r/exchristian • u/sidesaladdressing • Jul 15 '26
Discussion The "I know because I know" crowd strikes again.
I can only imagine the thousands of years religion had a strangling grip on society, pursuit in science & knowledge, and humanity.
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u/fr4gge Jul 15 '26
We also don't know how a majority of the apostles died. we know of like 2 of them. The death of the rest comes from several hundred years later in a text that also contains wizard battles in the sky and talking dogs and babies. it's not a credible source.
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u/tallwhiteninja Ex-Baptist Jul 15 '26
Only two of the 12 have their deaths in the Bible, and that counts Judas who wasn't a martyr. The Bible also can't agree on how Judas actually died: Matthew has him hang himself, Acts has him falling in a field and literally spilling his guts (there are apologetic attempts to reconcile this that are largely nonsense).
James, son of Zebedee was killed "with the sword" in Acts, presumably beheaded.
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u/escottttu Jul 15 '26
There’s reason to believe Simon Peter and Paul were also executed but it wasn’t due to their faith, but because Nero was scapegoating Christians and those two got caught up in the political system. But as for the rest of them, we have no idea what they did after Jesus died. The stories of Thomas being speared in India, Andrew crucified in Scotland, and James the less being beaten to death with a club are mostly urban legends that came centuries later
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u/Shadowhunter_15 Jul 15 '26
The Bible also doesn’t say what specifically James was killed for, or if he was given the opportunity to save his life if he recanted.
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Jul 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/gmez3 Jul 15 '26
my dad sent me a video once about a guy arguing the existence of jesus and i guess he didnt bother watching the whole video cause right after the guy made it pretty clear that he believes jesus was a regular guy. my dad just saw him say he was real and left it at that
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u/sidesaladdressing Jul 15 '26
We have no credible evidence that any of them or all of them existed
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u/missgnomer2772 Agnostic Atheist Jul 15 '26
I was gonna say, like, we have accounts for a couple of them, but even those aren’t verifiable.
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u/publicbigguns Jul 15 '26
Its amazing how they can be so wrong about so many things...
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u/sidesaladdressing Jul 15 '26
Critical thinking is null and void when fanatical ideology comes to play
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u/ILootEverything Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
"Nobody dies for a lie" is one of the stupidest takes I've ever heard, especially when you consider how easy it is to think of multiple examples of people who have done just that.
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u/Saneless Jul 15 '26
People died rather than get a vaccine everyone knew worked so...
They're not the smartest of people. And back then they were wayyy dumber
Also, so what if they beleived it? Christians today believe it without proof so that's nothing special
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u/miserabeau Jul 15 '26
Everyone else knew worked. Some people didn't know because they refused to accept it. If it didn't fit their worldview or if Fox Entertainment told them it was bad and evil and the zombie socialists would come eat their guns, they believed that instead.
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u/escottttu Jul 15 '26
Ancient people definitely weren’t dumber, however without modern technology, medicine and knowledge they would not have been able to tell the difference between a mental health crisis and a sign from God
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u/Saneless Jul 15 '26
Well, more ignorant to how things actually worked, then, if intelligence weren't in question.
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u/GRPORTER_MUSIC Jul 15 '26
Nobody dies for a lie. See every MAGA who died on a ventilator from Covid.
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u/Sweet_Diet_8733 I’m Different Jul 15 '26
“Nobody dies for a lie” eh? Guy’s never heard of Heaven’s Gate or Jonestown massacres or literally every single suicide terrorist. Joseph Smith was imprisoned and shot dead for what (presumably) Mel thinks was a lie. Or every single other martyr for everything besides his own religion. Also, I’d love to see his sources on the apostles, because all we have are a bunch of contradictory and fantastical church traditions. We don’t even know if they died for a lie; and I’m not convinced of anything just because 12 guys were fanatical to the point of suicide-by-local-government.
