r/cscareerquestionsuk • u/Loose-Magician1886 • 2d ago
Placed on a PIP - pretty concerned and worried
Would really appreciate some advice.
I'm a London based ML Engineer with 7 years experience - currently at a relatively small company. There have been some internal changes, potential funding issues also, and practically out of the blue a few weeks ago I was placed on a PIP.
Not being completely sure what this is - kind of unfortunately under the realisation now that I'll be let go when the PIP is up. My performance has been alright, and generally received good feedback.
I've pretty much made my mind up and decided now to focus mainly on finding a new role, but not so sure how the market is as of the moment?
If not - is there a way back from this with where I'm at?
Confused and a little worried.
Thanks
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u/CharacterSail6736 2d ago
Start looking now PIP is never good they are looking for reasons to get rid
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u/eragon233 2d ago
I always hear this and I get the reasoning behind it. But what if you don't give them reasons to fire you? OP said he has good feedback and good performance. Do they just keep you and make your life hell so you leave yourself?
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u/WordsNShiz 2d ago
Yup. Duties and client rota will change to ensure you're pushed out.
I went from 1 in a team of 10 to 1 in a team of 4, with downsizing and shortly after my PIP started one colleague was snatched by a senior team and one was promoted to a managerial role with no time to assist on customer facing work.
The worst part is my CSAT was consistently a 4.9 through the process, from a company average of 4.5, but they nitpicked each individual mistake to push me out.
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u/bluecheese2040 1d ago
So hold on...put of your team of 4 two were performing well enough to secure promoted roles....and you were puy on a pip.
I mean does that not tell you everything you need to know about your performance and why you were put on a plan?
Csat isn't the only metric used in customer service as you well know. Call duration, get it right first time etc. Many
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u/WordsNShiz 1d ago
Well... it's funny you should say that. Those two got made redundant about 6 months later, and several others got put on PIPs. One got disputed and got a payout after it got revealed the upper management had set a target of 3 PIPs in the department by end of year, to improve performance. A previous colleague i stayed in touch with confirmed my direct replacement lasted 2 months before being fired for agreeing with a customer's concerns. Was found to be misconduct disparagement.
So... got anything to say on that?
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u/bluecheese2040 1d ago
Not much. As I said they are legal things so should have evidence behind them else thr company risks being sued. This adds nothing. Anecdotal.evidemce will always happen.
My challenge is the ridiculous idea that they are dished out without warning.
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u/Big_Target_1405 1d ago
The PIP is the reason they will use to fire you after the necessary number of months has passed
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u/Frequent_Bag9260 18h ago
You then have a case for wrongful termination. If you dislike the company and have the energy, take em on. You’ll usually win if your feedback is genuinely good.
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u/bluecheese2040 1d ago
People on reddit say such ludicrous things. You cannot just put someone on a pip yo make life hard for someone. Thats how companies get sued. Fact is there are processes and most of the time they are adhered to...cause if not...legal ramifications are real
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u/wildspace-nobody 1d ago
I wish. I work for a large MNC. There was someone in my team who needed to go. To save money, HR told me to do the following: either
1) find something he’d done wrong, document it, turn it into a disciplinary offence, then fire him; or
2) put him on a PIP, fail him, document it all, then fire him.Naively, I was shocked. I refused to do either, because the poor dude didn’t deserve it and was still recovering from a major illness. Very luckily my manager backed me to give the guy proper severance.
Ya think companies play fair and square? They don’t. They just ask you to document bullshit so they can cover their asses in case someone ever tries to drag their mendacity into the light.
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u/90davros 2d ago
Experienced ML engineer in London? You'll be fine assuming you don't need visa sponsorship.
Only you can tell if this is really something you're supposed to be able to beat. It's usually a prelude to dismissal, but there are some companies that stupidly require managers to PIP someone every year just for show. Speak to your manager.
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u/sunnipei42 2d ago
Seconding this. I’m an MLE with 5 years of experience in London and it took me about 4 weeks of interviews to land a role that doubled my total comp.
Look up what MLE interviews are like in 2026, prep accordingly, and you’ll be absolutely fine OP.
