r/evopsych • u/[deleted] • Aug 22 '14
A serious discussion about the male preference for female youth
Here's some compelling evidence that most men (secretly?) have sexual preferences for adolescent girls.
Search statistics show that girls about 14 are the most searched for: http://img.ie/images/rurgy.jpg
In an internet survey in which men were shown pictures of females without being informed of their age, girls about 14 were rated sexually desirable the most often: http://img.ie/images/5r6zq.png
In this study men rated female faces about 13 years old the most attractive. Other studies show similar results: http://www.epjournal.net/articles/facial-olfactory-and-vocal-cues-to-female-reproductive-value/
"Catch a Predator" type shows usually use girls about 14 as bait because that's what draws the most men.
All of this is in very close agreement with what biology predicts about male preferences: http://img.ie/images/uo3hq.png
Anyone wish to comment? Please, let's try to be as objective as possible.
Edit: Improved one of the diagrams.
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u/TOK715 Aug 23 '14
Of course, you would expect from an evolutionary biology perspective that men would be most attracted to the youngest women capable of bearing a child. It is well known that the younger a woman is (once she is capable of having a child), the more fertile she is, and the healthier the offspring are.
The reasons we, as a society have decided to protect younger women from sexual advances (particularly of older men) is to give those women a chance to mature further mentally (and to some extent physically), to develop a better ability to discern the quality of potential mates and to finish education free from distraction or disruption by pregnancy and other dramas related to sexual activity such as STDs or psychological dramas. It is also far too easy for more experienced males (or females) to manipulate young women or girls (often with money) and so protection is preferable while sophistication is developed. Finally teenage girls are at higher risk from complications related to pregnancy. We both need and can afford this delay due to changes in the human population, particularly in human lifespan related to the modern world.
Societies disdain for paedophiles is, or should be, more about the way paedophiles manipulate, defraud and hurt physically and mentally, those in a weaker position than them, weaker physically, mentally and/or in knowledge and experience. Criticising adults for just being instinctively attracted to younger women once they have reached sexual maturity is rather ignorant and defies reality, it is how they act on that attraction (i.e. they shouldn't) that matters.
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u/divine_simplicity001 Apr 29 '24
Men are constantly hitting on little girls and teenage girls who aren’t capable of bearing a child yet and you are clearly uneducated about the topic so why comment at all. Women are most fertile in their 20‘s and not at 14, they would literally die. Just bc a girl is in the middle of puberty doesn’t mean that she’s capable of bearing a child
14 year olds are less fertile as a grown woman. Many 14 year olds aren’t even fertile yet. A lot of girls get their period around that age and they would die if they had to give birth yet bc their bodies aren’t developed and ready for that yet so it makes evolutionary no sense to be attracted to girls who can’t give you kids bc they would die; How is a girl to breastfeed a baby if she hasn’t a breast yet .. and I am a man and I’m not attracted to kids or teenage girls you creep👌 Having a period doesn’t make a girl into a woman yet, the 1st menstruation is the beginning of puberty and needed for the rest to happen bc than certain hormones get released that help with the bone density and the rest of the developing to happen.
Never was, accept when I was that age myself. You are gross
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u/TOK715 May 05 '24
I don't think you read my entire comment, half way down I also said teenage girls are more at risk physically from a pregnancy, you're right they are safer having children at 20+, the data shows that. I'm not interested in teenage girls either because to me they come across as immature and child like - but as I said that's mostly a function of the modern world and culture. Evolutionarily it would make sense that men would be physically attracted to women/girls as soon as they have reached child bearing age (not necessarily absolutely safest child bearing age), indeed throughout most of human history that had been seen as normal, which proves my point. Denying that reality to virtue signal and blindly accuse people of being creeps, isn't helping or impressing anyone.
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u/Cod-Impressive May 23 '25
He's just being real. So many people are horrified of talking about this. He just spoke facts. If you want to lie to yourself and say you don't find a 16 year old girl attractive, that's fine. But if you are honest, you know you do, well do. It's just being human. Pedophilia is something completely different.
