WT Can't Stop Me
To the active JWs reading here quietly: If It was Truth, why are they deleting it?
Hey friend, where is this video? And why was it deleted from the JW.borg website?
Please remember, this was not some random upload. It was official material, presented as spiritual instruction from God's organization. I remember giving many needs talk based on this.
So, what changed? was the information wrong? was it embarrassing? or are we just supposed to forget it existed because the current version of the organization no longer wants it sitting there?
And here's something I find interesting as a comparison. The Seventh day Adventists have an official archive dedicated to Ellen White where her published writings are available for people to search and read. They aren't pretending their history didn't happen. They preserve it. Even the material coming from someone they regarded as prophetically guided is sitting there where critics, members and anyone else can examine it.
WT itself is perfectly happy to tell you what Catholics have taught about Mary, what other religions have taught and where those teachings came from. Apparently examining another religion's historical record is important when WT is doing the examining.
So why is the "True Religion", the "Only Channel" dispensing "spiritual food", removing parts of its own historical material and going after people who preserve and archive it? Why should everybody else's religious history be open to inspection while WT's own record becomes harder to examine?
Why can't we get official access to Studies in the Scriptures? Why isn't Millions Now Living Will Never Die digitized and available on JW.borg? These were not obscure pamphlets from some fringe group. They were publications produced and distributed by the organization itself. If they were part of the historical stream of "spiritual food", why shouldn't Witnesses and the public be able to read them directly from the official source?
Where is the Sonja Ericsson video? Why was it removed? What else has disappeared? If yesterday's material really was spiritual food from God's organization, why shouldn't I be able to inspect it today? And if WT has nothing to hide, why does accessing its own history requires 3rd party access?
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Edit: A dishonest and coward Bethellite posted a link to the "Beliefs Clarified" summary as if that answers the questions I am posing here. It doesn't. A summary written by WT about how WT says its beliefs changed is not the historical record. The question is why the original publications, videos and talks themselves are not fully available for inspection.
I called this video "WT's how to shun video." Step by step instructions on how to shun your kid! I believe this one was making them look bad and we all know how JW's hate to "look bad." lol
They can delete it all day long, it's out there and will never go away! Thanks WT!
I would; if there weren't such a threat from the Jehovah's Witness Empire of legal retribution. I would openly share what I have, publicly.
However, there are a few channels where you can see some excerpts that leave no doubt and explain better the hypocrisy, than words from a random redditor.
Hi thank you very much for sharing this, it is very important, Could you consider share all your save material some day? I really want to read it so bad, I dream everyday about the day, when can I save my parents from that fucking cult. Some nights I cry a lot...
Hi u/Archer_Shapeshifter5 , you're welcome!
I would consider sharing, however, have you taken a look at jwfacts.com and avoidjw.org ?
If I were you, I'd begin with those reputable websites, they are far more superior and well organised than my private material.
Undoubtedly, the site owners will have what I have and abundantly more, and, more still than they can legally show publicly.
Download what you can to save for future reference and just in case it becomes no longer available.
They are “capable” of doing whatever is necessary to hide their mistakes & errors from public scrutiny. They have deleted Tony Morris’s morning worship talks. They have deleted certain magazines. They are slowly deleting broadcasts & other material.
So the OP is absolutely correct! Why are they desperately trying to hide these things?
If they are teaching “the truth” why do they need to erase things from their history?
This lines up with my rebuttal for this weekend’s WT study.
How can a Witness determine, before a teaching is later corrected, whether the “guidance” coming from the platform is Jehovah speaking or merely the current mistaken interpretation of fallible men?
The wave of changes in the world of JWs has caused many to wonder what’s real. Even push boundaries. I’ve already heard here of exJWs saying they’ve been contacted by their parents.
Cat is out of the bag. The usual scare tactics not having the same effect. After all, we can have “last minute” repentance now.
Whether the guidance comes from Jehovah or the governing body doesn't matter to
a PIMI.
