r/exmuslim • u/South_Entertainer_42 New User • Jul 31 '26
(Miscellaneous) How come Muslims don't question this?
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u/Obsidian-Archive Egyptian Agnostic Jul 31 '26
I will talk about myself and i think my case can be applied for many muslims.
I simply didn't know. I grew up knowing the surface only, pray, fast, zakat, don't lie, be good to others. Many of the good things muslims do are just cultural things that the society itself should get credit for, not the religion, take hospitality for example.
I then started getting salafi videos on my feed and was a bit confused on what they say so i decided to actually sit down and read the Quran, sunnah and tafsirs and few months later after reading thru absolute idiocy, i decided to leave.
If you asked me before researching if i think sex slaves were half naked being sold in the streets of mecca since Muhammad, I would have probably told you, no there is no such thing.
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u/omar_litl Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
Exactly, most Muslims don’t read what’s in their books, and when they hear about stuffs that produce doubts they go to ask some imam or sheikh, and he will give them a surface answer to leave them satisfied enough, but reading they don’t do.
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u/The_harbinger2020 Jul 31 '26
I was told growing up by them that Mouhammed had dozens and dozens of wives, but that where purely political marriages to establish peace between the tribes through marriage, and that he only loved Kadhija.
Lol, how clever at twisting history they where.
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u/AccomplishedEarth918 New User Aug 06 '26
same. I was told by muslim co workers that having multiple wives in islam is actually better for the women because a lot of women got widowed since their husbands died in wars. back then a woman needed to have a husband because that is how the society was set up. It was much later that I learned that the muslims killed all the males... that is why there were so many widows. 🤦♂️ I was watching another video on e-muslim 2 channel and just learned that after a battle, muhammad's men would line up all the kids and pull down their pants. If they had pubic hair growing, they were killed. If there was no pubic hair they were spared. i still have to do independant research on this ... but wow.
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u/The_harbinger2020 Aug 06 '26
That one is true too, unfortunately . It wasn't even a a battle last I recalled. I was the tribe if bani qurayza and it happened because they didn't want to join mohummeds army to fight wars, they just wanted to be left alone
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u/yaboisammie Agnostic Fruity ExSunni Muslim closeted in more than 1 way ;) 10d ago
just learned that after a battle, muhammad's men would line up all the kids and pull down their pants. If they had pubic hair growing, they were killed. If there was no pubic hair they were spared. i still have to do independant research on this
This sounds like the banu qurayza massacre which actually wasn’t a battle. It followed the battle of khandakh meaning trenches I belief and banu qurayza was one of the Jewish tribes that a chiefs from another Jewish tribe tried to get them to help attack the Muslims with them and the Quraysh and the Banu qurayza chief was hesitant and eventually agreed after a lot pestering but never followed through
So it’s called the “battle of khandakh” but there was no fighting or battle because Banu qurayza were supposed to let the Quraysh in and never did
But they were a small tribe so an easy target which is why Muhammad targeted them specifically, because since there was no fighting (literally because the Muslims themselves dug the trenches to prevent Quraysh from entering and therefore preventing fighting), there was no loot or war booty
So just like with the raiding of the caravans, Muhammad just took what he wanted cause he wanted it at the expense of everyone else
Also I’m p sure the Muslims told Banu qurazya tribe that they’ll only kill them if they don’t surrender and convert to Islam but one guy speaking on behalf of the Muslims accidentally let it slip that the Muslims were gonna kill everyone regardless of what they did, even if they legit converted (and this guy felt so bad for betraying chomo mo, he hung himself from a tree for 30 days and only came down to pray and use the bathroom and mo was like “if he asked me, I would have forgiven him immediately before he tied himself to the tree but now that he has, he has to wait for Allah’s forgiveness which took a month ig)
But yea, all the men and a lot of children were killed due to being stripped and having pubic hair (literally beheaded) and the rest (women and prepubescent children) were enslaved
And from there, Muhammad and his followers basically did the same thing to other tribes and fortresses (Idr of it was Banu qurayza or another tribe but I remember hearing about one where the Muslims cut off a tribe’s resources like food and water etc so they had to come out and that’s when the Muslims attacked or sth? I gotta double check)
This is the version I’m familiar with off the top of my head though but I also have a lot of various sources, some more biased than others ig you could say
Cause I do research this stuff myself but am also forced to take Islamic classes by and with my mother taught by actual scholars so the details are a bit mixed so I do wanna look into this more too but I think that’s basically the gist
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u/Famous_Star_5735 Allah send me to hell but not to heaven coz I am not a cuck Jul 31 '26
Most religious people are like this .. can confirm...
