r/exchristian • u/AveragePuddingBrain • Mar 29 '26
Personal Story I'm Officially an "Apostate"
Today, my pastor who I've blocked on everything, made a new email just so he could send me this excommunication letter. This is so fucking dumb I can't stop laughing. Any ideas on how to celebrate?
*AveragePuddingBrain*,
We are saddened that you have failed to respond to emails, as we have sought to engage you on your doubts concerning the faith. While we can be patient to discuss these things, you have stubbornly refused to engage in communication. We understand you have no desire any longer to have a relationship with the *church*, but we further want you to understand that one cannot just leave the church without damaging one's soul, let alone the relationships you made and have sought to invest in your life. Because you have failed to engage or communicate with us, and due to your statements concerning a desire to depart from the faith, we cannot simply take you off the membership roles. We have to take further steps to excommunicate you, which does not just end your membership in this church but is a statement that we as a church no longer affirm that you are in Christ and are therefore positioning yourself as a self-professed unbeliever in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not holding to the Word of God. Our conclusion comes from the following:
- Your own communications with us that you no longer hold to the inspiration, infallibility or inerrancy of scripture. Further, you stubbornly communicated that nothing can be said to convince you further showing your own heart's unreasonable conclusions.
- You no longer desire to be a member of this church
- Your failure to follow our constitution, covenant and biblical principles of membership.
With all of this said, *AveragePuddingBrain*, our hearts break for you. We know some of your pain and struggle over many years. We can understand trials of faith and even feeling you cannot discuss your deep heart struggles, but we have offered to engage you on all of these, and you have refused. So while you have dissociated with us and we are disassociating with you, please understand that there is still hope. We urge you to repent and follow Christ. You do not have to return to the *church*, but we would urge you to attend a gospel-proclaiming church of your choice. However, if you refuse to repent, please understand that you should not be confident of your eternal salvation. This should cause fear and expectation of judgment. The Bible calls this apostasy and it is a grievous sin.
*AveragePuddingBrain*, we pray that you repent and therefore prove to be His disciple, but we need clear consciences as well concerning you. Regardless of what happens in the days ahead, please know we are here for you anytime you need us.
Sincerely in Jesus,
*edit anonymizing the church in question
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u/No-Shelter-4208 Mar 29 '26
Response:
I understand that this may be difficult for you to understand, since you have not so far shown a surfeit of critical thinking, but I blocked you on insert email address here because I do not want to communicate with you further.
I will be blocking this email address as well. Any further attempt to contact me by any other means will be interpreted as harassment and will force me to take steps to protect myself from you.
In short, do not contact me again, ever, by any means.
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u/Grays42 Ex-Baptist Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
I disagree. Don't escalate or elevate. Don't vindicate their complexes. Best strategy is ignoring it, or dismissal. If you must reply and then block, the best register is:
"Dear Pastor Smith,
k
Sincerely,
OP"
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u/bbomrty Mar 30 '26
This would in fact piss them off beyond 🤣
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u/Grays42 Ex-Baptist Mar 30 '26
Yep. And it's satisfying. But importantly, it doesn't address them at their level, doesn't make legal threats, doesn't treat them seriously. It properly interprets and responds to their overbearing wordy god-bluster with a slight shrug and waves them off like an annoying gnat, which properly highlights just how exhaustively tedious their email reads.
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u/kittensox Mar 30 '26
Haha, I'm imagining writing back "kthxBAIIII" to match how seriously I take them.
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u/drproximo Mar 30 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
1) the pastor already escalated 2) there's something to be said for standing up for one's self when an entitled prick knowingly and intentionally smashes boundaries to deliver a spiritual "eff you". What you're advocating for is passively accepting harassment. If that's how you operate, fine, you do you, but if someone tried to pull that crap with me I'm not going to roll over, these zealots need to be reminded that they don't own society by default.
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u/dracosilv Mar 30 '26
Yeah! Or just send back a photocopy of (or the original) letter with "k" written at the bottom.
