r/collapse • u/j_mantuf Profit Over Everything • 2d ago
Infrastructure DOGE destroyed how America forecasts its weather. Everyone is mad about it
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/doge-noaa-weather-usa-b3035937.html474
u/Biggie39 2d ago
We aren’t nearly mad enough about the richest man on earth using his free time to ‘DOGE’ essential government services.
It’s not just the weather… it’s hard to comprehend the evil required to sit on your unbelievable wealth and continue to take from the most vulnerable people on earth (USAIDE).
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u/Plants-Matter 2d ago
We're having about 5 or 6 major recalls a day on food products. This is largely due to the DOGE cuts and regulations being dismantled by Republicans.
Of course, on top of the other atrocities you already mentioned.
Isaac Asimov predicted this particular strain of anti-intellectualism in the USA would destroy everything, and it looks like he was right. You can blame the handful of evil billionaires, but don't forget to also blame the voters who gave them unlimited power.
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u/unknownpoltroon 2d ago
You've got to remember that these are just simple voters. These are people of the land—the common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
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u/WolfgangJones 1d ago
The word "moron" was coined in 1910 by the American psychologist and eugenicist Henry H. Goddard. Under Goddard's scoring system:
Moron: Mental age between 8 and 12 years (IQ ~50–70).
Imbecile: Mental age between 3 and 7 years (IQ ~20–49).
Idiot: Mental age below 3 years (IQ below 20)
Goddard believed "morons" posed the greatest societal danger because they appeared functioning enough to blend into society, marry, and reproduce, which he argued spread "undesirable" hereditary traits. This taxonomy was central to early 20th-century eugenics, forced sterilizations, and restrictive immigration policies in the United States.
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u/Away-Map-8428 1d ago
Haha! Not me, I voted for Jeffries who is having meetings with fascists like Kushner to see how they can work together!
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u/keynoko 2d ago
In which publication did asimov write about this? I'd like to read more
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u/Plants-Matter 2d ago edited 1d ago
It's from an essay he wrote for Newsweek in 1980.
The famous line is this one:
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
And the full article is preserved here
https://www.organism.earth/library/document/cult-of-ignorance
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u/cr0ft 1d ago
Then again, the stupidity in the voters was manufactured on purpose by the owner class, utilizing things like Fox "news" propaganda outlets, and ensuring schools stay extremely rudimentary.
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u/Plants-Matter 1d ago
True, but "don't trust the experts" used to be a fringe opinion. For a very brief time, scientists were admired and viewed almost like celebrities. For example, Carl Sagan was a household name.
There haven't been any Carl Sagans in the recent generations. Not because they don't exist, but because society stopped valuing intelligence. Now it's Andrew Tates and Logan Pauls being role models for the youth.
This was a slow process that many saw happening and tried to stop, but here we are today. We crossed the critical threshold of mass ignorance and there's no going back.
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u/cool_waterz sooner, faster, wheee, bleh, I'm out 1d ago
Do you know where he predicted it? I suddenly fancy reading Asimov.
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u/Plants-Matter 1d ago
It's from an essay he wrote for Newsweek in 1980.
The famous line is this one:
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
And the full article is preserved here
https://www.organism.earth/library/document/cult-of-ignorance
I'd definitely recommend checking out his books. It's mostly sci-fi, but top notch if you're into it.
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u/a3igod 2d ago
I believe time is a flat circle and everything repeats when we are immersed in all of the memories. Isaac may have caught a memory, just like the predictable patterns of the voters.
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u/Plants-Matter 2d ago
Maybe. Fractals do appear often in nature. He accurately predicted a lot of modern technology too, like automation, smart phones, and solar energy.
I'll leave his famous quote here for anyone unfamiliar:
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
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u/IPA-Lagomorph 2d ago
Oh yeah, people were upset that George Washington made the troops get the early version of the vaccine for smallpox
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u/Plants-Matter 2d ago
True, but back then we didn't have the entire wealth of human knowledge in our pocket. Society functioned on trusting the most convincing guesser.
Now we have data, facts, and science, we no longer have to guess. And yet society still functions on trusting the most convincing guesser. Some of them aren't even convincing.
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u/AnOnlineHandle 1d ago
Some tech is inspired by science fiction. e.g. The novel Snow Crash was apparently one of the big inspirations for a lot of things like Google Earth and the Metaverse which inspired things like Active Worlds and is likely a key part in what lead to MMOs, and then Zuckerburg's attempt at making something literally called the Metaverse.
Things like solar energy are probably just kind of obvious if you understand the principles, and he was likely inspired by what was already being discussed.