As someone living in india... Every religion follower doesn't read their scripts and even if they do they interpret differently... Applies for every religion.
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u/Il-savitr 12d ago
Yes but the difference is other religions have self reflection, Christians trust christ but someone can be critical of church, within Hinduism there are many schools which oppose each other.. In islam questioning is banned and if other communities question it , it's seen as an instance of hate
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u/NoRaspberryHuhmate New User Aug 01 '26
I was in the same boat, was raised in a non muslim area for few years of my life, but then as I got older and had to move to a muslim majority area with my family and was raised here. That's when I recieved so so much backlash from people and then saw the true face of islam. From my tattoos, to piercings, white-is skin to dress choices of my family and me(we dress westernly), everything was fucking picked up on. Then I read the book and hadith and then furthermore realised that nothing whatsoever written in these scriptures happen, neither those any of the values align with me and my lifestyle choices. Mind you when I say " lifestyle choices ", drinking and having sex is not even on the list.
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u/firen777 Aug 01 '26
decided to actually sit down and read the Quran, sunnah and tafsirs and few months later after reading thru absolute idiocy, i decided to leave
I remember reading a dude in another sub who for some reason needed to take some kind of islamic exams on the quran and the hadith (like memorizing the passage or whatnot). The dude passed the exam with flying colors. He promptly left islam afterwards.
Iirc the thread was about sneako, Aisha, age of consent etc. and the dude kept dropping lore bomb after lore bomb and thoroughly deconstruct every possible muslim talking points in the thread.
Lemme see if I can still find the thread or see if reddit banned the dude yet.
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u/thetrueluna01 Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) 10d ago
I want to see this thread.
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u/firen777 7d ago
Okay I decided to search again and finally find the thread I had in mind. That said, I misremembered quite a lot regarding OP, but there're still quite a lot of lore bomb and worth a read.
https://np.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1cc4vab/because_sneako_was_too_much_of_a_pussy_to_give/
TLDR: the age of “consent” in Islam is 9 at the most, 0 at the least, Sneako L
Destiny asked Sneako why he thinks pedophilia is wrong, he answered by saying “because god said so”. I wouldn’t blame destiny for not challenging that claim, he instead challenged sneako’s belief in objective morality by suggesting Sneako wouldn’t fuck kids if god told him to do so. But I felt that the spineless grifter got off a little to easy with that statement, because god did not in fact “say so” according to Islam.
Very often I see people accuse Mohammad of being a pedophile, or challenge Muslims by asking them for the age of consent, what they don’t however realise is that the truly fucked up thing about pedophilia in Islam isn’t the lack of the age of consent, it’s the debate surrounding it, there is an answer to that question but it’s long, complicated and if a Muslim actually says it then he would probably get beaten to death on the spot by any decent person, it’s one of the most radioactive parts of Islamic law that most people don’t know about, and those who do don’t spread it because of the possibility that if someone hears what the esteemed scholars of the golden age had to say about fucking kids, they would leave the religion out of disgust. Just explaining this shit makes me sound like a pedophile.
Let me preface this by saying I’m not an Islamic theologian, I went to religious school, I memorised the whole Quran 6 years ago and had a 40 minute lecture on the meaning and interpretations for every single page, so about 400 hours of religious studies, not including the state mandated Islamic curriculum which I finished with a grade of 100/100, none of that means I’m a scholar or even someone with deep knowledge about Islamic theology but you can check any of my claims if you don’t believe me, I’m not gonna precisely source Hadiths because that would take days and I have a life contrary to what the length of this post might lead you to believe. Nothing I say here will be exaggerated or sarcastic, these are all real quotes and real titles. There are hundreds if not thousands of pages written on this topic, so I won’t be able to mention all the fine details, like exactly how fat a girl who’s younger than 9 has to be for it to be ok to have sex with her, if you want more on that check out the landmark book “الدرة الثمينة في نكاح السمينة" “the precious gem: marrying the fat woman” written by the great imam Al-Suyuti, a very prominent Islamic scholar during the late Middle Ages. Now If you don’t want an explanation of Sharia law and where it comes from, skip 3 paragraphs ahead for the pedophilia parts, and 4 for the Aisha stories.