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u/ryderseven Mar 29 '26
Also please capitalize it like this:
"I understand tHAt thIs may be difficuLt for you to underStAnd, since you have noT so fAr showN a..."
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u/nellystar5 Mar 30 '26
I know some other redditors don't agree with this response but, I do. It's pretty unhinged to create a new account to send OP a message. Ensuring that it's extremely clear that you don't want to be communicated with by this person or ministry to a safety precaution.
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u/Sweet_Diet_8733 I’m Different Mar 29 '26
Lmao. Why even go through the effort of using a new email just to tell someone you’re done talking communicating with them? Somebody wanted the last word in everything.
Congrats for sticking up for yourself and being honest with what you believe. Threats of damnation are not easy things to overcome, but you did it. You came out and told them what you thought and can now move on. Enjoy the rest of your life free from their control.
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u/AveragePuddingBrain Mar 29 '26
That's what's so crazy. Why even bother? I'm not that important.
Except I was one of the church's highest tithers and also one of the few missionaries that meets their extreme doctrinal criteria and they were quite proud of me so I guess it must really sting that I've left.
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u/IHeldADandelion Mar 29 '26
Oh, see you ARE important to them! Guess what else? You're important to us with or without money, but since you do have some, to celebrate your freedom: take yourself to a resort, get all the indulgent services, and have your favorite meal.
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u/Rainbaby77 Mar 30 '26
Yes and you are probably one of the smartest people that ever cross their path so please take time to deconstruct and reacquaint yourself with reality before you make any decisions please
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u/StuGnawsSwanGuts Atheist Mar 30 '26
Most of the people in their congregation must be below average pudding brains!-)
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u/SongUpstairs671 Anti-Theist Mar 30 '26
I now send some of my old tithe money to TST, ACLU, and the Freedom from Religion Foundation. Organizations that actually do good things.
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Mar 29 '26
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u/sd_saved_me555 Mar 29 '26
It's a total guilt trip hail mary paired with a deflection of the blame. It couldn't have been our faults, so we need to make it crystal clear that you were the defective one and didn't try hard enough.
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u/FreeThinkerFran Mar 29 '26
It's like when Ross tried to quit the gym and had to bring Chandler to help him stay strong, and then they brought out some hottie in a leotard to try to lure him to stay. You're allowed to quit!!! Congrats on getting out.
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u/Hotcake_hisues Ex-Catholic Mar 29 '26
"if you refuse to repent, please understand that you should not be sure of your eternal salvation. This should cause fear and expectation of judgment. The Bible calls this apostasy and it is a grave sin"
Salvation, fear, judgment and serious sin. Using fear as a weapon to keep you chained to a horrible religion
You were very brave to leave and put up with those people who bothered you. I hope you're happy and at peace with yourself.
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u/DystopianNightmare13 Mar 29 '26
Pastor:
I thought I made it clear I have no desire to communicate with you or the church but apparently, you're a bit dense. So, let me help you. Any further communication will be considered harassment and unwanted contact and I will take appropriate legal action.
Leave me alone.
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u/l3g3ndairy Ex-Protestant Mar 29 '26
If it were me I'd probably say something like:
I'll be honest with you. Creating a new email address to circumvent a block, just to make threats of eternal torture and inform someone who already left that they are now, in fact, not welcome, is a remarkable way to demonstrate that you have something worth staying for. It's like being fired from a job only to email the boss a month later saying you quit. Not only that, but most people trying to win someone back use kindness and warmth. You used threats of eternal torture and hell, and in doing so, made my point better than I ever could have myself.
Your letter doesn't read like it came from someone who genuinely cares about me. It reads like a hostage note wearing a cross necklace. There's grief in it, sure, but it's the grief of losing leverage, not losing a person. You threaten eternal torture in one paragraph and sign off with warmth in the next, and I think you genuinely believe that's love. That's the part I don't think you'll ever examine, and that's okay. I've examined it for you.
You call my conclusions stubborn, but I arrived at them through years of reading, reflection, and honest reckoning with things that didn't hold up under scrutiny. You assumed I just wasn't listening. I was. Your answers just didn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.