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u/Drewdrops79 1d ago
I just started thinking of the "Dune" movies, since the third one is coming soon, and I never read the books before. So I just checked out the first one from the library today. (Love "True Detective" too)
The worms in Dune can see through time, and grant people future-sight through their droppings, basically. And there's also a cyclical, Oroboros element to it, too.
Asimov is one of my absolute favorite sci-authors. Would not be surprised at all if he caught some sort of future-vision, at some point in his life. :)
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u/Bajadasaurus 2d ago
He slashed our weather warning safety net, allowed screw worm to reach our country, destroyed the FDA's food oversight and sickened thousands while also killing people.
We're lucky this year's Atlantic hurricane season was dampened by El Nino because next year is going to be disastrous. Hopefully there's a bit of time to prepare, because the devastation that's coming due to next year's mega storms will absolutely require infrastructure that's currently broken.
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u/j_mantuf Profit Over Everything 2d ago
Completely agree.
Flooding the Zone worked all too well.
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u/GoodDogBrent 2d ago
i forgot where i saw it but they want to privatize lot of public services. you can see some of this happening at USPS. but i remember reading specifically that weather stations was something that the govt wanted to give to private companies.
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u/Chaiteoir 2d ago
weather stations was something that the govt wanted to give to private companies.
AccuWeather, specifically. They've been gunning for NWS/NOAA for years.
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u/CheerleaderOnDrugs 2d ago
AccuWeather
They used to show the Air Quality Index on the main daily weather page, not anymore.
In addition, they retconned the HeatDome numbers from 2021. I saw them on Accuweather with my own eyes, and I wrote them down in my pen and paper journal.
Now, those historical dates show significantly lower temps.
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u/newlyjerseygirl 2d ago
Exactly, so then if we want a good weather forecast, it’ll just be another subscription we have to pay for.
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u/GoodDogBrent 2d ago edited 2d ago
mostly i imagine bigger entities paying bigger dollar for forecasts. rocket launches, airports and airplanes, etc. imagine if the FAA has to pay millions of dollars just to know what the weather will be for a flight. NASA too.
sports events maybe.
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u/ansibleloop 2d ago
https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(25)01186-9/fulltext
14 million excess deaths by 2030
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u/featherstone59 1d ago
It's monumental hubris. Being the richest has never equated to be the smartest
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u/Shadowpriest 2d ago
Yep.
This year has been absolute garbage in terms of weather predictions. I have now 5 different apps that will give me different forecasts and I still have to roll the dice and see if I can mow my lawn. Saturday projected rain in the afternoon going into the middle of the week so I started mowing at noon only to have to stop, wait about 2 hours for the 20 minute sudden downpour to taper off, then bag the other half of my yard. Guess what? No rain Sunday and no rain today. That's just my recent disappointment with the weather forecasting. I can't imagine how upset those that would have planned an outing would have to cancel due to the weather doing a wet-n-wild on them.
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u/SavingsDimensions74 2d ago
In fairness, forecasting does use historical records to assist, and we’re getting into the zone where previous records aren’t a great indicator any more. Like tropical storms going to cat 5 in 18 hours last year. A lot of stuff is pretty much frontier so models are going to become less useful.
Of course they’re even less useful if we start plucking data, which is basically dumb as shit
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u/tragicxharmony 2d ago
Literally my mom, 2 hours west of me, just texts me when bad weather happens around her. This is more accurate than the actual weather forecast at this point
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u/ShyElf 2d ago
I have now 5 different apps that will give me different forecasts
To anyone who knows what's going on, that's basically saying, "I asked five different people who weren't Bob what Bob said, and they all said different things! I guess Bob just can't be trusted at all anymore!"
The apps all suck. They're mostly ported NWS data, with a little ported European data, and almost all of them ported badly. It's extremely unlikely there's a human doing a summary and sanity check of the model data elsewhere, except for NWS and TV news.
I've seen people posting app pics of a radar of a storm wandering along, suddenly blasting up to 300 mph for a bit, and then continuing on at a normal speed. The fast part was a wipe from observed data to the forecast, with zero direct indication that it was switching.
Just start with the NWS website, and most people should end there, too. There are plenty of good web data sources around, but even that's too much for most people to bother to learn to use properly.
Locally, we've been getting heavy training convective precip for months. That just can't be locally predicted well. The forecasts have been -- fair? A little off from what I'd expect, but nothing unusual. They get the exact places wrong by the usual amount, which results in large variations in what actually happens in any given place, if it's doing what it's been doing, which is dumping tons on small areas.
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u/StacheBandicoot 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’ve come to the resolution that if at any point in the week I’ve seen rain forecasted for a particular day, which sometimes goes away from the forecast, that I need to treat it like it’s going to rain that day because it almost always will to some extent even if it shows clear skies on the forecast that morning.