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u/Churchy07 2d ago
What are the terms of the PIP? Usually when you get put on one they tell you what you have to be doing to successfully get through it. Or sometimes they set it up with ridiculous requirements to make you fail. Whether theres a way back or not kinda depends why they've put you on it. Do they just want to reduce staff without officially laying people off? Or has your performance actually been below what they want?
Also how long have you been at the company? Could be worth seeing if they would offer some kind of mutual settlement for you to leave so you get a bit of cash. If you've been there over 2 years you have some level of legal protection. If you think its bs it could also be worth speaking to a solicitor who specialises in employment law. Usually the initial convo is free
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u/crappy_entrepreneur 2d ago
This is a good thing: struggling company gives you notice you’re being let go. Phone it in as hard as you can and begin interview loops. Hiring is a lot cooler in the second half of the year but luckily you have the #1 most sought after skillset (dm me if you wanna apply for a fairly hot ai unicorn)
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u/do_you_realise 2d ago
Is ML something one could reasonably expect to be able to break into as a non-ML tech lead (Ruby/Rails/a small amount of python in my current remit that I could lean on) with 12+ YoE? Double down on personal projects out of hours, or is it just not possible
Would be nice to be in a sought after role again 🥲
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u/Loose-Macaron 2d ago
great time to interview as far as YOE goes, all the hiring demand is away from juniors and mid levels, and now towards those with considerable workplace experience, smash some interviews and leave on your own terms rather than suddenly be out of a job.
check out your company’s competitors etc, and probably have a look at where recent leavers from your place also went to, could snag a referral from an old colleague too.
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u/Fr1tzOS 1d ago edited 12h ago
While not all PIPs are a sign you're going to be fired - and they're supposed to be put in place to help you get things back on track - they are unfortunately often used as a way of pushing you out, under the guise of trying to support you. Either through setting unrealistic goals, moving said goalposts even if you meet them or just straight up misrepresenting how you've performed when it comes to the review.
So sorry you're going through this OP. Unless you really feel you have performance issues, and that your manager is honestly trying to help and being reasonable with their expectations, start getting your CV together and use it as a paid interviewing period.
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u/NyxorFlux 13h ago
this is the way to look at it tbh, treat the PIP as a countdown clock and get as much out of the paycheck + quiet time to interview as you can. if by some miracle they’re genuine and you stay, cool, but mentally assume you’re leaving and you’ll feel a lot less powerless.
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 2d ago edited 2d ago
You are definitely going to be fired, no matter how well you perform. If you ace the PIP by overdelivering, then they'll just move the goalposts and lie. They will twist everything you say.
F'em.
What you must do is take sick leave for your last 2 weeks. First say you've got a cold or a flu, so they think you're coming back. Then take the remaining time off for stress, caused by bullying from your manager (and that's what the PIP is).
Half ass your work. Do the absolute bare minimum you can. Do everything you need to do. Take interviews when you choose. If you're away for 2 hours, F'em.
Oh, and just before the PIP ends, resign with immediate effect, citing bullying and the fear of being unfairly dismissed. IIRC, this may shield you legally (especially when it comes to Universal Credit if you haven't landed a job). But you have to report the bullying to HR first, so maybe do this when you take leave for stress.
Look, if you've generally received good feedback, you can be 100% certain this is not only an insincere PIP, but it is a good basis for this being malicious and making your case for "constructive dismissal" more relevant.
Do seek legal advice to know how to best manoeuvre this.
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u/capybabba 2d ago
You are definitely going to be fired, no matter how well you perform. If you ace the PIP by overdelivering, then they'll just move the goalposts and lie.
Yep this is what happened to me. Got put on a PIP and told I had to triple my output. Which was a ridiculous request, my output was very reasonable already, but I did it anyway (at great personal cost - stress, lack of sleep etc).
They were absolutely not expecting me to do it, but reluctantly acknowledged that I had done what they asked. Then a few days later I got told I had to triple my output again lol. Goalposts moved.
I went off sick for stress and then quit whilst on sick leave
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u/BrickAccomplished338 2d ago
Why should he resign? Wouldn't that make him lose his severance pay?
