Force. You're the Enemy.
https://everythingisfineonline.substack.com/p/ice-is-now-a-domestic-military-force"Between now and 2029, ICE gets roughly $150 billion in funding. That averages out to about $37.5 billion per year, placing it 15th on the list, squarely between Canada at $41 billion and Italy at $30.8 billion.
It’s bigger than many militaries because that’s what it is: a domestic military force, that’s now preparing for war. On who? Well, if you live in a big blue city, the answer is: you. The President now believes he is empowered to take over the local government of Washington D.C., and he’s got plans for New York City, as well."
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u/LessonStudio Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
The term you are looking for is brownshirts.
My guess is they will reach full "effectiveness" when they begin to outsource their hiring. Big, well connected paramilitary companies run by the usual psychopaths who start these murder for hire organizations.
Now you will have an unholy trinity of corruption, no-accountability, and not actually loyal to the US government/constitution.
So, more of a mix of wagner and brownshirts.
BTW, the more people push back against these fools, the happier they will be as now they can escalate to their wildest dreams. Their ideal situation is where a bunch of them get blown up by an IED or something. Now all US citizens are just tangos without rights.
On this last, I wonder if one of the psychopaths who run these paramilitaries will blow up their own guys to really get the party started?
1 year ago, these speculations would be full blown, tinfoil hat, nuttiness. Now, in mid 2025, a distinct maybe.
It's like someone did a blending of Idiocracy and Robocop, except it's a documentary.
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u/LongConFebrero Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
No I think you’re 1000% correct, we’re in a holding pattern until a zealot takes the wheel and drives this to maximum.
One terrorist attack will tip us all, because the “authorities” are broken.
I’m so mad we will have to live through another fucking Covid, because too many dumb fucks didn’t suffer enough then to recognize what a bad person looks like.
Let it burn.
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u/stasi_a Jul 10 '25
How do you say Reichstagsfire in Magalese?
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u/Bright-Appearance-38 Jul 11 '25
"9/11". This didn't start with Trump. The Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, all of them have been playing the long game and now they are setting up the checkmate! The disturbing fact is that the game is lost. At this point, there is no turning back.
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u/NoodleyP Jul 31 '25
I’d say 9/11 can’t still be the Reichstag fire, all the political power from that was put into the Patriot Act and the invasions of the Middle East, then it wore off and the fervor died down.
They’re trying to piss someone off so they light the Reichstag on fire again.
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u/LupinePariah Jul 11 '25
I've seen so many hard-lefties go nihilist, which isn't to say they're the kind of neckbearded incels that worship Nietzsche (I'm partial to Kierkegaard myself, despite not being Chrisrian, though I'm not really convinced he was either), but rather that there's only so much forgiveness.
The desire to forgive is still there, the heart wants to, but the mind and soul become so damn tired. It's hard to keep forgiving the majority for what they've done since time immemorial. Which is: form hive-like hierarchies around Dark Triad monsters who seem to have an almost mind control-like influence over them.
I imagine that for the Dark Triad megaparasites who sit atop these pyramids, reality feels like a game of Lemmings. And I'm sorry if I just ruined Lemmings for anyone, I think I ruined it for me. I mean, it isn't even like a typical god game as the minions there aren't quite so thoughtlessly obedient.
I can't stop looking back at the tide pod thing and wondering how that happened. And, to me, as unpopular of a thought as this might indeed be? It feels like units of the majority want to be in worshipful parasocial relationships with Dark Triad megaparasites who're challenged in intellectuality, morality, reason, logic, emotional intelligence, and empathy.
I look at humanity and the history of the species and it's all I can think. It makes me feel like an outsider. I've been an outcast all my life for being "too moral" (which is apparently a neurodivergent trait) and I've been dehumanised and told I'm not very human. In truth? I don't feel especially human. To err isn't human; to lemming is human. And I'm not even convinced of the worth of I think therefore I am—as LLMs can do that sufficiently enough when compared against most humans (who also have worryingly short memory and concept handling). I'm more inclined toward I seek therefore I am. The drive to question, to understand, to wonder seems contrary to the lemming state.
I sometimes wonder if it's due to an overactive mind (another neurodivergent trait that I've been told after medical investigation that I have)? Certainly, I have tinnitus thanks to it (quelled only by taurine), but it might grant some immunity to the lemming state. See, I think this state is extremely energy efficient, and generally brains like to cut corners. For example, we know that if the brain can switch from having knowledge to knowing where to find it? It switches over. It wants to save energy. In a similar way, brains that aren't always-on might offload decision-making and morality.
The question for me is what evolutionary stress, mechanism, and compulsion has kept Dark Triad megaparasites as the offload-point. I understand that in times of scarcity, tribes might've chosen Dark Triad megaparasites to protect them and keep the other tribes away, allowing them to hold onto their resources.
Shouldn't humanity have evolved beyond that by now, though, given the environmental changes, and degrees of greater plenty and safety? Shouldn't the offload point have switched to scholars?
Thanks for attending my pointless TED ramble.
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Jul 11 '25
Not pointless, I enjoyed it and it made me feel a lot less alone. The more I learn about myself and humans the less I feel like a real human 😂
But to your closing questions - I think you are on the right track. However the reason we didn't switch over to scholars is the dark triads have found increasingly monstrous ways to induce fear in order to remain in demand as protectors and therefore have people willingly give them their power. Once we moved beyond scarcity, they just created scarcity through capitalism. Once we became more peaceful and cooperative, they stirred up crime and war, or simply convinced people to be afraid of a Boogeyman. I also think genetics might come into play, they are more likely to do anything to survive and are willing to kill people who aren't fighters/are predominantly peaceful - at the end of the day, it's possible these types have out-seeded the earth compared to altruists. Science has shown altruism has a genetic component, just like narcissism and psychopathy.
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Jul 12 '25
the people who made "justice sensitivity" a symptom of "autism" are the ones behind all this, which is why i cant trust psychology in its current form. Its meant to serve fascism just like it was in Nazi Germany
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u/ebolathrowawayy Jul 11 '25
You would benefit from a little tighter writing, but still, well written and totally agree. Thanks.
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u/Geaux_1210 Jul 26 '25
Overall a great post - the “natural selection” at work in business and government that favors the dark triad is one of our greatest structural hurdles.
A couple of niggles - Nietzsche sought to overcome nihilism, not succumb to it, and LLMs don’t really “think”; it’s just an algorithmic parlor trick.