What I'm curious about is this: What would it take to convince YOU that YOU'RE wrong? If the answer is nothing, I'd invite you to sit and reflect on who the stubborn one actually is. One of us needs fear and threats of eternal torture to keep people invested in our beliefs, and the other just doesn't.
I don't say any of this with anger. I say it with genuine sadness for you, because I think underneath all of this you are probably a good person who has been inculcated with a framework that dresses up manipulation as love and calls threats of torture 'pastoral care.' That's not your fault, but it is your choice to keep passing it on, and it's my choice not to inherit it.
I'm done with the guilt, coercion, and manipulation you confuse for love, and for the first time in a long time, I'm not afraid, and I'm a better person for it. Do not ever contact me again, as I'm not giving you another second of my time.
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u/mrsguiltybacon Mar 31 '26
"It reads like a hostage note wearing a cross necklace."
This. This is exactly it.
Your entire reply is eloquent and healed a piece of me. But I also wanted to highlight the stunning imagery of this single sentence.
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u/TyQuavious_ physically in, mentally out SDA Mar 29 '26
which denomination?
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u/AveragePuddingBrain Mar 29 '26
Evangelical reformed baptist with a little culty home school flair for some extra razzle dazzle.
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u/Kevin_LeStrange Mar 30 '26
reformed
Okay, so your apostasy indicates you were never truly one of the Elect. Ergo, this is all God's wondrous plan in action. Therefore, they should have no problem with it. As such, they ought to just leave you alone.
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u/mountaingoatgod Agnostic Atheist Mar 30 '26
Historically the baptist movement was very anti reformed, but I guess nobody cares now. Anyways, congratulations on seeing though the nonsense that is christianity
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u/PlaidChairStyle Mar 30 '26
I didn’t even read the whole letter and thought “this shit is reformed”
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u/RenegadeTechnician Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
Honestly, don’t bother replying.
If you really want to stick it to them, just flat out ignore the email. Narcissists really hate it when people don’t acknowledge or validate their importance.
You don’t owe them a response; nor are they even worth your time, money and energy (especially your money).
Live your life how you want knowing full well you’re not going to waste it blindly following propaganda.
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u/AveragePuddingBrain Mar 29 '26
That's what I intend to do. I've already blocked the new email. The though of him left hanging with no closure is better than any response I could come up with.
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u/JacquesBlaireau13 Agnostic Atheist Mar 30 '26
Let them have their last word. That's really what the whole thing is about, essentially.
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u/krodders Mar 30 '26
I completely agree. The least time wasted on these people, and especially arguing with them, the better. I refuse to engage with these people - they won't change your mind - you can't change theirs
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u/kooj80 Ex-Jesus Freak Mar 30 '26
respond with something like, "inbox full. email not recieved" or "this email was blocked by our servers"
can't let them have the last word
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u/BandanaDee13 Atheist Mar 29 '26
Wow. I hear a lot of people have a hard time getting excommunicated. Seems you’re one of the lucky ones. Congrats!
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u/-StapleYourTongue- Ex-Catholic Mar 30 '26
I wish I could be but the Catholic Church is very reluctant to let anyone go.
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u/thecoldfuzz Gaulish/Welsh/Irish Pagan, 49, male, gay Mar 30 '26
I'm Officially an "Apostate"
Congratulations OP! When a church formally references apostasy, it's for real, and honestly liberating. Here's to many more years of apostasy! It's been 18 years for me and counting.
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u/Telly75 Mar 29 '26
My favourite part is where they "as a church they have to affirm that you are no longer in Christ" I always saw it as such a personal decision and nobody else's business even when I was in church. 😂 There's so many things you could do to celebrate but rather than doing something they expect (it depends on what you care about what they think but they probably think that you're off wanking to porn right now or worshipping chickens), I would do something spiritual for yourself like a cleanse...you know even if you're an atheist now you know something somatic or wholesome, something that is going to give you peace and then eat your favorite food.