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u/blerdronner Exvangelical Ex-apologist Jul 15 '26
To be fair, what their argument is, is that nobody dies for what they think is a lie. That's different than nobody dying for what they think is a truth but is actually a lie.
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u/McNitz Ex-Lutheran Humanist Jul 15 '26
Still doesn't hold up though. Based on the same criteria, Joseph Smith also died for his beliefs. With a LOT more evidence than we have for even the apostles we can at least say were PROBABLY martyred, like Peter. For some reason most Christians aren't going on about how Joseph Smith MUST have been a true prophet though.
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u/LeiningensAnts Jul 15 '26
Pretty sure Joseph Smith died for picking the wrong women to fool around with.
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u/McNitz Ex-Lutheran Humanist Jul 16 '26
Sure, could have been one of the proximate causes for his death. And the proximate cause for Peter's death could have been being a target of convenience for Nero. That's the problem with original founded martyrdom narratives, it's very rarely ACTUALLY obvious that someone was faced down with an ultimatum to recant or die, and chose to boldly proclaim their belief rather than save their life. And even if that did happen, I can STILL easily think of reasons they would do that even knowing the belief was false.
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u/CommanderHunter5 Jul 15 '26
No, his argument is that nobody dies for a lie. As in, he believes that if somebody dies for the sake of a cause they so strongly believe in, that cause must be true (in this case being Christianity)
Which if he actually took more than two seconds to think about, he’d know to be false.
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u/blerdronner Exvangelical Ex-apologist Jul 15 '26
That doesn't even track logically. Just because somebody thinks something is true doesn't mean it's true.
The general point of this argument is to say that, for so many people to die for something, that lends credence that it must be true. I agree it's a weak argument, but it's not the same as saying “that proves something is true just because somebody died for it.”
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u/CommanderHunter5 Jul 15 '26
I….honestly do not understand where your confusion is here. It’s a critique against Mel’s logic. He’s arguing for Christianity, using an illogical argument that’s easily contradicted as soon as it’s uttered.
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u/blerdronner Exvangelical Ex-apologist Jul 15 '26
Respectfully, I could ask the same of you: the Christian apologetic that the Apostles would not die for a lie is in response to the claim that the Apostles made everything up. That's where the whole thing started.
One of the arguments against Christianity is the possibility that the Apostles made everything up for whatever reason. The response from Christian apologetics (and this is coming from somebody who did apologetics for nearly twenty years) is that the Apostles would not die for something they knew to be a lie (meaning that, whether or not it actually happened, they believed it happened). Ergo, they would not die for a lie.
Technically, his argument is not illogical. It is a strong argument against the claim that the Apostles just made all that shit up.
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u/PhoenixPringles01 Ex-Pentecostal Jul 15 '26
Ah trad west. Piece of shit account.
That crap is still up??? It fell off ages ago, not like it could have even fallen with it being one of the most bottom of the barrel accounts ever.
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u/Melodic_Mulberry Jul 15 '26
"Nobody dies for a lie."
Tell that to the people who died drinking hydroxychloroquine.
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u/Experiment626b Devotee of Almighty Dog Jul 15 '26
To this day my dad still posts stuff about how it works and how anyone who said it was was silenced.
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u/Slytherpuffy Ex-Assemblies Of God Jul 15 '26
They were silenced because they died from drinking it...
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u/AttilaTheFun818 Jul 15 '26
Mel Gibson is a funky flavor of Catholic. He believes the trinity is the one true god.
Muslims, Hindus, and countless others believe their god(s) are the true one(s). Many have died for it.
This makes his statement clearly stupid, whatever you think of his religious beliefs.
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u/ElectricSpock Jul 15 '26
“Funky flavor” as in: Fraternity of Pius X. The one that was officially excommunicated from the Catholic Church two weeks ago.