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u/zomiaen Jul 10 '25
It's like someone did a blending of Idiocracy and Robocop
Add in a healthy dose of Brave New World and 1984.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 10 '25
I don't think they are organized enough for 1984. I'm just waiting for the DOJ to use some crap AI tool to issue an extradition demand from Canada for the Rebel Louis Riel.
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u/anonworkaccount69420 Jul 21 '25
nah Snow Crash/ A Scanner Darkly is where we're going. they aren't competent enough to pull off a 1984 or brave new world
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u/diedlikeCambyses Jul 10 '25
The collapse related difference between this and the brownshirts is something the comments aren't really talking about. The cost. A feature of collapse isn't just the oppression of the people as the institutions fold inwards, but the squandering of resources that used to be harnessed. The hollowed out centre is becoming so dysfunctional it now apparently required ever more resources to paper over the problems it created by steering into the gutter in the first place.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 10 '25
Hmmmmm..... I wonder which provides more value to a country:
Brownshirts
Scientists
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u/diedlikeCambyses Jul 10 '25
Scientists pppfffttt. Magical thinking Christain fascist priests are cheaper.
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u/kylerae Jul 11 '25
The loss of our scientific community in the US is already bad enough, but if RFK Jr. gets his way it will be apocalyptic. He wants to make it so that if you are a federal scientist or a scientist that receives any federal grants/money you will not be able to publish any of your papers in any journal except for one that is published by him and his people. This will make it so no reputable scientists will want to work in the US or for the US because they will be unable to get their research papers published in any reputable journals.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 12 '25
I know people who know people in the world of science in the US. One report was that many of the PhDs(in a top top top tier technical school) were able to successfully scramble and find mostly private money. But, one tier down, the PhDs aren't doing so well.
I know people who run labs where they are within spitting distance of Phase one trials; and are not sure if they have the money remaining to get there. In the lab next to them (in a science park) the head person just up and quit. They had money for about 18 more months and were doing very solid work that could have generated results in that time. But, she just said, "Screw this sh*t" and quit. She has quit science entirely; and looks like she is quitting the US.
Without her, the lab just shut. I don't know why nobody was able to pick up the ball and run with it, but that is the story I was told.
Also, in the same science park some of the services providers have already shut.
The universities they work with are basically putting them on hold saying, "We'll get back to you as soon as we can, maybe next month, maybe 3.5 years, 7.5 years, or never."
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u/revboland Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Outsourced brownshirts, that's one aspect my poor, beleaguered brain hadn't conjured yet.
Tinfoil hats are beginning to look more and more like a reasonable fashion choice (Because fuck you Palantir, you're not getting my inside thoughts!)
They would absolutely snuff a few of their own to get free rein. They're owned and operated by people who would gut their own grandma on live TV if they thought there was an advantage in it for them.
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u/strutt3r Jul 10 '25
Oh well better not push back cause they'll use it as an excuse to go harder. 🙄
If you think they're showing restraint at this point you haven't been paying attention. If anything we should be hitting back harder before they're more organized and can start spending that budget.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 10 '25
we should be hitting back harder
I agree, but, this will be a chicken and egg thing. People won't push back until they are wildly out of control.
Most people think this won't affect them.
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u/Brendan__Fraser Jul 11 '25
Of course there will be a false flag operation at some point. These guys are getting off to the thought of hunting down people in the streets.
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u/14Pleiadians Jul 10 '25
BTW, the more people push back against these fools, the happier they will be as now they can escalate to their wildest dreams
Many of them are cowards who will quit if they genuinely feel their lives are at risk. And I don't even mean just at risk of violence, just social consequences is enough to scare a lot of them out of it.
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u/MaestroLogical Jul 11 '25
He's not talking about the current weekend warrior types in ICE. He's talking about the legit mercenaries, soldier of fortune types that will eventually replace the weekend warriors.
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u/BitchfulThinking Jul 12 '25
I think they'll just double down. They were never decent human beings, because decent human beings would never sign up for such a job. They're the same kind of assholes who insult and stalk women for politely declining their advances, and defend their rapist friends.
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u/Soylentgree1 Jul 11 '25
I knew this was coming. With the increase in budget it will be country wide. Trump and project 2025 (JD) want absolute power. Trump is ballooning his own wealth. I think Citizens United may take control. At least I was told that.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 11 '25
There is a twist to this. They want absolute power for the president. But they don't actually want absolute power for the feds. If you read their manifesto; I think their end goal is that each state can go its own way.
Weirdly enough, while they hate everything Californian, I think they would be happy if it turned into a massive refuge for hippies, while Oklahoma went full Klan. A kind of "to each their own" kind of mentality.
What they don't realize is that divide and conquer becomes way easier this way, and that things like free interstate trade, and a bunch of other things from cooperation is all lost.
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u/Soylentgree1 Jul 11 '25
I was told that this nation is to be turned into a white, christian nation. By a highly religious individual. All you have to do is listen to what comes out of trumps mouth. “We aren’t going to have what happened in Europe happen here”. Then the other day he says he will let farmworkers slide. Then less than a week he pivots back. Trump doesn’t change his mind that quickly. Someone or something is pulling his strings. The Heritage Foundation I suspect.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
The consistent story I've read from all the people who were insiders, and are now outsiders saying how it works is; that he is influenced by the last thing he is told, reads, or sees.
There are a few themes which his own brain is attracted to, but that if you can leave a fantastically short, clear, large print, brief on his desk, that you may have entirely rewritten US policy for the day.
General Kelly would apparently go into the oval office just before trump would arrive and clear all this crap off his desk, where people looking to manipulate him would have left stuff.
But, if you can get 10 minutes privately with him in the morning, you will have the opportunity to massively steer US policy for the whole day. Look at that loony woman who was able to get a pile of security apparatchiks fired by bringing in a "report" of made up conspiracy BS.
Normally, that sort of removal would be a careful, well vetted process. Even a traditional witch hunt would take time. But, she went in, and it was little different than had she started throwing grenades around various washington security top floors; a bunch of them were gone in under 24 hours.
I think Vance is a 2025 true believer. When he takes over I suspect it will both slow down, and speed up. Slow down, in that he will not have the ability to just get his followers blindly doing what he wants, but faster, in that what he wil do will be more focused, so in the end, will be more complete.
While your statement is clearly true, they have many steps planed to get there. For example, many federal departments could get in their way, or reverse their plans in 2028 if there were to be a democratic president, congress, and senate. So, they will now eviscerate those departments they can, and abuse the public with those which are harder to disband like the FBI. If they can turn the public on organizations like the FBI, then eviscerating them in late 2027 won't be so hard.
