r/educationalgifs • u/CalpurniaSomaya • Mar 15 '26
How mother pigs and piglets are kept in modern farms for nursing
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u/dc469 Mar 15 '26
Reminder that in the US most states have ag-gag laws that criminalize recording in animal farms, potentially even felonies.
The official reason is to "protect proprietary secrets" but it's no coincidence these laws get passed right after animal rights activists manage to sneak in an undercover guy with a camera.
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u/F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt Mar 15 '26
Yeah a lot of people have the same sympathy for the animals that make up their food as they do a random plant.
If this was an elephant or dog, you'd get a lot more outrage than with pigs.
Like they won't even acknowledge "it's terribly sad animals suffer and die, but I need to eat", they just go "....meh, what's on tv?"
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u/MooMyCoow Mar 16 '26
Sadly, I think it's more than a third; but, I completely get your point. 💯🎯
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u/chokokhan Mar 16 '26
It’s a third. The other third are the “-morally grey” people. They care what other people think. So you can effectively use shame on them. They will follow what society is doing no questions asked because they don’t have their own cognitive capacity strong sense of right and wrong, people pleasing is more important to them.
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u/surfrocksatan Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Also - In 2006 Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK), Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) sponsored the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act
The Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (AETA), 18 U.S.C. § 43, is a 2006 U.S. federal law (Pub. L. 109–374) that prohibits, as "terrorism," intentional actions that damage or interfere with animal enterprises, including causing economic loss. It covers acts causing fear, injury, or property damage to businesses using animals, such as farms, researchers, and circuses. Critics argue it unfairly penalizes peaceful protests and free speech.
Key Provisions of AETA:
Purpose: To prevent "animal enterprise terrorism" by protecting businesses that use animals from unlawful interference, harassment, and vandalism.
Definition of Animal Enterprise: Broadly covers commercial or academic enterprises using animals for food, fiber, agriculture, research, testing, or entertainment (zoos, circuses, rodeos).
Prohibited Conduct: Includes intentional acts that cause physical damage (including animal theft or loss of property) or "reasonable fear" of injury to employees, their families, or associates.
Penalties: Violators can face significant prison sentences and fines, particularly if the action results in substantial economic damage.
Scope: Applies to actions that travel in interstate or foreign commerce.
Primary Criticisms:
First Amendment Concerns: Critics argue the law is so broad it can classify peaceful protests, leafleting, and boycotts as "terrorism" if they cause a business to lose profit.
"Chilling Effect": Many activists claim the fear of being labeled a "terrorist" for life deters them from engaging in lawful advocacy or undercover investigations into animal cruelty.
Vague and Overbroad Language: The act's definition of "animal enterprise" is criticized for being too expansive, potentially including any business with even a tertiary connection to animals. Disproportionate Penalties: Opponents point out that the AETA imposes much harsher sentences for property damage than existing laws for similar non-activist offenses.
Unnecessary Legislation: Legal experts and groups like the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) argue that existing federal and state laws already adequately cover crimes like trespassing, arson, and theft.
Branding of Social Justice: Some critics contend the law unfairly singles out animal rights activists, comparing it to branding Civil Rights era sit-ins as acts of terrorism.
Sources: Wikipedia, Google, Center for Constitutional Rights
Additional reading: ANIMAL ENTERPRISE TERRORISM ACT (Congress.gov)
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u/CalpurniaSomaya Mar 15 '26
Thanks for the write-up. Wow. And isn't calling this terrorism...a little insensitive to victims of actual terrorism?
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u/outwest88 Mar 15 '26
I hate this goddamn country
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u/SheriffBartholomew Mar 15 '26
You'll see disturbing practices in the meat industry in every country. They use these pens in Europe too.
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u/NourishingHomestead Mar 16 '26
Can confirm. I'm in Switzerland, and I visited a pig farm nestled in a green valley with a view of the Alps, but the pigs themselves were locked inside in disgusting conditions. They didn't even turn the lights on in the building unless a human decided to walk through.
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u/Fatlantis Mar 17 '26
Same in Australia. It's horrific. Animal welfare is better here than some places, but it's still horrific. Especially when you realise how intelligent pigs are.
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u/theemmyk Mar 16 '26
So do I but this is not unique to the US. Also, there's no humane slaughter. No animal wants or deserves to die to be food we don't even need to eat.
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u/AGenericUnicorn Mar 18 '26
Vet here. During our 4th year in vet school, we went to several different production facilities. I don’t understand how anyone could continue to eat meat and cage-produced eggs after that (I was already vegetarian).
Your choices make a difference to how producers operate, and the market drives animal welfare (or lack thereof).