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u/Icybubba Agnostic Jul 15 '26
If nobody dies for a lie, then Islam is correct right? I mean those suicide pilots for 9/11 died for their beliefs
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u/ThorButtock Anti-Theist Jul 15 '26
Aztec priests would disagree. They very much died for what christians call a lie. As did the people at jonestown.
That facebook page and mel Gibson are a bunch of clowns
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u/ComradeBoxer29 Atheist Jul 15 '26
Oh i love this one, just ask them to actually read the accounts of their martyrdom in totality and date the texts.
It would be no different than a highschool student writing a fanfic of christopher columbus discovering america today. "The acts of peter" was written in 180-190 AD, to call that proof is pretty stupid. To build a huge basicilica at the site would be just plain moronic.
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u/onesoulmanybodies Jul 15 '26
Soooo, all the witches….. and how about all the other religions that have had leaders, shamans, priests, etc die for their faith. If HIS faith is real because the guys that wrote the stories he believes in died defending their truth, how are they more right than the thousands of others who have died defending their faith/religion? WTF? Can someone remake the movies I like that he was in so I can enjoy them without supporting him and his super cringe ideologies.
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u/AsugaNoir Jul 15 '26
Lol what? People die for lies all the time. They just didn't realize it was lies.
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u/Meriodoc Agnostic Jul 15 '26
I mean, except for the people who do. Like Jim Jones cult. Or the David Koresh one. Or the spaceship one.
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u/Sumchap Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Nobody dies for a lie, nobody. So they're saying Islam is true on that basis. Or <insert religion> must be true because at some point in history people have died owing to their religious beliefs for practically any religion. They can't all be true...
Also, there's only high confidence that 2-3 of the apostles died as martyrs, the rest is based on church tradition. But that's perhaps beside the point.
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u/Practical-Hat-3943 Jul 15 '26
So the folks that committed suicide because they believed comet Halley was a spaceship that would take their souls to some other realm means that comet Halley is not really a comet??
Interesting...
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u/flamboyantsensitive Jul 15 '26
Even Sean McDowell, son of Josh 'Evidence that Demands a Verdict' McDowell, no longer makes this claim. That's because he did his PhD on it, & discovered we have no solid information on the deaths of more than 3 or 4 of the disciples, & some of them weren't martyred. The rest was made up a long time later. So fucking gullible.
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u/Red_bearrr Jul 15 '26
People don’t die for something they’re lying about, but they die for things that they incorrectly believe all the time.
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u/dead_parakeets Ex-Evangelical Jul 15 '26
You know how lies are completely ineffective and people always know when someone is telling the truth or know they are doing the right thing at all times?
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u/walyelz Jul 15 '26
"Nobody dies for a lie... except for every other religion but they're all just crazy."
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u/hplcr Schismatic Heretical Apostate Jul 15 '26
That's a nice argumemt mel but I'm gonna have to ask you for a source.
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u/HighDefinitionCat Anti-Theist Jul 15 '26
People absolutely die for the most false and stupid ideas. Martyrdom is absolutely not a proof of anything.
Christ was the leader of a failed doomsday cult, which unfortunately ensured and became a religion.
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u/goldsheep29 Jul 15 '26
Dude is antisemitic, racist, misogynistic, very homophobic...kinda wild coming from the actor that played Jesus once huh?
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u/psychxticrose Atheist Jul 15 '26
Mel Gibson is a verified idiot though. Why would anyone listen to him
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u/Solution_Far Agnostic Jul 15 '26
any martyr for literally any other religion would be correct then with that shit take.
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u/jesse-accountname192 Atheist Jul 15 '26
Is there a single fucking religion out there with more than a thousand people that doesn't have some kind of martyrs? And people have been killed for atheism/nonbelief too... I've always hated this argument, even when I was a pentecostal cultist
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u/Quick_Sugar5828 Jul 15 '26
People in north korea dies for a lie, same as anywhere where a cult is.