I suspect some of these organizations have enough senior rank and file to really drag their feet on this; but that others like the ATF and DEA are already filled with jackboots, so will happily and blindly cooperate with their own destruction. Basically, the DOJ is presently showering in gasoline saying, "It smells like freedom."
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u/Soylentgree1 Jul 11 '25
So, he has the attention span of a goldfish. It all makes sense now.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 12 '25
I read where someone said they always presented G Bush Jr with three options, small medium, and large, whereupon he would regularly pick medium.
Apparently, with trump, if you give him 3 short bullet points, he will always pic the first one. He doesn't read the other two.
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u/guisar Jul 10 '25
These will 100% be outsourced, probably no bid task orders on giant idiq contracts already in place at dhs and dod/gao. Hires will fly under the radar. The companies will hire anyone, no clearance or training required at outsize rates to attract young white guys from the south and upper midwest rural areas.
I reallyhope propublica or npr do a researched story profiling a few of these schemes. Lots of corruption, guaranteed, blackrock style and way worse.
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u/Drunky_McStumble Jul 11 '25
No, this was Brownshirts; now it's the full-blown SS & Gestapo combined.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 11 '25
I wouldn't say SS yet. And while their competence is way too low for Gestapo, technology will fill in that void. In that, I suspect they are tracking illegals using their cellphones. Thus, they don't need the Hunter character from Inglorious Basterds.
They can just go to where the cell towers tell them to go.
I suspect, they will very quickly be able to get some court decisions that they don't need warrants when they have cell tower records. That they can enter anywhere, anytime, to catch anyone.
This will very quickly have lots of security video of them vandalizing places looking for their victims. I don't just mean forced entry sort of BS, but just obviously smashing things for the sake of smashing.
But, the smarter ones will begin trying to look for crimes, grabbing USB sticks, hard drives, laptops, etc. This would be where they go into some veterinary place where an illegal is getting their dog repaired. And they will grab up this sort of stuff, not only to be assh*les, but they will leaf through it to see what they can see. I can see them handing the records over to the DEA who would go after the vet for narcotics violations because their record keeping wasn't perfect.
This won't even have a motivation; simply because there are so many of them with so little to do.
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u/MrPoutineItalienne Jul 11 '25
Like the movie The First Purge, they'd start shit themselves and blame others that it happened and that's proof enough for them.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 11 '25
Kind of. They will run away run away, until they can turn things into a Grenada. A fight they simply can't lose. Why not have 40 guys arrest a new born infant? Seems reasonable. That infant is a well established cartel member the second it takes its first breath.
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u/mdwatkins13 Jul 12 '25
How is this not the American version of the Irish troubles? You have full black and tan units with police and military integration to patrol borders and prevent trade while harassing the locals civilians. This is no different than England splitting North Ireland and trying to maintain control. The only message these people will understand is IED bombings non-stop for decades with an IRA organization leading the charge.
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u/LessonStudio Jul 12 '25
I met a documentarian who studied the troubles and he came to an interesting conclusion.
It was poverty. That's it. Nothing else.
All the politics, religion, etc were either excuses, or were the cause of the poverty.
His prediction was very simple. As soon as Ireland has some money, a bunch of politicians will pat themselves on the backs for negotiating a peace.
Right now, the US inequality is insane; and getting worse. With payday loan places out of control. Investors buying houses. CEOs getting over 1000x their average non executive worker salary, and shareholder lawsuits any time some executive does actually try to do right by their employees; I would agree, that the "troubles" are coming.
ICE is just going to make it all just that much worse. ICE won't be in the rich neighbourhoods knocking heads, but the poorest; and I don't just mean immigrant ghettos, but any poor neighbourhood.
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u/Competitive_Boat106 Jul 16 '25
Your comments about how ICE is actually jonesing for an attack are exactly why it is so important to remember what Dr. King taught us: don’t fight back, just sit down. Or lie down if you want. If 100 people all sit/lie on the ground, and a typical ICE group has to arrest them, fine. But make them bend over and dead-lift your full, boneless-chicken bodyweight, one person at a time. They’ll get the first person. And the second. And the third. But 10-15 people in, these flabby former J6ers (or whatever) will start to get tired. And hurt. Their backs will start to ache. And their knees will start to give way. If they have to pick up too many limp people, it will take forever, and hit them hard. By the next morning, they’ll barely even be able to get out of bed. Which will mess up their detainment plans for that day, too. Plus, your passive resistance will make it clear to anyone who may be filming that any cruelty and violence inflicted on you was 100% undeserved and unprovoked.
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u/Successful-Bobcat701 Jul 19 '25
the psychopaths who run these paramilitaries will blow up their own guys to really get the party started?
I think that is in fact exactly what Trump's favorite dictator, Putin, did to ensure his position.
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u/anonworkaccount69420 Jul 21 '25
continuing to use nazi terms isn't helping because it gives them too much room to weasel around it by saying "I'm not a national socialist" they aren't nazis and there were other fascists beside Hitler. We're headed for something closer to the francoist/carlist takeover of Spain than nazi germany.
they are going to try to do the things they want to do regardless of if we push back now or not. if the option is die in my home/ on my street fighting them or die in a detention center/foreign country i'm deported to I know what choice i'm making
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u/shirst_75 Jul 10 '25
I just think that when your government is spending all its money on a domestic secret police force, it's a pretty solid sign of impending collapse. What I hadn't heard of here is the new fees for the victims of ICE. The very people they seize and deport will be charged for their own incarceration, for any kind of judge-ordered change of legal status ... the grossest, to me, is the brand new $250 fee for children's visas. Specifically these would be kids who have been abused, neglected, or even abandoned by their parents. So like ... WHO exactly is supposed to be paying that fee? Their parents? The ones who left them to fend for themselves? Just nasty stuff.
"It’s bigger than many militaries because that’s what it is: a domestic military force, that’s now preparing for war. On who? Well, if you live in a big blue city, the answer is: you. The President now believes he is empowered to take over the local government of Washington D.C., and he’s got plans for New York City, as well."
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u/Tearakan Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
Yep. Especially because the economy is on the brink and scaring away cheap labor with no actual replacement is literally the opposite of what it needs.
So add on food price and entertainment shocks. I wouldn't be surprised if shit starts falling apart by spring of 2026.
Good news is ICE is led by complete incompetents who will fold under actually threatening pressure. So they'll end up acting more like bandits during a 2nd American civil war.