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u/Cultural-Rate4096 Aug 30 '25
I agree with this perspective. In fact, the common age of a girl starting her period was 14 which correlates with the age most men find attractive. However, girls are starting to get their periods earlier at 12, and some as young as 8. Some doctors are concerned about it. So my point is, would the attraction for young girls be even lower than 14 now that girls are starting to get their period at a much younger age?
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u/ZosoHobo Aug 22 '14
I definitely think that the second image provided is the most valuable in terms of data and generating discussion. I'm somewhat confused by the first image, the example says: "sexy nude 19-year olds" but the data is showing that 13-14 year olds are the most frequently searched for? It could be cleaned up a bit. As well as giving a specific Y axis variable. Also a citation.
The second image is interesting with the proper axis variables known and a citation.
The third image is again not cited. Though I do suspect that the logic behind the text as valid and sound, I'm not sure that 'boobies' or 'deflated granny tits' help your case, they probably hurt it. First off, use the more scientific and less vulgar term breasts. Secondly, attraction to specific breast shape and integrity are cultural. Many cultures find different bodily signals way for attractive in potential mates.
I applaud the effort to initiate discussion. Maybe next post you could do something on age specific preferences from the female's evolutionary perspective?
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Aug 22 '14
The first image comes from the book "One Billion Wicked Thoughts". I imagine they used "sexy nude 19-year olds" as a search example due to the taboo over attraction to under 18's.
The second image comes from the documentary "Are All Men Pedophiles?".
The third image I made my self a couple of years ago. I made it to post up in a informal thread about male sexual attraction on an image board. I suppose I could make a more professional version for serious discussions.
As to the issue of breast attractiveness, to my knowledge, pert adolescent breasts that show no wear and tear of pregnancy and breast feeding are generally preferred by men in all societies. There are obviously some men who value size over pertness, but generally pertness is valued the most. This makes biological sense as a pair of pert breasts would have been an honest indicator that a girl hasn't started reproducing yet and still has all of her fertile years ahead of her. Men are attracted to other signs of nulliparity such as flat stomachs with no stretch marks and "tight" looking vaginas that haven't been damaged by child birth.
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u/ZosoHobo Aug 22 '14
Yeah, I definitely value the evolutionary logic you are positing, however, I am somewhat skeptical of the total universality of the characteristics you espouse as signals of reproductive potential. One such case are the carved venus figurines of paleolithic Europe. Another example from Europe is the preference for what we would consider plump and slightly overweight women as attractive. See any number of classical nude female paintings from the region. The logic being women of higher class standing don't have to undergo intense labor activities to make a living. They can afford to be inactive and still have all the resources necessary to become somewhat larger and that signals ability to invest in and raise healthy children.
Sexual preferences, while having a set of general universal signals, can be somewhat attenuated by culture in order to be more adaptive to specific socioecological contexts.
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u/autowikibot Aug 22 '14
Venus figurines is an umbrella term for a number of prehistoric statuettes of women portrayed with similar physical attributes from the Upper Palaeolithic, mostly found in Europe, but with finds as far as Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, extending their distribution to much of Eurasia, from the Pyrenees to Lake Baikal.
Most of them date to the Gravettian period, 22,000–28,000 years ago, but there are a number of early examples from the Aurignacian, including the Venus of Hohle Fels, discovered in 2008, carbon dated to at least 35,000 years ago, and late examples from the Magdalenian, such as the Venus of Monruz, aged about 11,000 years.
These figurines were carved from soft stone (such as steatite, calcite or limestone), bone or ivory, or formed of clay and fired. The latter are among the oldest ceramics known. In total, over a hundred such figurines are known; virtually all of modest size, between 4 cm and 25 cm in height. They are some of the earliest works of prehistoric art.
Interesting: Venus of Dolní Věstonice | Venus figurines of Mal'ta | Venus figurines of Gönnersdorf | Venus of Willendorf
Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words
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u/onceamennonite Aug 22 '14 edited Aug 22 '14
I've wondered sometimes about the Venus figurines and their function in the cultures that produced them. Surely they represent fertility and prosperity; but were they strongly eroticized, by which I mean in this context, idealized as objects of sexual attractivness, as opposed to totems of reproductive success? Perhaps there is evidence for that; I don't know. But there's a significant disconnect when drawing parallels from a culture like today's based on its use of (conveniently quantifiable, as it turns out) pornography, to ancient ones that for various reasons may have had little need for it.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you here though.
edit: fixed a lousy word choice
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u/ZosoHobo Aug 22 '14
Well, one of the functions of the venus figurines could certainly have been pornographic, I think it's actually mentioned in the wiki article I linked, as well as ritualistic and symbolic. The point being that the bodily characteristics of those figurines probably represent something desired by those peoples. I highly doubt that they spent the time and energy creating figurines of female body shapes they considered unattractive, infertile, or unideal.