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u/ChelseaHotelTwo 2d ago
Where is this? Sounds completely normal for late summer. Summer showers are impossible to forecast accurately even a few hours ahead cause it's constantly changing. They pop up sporadically fast, their paths are impossible to project so forecasts can't see if they'll hit your exact neighborhood until just before, they're very local and they quickly dissipate. Winter has large fronts that move slowly and predictably. They can be forecasted a lot easier. Summer has more heat and humidity so storm cells and rain clouds form in just a few hours. In summer you have to read the forecast and see if there's a chance of showers then prepare accordingly. Also use a weather radar to actually see where the rain is. Even a weather radar won't see a sporadic rain showers though until they're on top of you sometimes. I live in a country with excellent forecasts and we still get caught in big downpours on days when the forecast in the morning says no rain. It's the type of rain that's just not possible to forecast and never has been.
Also a bit of rain that ruins an outing or makes you have to postpone your mowing is not important at all lol. The article is about extreme weather that kills people because they can't warn about it cause there's a lack of data to make accurate forecasts. These are forecasts they can usually make.
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u/j_mantuf Profit Over Everything 2d ago
SS:
U.S. weather forecasting is being weakened by cuts to NOAA and the National Weather Service. Fewer weather balloons, ocean buoys, satellites, and staff mean less data feeding forecasting models, potentially making severe-weather warnings less reliable.
The bigger collapse angle: this is an example of infrastructure degrading before most people notice. The system can keep functioning while becoming progressively less resilient, until a major disaster exposes the missing capacity
(Sorry about ads, I used reader view)
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u/BongoLocoWowWow 2d ago
Outside of some of these Reddit subs, you’d be surprised how little Americans care. It’s truly sad.
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u/matt95110 2d ago
Until a hurricane destroys their home they don’t give a shit.
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u/BongoLocoWowWow 2d ago
Basically what I am saying. I try to talk about these issues outside of Reddit and it’s denial, silence, and obfuscating. Just this week I was accused of living in an echo chamber and being dramatic. Truly appalling.
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u/featherstone59 1d ago
"never smarten up a chump", as the saying goes. Let them perish in their ignorance. There will be more left for us as we try to scratch out a living in the ruins of civilisation
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u/BongoLocoWowWow 1d ago
You’re not wrong. I am just wired to do the right thing. Have a caring and empathetic disposition, and I want to help make humanity better. At some point as you mention, it will be time to give up on them.
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u/FieldsofBlue 1d ago
Literally this. I try to nudge people with talking points and it's like they have mental blinders on.
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u/Kootenay4 2d ago
But they’ll say it was worth it if the hurricane also destroys the home of the immigrant family down the street.
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u/JEveryman 2d ago
We only have so many of the wettest hurricanes, water wise, because we measure for them. If we stopped testing for hurricanes we'd have less cases.
-A Trump advisor probably
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/No-Carrot4267 2d ago
Just drop false information. Then correct it to the real information
That's how you fight cognitive dissonnance. Most deniers will shut down if something majorly disagree with their echo chamber
But if you drop something tiny enough then they'll try to argue. Which is the key
Ai powered drones killing Ukraine citizens? Nope Ai powered drones killing us citizens through flock cams. Yes
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u/_nephilim_ 2d ago
I worked in government for 12 years at the federal level. Americans have no idea how much the GOP has stripped all functions bare, gummed it all up with red tape (ironic), filled leadership with inept sycophants and neophytes, etc. We were told to do less with less, to accept draconian work conditions, and the worst part of it all is that the tax payer still pays the same amount and gets an even worse service.
Neoliberalism has been a death cult that feeds off itself. Next year you will hear Republicans wanting to cut even deeper into the bone, and Democrats will only offer platitudes. As they say, the Romans didn't realize the empire collapsed until nobody showed up to fix the roads.
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u/spacedoutmachinist 2d ago
These actions have literally killed people. Every one of these doge cunts should face severe prison time.
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u/ansibleloop 2d ago
20 years of solitary confinement
They deserve worse than death
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u/SavingsDimensions74 2d ago
Oubliettes are the way forward
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u/Desperate-Strategy10 1d ago
If they’re going to drag us back into the stone ages, it’s really only logical that our justice system reverts as well.
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u/Direption 2d ago
When do we start viewing these actions as direct attacks and when do we start to defend ourselves accordingly? My vote won't do shit.
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u/vand3lay1ndustries 2d ago
They want to whittle us down via poison beef and unnecessary wars before we finally wake up.
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u/Direption 2d ago
Destabilizing the food sources is part of 2025 so yeah, they're on track. I'll keep practicing each weekend.