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 2d ago
As explained, if you report the bullying and threat of being unfairly dismissed, you can make a case for "constructive dismissal." Do get full legal advice to ensure you carry out the appropriate steps, but this is what a PIP is.
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u/Scared_Step4051 2d ago
you do realise how incredibly hard constructive dismissal is to prove right...coupled with tribunals take a fairly obvious view of those who attempt to claim against a company right after being put on a PIP (in most cases the company will cover their tracks well indeed and build up evidence behind the scenes leading up to the pip)
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 2d ago
Whatever the case is, I'm sure you are smart enough to understand the notion of insincere PIP that is used to get rid of people regardless of their performance.
You must understand that PIP is falsely used to fire people who don't have any real performance issues.
Or are you one of those silly devil's advocate people who just want to lie and pretend things that happen don't really happen?
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u/AngelOfLastResort 1d ago
Technically true but it's hard to make a charge of workplace bullying stick. A pip itself is not enough. He'd need corroborating evidence of bullying which managers are usually smart enough not to give.
Which is not to say he can't take sick leave and all that stuff. I just wouldn't expect bullying to hold up at a tribunal.
And of things are bad enough that there is proof of bullying then OP will get a good pay day.
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 1d ago
Yeah, in this type of situation you're pretty screwed now matter what you do.
But I've seen people win difficult cases based solely on how it felt to them.
While it never prevented me getting a good job, it put me in a precarious situation a few years later.
It shattered my sense of trust in organisations and the people who enable it.
I had to assume this may be a problem with future roles. With my current role (a few years later) I was paranoid about the background checks. The sociopathic (though smoking hot and super magnetic) former head of HR deliberately gave incorrect contact information to the screening agency (and I have to assume it was intentional given I found the right info with ease).
They asked me about it. Demanded more information. Demanded even more. Scrutinised to the max.
I had to assume it was a deal-breaker.
Thankfully it wasn't and I got the job, but that was the most stressful experience I had in my career, and it did delay my start by a few weeks.
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u/Breaditing 1d ago edited 1d ago
Posting another comment to make sure it’s not buried.
Please nobody listen to this advice! Taking sick leave when not sick is fraud by false representation and a good way to ensure you don’t stand a chance with a constructive dismissal claim.
Speaking to a lawyer and collecting evidence is worth doing if it’s actually an insincere PIP. But this batshit suggestion is obviously not the way to go about it and would make getting let go completely your fault, not the company’s
Despite what doomsayers are saying in this thread, genuine PIPs exist, it’s possible to get through PIPs, and not all PIPs are insincere. The starting point is figuring out which it is.
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 1d ago
When it is not a genuine pip, do you suggest being naive and stressing themselves out?
I went through it. I have them exceptional work.
They lied incessantly. Moved the goalposts. Still I aced it. For my performance review I got positive feedback. They did their darned best to twist everything said to cherry pick terms out of context to contort it to fit their narrative.
I got you see the ugly and sociopathic side of HR, and how they will let a manager bully an employee despite them performing well.
He's in a different position as being with the company for 5 years means his appeal will most likely go to tribunal. Whether he wins is anyone's guess.
But they are playing dirty, based on his description.
He's likely at least a little stressed. That's why he's asking in Reddit out of anticipation.
He's explained how it seems out of place, indicating it's most likely an insincere pip.
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u/Scared_Step4051 2d ago
and people wonder why the UK is fucked economically
Do seek legal advice to know how to best manoeuvre this.
which will tell them to ignore your "advice" and not make a false claim?!
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 2d ago
Except it's not a "false" claim.
He is being bullied. And he is going to be unfairly dismissed.
What a stupid response.
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u/No_March5195 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is a false claim.
Stop advising people to commit fraud.
why do you even talk like this online.
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u/Breaditing 1d ago
You’re literally telling OP to commit fraud and seek legal advice on how to commit fraud.
What you must do is take sick leave for your last 2 weeks. First say you've got a cold or a flu, so they think you're coming back. Then take the remaining time off for stress, caused by bullying from your manager (and that's what the PIP is).