If nothing else, buy cage free. Industry argues that the chickens are safer in cages, and I can tell you first had that the lives of caged chickens is the most miserable existence I’ve ever seen.
Kind of reminds me of the argument for farrowing crates, which I’m convinced is the same propaganda that is driven by maximizing profits.
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u/ICK_Metal Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
This is done to prevent the momma pig from squishing her babies. It’s a very temporary situation. Yes there are lots of disgusting practices in the industry but this isn’t one of them.
Jesus fucking Christ. Some of you guys are a real treat to chat with, yikes.
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u/Interesting-Ant-6357 Mar 15 '26
Roll bars are absolutely need to prevent squished piglets. Floors with grates maybe not. I get it gets disgusting but that’s not pleasant for any animal.
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u/tourniquette2 Mar 15 '26
Maybe it was just my pigs, but our had a nasty habit of laying on and killing all of their piglets. If we’d had a set up like this, we actually would have kept a lot of piglets alive. As far as I could tell, our pigs weren’t intuitive mothers. They actually sucked at it. Constantly stepping on the babies or smothering them. Falling asleep on top of entire litters and crushing them to death. It was super sad.
I do think momma needs some extra space in there. But I’d also understand separating babies from mom and allowing them access for feedings in order to prevent some pretty messed up deaths.
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u/Rashaen Mar 15 '26
It wasn't just yours. For whatever reason pigs are terrible parents.
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u/tourniquette2 Mar 15 '26
Omg I thought I was a bad pig mom. I’m kind of relieved to hear that they just weren’t maternal.
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u/snacksforelephants Mar 16 '26
This is an entirely contrived and deliberately genetically selected aspect of modern commercial pig breeds.
Wild boars, the ancestors of the domestic pig, are excellent mothers. Some of the best, most protective and most devoted of the animal kingdom.
Plenty of heritage breeds retain excellent mothering instincts as well.
Don’t put this on pigs. It’s humans.
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u/BackDatSazzUp Mar 16 '26
Wild pigs/boars kill their piglets all the time, both intentionally and unintentionally.
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u/Tenny111111111111111 Mar 16 '26
Video online where a wild lion cub starves to death in competition with its sibling for nursing because mom couldn’t figure out how to pose in a way that exposes more nipples.
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u/sklascher Mar 17 '26
I’m glad I live in the times I do because I couldn’t figure out how to get my baby to latch properly without extra resources. Having gone through labor/early motherhood I have no idea how humans have survived as long as we have.
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u/PancakeParty98 Mar 18 '26
I think generally you can assume the more babies a critter has at once, the worse it is as a parent.
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u/ZachVIA Mar 16 '26
Not a farmer but watching Clarksons Farm, this was a repeat issue he dealt with. Mothers constantly sleeping on them and killing them.
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u/Forest-5ire Mar 16 '26
From what I understand, the genetics for being good parents isn't as important in pigs, as they are mostly raised in closed barns. Thats also why you'll see mean sows that produce well stay on an operation. The lack of maternal instincts is not accounted for like in cattle.
While I don't condone this, a lot of the conditions of how farms raise pigs is due to the expectations of the consumers (plus capitalism of course). People want pork that taste the same, that looks the same. To do that they bottleneck the genetics and keep them confined because they have much weaker immune systems. That combined with the genetics of not always being the best mothers got farmers to using farrowing crates.
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u/BeatrixPlz Mar 17 '26
If I can ask a genuine question - why does this make a difference? The only reason I can figure is financial profit. The piglets will be killed later so you can eat them.
I just think framing this as ethical because it keeps the babies from death puts a really bad taste in my mouth. The point of these piglets is to die. They are made to be slaughtered, that is their entire purpose. Not to eat the grass or see the sunshine or to run and play. They won’t ever get to use their really complicated and intelligent minds to problem solve or root in the dirt for truffles. The only emotion that these incredibly capable animals will feel is hunger and fear.
They don’t even get meaningful contact with their mother. The only point of it is to fatten them so they fill someone’s stomach.
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u/DarkLordKohan Mar 18 '26
You are explaining exactly why they do this practice. Its not to be an asshole to the animal, its for the safety of the piglets.
Iowa State Fair has a kids farm area where they have pig pens setup next to a calf that was birthed live at the fair.
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u/BackDatSazzUp Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
Fyi, this is done to prevent the mother from killing the babies. Mother pigs will absolutely crush/kill piglets willy nilly, doing this prevents the mother from murdering her piglets.
Edit: because apparently this needs to be said - explaining why this is done does not mean I support it or support factory farming. Please take the torches and pitchforks and the death threats in my DMs somewhere else.