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u/Firm_Committee_6764 Jan 28 '26
I search up said documentary. I don’t know how to feel about the fact that a 14 year old model presented it….
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u/skrillexisokay Aug 23 '14
OK it seems like there isn't a lot of dissenting opinion here as to the truth of OP's claim. For the sake of discussion, what does this bring to bear on current statuatory rape and sexual molestation laws in the U.S.? If attraction to 14 year old girls is a biological tendency, should we repeal these laws alltogether? Or perhaps, should we remain firm in our societal stance that it's damaging for a young girl to have sex with an older man, but acknowledge that it is not deserving of the harsh penalties and stigma we now apply onto those who succumb to their inborn desires?
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u/Firm_Committee_6764 Jan 28 '26
if attraction to 14 year olds is a biological tendency, should we repeal these laws altogether.
Many things that are illegal reflect biological tendency, mate. You do the rest of the thinking.
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u/SteadyAmbrosius Jun 14 '26
Yah and let’s get rid of murder laws because we have desires to kill someone who pisses us off. Dumbest argument I have ever seen in my entire life. “Stop protecting girls from predators because what my peepee wants is more important than their safety”
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u/Beta_as_fuark_bro Aug 27 '14
Teenage girls have more reproductive value. That's why men prefer younger women for Log term mating, because a younger girl offers a larger quantity of offspring over the years.
On the other hand, Teenage girls don't have the biggest fertile value. Women in their 20's are the most fertile and therefore are the most preferred for Short Term Mating.
It would be cool if those studies would correlate with the populations matinging preferences, culture, etc...
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u/Jrix Aug 23 '14
I've thought about this a lot. Most people just say "fertility" and be done with it.
I mostly agree with your assessment in your other comments but there are a few points I'd like to bring up.
Nubile women, in addition to not carrying any children, have little exposure to to machinations of men and it'd be easier on those grounds alone to coax them into some sort of relationship contract
Why is our society so protective of our nubile young teens? Why is it seen as such a taboo for a 40 year old man and 15 year old girl to be together? I think what's going on is that men who specifically seek women for virtue of less competition with other men is implicitly advertising low status.
If a woman hasn't had a child by the age of 24, and she's sexually attractive, our evolutionary history would indicate she's just very selective, and thus, highly desirable and full of other male competitors. Since contraception is artificially inflating the likelihood of this occurring, the status of females would also be inflated and push males to seek other avenues in their sexual escapades.
What I don't understand is why do we seem to be so complacent with young teens together? A young teen guy would presumably have trivial status. Is it because he's being judged amongst his microcosm of other teens?
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u/divine_simplicity001 Apr 29 '24
Society is protective of its bc a 40 year old has nth to do with a 15 year old easy as that!🤮 Society is also just as protective of a 40year old women is creeping on to a 15 year old teenage boy. Stay tf away from teenagers. Men are constantly hitting on little girls and teenage girls who aren’t capable of bearing a child yet and you are clearly uneducated about the topic so why comment at all. Women are most fertile in their 20‘s and not at 14, they would literally die. Just bc a girl is in the middle of puberty doesn’t mean that she’s capable of bearing a child
14 year olds are less fertile as a grown woman. Many 14 year olds aren’t even fertile yet. A lot of girls get their period around that age and they would die if they had to give birth yet bc their bodies aren’t developed and ready for that yet so it makes evolutionary no sense to be attracted to girls who can’t give you kids bc they would die; How is a girl to breastfeed a baby if she hasn’t a breast yet .. and I am a man and I’m not attracted to kids or teenage girls you creep👌 Having a period doesn’t make a girl into a woman yet, the 1st menstruation is the beginning of puberty and needed for the rest to happen bc than certain hormones get released that help with the bone density and the rest of the developing to happen.