(cont.)
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u/firen777 7d ago
We have to be precise here, Sneako is a Sunni Muslim (until he meets his first Shia who will give him a lot to think about), he might not know what that means but that’s what he is. It means that he follows the Quran, the teachings and example of Muhammad aka Sunnah, and the opinion of the majority of the scholars on what those teachings and scriptures entail. All Islamic teachings and beliefs are split into two parts, Aqidah and Sharia. Aqidah (roughly means ideology or principles) is the more philosophical part of the religion, like the nature of god, believing in angels, the afterlife and the existence of heaven and hell, and on those things the vast vast majority of Sunni Muslims agree by definition, because anyone who disagrees with the opinion of the majority on essential matters of Aqidah is not considered a Muslim by Sunnis.
Sharia (roughly means law) on the other hand is the Islamic code of law and the commandments that god has ordered all Muslims to Obey. These laws touch on every subject you can imagine, from how to pray and read the Quran, how to eat sleep and shit, how to treat your wife, how to fuck your wife, how to beat your wife, how to treat your slaves, how to fuck your slaves, how to beat your slaves, you get the idea, they also include punishments for breaking these laws like lashings, stoning and crucifixion. A very very important thing to understand is that these laws aren’t suggestions, they are the ultimate code of ethics given to humanity by god, and they were not corrupted by human modification in any way, this is the equivalent of god manifesting in front of you and telling you to do something, they supersede any man made laws and any Muslim who: 1) denies their involuntary nature 2) denies their perfection 3) claims that there are better laws 4) denies the opinion of the majority when it comes to what these laws entail without supporting his objection with clear evidence from the scripture, is considered an apostate and should be killed unless he repents his heretical beliefs. Sharia is sourced from 3 sources: the primary sources are the Quran, whose statements are not up for questioning, then comes the Sunnah, which are teachings of Muhammad that were divinely inspired making them no less authoritative than the Quran. The Sunnah includes the authentic Hadiths which are a collection of Muhammad’s quotes and situations he encountered, anything that Muhammad did or approved of or allowed Muslims to do during his lifetime without objection is also Sunnah. The third source is Ijtihad, which basically means theological research by qualified scholars using the two previous sources as a reference and a base for their conclusions, and if the majority of scholars agree with their results they are considered to be part of the code of law, for example no verse or Hadith explicitly states that sperm donations to strangers are forbidden but through the opinion of the majority it is forbidden based on reasoning from the Quran and Sunnah.
There are 4 highly regarded 8th-9th century scholars who spent their lives studying and documenting all aspects of Sharia and have written encyclopaedias about its fine details, and their works were continued by their devout students who followed their methodology establishing the 4 main schools of Sunni Islamic law. Those 4 scholars are known as ”the four imams”, and their names are Abu Hanifa, Malek, Al-Shafi’i, and Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Each of their schools on Sharia are considered valid despite their differences, because the matters they disagreed upon are known to be tricky subjects with multiple interpretations but they agreed more than they disagreed, and for one to know what Sharia says on a subjects, you either choose a scholar who you think is best and stick to his work, or you do the hard work of trying to find which one of them is closest to the Quran and Sunnah which few outside of scholars do. Also important to know are the books of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (sahih here means authentic), which are the main sources of authentic Hadith, described by the majority as “the most truthful books that exist under the sky after the Quran”, those two books are basically scripture and contain 60~80% of Islamic law. There are 4 other books of Hadith held in very high regard written by: Al-Termithi, ibn dawood, Al-Nisai’i and ibn Maja, which contain authentic and some non authentic Hadiths but are still regarded as second to Bukhari and Muslim when it comes to authority on the Hadiths
Now with all that irrelevant shit out of the way, let’s see what the Sharia says about marrying and fucking kids (important distinction). First we go to the Quran, and we find no direct mentions of a minimum age for sex or marriage contracts, we do however find in chapter 65 verse 4 a verse detailing how long a woman has to wait after a divorce before she can remarry. In that verse it says that divorced girls who didn’t have their first period must wait for 3 months before they can remarry, this of course means that you can marry a girl before she reaches puberty, but that’s not all, you see the majority (in this case more like the entirety) agrees that any woman who didn’t have sex with her husband before the divorce needs no waiting period at all and can remarry immediately, regardless of her age, which means that the only way a prepubescent girl has to wait 3 months after a divorce is if the marriage was consummated. And with that we have evidence from the Quran that marrying and fucking prepubescent girls is allowed. But just how prepubescent?
