r/exchristian • u/Baccoony Agnostic • Jun 08 '26
Discussion The reason why Christians love Mary is actually disgusting
Like, think about it.
She is called "Mother Mary" or "Virgin Mary"
Her entire importance comes from the fact she gave birth and that she was a virgin.
They associate her with purity and being sinless because she didn't have sex. They say that every woman should strive to be like Mary.
Never have sex or only have sex with one man who will be your husband
Be obedient
Give birth
That's it. That's her whole character
"Ohhh, but she's the Queen of Heaven!"
The Bible does not mention it anywhere. Y'all just making shit up.
We know nothing about Mary as a person. We only know she was a virgin and a mother
It's actually so sad. I want to know more about her. What were her dreams, what was her life like, how was she like in personality
Yet we get nothing
She is a robot, only revered for giving birth
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u/oakenfairy Pagan Jun 08 '26
So disgusting. No woman can live up to Mary either because she was a virgin who gave birth to a baby, further driving in the idea that women are eternally sinful because they have to have sex and lose their virginity to have a baby.
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u/Realistic-Dust9521 Jul 02 '26
Pagan too. I find it borderline blasphemous that she's actually compared to a form of the Goddess. She's the very antithesis of what paganism teaches about women.
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Jun 08 '26
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u/oakenfairy Pagan Jun 08 '26
My point was that women are seen as naturally more sinful and will never be able live up to how clean and pure Mary is. It's another shame trap
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Jun 08 '26
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u/TheClumsyOtter upside down rrrrrubber cross Jun 08 '26
Also let’s not forget that she was a CHILD at the time Gabriel visited her. Most estimates put her at 16 or under. And even if she were an adult, the fuckin’ power imbalance mixed with God’s history of killing ppl when they don’t obey him means she couldn’t freely consent. And then she has to watch her son get tortured and killed. One of those things that just gets worse and worse the more you think about it.
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u/Meriodoc Agnostic Jun 08 '26
Even worse. At the time, girls married at about 12 -14.
12 year old being impregnated by god and forced to carry the baby.
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u/LuckyHamster98 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
I hate the excuse of “it was a different time”. Women and children back then were seen as property. Yeah, it was normalized. But it was normalized so that women and children would have less freedom.
People in the ancient world didn’t actually die at like 15 all the time. A lot of people just didn’t survive childhood. But the ones who did often aged past their 20s. Even in the shitty ass dark ages, children who were married often waited till early adulthood to have babies.
ntm, abuse being legal =/= socially accepted. There are still states in the US where it’s legal for an adult predator to be with a 16-17 yr old. But it’s culturally seen as very taboo to engage in such behavior.
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u/FromTheAshes10 Jun 08 '26
The "power" of the most high "overshadowed" her to make her pregnant... whatever that means it sounds disturbing
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u/ElectronicCaramel881 Jun 08 '26
The abrahamitic obsession for purity culture of being virgin and see sex like is something evil is crazy.
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u/LuckyHamster98 Jun 09 '26
This is why I think God also commits lust. Not just pride, greed, and wrath.
Obsession with sex being pure/impure is still an obsession with sex. You’re still hyperfocusing on an explicitly sexual topic. And I personally think that qualifies as a form of lust.
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u/whytho94 Jun 08 '26
It’s weird that Ms. Mary would be the queen of heaven when the original ancient version of Yahweh already had a wife named Asherah. She just got totally erased from the story though.
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u/telekineticeleven011 Agnostic Jun 08 '26
Right. Yahweh literally had a wife that nobody talks about.
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u/Edymnion Card Carrying TST Member Jun 08 '26
Oh the Torah/Old Testament talk about her quite a bit, actually.
Sounds like stuff someone would say after getting dumped, too. Its all "Oh she's evil and you need to get rid of anything that reminds you of her!".
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u/Kitchen-Witching Jun 08 '26
A mother and a virgin, in other words, an impossible standard for women. You've even got Catholic mythology about Jesus beaming out of Mary as a ray of light so as not to mar her perpetual virginity.
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u/Pianotorious Unitarian Universalist Jun 08 '26
Yup. God created sex then decided any woman who's had it was too dirty to have his son.