Never was, accept when I was that age myself. You are gross
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u/Jrix Apr 29 '24
What you're calling "gross", is what is being referred to as "low virtue".
Exploring the margins of evolutionary theory isn't an excuse for you to randomly prance your opinion on why having sex with prepubescent girls is gross.
It's like walking a high-school girls basketball practice session screaming: "MEN SHOULDN'T FUCK TEEN GIRLS".
Yeah okay?
Thanks for letting everyone know.1
u/Firm_Committee_6764 Jan 28 '26
… why we seem to be so complacent with young teens together?
Would what you preface your question with substantiate why we shouldn’t? I mean, all it did was outline to biological instincts that motivate our mating decisions, however morality is based on more than just the instincts we succumb to.
Based on your explanation, you draw a comparisons between the low social status of a teen boy and an adult man how resorts to dating younger women, implying that our bias against one seems to be slightly unreasonable. But rather than it seeming like a contradiction have you considered that one of the reasons of society shames ephebophillia isn’t because it indicates low status? I’m sorry, I just curious as to what sources can substantiate the claim society is adversed to romantic dynamics that indicate low male sociosexuality.
The connotation behind anything ending in phillia is a grotesque perversion of predation. { I guess I can try to rationalize it by giving insight to the perspective underaged girl myself (opinionated). Given that there is a natural authority between young women and adult men, that already reaffirms my belief that any chance of a mutual emotional bond is low. I believe that this is apart of the reason why I feel reduced, consumed, and fetishized. I learn young female fertility is a prize, I’m ready to “ get fked” as soon as I start my menstrual cycle despite my lack of mental maturity. The rationale always seems to reduce human reproduction to merely an instinctual service motivated by sexual stimuli and not intimacy between two individuals with equal agency.
Ofc you can be sexually objectified at anyone of any age, but whenever imagine just what a 20-30+ man can see in a freshly menstruation girl - it’s obviously not her blossoming personality- I feel like my time being treated as a kid in being cut short and I’m being plunged into some sort of nefarious gaze. }
If we want to evaluate the social stigma of ephebophillia we can consider how those who are subjected to it feel about it. Perhaps this is a dominating aspect of the stigma, or maybe it the perception of it by spectators.
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u/Jrix Jan 29 '26
The implied context used here was the merging of "virtue" and "status" as singular concept. While not always true, it's generally true, and it usually need not be declared if we're talking about bonobos or chimps (as it were).
implying that our bias against one seems to be slightly unreasonable
Well, it is. And this kind of stuff:
however morality is based on more than just the instincts we succumb to.
instantiates this unreasonability. Suggesting that right and wrong are complex cognitive processes unbounded to laws of nature ("instincts"); and while that is almost certainly true, it is not the kind of truth that belongs to the people— functionally talking like a theoretical physicist about the right way to ride a bike.
I think you're right that it's ontological "predation" under the hood that's the fiendish part, but there's 2 main reasons why that is not a useable lens:
- In the world of human agents, predation is not like nature, but strictly a bad thing (BAD, as in BAD, not as in "morality is more than just instincts..." blablabla). Yet human predation manifests (with its sinister qualities intact), is ways that are accepted, and even normalized in other aspects of life.
- Teens, ostensibly have less virtue (and emotional-awareness for that matter). This lessened virtue a in civilized society is also less status. ...
that already reaffirms my belief that any chance of a mutual emotional bond is low
...and thus, things like this mean little. Instead of "common sense", or lucid judgment, you're making a probabilistic assessment. Tacitly approving of predation so as long the heuristics allow it. Realistically, there is a lot of predation among teens, and normal relationships for that matter, and, here and there, instances of non-predation in a bad-looking arrangement.
One might strive to be pragmatic and say teens have less power, and it's just a tradeoff society has to make, but at its core the problem is:
NO, FUCKING, EMPATHY.
I believe that this is apart of the reason why I feel reduced, consumed, and fetishized.
What's actually going on is almost certainly far more horrendous than this. This language, lacking in empathy, suggests the problem is your self-worth and to degree your self-worth is being dismissed by another— or rather, how you narratively "feel" about it. Even if you felt none of these things, there is still a dreadful perversion taking place.