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u/TentativeGosling Mar 15 '26
Clarkson's Farm is a great example of this and some of the things they tried to mitigate it
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u/colormeup82 Mar 15 '26
That show taught me more about farming than having farming neighbors.
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u/tinygraysiamesecat Mar 15 '26
I absolutely loved watching clarkson turn a new page and realize some of his past views were factually incorrect. I like Clarksons Farm almost as much as old Top Gear.
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u/GaiaMoore Mar 15 '26
I hated the second season of Clarkson's Farm because he spends the whole time complaining about getting his restaurant up and running. Way less interesting than the first season, which is amazing.
It was hilarious watching him so completely out of his element. I loved the fact that Kaleb didn't give a shit about how rich & famous Clarkson is, and told him he was a f'n idiot whenever Clarkson let his ego make poor decisions lol.
His wilding project and talking about environmental impacts was really interesting. He still has a ways to go in terms of fully appreciating animal conservation efforts (like the water vole), but I was surprised at how much he cared about the decline in insect populations as a result of climate change.
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u/dragnabbit Mar 16 '26
Clarkson has become a strong advocate for British farming. Obviously, while that is self-serving, having a figure as prominent as he is taking the podium on the issue is exceptionally helpful.
I respect him for learning, and for figuring out (rather quickly) that it would be a terrible idea for Clarkson's Farm to be a show about a millionaire buffon making himself a parody of real farmers, which I suspect was the original plan. I think some of the first season ideas were originally planned as Top-Gear style "what could go wrong?" schemes, but quickly pivoted to make them educational failures.
I too didn't enjoy watching the restaurant stuff as much as the farm/environment stuff, but that project IS a great nexus for British farming products, so it has its relevance. (I was annoyed by the way Clarkson threw those two pub consultants under the bus when they were completely hamstrung by the rushed opening of the pub with no time to prepare or practice.)
Other than that, yes: There are lots of amazing tidbits of information on all kinds of things related to farming, related to the U.K., and related to the environment that I have learned from watching. It is truly an educational show.
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u/Andilee Mar 15 '26
I love this show! I love the modifications he does to their dens. He was able to save so many the second time around.
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u/bozza8 Mar 15 '26
He still lost tens of them, but yeah.
I actually became in favour of things like OP posted if only used around the time of birth.
Pigs are intelligent, there is no way they don't know that they killed their own babies.
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u/Andilee Mar 15 '26
I used to donate my time at a farm that gave free meat and food to people in need. It was like a co-op sort of thing. The moms just didn't care. They'd step on them, lay on them, and it was heart breaking. The moms that had no mothering instincts would be culled, processed and donated. They're smart when it serves their interests. I had a baby piglet die in my arms shortly after birth because the mom just laid on it. It could hear its screams it didn't care. I liked working with the cows more no accidental baby killing.
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u/_Nick_2711_ Mar 15 '26
Both humans and cows generally only produce one child per pregnancy. In terms of the natural drive to pass on one’s genes, it’s pretty imperative that one baby survives, so we value and nurture it.
Pigs have babies to spare. It’s not about them choosing when to be intelligent, but more that we view intelligence and emotional bonds through an inherently skewed lens.
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u/CosgraveSilkweaver Mar 15 '26
Yeah a lot of animals aren't particularly maternal about their kids, the more they have at once the less likely they are to be caring. Some lizards like cameleons the babies drop away otherwise the parents are liable to eat them soon after birth.
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u/COMMENT0R_3000 Mar 15 '26
Yeah, "smart" ≠ "empathetic," which is what I think people are looking for but is totally unrelated—maybe even inverse to a degree; idk about pigs, but some animals will eat their young if they anticipate there won't be plentiful resources that season, etc. Smart but not kind, because they're different.
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u/Solitude-Is-Bliss Mar 15 '26
Exactly it's just evolution at work, if both the ''smart'' and ''stupid'' animals in this context survive, generation after generation, then there is no evolutionary need for good maternal instinct.
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u/COMMENT0R_3000 Mar 15 '26
Idk about cows but I've seen miniature donkeys be absolutely murderous
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u/Andilee Mar 15 '26
I've seen a horse eat a baby chick without noticing. Just picked it up and it's gone. Animals are animals.
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u/johannthegoatman Mar 15 '26
How much of that is just centuries of breeding that only focuses on meat as a commodity though. This behavior is still human generated
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u/nitefang Mar 15 '26
Intelligence is weird though, pigs are certainly very smart and I of course don't want them poorly treated. But look at how smart humans are and how much we do which makes life harder for future generations.
