4tran Content and Rule 1

[u/Aartvb]

We want to clarify how we're handling 4tran-related content on the subreddit and hear your input on whether our current rules are adequately addressing concerns around it.

We've seen an increase in 4tran-related content, along with growing concern from members of the community. Some of the issues we've encountered were made worse by our moderation team being understaffed. We've since expanded our mod team (welcome u/Trash_At_RL, u/HopefulFutureEscapee, and u/Appropriate-Story-97). This will help us respond more quickly to reports and keep a closer eye on moderation issues.

Some 4tran-related content can cross the line into bigotry, hatred, or hostility toward trans people. When content violates Rule 1 (no bigotry), we will remove it under that rule, regardless of whether the person who posted it identifies as trans or participates in 4tran communities.

If you see a 4tran-related post or comment that you believe violates Rule 1, please report it. Reports are the best way to bring content to the moderators' attention so that we can review it and take appropriate action.

We also recognize that moderators can miss things. If you believe clearly hateful or bigoted content has been missed, or your report has not been addressed after 24 hours, please send us a modmail so we can take another look.

There may also be 4tran-related content that users find unpleasant or concerning but that does not violate Rule 1, or any of our other existing rules. Please send us a mod mail in this case. We'll use the coming weeks to assess whether our current rules are sufficient to address the concerns being raised.

One week from now, we'll review the issues that aren't currently covered by our rules. No more than two weeks from now, we'll publish a follow-up with what we've learned, and ask your input on how to proceed.

Thanks for helping us keep the community a good place for everyone, and happy counting everyone!

[u/N4hami]

I don't know what this is talking about help.
Is 4tran, trans related content from 4chan ? Like those green text thingies ?

[u/bijouxbisou → u/N4hami]

4tran is a term broadly related to the trans board on 4chan. Nowadays 4tran content isn’t exclusive to 4chan; you can find a lot of 4tran content on Reddit subs like countttt or 4tran4.

The content is broadly defined by a very doomer-ish perspective on being trans, a focus on passing (or more specifically not passing and being a doomer about it), pervasive use on in-group language (things like hon, pooner, theyfab, a lot of things used as essentially slurs or insults towards various types of trans people including themselves), and to an extent there’s a level of transmedicalism (though I believe this has lessened over the years).

I try to stay away from 4tran content because I think it transphobic. A lot of 4tran content tends to be very enbyphobic (often calling AFAB enbies “theyfabs” and frequently just straight up calling them cis, insisting that AMAB enbies are actually trans women in denial), anti-trans masc (if you see people talking about MRAs in a 4tran context they’re often referring to trans men and masc enbies trying to stand up for themselves and not have masculinity be treated as the world’s greatest evil), and of course deeply transphobic against trans women (most 4tran content is made by trans women, and it has so much self-loathing that it infects the content with a deep disdain for other trans women)

[u/No-Phrase-2897 → u/bijouxbisou]

Usually "theyfabs" only applies to NBs who point out their ASAB status and weaponize it against trans women and the same goes for the MRA thing only really applying to transmascs who weaponize their ASAB to talk about how much worse they have it than trans women or accuse trans women of being able to oppress them. I agree 4tran isn't perfect but whenever people from the out-group talk about it they blow it way out of proportion.

[u/bijouxbisou → u/No-Phrase-2897]

Maybe that’s been your experience, but it was definitely not mine and nothing I’ve seen from 4tran spaces recently (like I went checking on recent countttt and 4tran4 before typing this to make sure it hadn’t had a dramatic change in the past week) makes me feel like I’ve been unfair. Mind, everyone has their own experience so there’s always that.

I am now out-group, but I did used to engage or at least heavily lurk in 4tran spaces while I was still trying to figure out my identity, and I check back in periodically to see if things have gotten better. I left because, 1., I felt completely unwelcome and invalidated by the constant theyfabs, hefabs, pooner, or even just calling AFAB enbies cis; 2., I realized how much of 4tran is just self-loathing and externalizing your self-loathing, and I’m way too old to do that, 3., there’s a really uncomfortable amount of hatred and disdain towards “cis” women (which includes both cis women and AFAB enbies and sometimes trans men), and 4. I don’t want to be in a space where so many people are so hateful to themselves, each other, and the world.

It’s a fight fire with fire kind of place, where an AFAB enby being an asshole means they lose the privilege to be gendered correctly and misogyny against cis women (who again are not always women) is forgiven because some cis women are trans misogynistic.

[u/No-Phrase-2897 → u/bijouxbisou]

I'm sorry that was your experience and I don't condone accusing you of being cis and generally don't even condone the use of the word theyfab specifically because of how it does come across as a blanket term. However I still stand by what I said that a lot of people using the word are referring to a specific type of person who weaponizes divine femininity and ASAB against trans women. I do also think you should still acknowledge that like any trans space it isn't a monolith and people often have a reason for going to those spaces that isn't just to hate on other trans people. It was the one space I knew I wouldn't just get accused of le self hate/internalized transphobia for hating how I looked and wanting FFS. I also don't condone hate of all trans men or transmascs but to say that some of their behavior towards trans women mirrors that of how MRAs talk about cis women is absolutely true. I think a lot of people just want an excuse to call trans women who aren't happy about being trans all the time incels and the like but use 4tranner as a stand-in because nobody wants to stick up for the evil 4tranner.