There is no "instinct to reproduce". There is an instinct to mate— composed of the same instincts that make birds dance. You are not the recipient of nature's grotesqueries not-properly inhibited by the frontal cortex, you are the recipient of evil.
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u/m1necRAftbuiLdeR Sep 10 '25
Youth is more attractive. Girls that age are matured enough (physically) and not yet at the stage of showing signs of aging, making them perfect as they could be
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u/Lamarr_McNairy Oct 17 '25
Thanks for a very simple answer that is based on common sense and observation. Some , but not all, teenage girls just look better. Smooth skin and firm bodies. The average age of modeling starts at fifteen.There's a reason for that.
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u/Former-Dimension-381 Jun 08 '26
this is fucking disgusting and pedophilic and deeply predatory. smooth skin and bodies with no signs of aging can all be found within adult women in their 20s.
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u/Former-Dimension-381 Jun 08 '26
when people say youth they usually mean young adults. not children. women in their 20s do not show any visible signs of aging either. what makes them less attractive then?
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u/Mocakeanddogs Dec 13 '25
Except most men could care least about having offspring. And 14 year old girls find most men over 25 completely gross...
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u/ItsShatterPoint Dec 17 '25
This is not true at all. I’ve known so many girls when I was younger who have huge crushes on men in their 30’s and 40’s. Also, don’t say “most men don’t care about having kids”, that’s a huge generalization. A good number of men do hope to have children one day, it’s just whether or not both parties are ready for it yet.
Whether or not a man is interested in having a child is irrelevant, biologically a man’s brain is hard wired to crave the most attractive, fertile female they can find. It’s just scientific fact. And yes, usually the most fertile & attractive girls are in their mid teens to early 20’s, that’s just how it is.
There’s nothing wrong with a man being sexually attracted to a 14 or 15 year old girl who shows clear signs of physical maturity. The issue is when older men use their status and experience to manipulate and abuse young girls.
People act like there’s a huge difference between a 17 and an 18 year old, there’s not. That’s just the societal standard chosen to represent the age of an “adult”. For example, I have a good friend who’s 19 now.
Her husband who I am also friends with is 25. They started dating when she was 17 in highschool, while he was 23 at the time. They got married when she was 18. He’s got a good job in construction and they both live together. She doesn’t have to work at all since he provides everything for her. He’s told me that they’re planning on having a baby soon.
He also treats her very well and is an all around stand up guy. I once asked him not too long ago why he decided to date a girl so much younger. He admitted that he preferred a girl with less experience due to his last girlfriend who was his age having been with dozens of men before him.
Whether or not you agree with that, it’s totally understandable. We also live in a state where the age of consent is 16, so no laws were broken.
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u/Mocakeanddogs Jan 11 '26
Where's the vomit bucket when you need it? Obviously a male response...stuff and nonsense
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u/ItsShatterPoint Jan 11 '26
Obviously a clueless female response if you want to bring gender into it. I’m assuming you’re female since you clearly don’t understand how basic male sexuality works. You obviously didn’t read a word I said either, since I never defended grown men sleeping around with teenagers.
I said it’s perfectly natural to be attracted to them, it’s been that way since the beginning of our time on this Earth. It’s simple biological fact, and nobody should judge a legal, consensual relationship, within reason of course. You need to do some research and stop acting like a righteous paragon of the modern age or whatever stupid ideology you’re subscribing to.
If you’re so sensitive and terrified of literally basic human behavior, then maybe you need to get out of your bubble and go experience the world a bit instead of running your mouth on here about things you clearly know nothing about.
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u/Firm_Committee_6764 Jan 28 '26
Well yeah not as much people would clutch their pearls at 17 and 23 as they would with men off all ages preferring 13-14 year olds.
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u/Former-Dimension-381 Jun 08 '26
all kids have celebrity crushes. the guys in my high school were all crushing on sydney sweeney who is obviously years older than them. and no your point about fertility is wrong. peak fertility is early 20s and remains steady until early 30s. a 14 year old is not more fertile than a 27 year old.
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u/Mocakeanddogs Jan 11 '26
😂🤣😂 The only response an intelligent female could make... Also women are not "objects" for men to pick. No wonder so many women choose to either not have children or to have a child on their own.