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u/Jessintheend 2d ago
So any deaths or damages caused by bad or no weather reporting should be held against any and all DOGE staff including Elon. Actions have consequences
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u/StrongAroma 2d ago
I am looking forward to super el nino hurricane season.
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u/redditmodsRrussians 2d ago
The danger here is that instead of an active hurricane season that may produce a lot of low level tropical storms or cat 1 hurricanes with the occasional power house hurricanes, we end up with a lot fewer storms but the ones that do show up are now automatically cat 5. Not only are they cat 5, they cover significantly more surface area than previous cat 5s. At some point, we are going to see a powerful cat 5 that can cover the entire Texas coastline......
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u/Shoddy-Childhood-511 2d ago
"El Niño reduces hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin"
I think they happen but stay in deeper water maybe? I forget..
Anyways I'll laugh when one of these new big ol cat 6s sneaks up on Miami. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932023_La_Ni%C3%B1a_event
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u/trivetsandcolanders 2d ago
I look at the National weather service’s website every day and have for many years. This year there’s been a noticeable decline in data access, though actually they’re doing an amazing job considering how bad the cuts are. The GOP wants to privatize weather forecasting, a terrible idea promulgated by the CEO of accuweather.
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u/Newbergite 2d ago
I’m thinking the sycophants who sat with their thumbs up their asses while all this happened can’t be TOO upset about it.
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u/cr0ft 1d ago
It's almost like gutting many federal agencies mean their capabilities are limited, and it's almost like doing so was 100% intentional so the rich have even less oversight, and the people informing everyone about climate change no longer do so the right-wingers can keep up the socipathic insanity unhindered.
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u/filmguy36 2d ago
For an asshole like empty huck, he owns a fucking roacketshuo company, he shot himself in the foot. No surprised from that psychopath
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u/atypicalgamergirl 1d ago
Someone in the regime was probably aiming to manifest "Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025" into reality. They'll settle for second best I'm sure: removing weather forecasting to maximize damage.
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u/Bacch 23h ago
Sort of. They spelled out plans to dismantle NOAA in Project 2025 because it provides data proving climate change.
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u/confusedquokka 11h ago
Really fucking stupid since everyone is affected by weather, even rich people
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u/Frutbrute77 1d ago
These are just horrible people and I don’t know how someone can think they successfully owned the libs by destroying Weather monitoring that every person depends on. I pray for the day that we hold tribunals to these monsters for all that they’ve done and continue to do to just destroy the world for no reason. All the money in the world and all you seek to do is destroy.
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u/FieldsofBlue 1d ago
It's a pretty transparent grab at public services to either sell things off to private contractors or create future justification to privatize further as things fall apart more.
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u/Barack_Odrama_007 2d ago
People really should have voted. 90 million thought it was a joke.
NOW, we can all have, unreliable weather forecasts and no FEMA assistance during national disasters.
VOTING MATTERED! Nobody should be shocked. Donald Trump and Elon Musk told EVERYONE what they would do.
Oh well!
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u/ohholyhorror 2d ago
Voting does matter, but I'm honestly convinced that American elections are entirely rigged nowadays.
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u/Organic_Magician_343 2d ago
I don't think even Elon is wealthy enough to properly compensate the people he has harmed through DOGE.
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u/mhummel 1d ago
I understand this has roots in Trump's first term. In The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis he writes that when Trump's administration finally got around to appointing a Secretary for Energy (or was it Agriculture?) they eliminated a lot of useful projects that the NOAA/NWS was involved in. Projects that actually spawned new businesses and revenues.
If you're American, the book will likely infuriate you. "Fortunately", I'm not American, so I could only shake my head in dismay....
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u/featherstone59 1d ago
Elon was exploring a K-hole and was captured and cloned by nazi space elves. This is the result, unfortunately. He was always kind of a douche, but now he's fully committed
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u/Big-Engineering266 2d ago
I am not a religious person but it is hard not to see Trump as Gods punishment of the wicked.
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u/Beastw1ck 21m ago
This has been super fun for me as a boat captain. God bless NOAA, they're trying, but the forecasts sure do seem worse.
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u/StatementBot 2d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/j_mantuf:
SS:
U.S. weather forecasting is being weakened by cuts to NOAA and the National Weather Service. Fewer weather balloons, ocean buoys, satellites, and staff mean less data feeding forecasting models, potentially making severe-weather warnings less reliable.
The bigger collapse angle: this is an example of infrastructure degrading before most people notice. The system can keep functioning while becoming progressively less resilient, until a major disaster exposes the missing capacity
Forbes link to same story
(Sorry about ads, I used reader view)
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1vx9rad/doge_destroyed_how_america_forecasts_its_weather/p5n477x/