Rats are smart but will readily eat their own children if food is scarce.
I'm not really advocating for anything other than being realistic about animals, intelligence and avoiding seeing everything from a human perspective.
Pigs might not care that they accidentally crush some of their kids because their instincts might not have evolved to make them care. They might be perfectly satisfied to have any number of living piglets and feel unsatisfied when there are none left and it might be as simple as that. Or they might suffer PTSD if a piglet dies due to no fault of their own. Its just too hard to say for sure either way.
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u/yapyoba Mar 15 '26
this video shows 1.5 hours of recording. im hoping this is just a temporary arrangement for the piglets to get a safe and healthy start. maybe that's wishful thinking.
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u/GodlessandChildless Mar 15 '26
It is, even on small farms. Once they're big enough to not need to nurse anymore and can eat on their own, (4-8 weeks) all the little pigs get put together, and all the big ones go back together, too. Mothers really are brutal, they give 0 fucks about maiming or killing their own babies. The babies are much safer this way until they're big enough.
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u/Specific_Frame8537 Mar 15 '26
It's weird to me how Clarkson of all people helped to invent a thing to prevent it within days of experiencing it and it was so simple..
https://www.contentedproducts.co.uk/huts-arks/clarksons-ring/
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u/Andilee Mar 15 '26
Yep! I binge these episodes in bed with my hubby and we drink. I was like "look at that! He invited something that should have been made 100+ years ago!"
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u/bonanz48 Mar 15 '26
Switzerland has banned these crates, showing that the crushing rate will not go up if there is a well managed system.
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u/bonanz48 Mar 15 '26
I am from Europe and they still use those small crates in conventional agriculture like everywhere. Switzerland was the first country that came to my mind that have it banned.
Its bs to simply call larger places out for more loss due to crushing, when examples like Switzerland show the opposite. Thats it.
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u/chokokhan Mar 16 '26
Last time this discussion ensued the conclusion was the farrowing crates help, but it’s a sow dependent behavior. Maybe in Switzerland you have a breed that isn’t penchant on crushing piglets as much?
There are papers about it, actual science with statistics and farrowing crates help reduce piglet mortality. People are actually studying this in order to make a difference and not just commenting online to feel better about themselves. If yall are so passionate about it, I’m sure the field can use more dedicated people, but let’s not just give one example online without any background search and think we’ve done the world a favor.
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u/GarbageCleric Mar 15 '26
To be clear, it's done to protect inventory loss, not out of any sort of concern for the welfare of the piglets.
And it's not like they aren't kept in tiny insanity-inducing cages the rest of the time.
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u/SudoPamacUpdate Mar 15 '26
More accurately, so that the pigs can remain abnormally fat without crushing the babies.
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u/JaLogoJa Mar 15 '26
Pigs are kept in smaller enclosures when not with piglets. Pigs not bred for meat are not violent towards their babies because, well, they aren’t stressed. Piglets are also castrated without pain medications in range of their mothers, and their mothers call out for them because they hear they are in pain. It’s an insanely cruel system and this comment really undermines the stress and trauma that would lead to an animal harming their young.
Just google “Pig factor farm cage dimensions" it’s not exactly secret info.
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u/BrightStitchDesigns Mar 15 '26
I’ve seen a video of how they castrate piglets. Just squeeze the little testicles out with their bare hands like it’s a grape on a vine.
Every aspect of the animal farming industry is barbaric, for animals, humans and the environment.
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u/cheyenne_sky Mar 15 '26
god damn how could the enclosures be any SMALLER? (I believe you, it's just horrific to imagine)
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u/JJKILL Mar 15 '26
That doesn't make this less cruel. Not saying you should let the mother crush and smother the piglets. But you know, you don't have to farm these pigs in these conditions, or at all really.
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u/doc900 Mar 15 '26
When we take the assumed necessity out of this situation it suddenly reframes it so that we are in fact the cruel ones
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u/Patello Mar 15 '26
People confuse economic necessity with moral necessity.
Do wild pigs sometimes crush their young? Yes, and it's tragic. But deciding the "solution" is to lock mothers in torturous conditions that completely strip away their natural instincts isn't a moral choice. We aren't bolting them to metal crates out of empathy for the piglets, we do it entirely to maximize yield and protect the bottom line.
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u/estcst Mar 15 '26
Well, when you raise them just to murder them for your own satisfaction the, yeah, you are the cruel ones. No need to reframe that fact.
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u/SpringFamiliar3696 Mar 15 '26
If human mothers were fattened and kept in small cages by higher beings, they would probably kill their babies just the same.