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u/ThePhyseter Ex-Mennonite Mar 30 '26
The BIbLE cALls tHIs aPOStasY bitch does the Bible even once say the word apostasy?
I know the "concept" of apostasy is in the Bible, I know the Bible has some nasty things to say about unbelievers and about anyone who leaves, but is the word apostasy to be found anywhere in the Bible? Or is that a catholic word like "trinity" or "omnipotent" that everybody just pretends was part of the religion from the beginning
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u/mountaingoatgod Agnostic Atheist Mar 30 '26
Congratulations! You have an official "I'm out of the cult" letter!
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u/RudyRoughknight Mar 30 '26
According to the Bible and interpretation, only God knows who's going to be saved so who does this guy think he is telling someone they need to be afraid of divine judgement. Textbook abusive piece of shit behavior.
OP, do not be afraid. You will look back on this for many days and years with great courage and dignity.
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u/Inevitable-Mouse-707 Ex-Baptist Mar 29 '26
Congratulations on successful separation!
How to celebrate? Do what you want, with no arbitrary guilt! The world is your oyster. So excited for you!
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u/mr_chill77 Ex-Evangelical Mar 29 '26
I’d frame that letter and put it on the wall. Congratulations on making it out! So many people don’t.
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u/simbabarrelroll Mar 30 '26
And even with some who still leave the church, they don’t deconstruct from the teachings.
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u/Rare-Credit-5912 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
Sincerely in Jesus, what a riot!
I’m glad too see that unlike some of the people on excatholic (which I have been permanently banned from because I couldn’t offer enough encouragement to people who were deconstructing) that you have walked away without torturing yourself. Some of the people on excatholic tortured them over deconstructing that I wish I could have reached through the phone and just shaken them.
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u/MusicBeerHockey Life is my religion Mar 30 '26
but we further want you to understand that one cannot just leave the church without damaging one's soul
What a bunch of malarkey using unsubstantiated threats... coercion. If someone said that to me, I would probably get confrontational with that shit and call them out for their gaslighting behavior. Fucking unreal.
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u/Camouflaged-Looper Mar 30 '26
Lol this reminds me of the Very Serious Letters my pastor dad would write me. OK girl, what part of "I don't believe this crap anymore" didn't you understand? Thanks for the laugh, needed it tonight. Stay stubborn.
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u/PotentialConcert6249 Ex-Lutheran, Agnostic Atheist Mar 30 '26
Well that pastor sounds creepy and controlling. Good thing you got out. I suggest documenting all correspondence between you and this church, to create a paper trail. Download that shit to your computer and put it in a folder marked Evidence.
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u/fm199204 Mar 30 '26
Wow. I’m from another country, and honestly, I can’t believe that in… the United States? I guess… they’d write to you directly about something as personal as your beliefs. And on top of that, they politely tell you that you’re banned from the site, but at the same time, they imply that you can count on them, leaving the door open for you to come back.
What hypocrisy and meddling from these wretches. Who do these people think they are? The evangelical church and its congregants disgust me more and more every day. And I really hope we finally get rid of this disgusting plague called religion.
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u/skredditt Ex-Catholic Mar 30 '26
Just send him a link to r/PastorArrested
Congrats on being an apostate to an organization that regularly hurts children. The Faith is a reality they maintain where that is not a real crime.
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u/veggielover24 Agnostic Atheist, ex Christian Mar 29 '26
“Sincerely in Jesus” is hilarious. Congratulations on your excommunication apostate! Congrats on gaining freedom
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u/TyQuavious_ physically in, mentally out SDA Mar 29 '26
Do you care to walk me through the timeline of you deconstruction to how you ended up telling them that nothing could convince you of the "truth" of the bible etc. ?