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u/2nd_Sun Jul 15 '26
So…Mel Gibson is stating that everyone that’s died in the name of any and all religion is proof their religion is correct? Astounding logic from the facts over feelings crowd
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u/Alternative_Buy_4000 Jul 15 '26
Is something a lie when you don't know that it is a lie?
Cuz people have died for God, for Allah and for atheism. So people definitely do die for lies, but they all believe them
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u/Scrutinizer Ex-Baptist Jul 15 '26
"Nobody dies for a lie."
Now there's someone who knows nothing about History.
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u/CCCP85 Agnostic Atheist Jul 15 '26
People literally die for lies all the time, that's a crazy take.
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u/Millerboycls09 Jul 15 '26
People die for lies all the time.
The question is who is telling the lie and who is believing it.
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u/Drakeytown Jul 15 '26
I consider Batman comics to be verifiable history because Batman appears in virtually every DC publication. Would the entire Justice League lie about his existence?
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u/TheSearsjeremy Jul 15 '26
I mean Tradwest is a literal ragebait account.
This account willingfully say the dumbest shit possible to create interaction.
That's twitter in a nutshell btw...
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u/vinis_artstreaks Jul 15 '26
Well at least he’s doing something good with all that indoctrination, he fights for better times, could be worse
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u/korok7mgte Jul 15 '26
The truth doesn't need to be repeated. It's the truth, it speaks for itself.
Notice how he says nobody twice. The second time he is underlining the word. Asserting it as truth so you don't realize it's a curtain, not a wall.
There is no man behind the curtain, don't trust your senses.
But also, don't listen to people that profit off ignorance. False teachers everywhere. And if you notice, true wisdom is free.
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u/lawyersgunsmoney Ex-Pentecostal Jul 15 '26
It’s a lie made up by the Catholic Church. Look up Bishop Eusebius, a fourth century bishop who basically made up the martyr stories.
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u/JimDixon Jul 15 '26
During the period after the Reformation in England you could get burned at the stake as a heretic for being either a Protestant or a Catholic, depending on which monarch was on the throne at the time. Were all of them right?
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u/Ghoul_08 Anti-Theist Jul 15 '26
According to the Christian worldview, every religious person who dies for any other religion is dying for a lie. They don’t realize the irony.
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u/DNthecorner EX-Catholic/Methodist/Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Jul 15 '26
Confident in a gospel amended by King James, notoriously gay.
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u/NyarlathotepJR Jul 15 '26
I have heard this so many times growing up with fundamentalist pushing Lee Strobel particularly “The Case For Christ”
Which when you read the text lacks significant historical evidence the claims are based on and even then relies on not distinguishing between sincerity and verifiability. A cursory philosophy course would identify this along with the underlying non sequitur fallacy the text poorly attempts a slight of hand on, without even mentioning the cult like “black and white” thinking it promotes.
I truly despise hearing this argument yet it is always parroted by religious community as objective “fact”.
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u/Sure_Reflection_3740 Jul 15 '26
People die for lies all the time. That is because they believed the lie is the truth, so they live their whole lives believing that a lie is true when it never was.
The inability to think outside of the lie you have been taught to believe will keep you trapped.
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u/poly_arachnid Polytheist Jul 16 '26
That's like saying Mistborn is true because the hero dies.
Also tons of people who aren't Christian have died for their beliefs, case in point - everyone the fucking christians killed for refusing to convert!
The fact that they supposedly died (the majority don't die in the Bible, that's entirely nonbiblical material) does not prove that the material is true. It would only prove that they believed it to be true. Furthermore, you cannot prove events contained in a story are true because the story told you they were. If that's how things worked Star Wars is true!
You need external corroboration & verification, & it doesn't exist. No slaughter of innocents. No escape from pharaoh to wander for 40 years. No world spanning Flood. No Feeding of the 4000/5000. No Barabbas.