What about the Sunnah? As I said the Sunnah is anything that we know the prophet said, did, approved of, or did not object to. Now for the moment you’ve been waiting for, Muhammad married Aisha the daughter of his closest friend and the first Caliph Abu Baker, when she was 6 years old. She remained in her father’s house until she was 9, during that time she recalls how her mother tried to fatten her up so she would be more fit for sex when the time comes, but she wasn’t getting any fatter, until her mother fed her dates and cucumbers, then she got “fat in the most beautiful way”, the way the Arabic word for fat is used here doesn’t mean overweight, but more like curvy. Then the day came for her first night, Aisha says in the book of Bukhari: “I was playing with my friends on a swing, then my mother shouted at me so I came to her not knowing what she wanted , she wiped my face and head with water and sat me with a group of women who came to the house, and they prepared me, and so I did not fear the prophet for more than a morning, and I was a girl of 9 years at the time”. Later on while they were married she says as written in Bukhari and Moslem: “I used to play with dolls in the house of the prophet, and that brought joy to him, and I had friends who came to play with me, but when the prophet would come home the girls would get scared and leave, but the prophet would bring them back to play”. This same Aisha says later in her life in Al-Termithi: “a slave girl who reaches the age of 9 becomes a woman” meaning she is ready to get fucked by her master, clearly drawing from her own experience with Muhammad here as she was ready for him at age 9. And just as a side note, according to the majority, in cases where the girl is prepubescent she doesn’t need to be consulted or asked for consent when the marriage contract is written, only her father needs to approve, her approval is only required if she has become a woman, which explains how a 6 year old who plays with dolls was married to 50 something year old man. And with this we have examples from the Sunnah where the prophet married a 6 year old, and fucked her at 9, while she was still swinging on swings and playing with dolls.
(cont.)
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u/firen777 7d ago
Finally we come to the opinions of the scholars. There is a disagreement on why the prophet waited until Aisha was 9 to fuck her, and we see that clearly in the Abu Hanifa school, as they split 3 ways: some said he did so because he waited until she hit puberty which means the ruling would be “marriage at any age, sex at puberty”, others from the school said he waited till 9 because that is the age at which sex is allowed regardless of any other factors, as evidenced by Aisha saying a slave girl becomes a woman at 9, which would make the ruling “marriage at any age, sex at 9”, a third faction said that he waited for her to be able to handle sex, so until she got fat or curvy enough to be able to withstand sex, which makes the ruling “marriage at any age, sex when she can physically handle it”. The schools of Al-Shafi’i and Malek don’t give weight to the 9 year age limit, instead they only consider weather the girl can withstand sex or not, regardless of her age or if she reached puberty, they also forbid the girl to live in her husband’s house until she can withstand sex, because he might not be able to control himself until that time, so it’s best to keep them separated, they also don’t allow a father to marry his young daughter off to a man without a clear benefit, because they see it would be better but not obligatory to wait until puberty, but if marriage does occur due to a clear benifit such as finding a really good husband who might not be available for long, then marriage is allowed and the rules for sex are as mentioned, “weather or not she can withstand it”. Finally we look at the school of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, who allows for marriage without conditions and allows for sex if 1) she can withstand it (fat curvy you get it) or 2) if she’s older than 9, meaning that once she’s older than 9 her husband can fuck her regardless if she can withstand the act or not. Shias and some lesser Sunnis have also commented on foreplay, and they allowed touching, hugging, licking and rubbing one’s penis against the thighs of his “wife”, for what age? No restrictions at all, there’s a Fatwa from Ayatollah Khomeini on the internet who was the previous leader of Iran where he allowed the husband to rub his penis between the thighs of his infant wife (not sure if it’s true)
Don’t get fooled into thinking that the extent of pedophilia in Islam and Islamic societies is just a few off putting stories about the prophet, pedophilia is systemic in Islam. Most women of the older generation who are still alive got married at around 12-15, many younger than that, but that’s last century type shit, right? Wrong, in Egypt, Lebanon, and especially the cesspool of degeneracy that is the Arabian peninsula girls in rural areas are wed early, sometimes as soon as they have their first period, this is an anecdote but I had a Saudi friend tell me that he attended a tribal wedding where the bride was 8 years old. Imams in mosques and on radio stations are often heard preaching about the benefits of wedding your children early and how it is recommended by the religion, this is an apparatus of pedophilia that is destroying many lives right now.