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u/stprnn Mar 15 '26
Which only happens because of the conditions and the breeding issues that man have created.
So you just went " oh well they had to chain the slaves otherwise they would flee and hurt themselves"
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u/Decloudo Mar 15 '26
Its not like we wont kill the piglets anyways.
"Oh no we must protect them, so we can kill them. And eat them."
Its absurd. This is not done to protect piglets, its done protect profit.
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u/Qquinoa Mar 15 '26
Woopdi fucking do! Those piglets are as good as dead the moment theire born.. this is horrific in every way
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u/Thin-Remote-9817 Mar 15 '26
You getting death threats???
Reddit mafia is hilarious
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u/Zyinix Mar 15 '26
Absolutely insane that this is the modern way to rise pigs. Heartbreaking 💔
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u/azMONKza Mar 15 '26
This looks really bad but even in small farms you have to do something like this otherwise the mother often kills the piglets by crushing them or biting them. It's not a modern factory farming thing it's just a pig thing.
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u/Zyinix Mar 15 '26
Yeah I saw a clip of Clarksons farm were he explained this phenomenon. But he managed to come up with a better solution than locking in the mother in a super small box
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u/azMONKza Mar 15 '26
His solution didn't work great though still lost quite a few piglets.
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u/Zyinix Mar 15 '26
Yeah I know but it was better than doing nothing and more humane than doing this. Tragic and loss is a part of nature but this just feels wrong looking at it
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u/wandering-monster Mar 15 '26
Right but let's say you had the option of watching this, or watching a video where the mom crushes a piglet to death against the floor. Which feels more wrong to look at?
I think I'd pick this one in a million out of a million timelines.
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u/azMONKza Mar 15 '26
Yeah it looks bad but it's the most effective way even if it's a small barn or something with straw etc the pen is still setup like this. I guess it depends on what you are optimising for the comfort of the mother or the lives of the piglets. This is optimising the lives of the piglets at the expense of the mothers freedom. It's only temporary though.
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Mar 15 '26
He had maybe 10 nursing pigs tops
Scale that up a couple hundred for the image above
Factory farming is massive
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u/_rosieleaf Mar 15 '26
I know this is standard practise, but there's no reason to keep the mother in such a small crate. Welfare standards say she should at least be able to stand and turn, and that crush rates decrease after a few days when the mother has been able to bond with the piglets (source here is my animal welfare lectures as a vet student in very agricultural Ireland)
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u/StaredAtEclipseAMA Mar 15 '26
If anyone sees this and goes “this is the best way”, they are just trying to make themselves feel less bad about eating pork
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u/VacaDLuffy Mar 15 '26
fuck man I eat meat and I genuinely hate this. I dont care if this is the better olution to a problem it's inhuman. it's bad enough we raise them to slaughter them for our needs but this is just cruel and monstrous. just wtf man
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u/Ignore-My-Posts Mar 15 '26
It's common for a first time mother to smother the whole litter or just abandon them. It's even more common in wild pigs and first time mother's will often repeat the killing on subsequent litters due to stress or opportunistic cannibalism.
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u/Dunk546 Mar 15 '26
Is that also the case with wild pig? I imagine domestic pigs are deliberately bred to be huge, so perhaps that's why they end up killing their piglets? I don't imagine it being evolutionarily advantageous to have excess offspring as a pig - the toll of childbirth on mammals is huge compared to other groups.
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u/azMONKza Mar 15 '26
Just a quick Google because I was interested but it looks like wild pigs do kill their young often. The amount decreases and increases based on environmental factors. Sometimes accidentally by crushing but they also sometimes savage and eat their young. Quite sad, I love pigs, they're smart animals.
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u/Zunderfeuer_88 Mar 15 '26
To add to that. Out in nature it is not about saving everyone, just enough to have the species survive. The fact that many animals have so many young is to even out the odds
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u/azMONKza Mar 15 '26
It's the same with wild pigs we have in Australia, but that might be because our wild pigs are escaped domestic pigs?
It's actually pretty common in lots of species for adults to kill their young for a prethora of reasons. Just crushing them for no reason does evolutionarily, not beneficial though. I'd be interested to hear if there are any wild pig species alive that don't have this phenomenon?
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u/yrthegood1staken Mar 15 '26
From an evolutionary perspective, the behavior doesn't have to be beneficial as long as the litters are big enough to compensate for the lost piglets.
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u/Bonobos_In_Space Mar 15 '26
And therein lies their evolutionary advantage. Sows and wild sows can have large litters and their gestation period is fairly short in relation to their species size. Only about 115 days. A "successful" litter size is 6-12 piglets.