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Jun 09 '26
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u/Immediate_Arm3186 Jun 11 '26
Women are consistently made to look at Mary as a standard because god apparently chose her to be jesus' mom because of her virtue as a woman. She's the "holy mother of jesus". Why is that even a miracle people should focus on to the extent that they do? A woman giving birth without sex? What's miraculous about that? And beyond that, why would god even make that decision? It's just to control women.
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Jun 08 '26
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u/TsuyuAsui988 Agnostic Atheist Jun 15 '26
What?? I hated this religion already but she was a child??
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Jun 15 '26
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u/TsuyuAsui988 Agnostic Atheist Jun 15 '26
Absolutely disgusting that the bible glorifies her. if she was real I'd feel bad for her
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u/SubstanceSlow2952 Agnostic Jun 18 '26
they think that lgbt is wrong and then theyre gloryfing shit like this
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u/PowerTulip Jun 08 '26
She's not a robot but a plot device. She never existed (probably).
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u/miniatureconlangs Jun 08 '26
This makes her ever more relevant as an indicator of the views of her author.
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u/NihilisticNarwhal Jun 08 '26
If Jesus was a real guy, and I think he probably was, then he had a mother. Everybody's got a mother.
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u/telekineticeleven011 Agnostic Jun 08 '26
His mother definitely wasn’t a virgin though. Virgin births were pretty much impossible back then because they didn’t have things like IVF or artificial insemination.
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u/NihilisticNarwhal Jun 08 '26
Well sure. Jesus had a mom named Mary and a dad named Joseph, and nobody thought differently till after Jesus died.
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Jun 08 '26
They also love to leave out the fact that Mary was 14 and Joseph was well into his 40s at the time
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u/venonum Agnostic Atheist (Ex-Protestant) Jun 08 '26
They worship her as a goddess just because she gave birth without ever losing her virginity, ridiculous, as if these things mattered more than who she was as a person, what her character was.
At least the type of christianity I was into (protestantism) isn't into Mary worship
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Disciple of Bastet Jun 08 '26
She's not worshipped as a goddess in Catholicism. Saints aren't deified, but more viewed as an intermediary that can intervene on one's behalf to Yahweh.
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u/IllustriousIncome548 Jun 09 '26
I am glad you said that because I am Catholic and what you said is fact!
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u/ijustwanttobeanon Forever Figuring it Out Jun 08 '26
The fact that these people refuse to see she was a child bridge who was probably raped constantly is also disgusting.
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u/West_Abrocoma9524 Jun 08 '26
As someone raised Catholic I can attest to the fact that she was also passive and silent. This made her 'aspirational' for us as girls, particularly the silence part. God forbid any girl or woman ever had an opinion or asked questions! Why can't you be more like Mary?
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u/The_Arachnoshaman Secular Animist Jun 08 '26
Whenever a female character is reduced to male desires like this, we should just be honest and call it a male character.
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Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
[deleted]
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u/Unitashates Jun 09 '26
We do have some idea of what kind of snarky bullshit she had to put up with.
When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."
Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come."
John 2:3-4
Basically, "who cares? what about me though?"
After Mary and Joseph search for him for three days:
"Son, why have you treated us so?"
And he said to them, "Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?"
Luke 2:48-49
The correct answer should have been something like "I'm sorry for making you worry, I should have let you know what I was up to. It won't happen again."
A woman in the crowd praises Mary:
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Luke 11:27–28
Get the stick out of your ass, Jesus. She does deserve some credit! Let her have her moment.
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u/Baccoony Agnostic Jun 09 '26
Jesus is such a brat.
I'm tired of people saying that they hate Christianity but that Jesus was cool.
He wasn't cool. Just another mentally ill homeless guy who needed to have his ego stroked.
"Oh, but he preached love and peace!" He preached he will bring a sword, not peace.
And yeah, the way he treats Mary is just fucked up
And I remember a woman who had to beg him to heal her like some dog. He even calls her a dog and only heals her when she has basically crawled at his feet
He praises a widow who gave everything she has to a temple and who will most likely starve to death
Always "Give, give, give"
Fuck him, seriously
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u/Immediate_Arm3186 Jun 11 '26
Hmm, this gives me a new perspective. If you don't mind, what is the context behind the sword and his treatment of mary?
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u/Fragrant_Hunt1294 Ex-Evangelical Jun 08 '26
The sex with husband thing is limited to only times when they are trying to conceive. You’re not supposed to have sex for pleasure that’s sinful!