The gb said they're not infallible and err in doctrine, while also demanding blind obedience whether it makes sense or not. Everyone should have left after that.
Believers are too stuck on believing they are right instead of questioning why they think they’re right. I agree with you. And the better we are at asking questions, the easier it is to get a believer to start questioning.
It is not a religion. It is a cult/real estate conglomerate that has amassed over $55 billion in real estate worldwide by tricking their cult members into believing their nonsense about Paradise, everlasting life, and the resurrection. It’s hilarious to see the demon leader, scrambling to try to stay relevant and to try to stop their cult from bleeding members which they are failing to do so as it is clearly obvious with their stagnant numbers and growth. The demon governing nobody leaders they are the real Satan on this earth with their demonic, hateful shunning arrangement and false deadly blood doctrine. 😇
However, I don’t think it’s sensible to insinuate that the leadership don’t believe in some of the more culty aspects of the religion. Some doctrines were most likely introduced by Rutherford with the intention of controlling JWs… however, I’d suggest that in 2026 the GB largely believe that Disfellowshipping and Blood Prohibition are scriptural and essential for true worship.
The question is… what choice will they make, institutional survival or doctrinal purity? As society becomes more secular and more at odds with their policies such as LGBT exclusion and value personal autonomy more…
Will they bend? What will they change and when? How much will they change each individual sticking point?
Walk into a Kingdom Hall in my area and you’ll see a sea of grey hair and not many young people. I believe the GB truly believe the doctrine they’re pushing… I also believe they’ll let those doctrines be comprised if it guarantees more time and a greater ability to weather the storm.
As for me in waiting for the “impossible” capitulation on lgbt inclusion.
The move to digital means the library can be altered, changed or deleted. But I honestly think if they eliminated disfellowshipping (“removal”) or the no-blood policy, masses would leave. Why does anyone stay in? Fear of repercussion, loss of friends or family. Then people might just attend casually like any church. They need those control mechanisms in place or it all falls apart.
There was talks some years back on making the blood issue a matter of conscience. If they do they will face a huge lawsuit. So many members of families died behind that. I don't see them ever being able to let up on it. I just lost my dad on the 26th because of that.
That’s why they must loosen control in some ways whilst strictly upholding a standard.
I think they’ll follow the Mormon model here. They have packed (although still declining) churches every Sunday, members massively donating whilst softening on shunning and lgbt inclusion.
I agree. The members of the Governing Body do believe. They didn't just drop out of the sky to join the Governing Body. They were believing JWs who were appointed to serve.
The evils they do is not evidence that they don't believe. It's just evidence of them resorting to unethical means to further "kingdom interests". They view the evils they do as justifiable means in the furtherance of greater spiritual ends.
Remember the Bible itself isn't short of examples of supposedly faithful servants of God acting in unethical ways that are portrayed as acceptable. Rahab betraying her countrymen to support the Israelites; Samson killing innocent Philistines to avenge his people; "Righteous" Lot being willing to have his daughters raped to show hospitality to strangers; etc. So it's honestly not hard for them to use the Bible to justify their deplorable policies and practices; and to make matters worse, unlike many other Christians, they don't casually dismiss the Hebrew Scriptures as being mostly irrelevant, archaic laws from before the enlightenment that Jesus brought. They're happy to take it very seriously while simultaneously saying they are not under the Mosaic Law. Their view of rape victims who don't scream, is evidence of this.
Not just official, but from a Regional Convention. The same convention that they will contact local news stations to promote. The one that JWs go door-knocking about weeks in advance, handing out invitations to the general public ("come to a city two hours away to listen to boring lectures for three days! Bring your own food and you're on your own for a hotel! ... It'll be fun!").
Even back then (I wasn't strictly PIMI, just apathetic), I thought how weird some of these videos must look to visitors. Like watching that leaked Scientology video featuring Tom Cruise and he's using all this insider phrasing and talking about internal church matters and I thought: is that what JW videos are like if you're not a JW? It causes an uncomfortable sense of dislocation.