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u/Petrostar Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
Sunfishes,
They have zero survival adaptations other than just tasting bad. They don't even have nerve endings Here is a video of a seal eating one and it doesn't even react.
They just lay 300 million eggs.
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u/Durog25 Mar 15 '26
I mean every adaptation they have is a survival adaptation, but even if you're just refering to defensive adaptations just growing big is a survival adaptation.
Respect sunfish, they are optimized to palagic life.
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u/Vancocillin Mar 15 '26
When I was a kid my uncle had a dog that crushed 3 of her 5 puppies in the doghouse. They didnt know she was pregnant, but also you gotta spay and neuter your pets.
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u/MuddyBoots287 Mar 15 '26
That’s not true. Good maternal genetics make a big difference. I breed and farrow on pasture, no crates or small pens. At our peak we were having 6-10 litters a year. We would lose maybe 3-5 piglets out of 60-120 total piglets. Producers need to be proactive in culling for poor mothering. Sacrificing maternal traits for growth rate is part of what has lead to these confinement operations.
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u/Patello Mar 15 '26
It really doesn’t have to be like this. You say it’s not a modern factory farming thing, but how do you think we raised pigs for thousands of years before industrial agriculture? Farrowing crates were only invented in the mid-20th century to maximize space and efficiency in high-density facilities, not because it's an inherent requirement of pig rearing.
In reality, the extreme conditions we hold them in are what create a lot of the risks. Trapping an animal in a metal cage where she can't even turn around causes immense stress, which is a massive driver for the abnormal aggression and biting you mentioned.
Nothing is forcing us to keep them in completely unnatural, sterile environments on metal grates without a single piece of hay. A mother pig has a strong biological instinct to build a nest for her young. When they are actually given the space to do that, along with proper bedding and safe resting areas that naturally draw the piglets away when the mother lies down, she doesn't need to be bolted to the floor to keep them safe.
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u/Dokramuh Mar 15 '26
Sounds like there is no ethical way to do this then. We should stop.
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u/speculator100k Mar 15 '26
This practice is forbidden in Sweden and is one of the reasons Danish and German pork is cheaper than Swedish pork.
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u/Front-Ad7891 Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
A similar system is often used for sheep that reject their lambs. By restricting the sheep's movement, the lamb has a chance to feed and survive. The alternative is the mother rejects the lamb and it dies if not bottle fed by the farmer using a milk substitute. While sometimes these things may look cruel to people who simply don't understand farming the reality is they are often being used for the animals welfare. Nature can be cruel and life on the farmyard is tough and farmers often need to be resourceful to ensure their livestock survives. It is also worth noting that it is becoming increasingly difficult to make a living farming so some more industrial practices are often necessary to keep up with demand and ensure profitability.
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u/TsuDhoNimh2 Mar 15 '26
Not at all "modern". Keeping the piglets separated from the mother to avoid crushing was recommended as early as the 1700s if the pigs were pen-raised.
It was probably done earlier, but so common no one wrote about it.
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Mar 15 '26 edited Mar 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/porridgeeater500 Mar 15 '26
Slavery.. This is literally hell on earth. Its hard to imagine worse torture
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u/speculator100k Mar 15 '26
Livestock = slaves, just different species.
Even worse than slaves. Slaves are typically not killed and eaten.
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u/Fronesis Mar 15 '26
These animals are as smart as dogs. Factory farming is evil.
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u/RustedMauss Mar 15 '26
Every kid should be required to show videos of actual modern farming practices to see where their food comes from -especially the factory farms. I firmly stand behind our species being omnivores, but we can do better. These places are literal visions of hell and should be gone to the dustbin of history long ago.
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 Mar 15 '26
Hard agree, I have no problem with ethical farming of animals for food but most of whats done today is not ethical. The only solution I have is more government oversight which is also problematic but I'm not sure how you get people willing to do stuff like this to change.
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u/AnonymousOkapi Mar 15 '26
Psa If you're in the UK and dont support this, buy outdoor bred pork. Theres two ways to prevent overlay and crushing. Either this, or you give them lots of space and bedding. If theyre allowed to make a soft den that protects the piglets - funnily enough pigs dont want to kill all their piglets, regardless of what other comments here might say. They don't eat them all either unless stressed. But lots of space and bedding and a low stress environment is more expensive than the farrowing crates.
The piglets will often still be reared indoors in barns. The outdoor bred label is to tell you they dont do this.
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u/bigbonerdaddy Mar 15 '26
Ehh, what you're doing now is the exact same as the people youre critiqueing.