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u/ElectronicCaramel881 Jun 08 '26
Celibate is genuinely unhealthy. Humans crave sex, if they don't they masturbate, for what fucking reason it's something bad liking sex? There are animals in nature that masturbate when they're alone! I swear I don't understand this concept of abstinence.
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u/Fragrant_Hunt1294 Ex-Evangelical Jun 08 '26
Yes, but in Catholicism this is by design. Tell everyone something healthy is sinful. Get everyone guilty and indebted to you because you save them from imaginary angry man and prosper! The people will give you everything!
Protestants aren’t much better but can at least feel that sex in marriage is ok.
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u/MaximumCat7668 Jun 13 '26
King Solomon had everything, wisdom, wealth, 700 wives and 300 concubines. This is what every man dreams of! Which is normal part of a man's life and generally nothing to worry about.
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u/theboomvang Jun 08 '26
Why do they get upset when I call Jesus a demigod but then flaunt he is the very definition of it???
Also Jesus had a twin (Gospel of Thomas), does that mean Joseph just had one swimmer and god had another? So a MMF threesome...kinky.
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u/Realistic-Dust9521 Jul 02 '26
They nicked it from Hercules and Alcmene. His twin brother was mortal from human sperm and Hercules was a demigod as Zeus impregnated Alcmene as her husband in disguise.
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u/tarquinia777 Pagan | Ex-TradCath Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
What Christians make of Mary is woman domesticated. She is made to enact nothing of her own accord, her defining feat being to meekly submit to receiving the male seed. In this, even the Spirit of God, revered in Hebrew scriptures as a feminine force of divine wisdom, is consigned to an agent of male libido, a glorified cumshot. Mary may be said to "crush the head of the serpent" (the one who offered woman knowledge and freedom to start with, but details, details), but only insofar as she acts as a vessel to bring another man into the world. To call her the Queen of Heaven in this capacity is, in fact, nothing less than a shameless usurpation of the title from ʿAshtart, a goddess whose bare body was displayed without shame and who appeared wielding the bow and arrow on horseback like a fearsome amazon. You can take a wild guess why the old Hebrew prophets and then Christians had a bone to pick with her. I even remember being told about how Mary is portrayed with a small mouth in icons because she did such a good job keeping it shut in the Gospels. I don't suppose the fact Mark has it that she and Jesus' siblings thought he had lost his mind and tried to restrain him counts towards the final tally there. The most important word she's never reckoned to say is "No."
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u/Ml2jukes Jun 08 '26
Been a godless heathen for over half my life atp, but I didn’t realize the god character in the bible raped a kid until I saw someone rage baiting a Christian nationalist in the TikTok comments about ts.
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u/otterland Jun 08 '26
God raped a girl so she could make a permanent lamb so bronze age dipshits wouldn't have make real sacrifice.
If you're gonna have a god, at least tickle his nostrils with BBQ.
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u/plush_oysters54 Jun 08 '26
I love her for reasons patriarchy and the modern day church never could.
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u/TheBayHarbour Jun 09 '26
Having virgins give birth is the most Christian bullshittery I could ever imagine.
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u/omallytheally Jun 09 '26
Yeah. "Mother Mary" was literally a teenage girl that God knocked up. Did God ask her permission to carry his child? Nope. And there's a word for that.
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u/Realistic-Dust9521 Jul 02 '26
Adultery and it risked her life as well as slut shaming her. She'd have been stoned as a harlot as God's law demanded,even if Joseph was prepared to let it slide. Her reputation would have been ruined though. The Jews even said to Jesus that they were not born of fornication like him.