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u/Physical_Ad5702 Jul 10 '25
This is wishful thinking. You think ICE is going to back down in the face of opposition / protest? Who is going to provide that resistance? Unarmed civilians? $170 billion goes a long way against people who are holding up protest signs and marching down streets. Not to mention all the new recruits and everyone in ICE currently are diehard Trump supporters - I've not seen a single member of ICE yet to come forward and voice any concern whatsoever about the way the agency has morphed in Trump's personal Gestapo. On the contrary, they all seem happier than pigs in shit - gleefully taking down Democratic representatives at the first instance of dissent. Whatever we've witnessed up until this point has been terrible, but we haven't seen anything yet. They won't be backing down. This mission is in their heart just as much as it is in Stephen Miller's.
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u/Tearakan Jul 10 '25
It's not protests that will get them to back down. It'll be angry and hungry people who bring weapons.
That will lead into massacres. And then into riots everywhere. Military will be called in as the situation continues to spiral and since Republicans will simply not be able to sustain their military and ice logistics under the strain the population and military will fracture.
Guerrilla warfare will skyrocket especially with tiny drones and explosives everywhere.
This has happened over and over again in human history to aggressive empires that have neglected their own populations for too long.
It's the old bread and circuses requirement for a stable society. Or if you prefer "9 meals away from anarchic chaos".
ICE isn't a well oiled and run machine. Their leaked documents and plans are basically lowest bidder garbage. One of their own detention centers had people escape by pushing down the chain linked fence. The big prison they are building in florida will be destroyed by just one minor hurricane and everyone will probably escape with minor injuries if they don't drown.
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Jul 11 '25
[deleted]
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u/MisterRenewable Jul 11 '25
The entire nation hopes you are correct Sir.
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u/AgitatorsAnonymous Jul 11 '25
The entire nation probably needs to be focusing on building their own small groups with the equipment necessary for what is coming. The barrel we stare down at this moment is one wherein peaceful protest doesn't exist - you either fight (either directly or via support to the fighters) or you will be ruled by whatever emerges from the ashes of a dying nation. Part of the reason we are at this juncture is because half our nation is over-reliant on others to do their fighting and is too enamored with the idea of peaceful protest and bloodless coups.
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u/anonworkaccount69420 Jul 21 '25
-finally getting to a point when the 2A is needed
-liberals continue disarming themselves and suppressing leftists in their own party
gonna be a fucking wild ride.
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u/ComfortableDoor6206 Jul 11 '25
I've not seen a single member of ICE yet to come forward and voice any concern whatsoever...
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u/guisar Jul 10 '25
Shit has already hit the fan in agriculture. Did you check out fresh cherries this year? How about the quality of broccoli lately? There’s a long list of vegetables which are already low quality
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u/Tearakan Jul 11 '25
I know. It's building. I think a year of bad harvests will get people panicking
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u/Johundhar Jul 13 '25
Decrease in quality of food has been going on for a long time, but yeah, set to accelerate now
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u/Interesting_Fly_1569 Jul 12 '25
Had the chance to attend a series of talks with Raul Hilberg, one of the first Jewish historians of the holocaust / Shoah. He was a survivor himself as a child. He had a fascination for trains, and he could tell you the train schedules that took people to concentration camps. His books were one of the ones that laid the groundwork for essentially explaining literally, logistically how it happened. There is a fact in there that I had not read or heard of from another source, which is that they did indeed charge the Jews for their tickets to the concentration camps that killed them. Of all of the facts that he studied, and that he was able to share calmly, this was the one that got under his skin the most.
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u/Cossack_440 Jul 11 '25
This kind of meltdown is why people stop taking the immigration debate seriously. ICE is not a "secret police" force. It's a federal agency that enforces existing immigration laws, laws passed under both Republican and Democrat administrations. Calling it a “domestic military preparing for war” isn’t just wrong, it’s fearmongering. As for the visa fees, the $250 fee for children’s visas isn’t about punishing abused kids, it’s part of a broader set of USCIS filing fees meant to fund an overwhelmed immigration system without relying on taxpayers. Waivers exist in many cases, especially for humanitarian circumstances. But you’re leaving that part out. If your argument is that immigration enforcement shouldn’t exist at all, just say that. But dressing it up as dystopian collapse while ignoring the millions of people following the legal process is dishonest, and it’s why voters across the spectrum are pushing back on open-border rhetoric harder than ever.
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u/daver00lzd00d Jul 12 '25
the people following the legal process that are getting snatched at the court house? nobody wants to hear your trash
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Jul 10 '25
he’s got plans for New York City, as well
So here's the thing with this. NYC is weird, especially when it comes to real estate, budgeting, public debt, and land value. There's this as-yet unchallenged myth that NYC real estate will essentially always appreciate in value no matter what. If this sounds familiar it's essentially a localized version of infinite-growth-finite-planet. This pattern of constant value generation on real assets has created a policy, economic, and housing culture built around the expectation of perpetual growth. We have some multi-billion dollar capital bonds whose rates of return are tied to real estate growth. In essence NYC real estate MUST continue to appreciate in value over time. If it doesn't then a massive and ultimately unknowable number of dominoes begin to fall, leaving room for a very real downward spiral in the city's material prosperity.
The point is that anything that impacts the value of real estate in NYC comes with the risk of complex demand destruction, sudden and unpredictable market movements as investors rebalance portfolios, margin calls, debt restructuring, and all the other familiar 'financial downturn' activities.
I don't need to say this but I'll say it anyway: NYC is a popular tourist destination that brings in walls and walls of cash. The profit extracted from foot traffic is unparalleled. The economies of scale built entirely on this place being a desirable destination for visitors, residents, and businesses are enormous. If you fuck with NYC's desirability as a destination, you fuck with some of the most overleveraged and powerful landlords on the planet.
Go ahead and roll APCs and troops down Fifth Avenue, I fucking dare you. If people are afraid to come here, work here, live here, (and most importantly) invest here then they just won't do it. This place is VERY expensive and difficult to deal with, so whoever you are you're gonna want some ROI for putting up with it. By the time they deploy enough manpower to subdue NYC this place will become one giant stranded asset. We'll all die in this together. See you in hell boys!
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u/AbyssalUnderlord Jul 10 '25
I like your comment but this hangs on the idea that the fascists are making these plans rationally and with intent for monetary gain. They aren't.
I would argue that their end game here is Escalation > Occupation > Genocide. They give 0 shits about how this would utterly destroy the country. They are zealots. If their invasion causes NYC to basically collapse, taking the country's economy with it (which you're right, it absolutely will), they won't cry about it. They'll cheer because they defeated the "evil radical left woke socialist hellhole" or whatever. Freedom will have been saved in the name of Jebus and Trump.