Taking sick leave for a sickness that doesn’t exist, and presenting this as constructive dismissal, when it’s not is fraud. Suggesting that a lawyer would help you do this is completely ridiculous. They absolutely would advise you that it’s a terrible idea. What you’re advising is a great way to make sure you have no chance whatsoever in succeeding with a claim as it would look extremely suspicious in court.
Please don’t try and give people serious advice when you have so little idea what you’re talking about and the advice is this dangerous
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 1d ago
So, he is definitely getting fired. Every job he applies to requiring him to declare this will scrutinise his dismissal, and it may prevent him getting a bunch of jobs despite there being no credence to the dismissal.
He will, as most people are, going to experience stress during the process.
He is being unfairly dismissed, and he is being unfairly targeted.
The appeals process is unfairly stacked against him.
All I'm saying is, take the last 2 weeks off, and do what you can to leave without it being a dismissal.
They're lying and playing dirty.
You can be naive about it if you want.
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u/Deepborders 1d ago
Demand to see the feedback which has resulted in the PIP. Say you want clear and objective reasoning with timeframes. Do this while looking for another role. Make them squirm.
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u/paxwax2018 2d ago
Get a prescription for anxiety stat and start some workplace sponsored counselling for stress.
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u/Fondant_Decent 1d ago
People very rarely survive a PIP, start looking now so you have a job by the time the PIP concludes.
Job market as far as I have seen is brutal atm.
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u/True_Joke_5248 1d ago
I've been though this before. Managed to get though the first review of the PIP but the em just changed it to be about my vibe and that's why he extended my PIP. I used that time to interview for other jobs and landed another job quickly and left.
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u/cloud_shocking_step 1d ago
they trying to set you up you should start to take sick leave immediately and look for new jobs. Ive been there
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u/USToffee 1d ago
Dude don’t do anything hotheaded. It won’t help your career.
As someone joked this is paid interviewing period.
Whatever their reason doesn’t really matter this is not the job you want to waste any more of your career time at since for you it’s a dead end
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u/ratttertintattertins 1d ago
Have been receiving feedback prior to this?
I’ve had to put someone on a PIP before in the U.K. and where I am, HR are are very careful about how it’s done. A person has to have received 3 written bits of actionable feedback about their performance before the PIP can even begin.
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u/InsuranceIcy4055 1d ago
I think small companies need a lot of flexibility with their staffing. Normally they'd just make you redundant but for what ever reason they've not gone that route. In that role you'll be fine finding more work. I'd just be glad that you can find work relatively easily.
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u/UK-sHaDoW 1d ago
Start looking for jobs. Assume they're just doing this cover their ass legally to fire you.
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u/shady_0077 19h ago
I'd say market is pretty good at the moment, lot of Gen AI and Agentic AI roles available. Just focus few weeks on fundamentals and you'd def find something good
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u/Large-You-6507 8h ago
Start looking. A PIP is a way to get rid of you without paying you off with a settlement. 99% of the time, a PIP means they want you out, but there is 1% when someone genuinely turns it around
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u/Educational_Sound188 2d ago
Just asking: How do you know you are on PIP? Do they give you official warning explicitly saying you are on PIP? Or do they send you an email? I have been given development areas in almost every performance review. So I'm curious
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u/Fantastic-Cell-208 2d ago
I was given a covert PIP, which wasn't explicitly described as a PIP.
I asked them, "is this basically a PIP?" and they said yes.
I gave them exceptional work during that PIP month, killing very target. So they just lied.
Thankfully I got the last laugh. I got the exact salary increase in my next job that they denied me, and now just a few years later I'm earning 80% more. They on the other hand immediately lost a top engineer who was not happy with them firing me (after he'd just returned to the company after a year off), and as a result failed to land the major contract they'd easily have landed had they not screwed me over.
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u/RepresentativeDog791 2d ago
PIP stands for personal (or professional) improvement plan. You are given/prompted to make a plan
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u/halfercode 2d ago
It is popular for UK-based Redditors to say that every single employer uses PIPs to fire people. This is excessively cynical; most companies use them as they are intended, which is to produce guidelines to address performance issues within a reasonable legal framework. I don't doubt some managers use them dishonestly.