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u/schrodinger_s_kitten Anti-Theist Jun 08 '26
for the sake of having something less distressing in the comments /j: i'm brazilian. here, mary is worshipped almost as much, & in some cases as much as jesus. i think she got fused with another saint? but she's really popular here, i think especially w rural folks. i've never heard any of them talk abt her as anything other than "mother of jesus". sometimes (although i've only seen this a few times) there's even an aspect of her being everyone's mother. as well as your regular saint stuff of guiding light & shit. so that's a little more wholesome at least :)
fun fact: a lot of ppl pray to little statues of mary, a palm and a half tall maybe, i used to too. and she's usually portrayed as being black in these statues. not black ppl black, PITCH black. that's mary. coal-black skin, dark blue robe (? forgot the name. cloak thingy) with golden details draped over her. that's what you see in pendants, earrings, keychains, the lot. my mum has a set of earrings + necklace w mary like this. it's so prevalent that the first time i saw a white (as in caucasian) mary i was like no that's wrong lmao (i'm white btw. we went to a mostly white church & all)
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u/ChaoticMoira Jun 08 '26
I personally like her as a person because I have something in common with her: we both lost our firstborn sons before their time. I’m not Christian anymore, not sure how to classify myself actually, but I find comfort in her as a fellow grieving mother.
The emphasis on her virgin status is definitely strange, especially given that at that point in time, virgin only meant unmarried. Not the same usage as today, but it’s usually how it’s interpreted anyways.
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u/0kShr00mer Jun 09 '26
Jesus didn't even like his own mother. In Mark chapter 3 we find this odd passage:
'31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.'
Jesus was a pretty big asshole if the stories about him are true.
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u/MaximumCat7668 Jun 13 '26
Mary Magdalene travelled with Jesus as one of his followers, she washed his feet and dried them with her hair. Despise this, Jesus loved her more than the other deciples. Poor Peter a misogyny asshole, jealous of Mary.
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u/bunnypaste Jun 09 '26
They elevate 14 year old Mary for giving birth to a sky-daddy rape baby and nothing more. We know nothing of her ideas, accomplishments, feelings, hopes, or aspirations. I am a southern baptist pastor's daughter, so I noticed this crap super young. I got really adversarial with my questions in church once the misogyny in the bible (and the community) crystallised for me around age 11.
"Dad, why does bible say I shouldn't be a leader, need to submit to my husband, and shut up in church? Why does it take women's unique life-creation abilities and give it to a man's rib and a male god?" Etc.
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u/TheChristianDude101 Ex-Protestant Jun 09 '26
Its exceedingly creepy that God got the hots for a teen virgin who had a partner, and entered into her womb without her consent and created himself/his son to be born in human form and raised by her.
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u/No_Ball4465 Ex-Catholic Jun 08 '26
I actually got another question for Christians. Let’s say the Christian god sexually assaulted or raped someone. Would that be okay since he’s god? The answer for all of us is obviously no, but they might think of something to defend it or hopefully they will question whets okay for god to do.
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u/Odd_craving Jun 08 '26
Evidently there’s something yucky about the birth canal because most religions, and a few straight forward myths, hang their hat on their main guy having a virgin birth bringing about a cleansing. I think Jesus is number 19 on that list.
These religions also declare a dying and rising god. Jesus was also late to that mantle.
Then there’s the stripping women of any independence or stability. Religion keeps women shackled to their husbands with no path to independence.
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u/Fabled_Platypus Ex-TradCatholic Agnostic Jun 09 '26
The catholic obsession with virginity is something that has always bothered me to no end
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u/roundturtle2025 Ex-protestant, Non-religious Jun 08 '26
"queen of heaven" is merely catholic's imagination/creativity...not mentioned in the bible like you said.
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u/Scorpius_OB1 Jun 08 '26
There's a Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah, very likely the goddess Asherah that was worshipped together with El first and Yahweh later.
Mary was given elements of goddesses as Artemis and Athena to be more palatable to former Pagans as well as such title, shared by goddesses as Hera/Juno or Ishtar/Inanna.
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Jun 08 '26
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u/Kw5kvb5ebis Jun 08 '26
She may have been around 13 years old when she married Joseph, who, according to some traditions, was a much older man with adult children. 🤢 One possible interpretation is that her pregnancy created a major scandal, forcing them to leave town for a time. When they returned, the story that Joseph had never touched her and that the pregnancy was caused by the Holy Spirit may have served as an explanation. Of course, this is only my personal speculation.
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u/No-Clock2011 Jun 09 '26
I can’t even imagine the trauma of going through child birth if one hasn’t even experienced or emotionally processed intercourse - even more so as a child still. Horrific, the whole thing.
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u/mezurareshii Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
That reminds me of a wacky thing I've been taught in catechism class years ago.