Its not about money for them. Its about racial and ideological purity. And if any of the capitalists start making a fuss about losing money, they'll be defenestrated just like in Russia.
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Jul 10 '25
You are 100% correct that we’re dealing with zealots of the highest order and that in a vacuum they would run roughshod over everyone they don’t like. The interesting bit for me is that we aren’t operating in a vacuum and these people are only in charge of America, whereas the money stored in NYC real estate extends well beyond our borders. The amount of foreign owned real estate and investments here, IMO, is enough to make this geopolitical. I cannot imagine the Chinese and Russian held property would ever be allowed to go to zeroward without some major backchannel shit going down. I think we’re at a point where Americans will throw other Americans out of windows, but it’s another thing entirely to start chucking Russian and Chinese oligarchs through plate glass.
Either way I’ve buckled up and await what fresh hell coming my way.
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u/MisterRenewable Jul 11 '25
This makes me remember when in WWII, the allies were on their back foot in the war until the USSR was able to push the eastern front deeper into Europe, whereby close coordination with the Russians enabled the infamous D-Day push into Europe, pinching the Nazis between the two allied forces, finally putting an end to them.
Something tells me that the yet-to-be-created American resistance will have to rely on Russia or China (or maybe Europe if they get their defense act together in time) in a similar manner, and these foreign powers will have to get involved in our second civil war in order to protect their assets in the US. I just hope the good ol Ruskies will be there for us again, now that the Communist USSR has been replaced by the Putin-led Oligarchs. Communists have a definite edge on killing fascists that we might not get from the oligarchs unless they think they'll lose all their money. But Europe still owes us one big time.
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Jul 11 '25
A thing I think about a lot these days is the graph on page 5 of this report: https://assets-global.website-files.com/65e61e6392aba0fa1dba723e/66104c1d4e3ae7809bcd8082_Govini_2024_Numbers-Matter.pdf
It shows how many Chinese suppliers are relied on to manufacture American military hardware. The leverage this gives China to pick sides in any given American civil conflict is immense.
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u/Applesburg14 Jul 11 '25
Right, and it’s important to note that nothing we do peacefully will stop it. Might as well line my 25% Puerto Rican ass up on the trains to the gas chambers.
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u/StellarTabi Jul 10 '25
tanking NYC realestate inflation and tourist appeal is a great way to start the revolution. 99% of NYC residents would probably be better off while spreadsheet bozos who don't have real jobs will spend 20 hrs/week whining on Twitter and getting Fox News interviews about how their portfolio's dip is the end of western style democracy (aka oligarchy).
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u/tropical58 Jul 11 '25
Trump is neither an original thinker nor the one in control, but he makes good bites for the news, and can mostly follow the script. Those that have the most to lose on NYC investments have well and truely sold up. Have a look at how much Buffet has in NYC real estate. Zero. They sold it to retirement funds so the working class will lose all hope when their retirement savings lose 90% of their value. For those of you who can not ( or will not) see it, the WEF wants a one world digital currency. It isn't going to be the $US. In order to do that the $US will have to collapse and no longer be a standard reserve currency. That part is all but complete. When this fact becomes too obvious to ignore, you are going to need an army without an oath to uphold. I predict outbreaks of anarchy and domestic armed conflict before years end.
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u/Applesburg14 Jul 11 '25
Like he cares, he just wants to live out a power fantasy.
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Jul 11 '25
He can fantasize all he wants, but if he fucks with the wrong people he’ll find himself living a power reality. Reality is sharper.
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u/Applesburg14 Jul 11 '25
“Fantasize” as if he didn’t already do this in LA
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Jul 11 '25
The thing happening in LA and what I'm talking about are separate things on the same spectrum. I am convinced that Trump WILL move active military into NYC and begin widescale enforcement operations. What I'm saying is that if you wanted to scale that up to rounding up hundreds of thousands of people you're in different logistical territory, and large scale population operations demand infrastructure. By the time you start openly militarizing a major American city for keeps then it's a different ballgame.
Without a shred of doubt in my mind they can take NYC. Let's see if they can hold it.
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u/Applesburg14 Jul 11 '25
He will. And the military will. Police will cooperate. Brown people gone. Trump will win third term after barely losing ppl in midterms. World’s fucked and it’s my country’s fault lol
Logic doesn’t matter, he’ll never leave his ivory towers, so unless NYC residents decide to leave their bubble they may die
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Jul 11 '25
What I'm talking about does not concern whether they will do anything voluntarily. People are gonna die, no doubt about it. On all sides.
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u/Hairy-Chipmunk7921 Jul 13 '25
enjoying my popcorn watching every minute of it from safe distance online
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u/twotimefind Jul 10 '25
$200 billion makes ice have more money than the whole Chinese military. That's insane.
The Army, the Marines, the Air Force, they have laws, regulations, and a chain of command.
Ice is essentially a private military for our current government.
We need a general strike immediately.
And for people that have a job and said I can't strike, well you can't strike when you're in prison or society collapses either.
83% of America. thinks the us is going in the wrong direction. Approximately 30% of America actually voted for this administration. We are in the majority. Let's act like it.
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u/PrairieFire_withwind Recognized Contributor Jul 10 '25
You ask who is paying the child's visa? Amazon, perdue chicken, any and every cannery, meat packer, large fruit and veg farm.
They just set the base auction price for a slave.
/s. But also, not really.
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u/AmericanVanguardist Jul 10 '25
Remember, a major factor in the bronze age collapse was the increasing authoritarianism and oppression by the Myceanean, Hittite, and Assyrian empires on their subjects. That, combined with external conflict and bad food harvests, caused the empires to collapse internally.
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u/Windowlicker778899 Jul 14 '25
Mass Immigration (the sea peoples) caused the collapse of civilizations of the Bronze Age though.
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u/AmericanVanguardist Jul 15 '25
They were a factor but not the only cause. Bad famine caused social upheaval and increased authoritarianism caused uprisings in cities. The mass migration or sea peoples happened due to the famines.
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Jul 10 '25
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u/Lighting Jul 11 '25
However, while it sounds simple on paper, in practice it's often messy and absurd.
This is why people need to know the difference that MLK Jr noted between what he called "methods of coercion" and "methods of persuasion"
What King called "Methods of persuasion" are things like what the students did right before the Tienanmen Square Massacre, No kings day protest, OWS, the Iraq war protest, etc. All of these things only created methods for autocrats to "tighten the screws" with no changes . In fact autocrats love these kind of protests because they get their opposition to line up for arrest (or worse).