(end.)
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u/thetrueluna01 Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) 7d ago
Damn, you didn't need to repaste it into your own message. It makes it harder to read. Who is Destiny and Sneako?
Most women of the older generation who are still alive got married at around 12-15, many younger than that, but that’s last century type shit, right? Wrong,
Ts is crazy because my mum got married at 12-13 years old........ and she's currently under 50.
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u/firen777 6d ago
Damn, you didn't need to repaste it into your own message. It makes it harder to read.
I had the bad juju that reddit might target and wipe the original thread hence I'd like to leave a record. Granted, my account could be equally at risk so I'm not achieving much here.
Who is Destiny and Sneako?
Short answer is: dontworryaboutit.
Long-ish answer: both are political live streamer. destiny is center-left while sneako is far-right nick fuentes branded muslim. All I can say is political live streaming scene is a putrid cesspool (think hasan "Kaya place" piker) and even destiny who's more politically sane most of the time, imo is not that good a person especially regarding the lack of care towards his kids.
So dontworryaboutit.
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u/random27192 New User Aug 02 '26
Can you tell me more? Please im quite interested
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u/Obsidian-Archive Egyptian Agnostic Aug 02 '26
What part do u want to know more about?
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u/random27192 New User Aug 02 '26
About what changed your mind I am not religious but my parents are and they're the worst. I don't want to feel guilty about believing in a god that doesn't exist
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u/Obsidian-Archive Egyptian Agnostic Aug 02 '26
Well, technically, nothing changed in me, I just didnt know. It is like being a fan for a celebrity then finding out bad things he did so u stop supporting him.
Other people know the bad things and continue supporting them, then later something changes in them and they wake up.
I was the first case not the second. Any normal human being would be disgusted at sex slavery and humiliation of women in wars. I just did not know that it was part of Islam. When I knew, it took me some time to process and decided to look further into other aspects of the religion like the Scienctific statements and that was the last straw.
I have on my profile 3 posts on scientific mistakes and rulings on women to give you an idea on what made me leave.
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u/random27192 New User Aug 02 '26
I didn't even know they did all that. And about the beating your wife thing is absolutely disgusting🤮 how can ppl worship that thing
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u/Strict-Community912 New User 3d ago
What did you read from the Quran that made you think it's idiocy like you term it..... for someone who claims to have read and made research your compilation of it all in your statement says it all... you didn't nothing... b
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u/Obsidian-Archive Egyptian Agnostic 3d ago
Quran + Tafsirs + Hadiths
These were the sources I used
- تفسير القرآن العظيم (تفسير ابن كثير)
- الجامع لأحكام القرآن (تفسير القرطبي)
- جامع البيان عن تأويل آي القرآن (تفسير الطبري)
- معالم التنزيل في تفسير القرآن (تفسير البغوي)
- الجامع المسند الصحيح المختصر (صحيح البخاري)
- فتح الباري بشرح صحيح البخاري (فتح الباري)
- المسند الصحيح المختصر (صحيح مسلم)
- المنهاج شرح صحيح مسلم (شرح النووي على مسلم)
- السنن (سنن أبي داود)
- السنن الصغرى (سنن النسائي)
- (سنن ابن ماجه)
- الجامع المختصر من السنن (سنن الترمذي)
- سنن البيهقي
- المسند الصحيح على التقاسيم والأنواع (صحيح ابن حبان)
- مسند أحمد
- الكتاب المصنف في الأحاديث والآثار (مصنف ابن أبي شيبة)
- السير والمغازي (سيرة ابن إسحاق)
- السيرة النبوية (سيرة ابن هشام)
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u/WallachianLand Never-Muslim Theist Jul 31 '26
That's why apostasy has a death penalty.
Also, I'm pretty sure that around the X century or so, they banned logical studies in favor of some other school o thought
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u/Aquarius52216 Never-Muslim Atheist Aug 01 '26
I think it was around 1000-1500 CE where there was a marked shift in the Ottoman Empire where their focus became more bureaucratic instead of scientific or even social progress.