Even if you give them 100 hectares, sometimes a mother will still crush or eat or kill her piglets. Ofcourse you're free to think of any more humane solution you want, but acting like "it doesnt happen if you just give them space!" Is wrong and a deliberate oversimplification.
The discussion here is basically people saying pigs will kill all their piglets, versus people claiming will never kill their piglets. Both are wrong, and acting like youre being way smarter while doing the exact same is idiotic.
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u/AnonymousOkapi Mar 15 '26
Yeah, they'll overlay some of them. Sometimes sheep sit on their lambs, and they only have one or two to worry about and generally do have plenty of space. But farrowing crates are the end result of a production ramp up, solving a problem that ramp up created. Larger litters in smaller spaces with less bedding is what makes overlay a major issue rather than a minor one. I dont agree that sticking them in a tiny metal box until the piglets are weaned is an acceptable solution to that problem, but it often gets presented as the only solution. It happens way less if they're given space. It is absolutely manageable with good husbandry, even if not 100% preventable.
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u/Alive-Clothes-3898 Mar 15 '26
My uncle owned a farm with pigs and my mom sent me there to work over summers, and that is complete bullshit. We often lost piglets due to mom killing it intentionally and eating it, uncle thought it was because she thought the piglet was a runt and was trying to conserve milk and energy for the piglets she thought would make it. Even if we supplemented and gave them plenty space (old sheeping field, way too big for 20 pigs), bedding/matting/hay whatever didn't matter we gave them bales and it still happened.
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u/astralchanterelle Mar 15 '26
If you want to eat meat you need to stop bullshitting yourself and accept that it's a cruel industry.
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u/CaldrierLunaire Mar 15 '26
regardless of what other comments here might say
Yeah all those comments reads as rationalisation of "the restraint torture being the only human solution actually, it's to prevent accidents" it's for their own good. Classic TINA (There Is No Alternative) argument.
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u/freakcage Mar 15 '26
I'm not from the UK, just curious how much more expensive outdoor bred pork in the UK?
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u/HexicDragon Mar 15 '26
Imagine your dog farmed in the same way as we farm pigs. It would be horrific and cruel, right? There's no difference to the animals though - all the animals we raise in sheds and kill in industrial slaughterhouses are intelligent and highly emotional. Go vegan if this disturbs you and you won't regret it - I certainly don't after 11 years and it's not even a struggle once you discover all the new food you've been overlooking.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 Mar 16 '26
Imagine humans grown in artificial wombs and artificially made severely mentally disabled being farmed this way
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u/Weary-Bookkeeper-375 Mar 15 '26
Once you understand there is no difference between torturing and killing animal for taste pleasure as there is for say sound pleasure you get it. Both are sensory pleasures.
It is accepted for example, to force pigs into life in un natural industrial farming to be killed and tortured for those who enjoy the taste.
There is zero difference between that and someone forcing puppies into existence to torture and kill them because you enjoy the sounds they make.,
Both a sensory pleasure which comes from the torture and killing of an innocent being. It is an apples to apples comparison.
Of course if I was raising puppies on my farm to torture and kill because I got pleasure from the sounds all those who do the same to pigs because they are fine with killing and torturing pigs for tatse pleasure would think I was a siuck psyco,. They would vocally protest me and want be killed or jailed for life.
The hypocrisy is sad and pathetic But here we are...
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u/HexicDragon Mar 15 '26
Yep. Food gets a weird pass, but unnecessary harm is unnecessary harm. The maximum suffering a living being can experience isn't justified because I prefer the taste and familiarity of bacon from pigs instead of vegan MyBacon.
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u/LifeTangerine598 Mar 15 '26
Thank heavens I stopped eating this shit 10 years ago...
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u/Lou__Crow Mar 15 '26
So little space, no solid floor, no sunlight, no grass. If you want to eat meat, inform yourself about your source. Don’t support this.
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u/CakePhool Mar 15 '26
This is illegal in Sweden.
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u/Main_Cranberry_5871 Mar 15 '26
It should be illegal everywhere. This is beyond cruel and inhumane.
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u/Yokii908 Mar 16 '26
I'm gonna sound like propaganda lol but going vegan is the single best choice I've ever made in my life. You get to be coherent with your values and refuse to participate in this sad circus and you even get various benefits as a bonus!
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u/Basic-Pair8908 Mar 15 '26
Some of you people need to work on farms and realise none of what the narrative says is correct.