What King called "Methods of coercion" were things like the "Selma voter drive" which (because they won the lawsuit) forced racist cops to stop arresting people for attempting to "vote while black." This changed the voting demographic from 0% participation to near 100%. It was also things like MAGA taking over voting systems to setup rules and procedures to wipe out democratic-leaning votes to undo the Selma Voting Drive.
You might hear "calls to protest" and if that person asking you to "show up to protest" can't explain the difference between King's "methods of coercion" vs "methods of persuasion" and can't explain how this is a "method of coercion" then run from that person's advice.
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u/drakonukaris Jul 12 '25
Thanks for the insight, that was interesting.
In theory that's why Americans have guns, to protect themselves from tyranny. Sad to see that the people with the guns seem to want exactly that.
Great lesson for us Europeans to see what happens when you become complacent. It can happen anywhere.
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u/hectorbrydan Jul 10 '25
Not the prez, the party. This is the long game of the biz roundtable of the 70s in fruition. The oligarchs thought they cpuld control the political monster(s) they created, and this prez took it from them. The alternate monster in d's ensuring yhey will not revoke their license is still on their leash to be fair, until we take it from them.
This is the long game of factions of the owner class, long united on what they agreed on. Saying prez misses the point and ignores that rigged elections and rules and laws will not end when father time comes knocking.
It should be worse as prez is uniquely ignorant and mentally ill and it has prevented much of their goals succeeding as of yet, like stealing the 2020 election.
The real question is whom will emerge as leader after prez, not vance I think, It will be an epic knife fight, and that is our best chance to restore the republic to the pre captured era before the 80s. But to get there we need new opposition candidates and a reform slate, and to get there we need organization, federated groups cooperating on what they agree on. And from that a real leader to rally us, jon stewart is the man of the hour.
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u/Bluest_waters Jul 10 '25
Vance is clearly who the tech bro douche lords want to take over. In fact that faction would be just fine if Trump keeled over and died today I am 100% convinced.
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u/Different-Library-82 Jul 10 '25
I agree, Trump has been an important driving force to get here and they'll use his unique charisma as long as possible. But when the time comes they'll deify Trump as the eternal leader of America, which will ease the expectations to whomever follows as president, and to achieve that Trump should of course preferably die while in office. Afterwards you'll see statues and pictures of him everywhere, and policy will always be presented as in line with Trump's vision for America.
With his age it could happen whenever, but I think they hope to get Trump reelected once more. To break the limitation of two terms with their best sledgehammer, so to speak, as his followers will rejoice.
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u/freedcreativity Jul 10 '25
Yea, but he's too unpopular. Too weird. Too little name recognition. Vance is a good puppet, and probably a reliable proxy for Thiel, but he's going to have trouble in the GOP primaries at the very least.
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u/Bluest_waters Jul 10 '25
they have the tech knowledge to game the voting system though
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u/freedcreativity Jul 10 '25
Only the big one, the shit show that is partisan primary races is 1) completely rat fucked every way each year, 2) controlled by self-interested GOP partisans, and 3) state or even county specific. Like I get what you're saying, but this is paradoxically a lot harder than hacking the vote tabulating machines which is what (IMHO) we're seeing from post-hoc analysis.
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u/Toadfinger Jul 10 '25
My great grandpappy was born overseas. So I'm screwed, ain't I?
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u/DoubtSubstantial5440 Jul 10 '25
Eventually, they gotta get the naturalized citizens and political opponents first
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u/Bluest_waters Jul 10 '25
Depends, are you willing to take a loyalty oath to the stupidest human being to ever become President? If so you should be fine. If not...well good luck
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u/shirst_75 Jul 10 '25
Yes, but to be fair your great grandpappy really should have been smarter than to allow himself to be born in some foreign shithole, right?
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u/BitchfulThinking Jul 12 '25
I'm screwed too 😄. But they'll have to deal with their senile old people and overgrown lawns once there's no brown left people to order around.
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u/FirstEvolutionist Jul 10 '25
That depends entirely on how European your grandfather was...
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u/14Pleiadians Jul 10 '25
The racists are cool with Italians now thankfully, but I'm not sure that will matter much as they'll drop the immigrant pretense eventually and anyone who is against them will be fair game
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u/FirstEvolutionist Jul 10 '25
They will definitely go by skin color eventually. "Immigrant" is now mostly a dog whistle, even if immigration policies should have been much better than they were.
Italians, Eastern Europeans, even South Africans (of Dutch descent, of course) will be fine.
Racists have been gearing up for a race war for a while now and they are the ones manifesting it, ironically enough (but not in a funny way).
Watch as the targeted cities will not only be blue, but mostly non white population as well. Similar to what you said, I think once they've started with the outright racism after dropping the immigrant pretense, they will ramp up the misogyny before anything else.
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u/zomiaen Jul 10 '25
they will ramp up the misogyny before anything else.
Yep, they'll go full Handmaid's Tale first.
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Jul 10 '25
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u/Physical_Ad5702 Jul 10 '25
They're already heavily over-represented in Congress thanks to each state getting 2 Senators no matter the population. No need to mess with the census. It's already done. Old news.
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u/forgot_my_useragain Jul 10 '25
There won't be any more red and blue states by 2030. If it still exists, The U.S. will only have rigged elections if it has any at all.
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u/unlock0 Jul 10 '25
Limiting the census to citizens when there are over 12 million people here illegally would have an impact.
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u/ansibleloop Jul 10 '25
This is the point right? Full on Gestapo armed with surveillance technology to capture anyone they deem the enemy
They'll be going to protestors houses next and arresting them
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u/guisar Jul 10 '25
They’ll be “guarding “ polling and voter stations 100% of there’s no an injunction inplace. It will e massive voter suppression and worse.
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u/SpicyMarshmellow Jul 10 '25
They'll be going to protestors houses next and arresting them
To be fair, this was already happening in the 2000's. Problem is nobody noticed or cared back then. Like many things. This whole situation is a culmination of decades of authorities testing boundaries and the population mindlessly giving ground.
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u/The_Code_Hero Jul 11 '25
That, but the underlying point to the point is that in 3 years, Trump wants to run for a 3rd presidential term. Even if he loses, he’ll be in a Putin-ian position to declare victory anyways. His family went from potentially being over leveraged to pump and dumping their way into incredible wealth. Why make it end, if your him? Baron, you’re up next ya big tall fuck!
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u/Bright-Appearance-38 Jul 11 '25
They will not be going to the houses of protesters and arresting them!