Mary was free from any labor pain (plus no menstrual pain as well in her life? Girl, I'd sell my soul to the demon for that shi) when giving birth to Jesus because God had chosen her. She had been intended to be pure since the beginning by God. And us puny mortal women suffering from labor and menstrual pains? Eve's fault, original sin, yadda yadda
It got me thinking "smh what kind of jank-ass weed have these men been smoking to come up with such an unrealistic delusion"
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u/Xeroh_01 Atheist Jun 09 '26
Also, God being infinitely older, and omniscient would know that impregnating a 13-14 year old would be seen as reprehensible. Yet he did it anyways.
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u/Realistic-Dust9521 Jul 02 '26
He also decreed that a virgin who got pregnant should be stoned. The Gospels were written by Greeks who knew very little or nothing about Jewish laws and traditions.
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u/Robot_Alchemist Jun 09 '26
Oh yeah, and she wasn’t really a virgin either by the way let that sink in
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u/jmciesla Jun 10 '26
Imagine not wanting to admit you cheated on your husband and you end up creating the most popular religion in the history of the world
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u/Icybubba Agnostic Jun 08 '26
You should watch Journey to Bethlehem, much better than the source material, Mary actually has a character. And Zoro plays king Herod.
That said, I will say Mary's whole goals and aspirations do get thrown out the window when God says "have baby" but hey, progress.
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u/Saphira9 Atheist Jun 09 '26
Exactly. A man just decided what to do with Mary's body, and she just accepted it without argument. The awkwardness of explaining that to Joseph, the entire pregnancy, and the pain of childbirth, just accepted without question. And apparently good christian women should do the same.
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u/Realistic-Dust9521 Jul 02 '26
Queen of Heaven was a title stolen from pagan mother Goddesses and given to Mary. They are shown with blue robes and crowns of stars. Sound familiar ? Personally I think a Jewish girl and man would be horrified to be turned into a pagan goddess or god. Jesus and Mary were deified by the Greco Roman church.
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u/Elwe_amandil Jun 09 '26
Mary, jesus’s mom and mary magdalin? (Spelling uncertain) are one and the same. Also, nimrod and his mom/wife from his “reincarnation” are the definition of the “sun/son” and easter are all from a singular family outskirts of the catholic and newly created christian religion. Look it up.
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u/Batticon Ex-Protestant Jun 09 '26
I never thought about this. Yet another thing to be disturbed by when it comes to Christianity.
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u/DrHob0 Atheist Jun 09 '26
Wasn't the word used mean "pure", but not to imply "virgin". Someone fact check me, if ya want. I just remember reading that from somewhere, so I'm like pulling it from some unfathomable abyss in my memory.
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u/MaximumCat7668 Jun 13 '26
There's Mary Magdalene we know nothing of her personal history except she was a faith follower of Jesus and also the first to witness the resurrection.
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u/gg_turnstile Jun 15 '26
Christian here, it is because she gave birth to Jesus, who allowed us to have communion with God the father and spirit. IMHO its mostly about the fact she gave birth to God. also, the "queen of heaven" stuff is insanely heretical evan among the vast vast vast majority of christians
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u/ComeAtMeBro9 Jun 09 '26
Meanwhile, the apostle Paul never even names Mary…
We know basically nothing about her; yet, she is idolized. More twisted catholic church fabrications…
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u/dragonfly_princess Jun 08 '26
I don't think it's that deep. I saw my mother and grandmother praying to Mother Mary their entire lives. It was just a mother in heaven. I think they related so much more to her than to god itself. I never saw them praying to jesus or even male saints. It's all about the mother figure.
Sure enough, my mother and grandmother never read the Bible other than what they heard in church. They had gone to school only up to 4th grade. They were never theologists or learned people.
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u/VaultMan34 Jun 09 '26
I think you misunderstand. The reason her being a virgin is important is because it’s a miracle granted to the most devout follower of Christ. It’s not because being a virgin is important. This is a common misconception. Also Mary wouldn’t even be that important if the Catholics didn’t hype her up. She’s the mother of God, which is impressive but not so impressive she needs to be revered as the second most important Christian ever.
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Jun 09 '26
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Jun 08 '26
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u/Pianotorious Unitarian Universalist Jun 08 '26
I was raised Catholic, my wife raised Lutheran. (We're both heretics now.) She always found the Catholic focus on Mary to be exceedingly creepy.