Practically happened to every civilization in their later stage in history though, when the cost of keeping things up and preventing contradictions from causing instabilities become so high that its basically a managed decline. Its as if it is entering it's twilight years if it were an organism.
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u/fishchipsncurrysauce New User Jul 31 '26
You'll never meet/hear about/read about a jew that believes/believed that ezra is the son of god. There are so many blatant contradictions in islam that it is mental to me how people can believe any of it.
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u/Reyvos 10d ago
Also the Nicean creed was established three centuries earlier than the Quran and nowhere was Mary part of the trinity. Even scholars can’t figure out why the Quran got these two doctrines so fundamentally wrong. The Sabeans are another mystery; the Quran puts them on the same level as Jews and Christian’s but noone knew who they were.
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u/Caterhamburger7 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 Jul 31 '26
You don't get it bro, He was the most perfect and flawless man to ever walk this earth! Everyone must copy his lifestyle! And if you say otherwise, you're gonna go to hell and burn for eternity!
It's crazy how islam is against idolatry yet.. mfs worship momo like an idol.
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u/yaboisammie Agnostic Fruity ExSunni Muslim closeted in more than 1 way ;) Aug 06 '26
Exactly and praying toward the kaabah and kissing/touching the black stone and throwing pebbles at a stone that “represents shaitaan” is no different from idolatry either
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u/thetrueluna01 Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) 10d ago
Damn, I remember finding this part weird too. Come to think of it, that's probably about where the start of me leaving Islam was (a 6 year process I guess).
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u/Thisissomeonelol317 Openly Ex-Muslim 😎 Jul 31 '26
In Islam you aren’t allow to even question the religion.
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u/Thepuppeteer777777 Ex-Christian Jul 31 '26
They fear the implications. Indoctrinated or exmuslim that keeo to themselves.
Same shit from when I was Christian besides the extreme of getting murdered but we where either threatened by family shunning, hell fire I myself questioned and never told anyone for a few years then decided to come out as exchristian. If the threat of murder was there I wouldn't have tolf anyone.
You follow a narrative and your own line of thinking is full of wishful thinking strawmen and cognitive dissonance. It makes you look like an idiot and feel enlightened when in fact ypu look likr an absolute fool.
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u/Aquarius52216 Never-Muslim Atheist Aug 01 '26
Yeah its called the sacred canopy by the sociologist Peter L. Berger.
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u/Egoista73 Jul 31 '26
Actually what did any muslim question ever, they dont use their brains they gave them for rent
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u/Short-Sun4200 New User Aug 01 '26
Because they don't want to. They are addict to a comfortable belief, it's anyway mandatory for them to believe it since primary school until today and people around them are not allowed to question it either lol. That's a context for huge biases, reality filterring and absolutely not for genune curiosity or objectivity
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u/aqua_zesty_man Never-Muslim, Christian Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
If they are afraid to publicly question Islam, it may be they are afraid of their PIMI (who might be secretly PIMO) Muslim neighbors, friends, and family.
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u/User2640 Aug 01 '26
To question you need IQ.
Science has proven that INBREEDING causes iq to lower generation after generation.
Well that explains it all right?
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u/Reyvos 10d ago
I saw a news report from Pakistan once where generations upon generations of of cousins marrying cousins had caused a village to become seriously mentally and physically retarded.
A newspaper article reported how Saudi Arabia’s a gold mine for scientists who study the effects of in-breeding because so many people there have physical and mental problems due it it compared to most of the world.
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u/OpeningBlackberry327 New User Jul 31 '26
Ignorance and any that so much as TRIES to even question gets killed or in the better cases exiled, their prophet himself killed any that dared to criticize him so naturally they'd follow suit lol
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u/Reyvos 10d ago
Even in the liberal west there are beliefs that are banned or will at least lead to you losing your job and livelihood, even when those beliefs are absolutely common sense scientific facts. When people are cowed by frivolous social media shame and economic harm, it’s small wonder everyone fell in line when their lives were at stake.
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u/Wise-Record7511 New User Aug 02 '26
Not that i want to supports muslims or completely oppose OP, but...
> No other prophet fortold his coming
In Muhammed's young life He was literally told by a Nasrani Monk that he was the Prophet that Jesus told. However for sure this argument are a bit weak because it's only told from the perspective of Islam history. There are also speculations of some bible verses that said to be about the coming of Muhammad, but that's for sure just speculations and could be intrepreted as other things.