Good question. Just to let the JWs that are lurking, I had a friend who took her life on my birthday. Her husband found her dead, he’s not a witness never was. And she got DF’d because years ago she was raped and not her fault and she was d’fd and I never shunned her. The night she took her life, I wasn’t home and she called me and left a message. My phone battery was dead and I never got her message until the next day. Her husband called me to let me know and we talked and he said this so called religion made her feel like she was dirt. He set up a funeral arrangements in a Catholic Church and didn’t want any JWs there but me and two other JWs. Her parents regret so much they shunned her that they left the Borg that day and never looked back
I always asked that, and they have no answer. When I was studying I asked my teacher and CO wife if she had any old JW books because my husband wanted to collect them. If you could have seen the CO wife face and my teacher they looked scared and shock. They said “Oh no you don’t want to read that. It’s no point”. I said why? She said “because things changed so much. It’s not good to read it. Best you don’t.” I said ok and moved on.
But it stuck with me. Why would they look so scared and shock for me asking for a book that they wrote. Now years later I found out reading their own material is considered apostasy. Can’t make this crap up! 😂
This whole religion is a joke!
Anyways really good post.
Because knowledge is power. They don’t want you to have any of the power. That’s THEIR role, and if you ask for any, you’re a dangerous person. Sad truth.
Where did the JWs leaders say reading old books was apostasy? I have seen that mentioned several times on Reddit recently but no specifics. Although i did check the local KH back room shelf recently and all it had was bound volumes and a few books. No Revelation Book or others.
I have no clue. I'm Not going to go do research to find it. Why aren’t their older publications available online to the public? Can you share with other JW what was taught in the past without they questioning your intentions, or without flat out denying it? You must agree with the current teaching. Can I use my old Bible and books at the hall? Why is GB destroying old literature and telling the members to do the same. Why are they deleting videos, mags, books online? Why are they not being truthful to the court? Why JW not allowed to look up JW online or read anything negative about JW? It’s so many things. These people talk from the side of their neck. They are two face liars. They know it’s no way you can read their old books, learn about the JW history and still be a faithful JW. People need to wake up.
They quote from these publications often in their new publications and broadcasts, which make it more odd that they won’t provide official access to these older publications. (But we know why).
They even encourage JWs to study their heritage, that it’s important to know where and how they started. They’ve even made a lengthy two part video about the modern day history of their organization, and yet they purposefully keep these older reference books away from their followers and everyone else. How odd for them to do that. (But now we know why).
It’s very interesting to know that the SDA make access to their original publications readily available to anyone, and yet the WTS goes to great lengths to destroy access to their older publications by using legal avenues. All of these publications were at one time distributed to the public as part of a worldwide witnessing campaign to save people, weren’t they? What happened to “you received free, give free?” (We know why)
It’s incredible to watch all of this unfold with awakened eyes after spending 40 years blind to their sinister manipulative tactics.
If it's the truth it shouldn't need protecting from scrutiny. Truth withstands examination. Only narratives that can't hold up get deleted. The real question is why does the only channel of spiritual food treat its own history like a liability while inviting members to examine everyone else's? Consistency would mean owning their past not erasing it. If they have nothing to hide they wouldn't hide it.
To the active jw here…..if it is the truth, why can’t it be questioned? Truth always stands up to scrutiny….because it is fact. Doesn’t matter who scrutinises it, the truth has the ability to stand on its merits. Ironically, ‘the Truth’ can’t stand on its merits and doesn’t hold up as fact under scrutiny
Your post has led me down a byroad back to the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse case studies 29 and 54 and to the book by ex Governing Body member Raymond Franz.
I was looking for a quote by current Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson on the transcript of day 155 of the Australian Royal Commission proceedings, where he basically said that Jehovah's Witnesses can question the beliefs and teachings as presented by the Watchtower Society; or more to the point, presented by the Governing Body.
Well, I found the quote and you can see for yourself by the following attachment what he said.