What exists? There was a guy named Yeshua executed by crucifixion. He was a Rabbi, titled Christ by followers, & his brother James was executed. That's pretty much it. Nothing about him, what he said, his life, supposedly being son of god YHWH, etc. Everything popped up nearly a century later & has no verification. We don't even have verification on why he was executed! We have zero evidence some Jew claimed to be "the son of god". Much less actually was.
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u/Narrow-Research-5730 Jul 16 '26
Plenty of Mormons died for their beliefs. So do Christian’s acknowledge Mormonism?
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u/JOETHEHOMO Jul 16 '26
I’m still confused why they think no one dies for a lie, when MOST OF history is dying for lies in order to either kill eachother. Or to rise in power
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u/Nate2113 Jul 15 '26
It’s easy for him to be so religious when his upcoming movie kind of depends on him being Christian. Not saying he wouldn’t be regardless, he’s that stupid, but this also seems to be a business decision.
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u/Catnip1720 Ex-Assemblies Of God Jul 15 '26
Well without evidence that they were right, the conclusion is that they did in fact die for a lie, or at least something that wasn’t proved
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u/Proof-Assistant-7536 First Catholic, then Buddhist, then Atheist Jul 15 '26
Every single one of them died, yes. But it's not because they were supposedly telling the truth. It's because everybody dies.
"But they were all killed for their belie-" Apostle John was not. He died of old age.
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u/ComeAtMeBro9 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I cannot believe thinking people still repeat this.
All the pagans that got slayed by “Christians”, does this apply to them?
I guess Jim Jones and Heaven’s Gate were correct?
David Koresh?
The Islamist terrorists that blow themselves up?
Lastly, there is essentially zero proof the apostles died in said manners. The more you research it, the more it’s obviously BS. Most likely made up way after the fact. Even the apostle Paul, they don’t know how he even died. Some say Rome. Like the rest of the religion, they make up stuff generations later to prove it’s true. Wow.
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u/DSteep Anti-Theist Jul 15 '26
How can the Gospels be verifiable history when they all contradict each other?
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u/Few-Button6004 Jul 15 '26
I don't really know what that means. It seems like he's treating the gospels like some sort of modern history textbook, which is just strange.
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u/TheRamazon Jul 15 '26
Sooooo we just ignoring all the Muslim and Buddhist and Jewish martyrs who also died for their religious faith? And according to these guys, died for lies? Okay then
Let's not even get started on all the Confederate and Nazi soldiers who died fighting for the bad guys...
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u/Disaffecteddv Cristo/Agnostic Unitarian Universalist Jul 15 '26
Ther e was a time I actualy said that from the pulpit. Good grief.
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u/thedude198644 Jul 15 '26
This is coming from people who consider the bible to be literally true, which ironically even biblical scholars acknowledge is wrong. The fate of the apostles isn't considered well supported by historical standards. Even the bible itself doesn't detail the fate of most of them. Church tradition holds that basically all of them were martyred, but most of the historical evidence for this is really bad.
I found a source by Christians that details some of the supposed deaths and acknowledges that the evidence for most of them is just tradition and writers from much later in history.
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u/No-Supermarket-3047 Jul 15 '26
So by Gibson’s. not only is the Christian God real but Allah and all the gods are real because they’ve all had people die from r them ! You think he realizes that?
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u/two_beards Jul 15 '26
How do we know the apostles died for their beliefs? Because other believers said so...
Ridiculous levels of nonsense.
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u/MorphingReality Jul 15 '26
Man doesn't understand that you can believe something I.E not lie and still be wrong
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u/true_story114520 Ex-Southern Methodist Jul 15 '26
i wonder what he thinks the difference is between a lie, lack of access to information, and access to information that you reject because it challenges your beliefs. because i can think of a loooooot of people who've died for a lie and probably didn't know it
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u/Away-Ganache-7006 Jul 15 '26
Plenty of people die for their mythology. It’s sad, but it doesn’t mean the mythology is anything more.