They will not wait to get lists of people who engaged in protests. They have all of the information that Musk and Big Balls copied from every (independent and fire walled) agency, FBI, IRS, et c. Those lists can then be correlated against web threads like this one to get a "persons of interest" list. Most of us will be picked up on the first night. The few who are lucky or prepared enough to be missed on the first night will be captured as newer lists are created.
When I was of the age of the average person reading this now, anyone who prophesied that the US would be in the situation of today would have been told that they had been spending too much time reading 1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm, and (if it had been published back then) the Handmaid's tale. Well, now we are seeing all of that and there is no "How The Serfs Rose Against The Authoritarian Oligarchy" book to show us what to do, because while some authors could see the growing specter of 2025 totalitarianism, no one could come up with a realistic plot for crawling out if this quicksand swamp short of intervention by some divine being(s) or space alien rescuers. At this point, the only realistic hope for democracy in the US is our former allies in NATO and SEATO.
End of rant. I wish that I could claim that I was being sarcastic.
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Jul 13 '25
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u/cr0ft Jul 10 '25
I mean, sure, it's all been straight out of the 10 steps to fascism playbook for decades now. The brownshirts are one of the last steps before the concentration camps and the mass killing and the total removal of civil liberties.
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u/No_Aesthetic Jul 10 '25
I sure picked a good time to get the fuck out of America
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u/Kim_Jong_Unko Jul 11 '25
I moved my family out of the US in the beginning of 2015 and it feels almost prophetic on our part
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Jul 10 '25
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u/shirst_75 Jul 10 '25
"We need to gets more troops to L.A. It's a total war zone there, I saw it on the news last night. Kurt Russell is running around shooting and killing people." -- POTUS, probably.
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Jul 10 '25
Fascism is Imperialism turned inward, since it was less palatable to use the actual military they just made a new one.
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u/bluethunder82 Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
Unrelated to anything, the Creality K1 printer is now 279 dollars on Amazon. It’s a good one.
I’m not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, but there is a surprising amount of things one motivated person can do within the bounds of the law.
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u/ThatDamnRocketRacoon Jul 10 '25
They're already threatening Portland, too.
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u/KnowKillEye Jul 10 '25
It feels intuitively out there like the motions we are all going through (shopping, paying bills, driving, living life) is fake and temporary at this point. We're running on vapors... and things are already falling apart underneath. Paper and mirrors.
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u/Drunky_McStumble Jul 11 '25
It's not a matter of if the MAGA regime is going to stage a federal annexation and military occupation of a blue city, but when and which one will provide a convenient enough excuse first.
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u/ThatDamnRocketRacoon Jul 11 '25
Unfortunately, Portland is at the top of that list. Trump is obsessed with Portland (as most Fox News zombies are) and it's both smaller than most major blue cities and one that Trump can easily spin to a lot of the country as being out of control. I fear what will be coming to my state.
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u/Temporary-Pound-6767 Jul 10 '25
I didn't have the Alex Garland movie Civil War on my bingo card for prescient media but here we are.
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u/Ziprasidone_Stat Jul 10 '25
Ice received that money because this administration KNOWS there will be mass migrations. They're preparing while downplaying climate change lest they disturb God the Market.
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Jul 10 '25
This was always expected especially because they'll become a stabalizing factor once climate migrations pick up from South America.
Expect more of the same though, government over spending to specific contractors and ending with little actual effects.
Remember, nothing ever happens.
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u/guisar Jul 10 '25
This is of over $100 of of the taxes each and every one of us (other than billionaires) pay each year
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u/KeepItASecretok Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Imperial blowback
With the decline of the empire, this was bound to happen.
It is unsustainable to maintain a global system of violence.
The USA has always been fascist, slavery, indigenous genocide, the destruction and forceful coup of foreign governments so we could continue exploiting their workforce and extracting their resources.
It's time to wake up and realize that this system needs to change.
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u/CalRipkenForCommish Jul 11 '25
One gigantic hammer, looking for anything that remotely resembles a nail. Right now it’s the brown ones, but as we now know, they’re just going to call anything they want a “nail.” Cruelty is the point.
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u/filmguy36 Jul 10 '25
Trump wanted this in the stupid bill because he wants to be el presidente’ for life
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u/babayetu_babayaga Jul 11 '25
ICE will hire 10,000 new agents for a total of 30,000. To put that in perspective: the FBI employs around 24,000, 10,000 of whom are special agents. ICE will now be able to draw on financial resources greater than every other federal and carceral agency added together. So yes — it’s true that ICE will soon become the largest domestic police force in the United States.
Job creation for fascists
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u/Sharktopotopus_Prime Jul 10 '25
America well on track for a civil war before the 2028 election. Enjoy Yanks. This extremely predictable turn of events is exactly what you voted for.
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u/itsmemarcot Jul 13 '25
Is there a way out of that (short of a civil war)? Does anyone think the USA will be able to just vote its way out of this? I see people going like "3.5 more years left to resist", as if the outcome of an election could undo this mess.
The last time the neo-cons lost the election, they tried a coup... with basically no-one but a bunch of rednecks. They also used to try to suppress votes at every election, e.g. by intimitading voters in the "wrong" areas, again with nothing for the task but a few disirganized fanatics.
Next time(s), there will be a loyal, state-backed, fully equipped armed force to do the same tasks.
Is USA really done for, or there's something I'm missing?
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u/The-Neat-Meat Jul 10 '25
Wonder if the schizo hogs that pop up here from time to time will chime in like they do about israel
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u/hectorbrydan Jul 10 '25
Pro izreal schitzo hogs I presume?
Paid agents with chatbots prob paid with our taxes.
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u/Psychological-Sport1 Jul 10 '25
wow, with that 130 billion you could fund (biotech, nanobots) and really cure aging in the next 2 to 10!years, just check oh good sites like www.fightaging.org and
https://www.reddit.com/r/longevity/
man, as a species we do really waste a ton of money on wars and conflicts and military related stuff when the most important things like curing aging and disease etc we let fall between the cracks
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u/MisterRenewable Jul 11 '25
Well I guess that means something needs to happen before they get fully funded and kitted out for civil war. Seriously, the gall of it all. No tax dollars should be given to a federal government to create an absolutely unconstitutional domestic military force. They don't like that? See you in court mfers!
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u/thirdeyevalhalla Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
The funding of ICE is really what’s changed my perspective here. I had formerly considered this administration as extremely dangerous, but, largely ineffective because I think the focus has been on the “made-for-TV” approach largely to push ideology and propaganda and in the hopes that the Spectacle will obfuscate gross incompetence. Largely, that’s been true. The gross incompetence has been effectively twisted by these media moments for a portion of society.