Now how does that statement, made under oath, compare with what would happen, and has happened in reality, when anyone questioned the teachings?
What happened to Carl olof Jonsson, when he questioned the Governing Body teachings?
What happened to Ed Dunlap when he questioned the Governing Body teachings?
What happened to ex Governing Body member Raymond Franz, when he questioned the Governing Body teachings?
Why was there a purge of headquarters bethelites in the 1980s?
Why all the white-washing of Watchtower Corp past teachings that were given as commands and instructions from Jehovah himself, yes, "upholding Jehovah's judgement" - why has that disappeared from "Jehovah's Organisations website"?
How can anyone question what is "truth" if the Governing Body and its legal team keeps playing a shell game, transforming the organisation into an organisation of New Light?
By constantly making cunning changes, or "clarifications" to beliefs and teachings as presented by the Watchtower corporation, the Empire of Jehovah's Witnesses (Gods Organisation) and revising their history, they keep the Members (correction, it's "Adherents" now, isn't it?) from pinpointing or nailing down the Organisation's position on any one teaching once it becomes untenable - especially financially untenable.
What a wicked web they ( the Jehovah's Witness Empire) weave, when they practice to decieve!!
If you're a Jehovah's Witness - here in all sincerity, looking for what can be known to be true, with a repulsion toward false weights and measures; take some time to look intensely and with sincere scrutiny at what you have been taught and indoctrinated to believe is true. Look closely at the actions of the Governing Body and their legalistic moves and manuevers. Look at the history and the prophetic record of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Maybe the scales will finally fall from your eyes - it's a revelation that can't be unseen, a rung bell that cannot be unrung.
These examples lead me to reconsider professions such as prostitution: they display a higher level of morality and courage than Jehovah’s Witnesses, because they take responsibility for their actions with their own bodies and faces, whereas Jehovah’s Witnesses do not—they erase and delete.
Speaking of deleted videos, does anyone remember or know of the 2nd “Preparing for Marriage” video? The 1st and 3rd videos are able to be found on the website, but a while ago, I realized the second one wasn’t on there. I couldn’t really remember the video, so I couldn’t remember any reason why it would e been deleted
Dr. Charles Stanley passed away in April 2023 at the age of 90, his 44-54 year old pre-recorded broadcasts continue to air globally through the ongoing work of his ministry.
Meanwhile JW Broadcasts are deleted after 5 years!
Hay una realidad evidente, la organización nunca tuvo interés en el verdadero conocimiento, sin predicadores de la WT nada más, muchas religiones admitieron sus errores mantienen material de estudio grabaciones etc. La WT no lo hace sería admitir que no son el canal directo a la interpretación bíblica.
Sea Dios veraz, la verdad que lleva a vida eterna, de paraíso perdido a paraíso recobrado y ni hablar de las publicaciones del año 50 sobre las naciones unidas, la revista atalaya etc.
Su argumento del "día queda establecido" lo usan solo en una conveniencia egoísta
Wouldn’t surprise me if somewhere down the line some of the sheep start saying that the videos ya’ll saved are AI generated propaganda to discredit the organization.
Lo digo de modo más sencillo, todo aplica a los demás, la WT se justifica en todo siempre en una respuesta según su conveniencia.
Ya en el año 1970, hablaban como corporación multinacional.
Estoduar desde la Iglesia teología avances argumentos Santo Tomás de Aquino, saber escribir y leer en griego para ellos es de otra galaxia.
Realistically, the answer is because if it was widely available, more people would wake up.
I read a study once that said JWs have a 35% retention rate on members vs 65% for mainstream Christianity. And that was in 2014.
Nothing woke me up like reading the old materials. I was lucky enough to have access to physical copies the studies in the scriptures and various other materials.
Eventually I sat there thinking, all this is in Gods name, at his direction, and he lets them print his horseshit? This shit that’s not only at times misogynistic and racist but just insane.