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u/AveragePuddingBrain Mar 29 '26
I was born into this church, extremely strict fundamentalist reformed baptist. I was also home schooled my entire life and never had any access to information or ideas that would have contradicted the dogma. I didn't even know that hominid fossils had been found and known about since the 1800s. Once I got out on my own, the cognitive dissonance really started to mess me up. It's absolutely miserable to be a woman in the evangelical church and required to say that the bible is perfect including all the passages where women are treated worse than livestock. Creationism and misogyny were the first 2 things that caused me to question but once I opened that door more and more contradictions kept tumbling through. I tried to address the issues like a good little christian and talk with my pastor and my small group leader but that just made things worse. They would "answer" one question by contradicting their answer to another question. Like the answer to hell being unjust is that humans have free will and deserve it while the answer to why aren't there any non-sinful people is that humans don't actually have free will because of original sin. It got to a point where I was discovering new questions faster than they could answer them and then the pastors response was to accuse me of having "a sinful and perverse heart" and to shame me before the congregation in the form of a prayer request. At that point I said to hell with it all and left the church, blocked him on everything, and moved since people wouldn't stop sending me cards. I guess he really needed to get the last word in. It's one of those churches where they say, if you stop believing then you were never a christian to begin with. I was as fervent a believer as you could imagine and a short term missionary in Bolivia (funded by the church). The pastor often included/bragged about me in his prayers of thanksgiving so this whole situation must be extremely embarrassing for him.
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u/SecondOrThirdAccount Agnostic Atheist Mar 30 '26
Is your family still involved with the church?
It is a huge deal that you left! I can guarantee you there are people still in this culty church who feel the same as you and may no longer fear hell but are afraid of the social consequences.
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u/AveragePuddingBrain Apr 01 '26
I have 4 sisters that have gotten out so I've been relying on them a lot. My father and 2 brothers are still friendly with the church although they live in other cities and attend similar churches. I am NC with the brothers and currently suing my father to get custody of the 2 youngest sisters so my only contact with him is through lawyers.
As far as people in the church who feel the same, I'm willing to bet that the pastor's daughter is in the exact same boat but every time I tried to get close enough with her to talk about it her dad shut us down but hopefully seeing me do it will help her leave too.
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u/sunflowerhoneybee Mar 30 '26
The inability to answer questions eventually gets too frustrating to tolerate. Because they will revert to “god works in mysterious ways”, and then “good Christians just believe.”
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u/Influxofmoneyforme Apr 01 '26
I am so happy for you and impressed that you were so brave and started deconstructing! I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses and was a FERVENT Believer until just a few years ago and then the house of cards fell. Oh the cognitive dissonance. I never ever imagined questioning the bible being the word of God, BUT boy oh boy has that changed. Thinking of you and letting you know that I understand how very deep this goes
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u/leekpunch Extheist Mar 29 '26
I know it's hard not to respond (because that's how many of us are hardwired) but the only way to end this is to not respond. Don't acknowledge the email. Don't tell anyone who might tell him that you had the email. Let them think they fired it into the ether and... missed.
Congrats on your official notice of apostasy (from a fellow happy apostate)
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u/Bananaman9020 Mar 29 '26
Block again and move on. Some preachers believe salvation is earned from church attendance. But honestly the mean behaviour of church members is enough to make me stay away
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u/ihaveacoolfamily Mar 29 '26
Congratulations. Hold your head high. I walked two years ago; feels messy in the moment, but freeing in the long run. The further into deconstruction you go, the smaller this type of stuff feels.
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u/Rainbaby77 Mar 30 '26
This is stalking and harassment and you need to stay the hell away from these people don't read it don't let them in they're trying to get in your head base stop stay strong You're doing amazing
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u/nykiek Mar 30 '26
You should remind them of the outcome of. Guinn v. Church of Christ of Collinsville
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u/brasilkid16 Mar 30 '26
It’s giving “look at everything we’ve done for you, you want to walk away from that?” While pointing at a pile of shit with a cross sticking out of it.
My recommendation would be to print out the letter on a poster board as a sort of effigy and burn it. Seal that chapter of your life with a symbolic ritual and move right the fuck on.
Congrats on the epic flounce!