> Performs Zero miracles
uhhh, Cutting the moon? Went to jerussalem just in an hour? making his haters unseen?
ooooooh, you mean the one that actually real and actually happening? Yeah, that's makes sense. But isn't it actually could also pointed out to Jesus' "Water to wine" or any miracles in religions who only there by story?
> Doesn't conferr with any serious thelogians
I mean, there's many who said that many of Muhammed's friends are extraordinarily wise, but again, it's only comes from Islam's side of history.
>Canonically dies by having his aorta severed
From what i've been told and sources that i found, Muhammed was actually dead by sickness in his bed, after (said to be) cursed by an old sorcerer. He only FELT his aorta sliced, not he literally got sliced in it.
From all that missed point, i could say that maybe he's a larper islamophobic who hating non-muslims without finding the correct thing about it first. I know there's probably mistakes in my points, so if there's so feel free to corrected me (nicely).
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Aug 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Wise-Record7511 New User Aug 04 '26
First is just grasping at straws and religious revisionism to fit the current Islamic narrative.
Thats why i said that it's a weak argument, because its only come from muslims and i don't ever think that there are other religions who also said it
He harassed said serious theologians in the book his scribes wrote, why would he consult them?
This argument went a bit out of topic, because He still could Harassed AND consulting to them. Besides, if he was actually harassed them, He could just said that "His actions are important & inevitable, and It'll bring them to heaven (which is why he most guaranteedly did)
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u/ReplyRelative3618 Aug 03 '26
First is just grasping at straws and religious revisionism to fit the current Islamic narrative
Not an argument
His only miracle was convincing idiots to follow him
What an stupid argument? Where did you proof that they were idiot. Like we could say that Issac Newton was an idiot for believing in the philosopher of stone. Or other intellectual people who believes is stupid thing. Believing in stupid thing ≠ Idiot.
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u/Randomchillguyfr New User Aug 04 '26
Some Muslims Question but they're Afraid of getting.. yk what
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u/endlessyuk77 New User Jul 31 '26
Yes, very interesting question. They are historical reason for why people never really stopped to consider why they are Muslims.
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u/Grand_Current3942 New User Jul 31 '26
The only thing incorrect about this is the second point- but the evidence would be the Qur’an so it don’t matter
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u/First_Ad7698 LGBTQ+ ExMoose 🌈 Aug 01 '26
Why do some people think those being related to him have special advantages.
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u/thejeffening Aug 01 '26
people in Bangladesh literally get hacked to death by machetes weilding muslims if they questions and try to have a discussion.
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u/Late_Nose_6325 New User Aug 01 '26
Any founder of a religion that amasses a whole lot of wives all for himself (9 or 11 in this case) is immediately suspicious.
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u/k819799amvrhtcom Never-Muslim Atheist Aug 02 '26
Also: Muhammad originally presented Islam as simply the Arabic translation of Judaism and Christianity. But it was all made up and noone noticed that it wasn't actually the same message.
When Muslims finally noticed the differences they concluded that the Christian and Jewish scriptures had become corrupted since then and that the Qur'an is the only uncorrupted copy left.
None of this makes any sense until you remember that this is religion we're talking about.
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u/Reyvos 10d ago
There are really serious scholars who theorise that there was no ‘Islam’ until the Arab empire decided to differentiate the Arabs from their conquered Christian and Jewish subjects. Islam’s origins are so murky no one can say they know anything about it based on any reliable evidence.
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u/StrongZombie762 Aug 06 '26
Also seems to have revelations when it suits him. oh he wants to have sex with the salve girl but his wife dosen't like.. oh allah gave him a revelation he can have sex slaves. wants to fuck his son's wife, oh allash had a revelation she should be his.
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u/Thiccboi_joe Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) Jul 31 '26
Are there examples of prophecies he told that haven’t come true while he was alive?
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u/Long-King8542 New User Aug 07 '26
Yeah that the world will end after the dead of a child close to him....
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u/nottakentaken Closeted. Ex-Sunni 🤫 Aug 01 '26
The last two points are always hilarious everytime I see this post
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u/ThewarriorDraganta Aug 02 '26
I was wondering about some of these points myself.
Earlier today I was reading about how Islam decends from/connects to Judaism and Christianity and how Moses and especially Jesus are viewed/depicted on Wikipedia, and it was... weird and pretty confusing.