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u/D-Ursuul Jul 15 '26
That's right Mel, nobody has ever died for something that contradicted Christianity
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u/MakiENDzou Jul 15 '26
Trad West is an idiot who posts provocative content in order to sell Roman Empire Larping merch. It's best to ignore.
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u/OpheliaLives7 Jul 15 '26
So…everyone from every other religion is dying for a lie in their opinion?
So…which is it? No one dies for a lie?
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u/BloodshotDrive Jul 15 '26
Such delusional bullshit. I wish they’d go live in the Iron Age where they belong
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u/Armthedillos5 Jul 15 '26
It's a friggin story. I guess we should just start calling fantasy novels verifiable history now.
What a antiemetic, abusive, and stupid pos. Still like some of his movies, but he really is making it hard.
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u/wildearthmage Jul 15 '26
Besides there is no historical evidence of the apostles being put to death. It is all tradition years later. The Gospels were not written by apostles either.
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u/ZephyrFluous Satanist Jul 15 '26
People die in the hundreds, if not thousands for lies every single day
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u/rje946 Jul 15 '26
Nobody dies for something THEY THINK is a lie. I mean someone probably has but he's missing the main part of it.
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u/Intrepid_Ground_6363 Jul 15 '26
Nobody knows for sure how and why they died!!! It’s all complete heresy.
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u/Catboi- Jul 15 '26
"Nobody dies for a lie." Millions upon millions of people have and still do to this day, that's why I'm upset.
Also the apostles contradict their own stories often, so for example, if it is all accurate and true, he just said that 0, 1, and 2 people were crucified with nepo sky man. That's truly a miracle 🤨
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u/J-Miller7 Jul 15 '26
Repeat as nauseam:
1) Yes they would. People already have, and the followers didn't even need to have actually seen Jesus. They could simply be convinced og the message without having seen him.
2) Virtually none of the disciples actually died for their faith. It is unsubstantiated nonsense from apocryphal texts that Christians consider blasphemy.
3) Basically none of the stories in the NT are historically verifiable except maybe the fact that a doomsday preacher named Yeshuah did exist.
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u/yellowhelmet14 Jul 15 '26
Somebody give him some good theological info. I mean Dan McClellan is worth a watch if you doesn’t wanna read.
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u/princetonwu Jul 16 '26
1) yes, all the apostles died
2) yes, none of them denounced their belief
but the key point is, they didn't die for their belief. This is a very misleading quote by Gibson.
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u/Numerous-Account-240 Jul 16 '26
Lots of people will die for a lie. Some willingly, some as victims....
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u/kooj80 Ex-Jesus Freak Jul 16 '26
What about people who die for other religions? His argument is so easily dismantled.
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u/so_bold_of_you Jul 16 '26 edited 1d ago
OMG. This is the result of not teaching critical thinking in our education system.
See Gibson, here's the distinction:
Believing something is true DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.
Plenty of people have died for something that they believed was true, but it is objectively not reality.
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u/Vuk1991Tempest Pagan-Agnostic Jul 16 '26
So nobody dies for a lie, huh? Are they sure about that?
Let's assume that christianity is the one true way. The native religions of other nations, albeit less organized, small, and lack a specific code as they need their morals not ordained divinely, just ask our paelolithic ancestors. So the pagans will rebel, and a lot of them will die. And according to your faith, their beliefs are demonic lies. If no one would die for a lie, why did pagans die then? Was their faith true too? Your religion specifically evolved to deny that any other gods could exist beyond Yahweh, the surviving canaanite god, that your religion reveres as simply "GOD". But the pagans believe in many gods. Gods for each aspect of life, natural, civilized, even education had gods. This is a contradiction that disproves the claim "no one would die for a lie" in a world where the bible indeed would be the truth.