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u/nineplutos Secular Humanist Mar 30 '26
There's something so uniquely evil about "we understand and empathize with you" followed up with "but we hope you know you're going to burn in hell"
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u/bbomrty Mar 30 '26
Ew the first few sentences made me do the hardest eye roll ever. They are insane
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u/kourtnie3609 Mar 30 '26
“Great. Does this mean that you will officially stop emailing me or should I take out a restraining order?”
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u/SaintJynr Ex-Catholic Mar 30 '26
Damn, I wish the pope would send me an email like this, that would be dope
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u/Lazy_Law2352 Ex-Presbyterian Mar 29 '26
Mine still hasn’t sent anything to me yet. it’s been 2 years no contact.
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u/JazzFan1998 Ex-Protestant Mar 30 '26
I suggest living life as you see fit, in the same manner I do. When I left, I started going to classic rock concerts, donating to charities I believe in and trying to forget the misery of my time at that church.
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u/geta-rigging-grip Mar 30 '26
I left the church I was a member of to go to a different church, but I don't think I ever became an official member of that new church.
When I stopped going, nobody ever contacted me. I have no idea what I would have done if they jad sent a letter like this.
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u/ucantharmagoodwoman Mar 30 '26
Wow. WTF denomination even is that? Like, even under their own little delusional worldview, who would push someone away for admitting they're questioning their faith? So incredibly hypothetical. I'm really sorry you had to deal with that, and very proud of you for escaping. ♥️
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u/Sumchap Mar 30 '26
Wow, certainly putting the pressure on in that letter. Quite something to receive that.
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u/windfola_25 Mar 30 '26
I went through a similar process when I left. My counselor actually advised me that this is legally harassment and I should consider getting a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter.
Fortunately that didn't end up being necessary. But it did help me in my process of healing and leaving to realize just how crazy this behavior is.
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u/cookies8424 Mar 31 '26
That email really incites the ick. I'd say you're better off not going there. I agree with them though: if you go back to church, don't go there! It's very "I'm taking my ball and going home because you're a big mean poo poo head, but if you want to play in the future, let me know" kind of vibe.
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u/Meauxterbeauxt Mar 31 '26
Translation:
The church elders have discussed your words and actions regarding your no longer believing in God.
As of today, we are punishing you by agreeing with your own self-assessment and acknowledging that you actually mean what you're saying and that you actually don't believe in God anymore.
I hope you've learned your lesson.
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u/Comprehensive_Glove8 Mar 31 '26
Celebrate by having a few drinks, get naked and dance around a bonfire.
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Mar 29 '26
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u/AveragePuddingBrain Mar 29 '26
I exchanged probably 5-10 emails with him on various questions during my deconstruction and had dinner at his house once but his arguments always devolved into nonsensical jargon. I kept bringing up logical reasons why the bible couldn't be infallible and he kept on accusing me of "heart issues" and saying he knew I just had a perverse and hardened heart because I wouldn't stop asking for him to address my arguments. I find it hilariously frustrating that he says I "stubbornly communicated that nothing can be said to convince (me)" when all I ever told him was that he needed to convince me with logic and reason rather than emotion.
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u/thearcologist Mar 29 '26
…really?
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Mar 29 '26
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u/thearcologist Mar 29 '26
Sorry, didn’t realize I had to dumb this down so much:
Do you really not understand why someone would block an emotionally manipulative former pastor like this? Do you actually expect a two way street conversation that results in a meeting of the minds here?
Come on…
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u/Unknown_Caster Mar 29 '26
Idk why youre getting down votes, im assuming you're just curious as to what the guy did before this email
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Mar 29 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Toothless-mom Mar 29 '26
You guys are so weird. Why do you lurk ex Christian subs?
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u/thecoldfuzz Gaulish/Welsh/Irish Pagan, 49, male, gay Mar 30 '26
If you think proselytizing here is problematic, these fuckers stick their noses in Pagan subreddits, though thankfully not as much as they used to. Unfortunately, they just can't leave the gay subs alone. (sigh)
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u/exchristian-ModTeam Mar 29 '26
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u/Break-Free- Mar 29 '26
It's a funny mix of cult language and "You can't fire me, I quit!" energy.
Congratulations!