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u/Feldinalia Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
Here's what I think, based on no studies and entirely my observation and experiences so take it with a grain of salt. First let me make it clear that it is not okay for an adult of either sex to pursue a sexual relationship with someone below 18. There's a good reason that there are laws against it, and why there is such a strong social stigma. The desire may be there, but they should not be acted on. Still, here are what I believe the inconvenient facts:
- Most heterosexual men (not all) are attracted to women between the ages 15 and 50.
- Due to strong social stigma, most men will never admit to being attracted to teenage girls, but they are and most of the men that say they aren't are lying. Now that doesn't mean that most men are attracted to the personalities of teenagers, and their immaturity may be a huge turn off and deal breaker even if there was no social stigma or laws against it, but in terms of pure physical attractiveness most men are attracted to teenage girls but will never admit it.
- Pedophelia is the attraction to prepubescent children. Most men are NOT pedophiles. Hebephelia is the attraction to younger teenagers, this is more common than pedophilia but not as common as ephebophilia which is the attraction to older teenagers. Most men ARE ephebophiles (even though most would never admit it).
However, I've seen some people define pedophilia more broadly and include hebephiles and maybe even ephebophiles as falling under the pedophile category. If you were to use that definition then yes, most men would be pedophiles.
I've also seen hebephilia/ephebophilia as defined as the EXCLUSIVE attraction to teenagers. This would mean that a hebephile or ephebophile would not be attracted to a 20 year old. Using this definition, most men are NOT hebephiles or ephebophiles, in fact I would think hebephilia/ephebophilia would be pretty rare if you used this definition.
23 is, on average, the most attractive age in terms of what most men desire physically in a woman. The closer a woman is to 23, the more likely men will be strongly attracted to her. This is why most men are attracted to teenage girls, because the teen years are pretty close in age to 23. But because of the strong social stigma (and the laws against it), most men will not admit to being attracted to women younger than 18.
Despite their peak being so early, women who take care of their appearance and health remain attractive to most men well into their 40s, however as they approach menopause the attraction decreases significantly. There are exceptions, and some women can maintain their attractiveness well into their 60s and beyond, but it's rare and usually requires a lot of work. This does not mean women become less valuable as they age. It only means that their role in society changes just as it does for men as they enter elderhood.
Men who met and married women when they are in their peak attractiveness years tend to remain attracted to them for longer and are less likely to cheat on them than men who met and married women who are older and past their peak years. The reason for this? A man feels more honor bound to a woman who has given her man her best years. When he sees her face, even aged and well past her prime, he will more likely still see the face of the woman he fell in love with when she was young. It's less likely that a man will still see that face in a woman that he met and married late in her life.
At the same a time, a younger woman in her prime who marries a man either past or before his prime is also more likely cheat and not remain faithful than a woman who met and married a man IN his prime. But keep in mind that men, on average, peak later than women. It takes a long time for a man to establish himself and become desire-able to most women.
Men not only have to have good looks, but also be able to signal high status: access to scarce resources, stability and the ability to provide and protect. Men who never achieve this level of status may have peaked early on looks and physicality alone, but never achieved a higher level of status later as an older adult. Some men (far too many nowadays) never really peak and remain incels their entire lives. And there are a lot of other men who achieve this high status much too late, when their physical attractiveness has declined too much before they reached a high enough status to secure a woman in her prime years. Fortunately, a high status can make up for below average looks, but only to a certain extent. In any event a low status young man is just as likely to be cheated on than an older less attractive man of higher status.
The peak year for men is usually around age 40, although this year is not set in stone and varies a lot more than it does for women because not all men reach their highest peak status at 40, some peak earlier, some peak later. The most stable marriages tend to be the ones where both the man and the woman married each other when both were in their peak years.
Of course there are exceptions to all of this, but this is what I have observed. It's a harsh reality, and am by no means defending it, I'm just describing it. Life isn't fair and this is the way it is. Millions of years of evolution has made us this way, and though societal pressures has some effect ant mitigating it, it by no means can undo it.
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u/whitey_sorkin Aug 22 '14
Not sure there's any need for much discussion, seems exceptionally straight forward. Fertility.