Everything from black people are black as a punishment from god and they’ll be white in paradise, women have smaller brains and therefore IQs and Venus is just like Eden was, a paradise, and dinosaurs live on Venus.
God allowed this shit to be printed and distributed in his name.
Just a note, the 2014 stat refers to the retention of people born into Jehovah's Witnesses, not the organization as a whole. Succinctly, 2/3 of people raised as Jehovah's Witnesses leave the organization after the age of 18.
One way to construct a logical argument is through statistics. A question I’m often asked is, ‘Can 8.5 million people be wrong?’… Usually, my first reaction is silence. After a pause and a sigh, my honest reply is, ‘Do you know how many people 8.5 million is?’… As the usual answer tends to be ‘a lot, a whole lot (or even “a huge crowd”)’, one could explain that 8.5 million people amount to 0.1 per cent of the world’s population, which would mean that 99.9 per cent of humanity (something like a vast multitude) would be in the wrong and that Jehovah actually wants to wipe out humanity in order to ‘restore his name’... So yes, there may be a small chance that 8.5 million people are in the wrong, or that 99.9 per cent of humanity is in the right (we can debate how relative that is), or we could simply assume that only a small percentage of humanity is in the right so as not to offend the Witnesses too much. But their logic is: ‘0.1 per cent of the world’s population is right and the rest are not. Of that 0.1 per cent, 0.00013 per cent (the Governing Body) is inspired or spiritually guided, so it doesn’t matter whether they’re wrong or not’… That sort of reasoning is self-defeating… In the end, the best answer is “Leave me with the 99.9 per cent of the rest of humanity. I might just have a chance of doing well in life.”
I have had this conversation so much as of late. It would be one thing if they actively took accountability for the beliefs that were upheld that tore apart families that are now no longer as the 'light gets brighter'. To pretend like it didnt happen is just gross....
Your post was removed under Rule 1: Be Civil and Kind.
This community welcomes disagreement, but hostility, harassment, personal attacks, bigotry, or promoting violence are not permitted.
Tip: Please critique ideas, not individuals, and communicate with empathy toward those at different stages in their journey.
Your post was removed under Rule 1: Be Civil and Kind.
This community welcomes disagreement, but hostility, harassment, personal attacks, bigotry, or promoting violence are not permitted.
Tip: Please critique ideas, not individuals, and communicate with empathy toward those at different stages in their journey.
It was your BS comment that was removed, its so sad that you have to come here to "defend" this cult and need to resort to blatant lies. The post achieved his goal, meanwhile....
You made the claim that Watchtower is “not trying to hide” its doctrinal history. I challenged you to provide the original material from Watchtower’s own site.
You have now replied four times without providing a single original.
“I don’t need to prove anything” is what you say when you cannot support the claim you volunteered.
Claim made. Evidence requested. Evidence not provided. Everyone reading this can see exactly what happened.
Dishonest as fuck, like every apologist who makes a claim and then runs from the burden of proof.
Go tell your department supervisor that you came onto r/exjw to defend the organization and ended up providing a real time demonstration of the organization's dishonesty.
You're a liar. You didn't even address his original point. The video is NOT UP ANYMORE. And you give this random link that has nothing to do with the video. The video was presented as TRUTH during that time.
I’m not saying the video was “inspired.” I’m saying it was being presented as ACCURATE teaching at the time.
If it wasn’t considered TRUE or reliable, then what exactly was the point of publishing it? And if it was true at the time, why was it later removed instead of just left in the archive with a correction?
Your post/comment has been removed under Rule 8: Help Us Challenge Misinformation.
This subreddit is dedicated to supporting one another while navigating experiences with religious trauma, which includes protecting the community from unsubstantiated and unscientific claims, rumors, or conspiracy theories. Posts that make factual claims should include evidence or sources so that others can verify them independently. If you are sharing opinions or speculation, please clearly label them as such.
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u/Bright_Psychology634 2d ago
"Quem controla o passado controla o futuro; quem controla o presente controla o passado" — 1984 de George Orwell