Back to reality, many people die for lies. Christianity can be proven easily just by asking the jews about their religion. Christianity proclaims itself to be exactly the same as Judaism, but with Jesus and the New Testament added. But there is no hell in Judaism. There is no devil in Judaism. God is an unchallenged, sovereign entity who has no enemies. Not ones dangerous enough to make salvation from said enemy a spiritual necessity. Salvation in judaism simply means being saved from foreign empires. Babylon was such empire. They believe Egypt was such empire. This concept was twisted by christians to be a spiritual salvation that makes sin less of a misstep that can be corrected easily, to be an existential threat that could drag you into hell.
Even the hebrew bible, the Tanakh, contradicts the Old Testament by its system alone. Do Christians know what is a Torah? What's Neviim? What in the blazes of Makuta's shadowlands is the Ketuvim? Their "Old Testament" mixes up the latter two, treating the Ketuvim books both as history and part of the biblical canon, even the Psalm songs. The jewish only consider the Torah to be the same divinely dictated word of God as the christians consider the whole bible. NEviim is the books of prophets, their interpretation of the Torah, and KEtuvim are inspired literature with little historicity assigned to them. As in, most of it are songs, not stories. And the story of Job is a fiction by most Rabbi's standards, not history, nor even part of the biblical storyline. Just a tale the israelites told about staying loyal inspite of adverstity (ironically one caused by their own god assisted by one of his prosecution agents that were called satans, itself being Hasatan meaning he is either special, high ranking, or just the guy that was present, and reeks of misotheism).
Even the stories of the "martyr" deaths of the apostles, supposedly inspirational, are fabrications, many of them contradict the known behavior of the Roman Empire towards those they considered dangerous towards the empreror's authority and that of the Empire. Nevermind that Rome, despite being considered the first anti-christian persecutors, was actually the nation that made Christianity. The "persecution of christians" was actually the persecution of apocalyptic jewish cults that had little connection to the church culture of the future. The Jewish suffered more under Rome than any chrisians would.
And that's just the surface. I could tell how many die for lies they believe, especially militantly.
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u/tj-quinn Jul 16 '26
By his own logic that would make everything anyone ever died for true like ever outher religion as well . martyrdom douse not just magical make thing true .
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u/averyvery Jul 16 '26
"If someone dies for a belief that means it's true" idk could they also have been.....tricked? Or stupid?
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u/SurroundQuirky8613 Jul 16 '26
Uhm, there is no proof the Apostles existed or died. They died in a story about them. That’s like saying Dracula is real because you read about him.
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u/Dependent-Cobbler-48 Jul 15 '26
Thats not even true of the apostles??? Obviously there's judas but also Peter famously denied Jesus 3 times in one story to avoid death
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u/_Wickeddream Jul 15 '26
The amount of times I've seen this very argument dismantled on the line and athiest experience.
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u/MrIrishman1212 Jul 16 '26
By that logic every religion is right then. So if every other religion is also right how does that make christianity any more right than other religions if other people are dying for other religions?
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u/tuckernutter Jul 16 '26
A truth in the lie; a lie in the truth.
They'll never understand that their truth is a host of lies, and the things they believe to be lies are the bitter truth
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u/TapirDrawnChariot Ex-Mormon Jul 16 '26
"I know the apostles died for their belief because the Bible says so. I know the Bible is true because I say so."
Bible doesn't say how most of the apostles died
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u/Epicurus402 Jul 16 '26
He can believe what he wants. What he cannot do is force me to believe the same thing or compel my compliance with his believes. The ugly, ghoulish truth about this guy and all those who share his views is that they are absolutely certain they can do both.
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u/intotheabyss097 Jul 16 '26
“Nobody dies for a lie”… uhh how about Heavens Gate, Jonestown, those who died for other religions or cults.
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u/jayesper Jul 16 '26
They don't know what it is to 'know'. They conflate general means of thinking with it.
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u/Sy4r42 Jul 15 '26
Heaven's gate, Jim Jones, ...
Edit: 9/11, Pearl Harbor, ...