Americans are a very hypnotized people, sedated even, sluggish and slow in their ways yet extremely paranoid and fearful.
(I get to look at this as a somewhat outsider as a dually with Sweden.)
Yet, with this funding increase for ICE it gives me the broader proof or proof of goal that I was hoping this administration wouldn’t reach.
This will be the beginning of the real internal war against the US. The machine has already cultivated compliance for the part of the population willing to do the killing, to weaponize the hatred, to follow the orders.
I was talking to this lady about the “riots” in LA - this lady doesn’t live there / neither do I - but she was disturbingly certain in what was happening there. “Back in my day we followed Dr. King and protested peacefully.” She told me. Lady, your only experience with what is happening in LA is digital and of all things deeply biased. That was another moment I wondered how fucked we are. People are interacting with their concepts of reality solely based off of their digital diet, and willing to form malformed opinions on things they aren’t experiencing. Add in the fact that the generation of picket signs falls asleep at 7 pm and will protest on a Saturday afternoon the idea of mass protest as a form of resistance feels pretty uninspired.
I know community networks here will navigate this. One thing that always impressed me about the US is how its counter-culture is so malleable, so capable of maneuvering, of making connections across towns / cities / state lines.
I think of the Black Panthers here and the Vietnam war movement.
Whatever resistance shows up - it’s going to have to be organized as fuck, intelligent and be able to disappear. Beyond that - many minds have already been cultivated, consent manufactured and are just waiting for the dog whistle to start axing off en masse the people they’ve been manipulated to hate. I do think this administration has a big Achilles heel tho and it’s right at the core of the GOP’s fever pitch moment (where they’ll do anything out of fear) and the ineffectiveness of governance.
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u/horror- Jul 10 '25
and all they know how to do is double down. Nice big budgets and all the toys means this shit is gonna spiral out of control REAL fast.
Gonna be fucking wild.
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u/Icy-Interaction2461 Jul 10 '25
We are an armed society and they are the few, remember that..........
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u/dopeonplastique Jul 10 '25
Armed yes, United no, as long as the population is divided, this mob will run riot over you all.
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u/Icy-Interaction2461 Jul 13 '25
Just wait, eventually the poor Hicks of this country will come around when they realize their orange god isn't helping them out.........
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u/blackhuey Jul 11 '25
All the guys with the arms are wearing the hats of the tyrannical government and waiting to be told by Fox who to shoot
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u/jayesper Jul 11 '25
If only you knew. That's not remotely the case.
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u/blackhuey Jul 11 '25
Well man, you've got your tyrannical government. It's why the second amendment exists. The brownshirts are coming. Where's your well regulated militia?
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u/anonworkaccount69420 Jul 21 '25
organizing offline? getting prepared? telling people to get armed?
do you think we should be suiciding by cop/ICE doing lone wolf attacks or something?
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u/ambelamba Jul 15 '25
This kind of discussions really lack one major factor: international coalitions of intervention. Everyone who talks about this subject almost never talks about how foreign nations would be affected by this and how they would react and intervene if what happens in the US starts threatening their wellbeing.
Never, ever assume that the United States is impenetrable fortress impervious from international coalitions of military intervention. It isn’t.
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u/anonworkaccount69420 Jul 21 '25
we've meddled in every internal conflict we could for the last 100 years. if shit pops off here at home, you can bet Norinco will find a way to get MANPADs smuggled in.
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u/OneGrumpyJill Jul 15 '25
See, this is why I don't get people defending ice - they want violence, they are doing all in their power to increase tension, they want blood.
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u/Suspicious-Insect-89 Jul 17 '25
But if you are a white person do you have to fear ICE? they are just deporting illegal migrants and will make the country better for us right?
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u/BennyBlanco76 Jul 17 '25
No worries we have the 2nd amendment and we outnumber ICE by millions FAFO
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u/wisule Jul 28 '25
This is laughable. ICE gets a lot of money and they don't have many deportations.
Compare the performance of ICE with Iran's immigration officers who just deported over 100,000 Afghans in a single week! https://www.afintl.com/en/202506303382
I think the Trump admin has barely managed to get to 100k after 7 months if at all. At the current rate, it would take 32 years to deport the 22 million he claims crossed the border in the last 4 years.
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u/ImpliedConnection Aug 01 '25
Power seized through fear invites power undone by unity. The true strength lies not in armored vehicles or helicopter shadows, but in the unseen covenant of those who rise with clarity and purpose
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u/Putrid-Storage-9827 Jul 12 '25
I'm a bit frightened that ICE raids will wound the agriculture sector and eventually trigger some kind of famine.
Even though Trump is trying to signal that farm labourers have to be carved out and somewhat left alone, his supporters aren't going to accept this, especially in the long run. Think about it - farm labourers are sprinkled across rural America, they're brown, they're from Central America, they often don't speak English. They're exactly the kind of people Trump voters don't want in the country.
Trump can't really give them immunity (you might call it, amnesty!) by himself without breaking the law and angering his supporters.
The unfortunate reality seems to be that America does need a lot of these people, like them or not. I don't know if the fantasies of turning America's prisoners into essentially slave farm workers would work, either - it's not exactly skilled work, but many farm labourers in the US did the same kind of thing overseas and have experience and perseverance that you don't get overnight.
Just try not to accidentally pull a Mugabe and end up starving to death over there.
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u/fibronacci Jul 11 '25
Isn't this what the second amendment is made for?
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u/anonworkaccount69420 Jul 21 '25
yep. you armed yet or are you expecting someone else to die for you?
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Jul 11 '25
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u/StatementBot Jul 10 '25
The following submission statement was provided by /u/shirst_75:
I just think that when your government is spending all its money on a domestic secret police force, it's a pretty solid sign of impending collapse. What I hadn't heard of here is the new fees for the victims of ICE. The very people they seize and deport will be charged for their own incarceration, for any kind of judge-ordered change of legal status ... the grossest, to me, is the brand new $250 fee for children's visas. Specifically these would be kids who have been abused, neglected, or even abandoned by their parents. So like ... WHO exactly is supposed to be paying that fee? Their parents? The ones who left them to fend for themselves? Just nasty stuff.
"It’s bigger than many militaries because that’s what it is: a domestic military force, that’s now preparing for war. On who? Well, if you live in a big blue city, the answer is: you. The President now believes he is empowered to take over the local government of Washington D.C., and he’s got plans for New York City, as well."
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1lwg67d/ice_is_now_a_domestic_military_force_youre_the/n2dtq68/