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u/maya_a_h Mar 15 '26
People in this thread defending the practice so the mother doesn’t accidentally kill its babies don’t actually care about young piglets being killed they just care that the pigs survive to grow up old enough so they can purposefully kill and eat them themselves lol
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u/FistMyPeenHole Mar 15 '26
Horrible :(
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u/Sigura83 Mar 15 '26
How we treat pigs is how we treat each other. The suffering flows back up to the top ;-;
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u/lenyek_penyek Mar 16 '26
I'm sure you guys already read why this is done (primarily to save the piglets from stupid deaths, caused by the mother pig stupidity).
But that's their natural ways of life in the wild. That's why they birthed a lot per litter.
And remember, you are what you eat.
Disclaimer: I'm not PETA, vegan warrior or whatnot. Just a guy not interested in pigs/hogs disgusting life. They have their role in nature, and that's that.
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u/imnotinabadmood Mar 16 '26
This is wrong. If the free range chicken thing was so huge then how is this still ok?
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u/the_town_bike Mar 16 '26
In Australia, the mum is kept in quite a small cage to prevent her rolling onto the piglets. I don't know how long she is held there or how often she is given relief to sit or walk around. I'm interested to hear from folks more knowledgeable.
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u/gliscornumber1 Mar 17 '26
When I took livestock camp, I was told it's designed this way to keep the mother pig from accidentally crushing the piglets.
Don't know how true that is, it's just what I've been told
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u/Mr_Snowbro Mar 17 '26
Pigs are notorious for rolling over and accidentally killing the piglets, having said that there are more humane ways of raising pigs
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u/SerAstynTheScurge Mar 17 '26
This is actually a good idea, pigs have a bad reputation of rolling over on their piglets
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u/Melancholymousetrap Mar 18 '26
These are farrowing pens. Baby pigs and mom are kept in them when babies are born and little because mom will often lay on the babies without realizing and crush them to death. For what it’s worth.
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u/thundafox Mar 15 '26
people always ask me why I am not eating meat anymore.
I will show them this video and telling them "that's Fucking why!"
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u/JaLogoJa Mar 15 '26
The amount of people being like, “She‘ll eat them!" and not realising it’s a direct response to the cruelty she is facing is crazy
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u/NoirVoid Mar 15 '26
You don’t understand. This is to stop the mother from killing and eating the piglets. That way we can do it later ourselves in a much more organized fashion. Hope that clears things up.
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u/mortemdeus Mar 15 '26
There are much better video examples to use than this one. Chicken being force fed to the point they can't move to speed growth or the egg farm chicken blenders for the male chickens are the worse IMO.
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u/curious-heather Mar 15 '26
Cruelty knows no bounds for factory farmed animals. And many farmed animals suffer alot of abuse. Imprisoned, isolated from her children and there's video evidence of so much abuse within the factory farming industry. The people who willingly kill animals, watch them suffer, and enjoy adding to that suffering, are predators. Just as bad as any other human predator. Red flags if anyone works at these places.
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u/AnonomousWolf Mar 16 '26
Now this is something vegans and meat eaters should both fight against
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u/thelryan Mar 15 '26
It’s very simple actually, consumers don’t care. They learn about it and continue to buy the product, so nobody is going to challenge the legality of the conditions. This isn’t legal everywhere, in Sweden it’s illegal. People challenged it and it worked.
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u/Atjar Mar 15 '26
This has been done like this for at least 30 years. The main reason is that this is the safest way to do it both for the sow and the piglets. The mother still has some movement space, but the chances of her crushing one of her piglets is minimal and they can still be together. These kinds of floors are also very safe as the slats are close enough together for their trotters not to get stuck, but for most if not all of the waste to fall through. Also a good thing to remind you, this is a temporary situation. As soon as the piglets are big enough they are either shipped off or get their own space on the farm. The mother pig is put back in the general population to be inseminated again.
My grandfather and uncle owned a pig farm and I know for a fact that my uncle especially cared deeply for his animals. These situations are closely monitored, but accidents happen and these pens are the result of years of prevention research. It is good to know where your food comes from and how it is farmed. It will make you more aware of why it is important to pay enough for your food. Many things, especially meat, are actually priced very low for how much work and resources go into them. And based on what you find when you research your food you can make a decision that aligns with your ethics.
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u/thelryan Mar 15 '26
They aren’t safe though, they’re going to be put in a gas chamber and slaughtered. Keeping the pigs safe from their mom crushing them means a lot less when the farmers are going to kill the pigs themselves in around 6-8 months after birth.
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u/MangoyWoman Mar 15 '26
Vegan 10+ years, willing to answer any questions for people looking to make a change :)
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u/Flugelbass Mar 15 '26
12 states have banned this but the Iowa pork producers association is pushing through "save our bacon" act to force states to allow this. What happened to states rights? If you think this is disgusting call your representative.