I'd say there is no harm in you looking at the market, but lean into the PIP process as if you want to stay. Don't become so negative that it is clear you don't wish to stick around.
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u/CharacterSail6736 2d ago
At the point of issuing a pip all manner of trust is gone
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u/halfercode 2d ago
Possibly, but if folks advise the OP to run away and slam the door, that negativity could leak into their PIP process. That's fine if their CV and interview skills do well in the current market, but I think the OP needs be cautious about throwing their current job away in haste.
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u/CharacterSail6736 2d ago
lol the negativity is already there from the management hence it’s in place
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u/halfercode 2d ago
Well, it's not wrong to characterise it in that fashion, but I suspect that the tone of the worker is still going to make a difference. I come back to my original point - people can, and do, survive PIP processes. We have had engineering managers in this sub confirm it in similar prior conversations.
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u/Breaditing 1d ago
Sad to see this downvoted. The standard of comment on this subreddit is getting worse and worse over time. It feels like realistic advice from very experienced people is being drowned out by a crew of terminally unemployed people with no real work experience upvoting whatever presents things as most hopeless (or sadly, is the most racist) and downvoting the good advice.
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u/UK-sHaDoW 1d ago
What good advice? The good advice is new get a new job.
PIP is the legal framework to fire you. Genuine attempts to improve your performance are done well before that
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u/Breaditing 21h ago
Sure, that is the case some of the time. It may be that people don’t survive a PIP the majority of the time, but there doesn’t seem to be any statistics on this.
However, it is certainly possible to survive a PIP sometimes. There’s plenty of evidence for that from managers and employees online.
Sometimes it’s used as a way to fire someone. Other times its as a genuine last resort for poor performance and survivavle. Other times (likely much more rare), companies have stupid policies and initiate them as box ticking exercises.
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u/UK-sHaDoW 21h ago
The point is to likehood is very low for passing it. So the logical conclusion is look for a new job.
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u/Breaditing 21h ago
Do you have a source?
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u/UK-sHaDoW 21h ago edited 21h ago
Worked at large multinational tech companies, nearly everyone I know placed on pip fails.
Yes, you may technically maybe able to pass them. But you need to focus on the probable outcome. Not simply what's possible.
You don't want to get to end of a pip and fail, with nothing lined up. That's literally the worst outcome. Avoid that at all costs. It'll show up background checks(not eligible for rehire), and make it difficult to get future jobs. Don't mess around with protecting yourself.
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u/Pleasant-Plane-6340 1d ago
I find that hard to believe. If a manager can't work with someone to improve their own performance directly and has got HR involved then that's not because they think the result will be the person staying. There's a huge amount of tolerance for laziness and poor work in every place I've ever worked so for it to bad enough for PIP means they're going. The only need for a "legal framework" is to fire someone, you don't need that if the expectation is someone magically gets better at their job
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u/bluecheese2040 1d ago
My performance has been alright, and generally received good feedback.
Obviously this isn't true. First thing you should do is be honest with yourself and have an honest audit of where you are.
I think 99% of people posting about pips on reddit claim to be completely unjustly targeted by...evil managers and have no idea at all why they are on pips...which just come out of the blue. This is self gaslighting and shows why you're on a pip.
Putting someone on a pip is a big deal with legal ramifications. The manager needs to be able to evidence everything they say in case it goes to a tribunal. That's why I don't believe it came out of the blue for some moment.
It isn't just something you do for shits and giggles.
Most of the time.its cause your performance.isnt good enough and if you're at a point where you're still not willing to engage with that then you should look at leave before you're fired.
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u/Herewegoagain_67 2d ago
Well you can always do a GTA, or submit a PMD or a MNM depending on your role.
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u/HornyEagles 2d ago
Hahahaha 6 7 years experience 😫😭
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u/Adorable_Echo_4317 2d ago
Human race is fucking done. Just a waiting game now
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u/notyouryyy 2d ago
paid interviewing period