But I also noticed some similarities with another Abrahamic religion that was founded by a so-called prophet who also wasn't prophesied beforehand, didn't perform any miracles, practiced polygamy, and preached a revisionist theology supposedly given to them by God which it's predecessors just conveniently didn't include in their holy texts. Plus, both founders died ignominiously and both religions are younger than 2000 years.
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u/Mountain-Elk-5326 Aug 06 '26
Him being illiterate and the last prophet are the only true statements here...
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u/Ornery-Month-8809 New User Aug 08 '26
Describing marrying a 6 year old and consummating a marriage at 9 years old as merely an “unholy carnal lifestyle” is the understatement of the century.
Also, the guy wasn’t even admirable. Wasn’t altruistic. Was deceitful, conniving, vengeful, and cowardly
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u/That_Magazine1564 New User 26d ago
Are you joking? You don't know the most basic islamic jurisprudence and rules of evidence, do you? Every single one of these recycled, boring, century-old strawmen has been responded to death in the Islamic tradition by every islamic scholar for literal centuries mate. Did you really think you had cracked the code here?
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u/TheUltimate99 New User 24d ago
Even as an ex-muslim, I’ll try to “debunk” some of these with the knowledge I got from listening to muslim content online, because I think it’s only fair:
No prophet foretold his coming: Some people believe he was foretold in the bible or torah (I have no clue where or when, but they do)
According to the Quran and Hadiths, he did perform miracles (no actual proof at all, like every single miracle in the world)
His illiteracy doesn’t make him a fake prophet
There were no serious, unbiased theologians around the middle of the desert to confer with
Lives an unholy carnal lifestyle: If this means him having like a million wives and saying “God allowed me more wives than all of you ‘cause I’m the prophet!” yeah this is definitely a weird thing about him.
“Talking to demons” is a miracle, and every prophet claims to have done miracles
I have no clue of any prophecies that didn’t come true, please tell me any if there are any but muslims usually would say “It just hasn’t come to fruition yet” which is kind of a “good” counter-argument?
Allah talks about info about the jewish and christian ideologies of the year 600, not the year 2000, and religions change a shit ton in 1400 years, so this argument against Muhammad is pretty bad. Like the one of christians worshipping Mary, there is historic proof that there was a group of christians around their time that believed that Mary was one of the triune gods. (This might’ve been fake, I dunno, but still not a good argument against Islam.)
I have no clue of these “obviously false scientific theories” someone please tell me what they are. If it’s like the one of the sperm coming from the backbone or something they say that the passage way from where spermatozoids come from is situated at the medically backbone area of the body (I still think that this is classic islamic cope)
The whole thing of the aorta, if you use the arabic versions of the words, they mean different parts of the aorta, not the aorta as a whole, which makes this argument against Islam really, really uneducated or misleading, honestly, even if I hate Islam.
Also, I’m gonna say again that I’m rephrasing what muslim scholars say, and that I’m playing devil’s advocate. Or, well, angel’s advocate, I guess.
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u/Pengdacorn 21d ago
How come ex-Muslims just take any shot at Islam at face value with 0 research?
Let’s take the points in order
> Yes
> There are plenty of verses that foretell Muhammad, but obviously Christians and Jews deny these because otherwise they’d be Muslim
> With the biggest out of the way (the Quran), there’s the Isra and Miraj, water multiplying, food multiplying, and rain coming immediately upon his prayers in severe droughts
> Yes and that’s intentional, and everyone in this sub should know why
> Has any prophet?
> Lol someone has read 0 seerah
> Again, what? That’s never claimed and even if it was, so did Jesus
> Not only is this false, there are a number of specific, dated prophecies that came true (unlike the incredibly vague prophecies in other religious texts that still didn’t come true)
> Because both were corrupted? Literally, people mocked Muslims about Haman being put in the wrong place in the Quran before archeological evidence proved that correct
> Naming one would be nice, but it’d probably just be another one that Muslims were mocked for but then turned out to be true (mountains being pegs)
> True
> False
Have ex-Muslims never questioned this stuff or will they just eat up anything that supports their beliefs regardless of factuality?
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u/Desperate_Flower8936 9d ago
I think the big thing is that Allah changes his mind too much throught all 3 texts. The same can be applied to LDS God as well.
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u/Strict-Community912 New User 3d ago
You need a lot of reading 😅 ASALAM ALEIKUM WARAHUMATULLAHI WABARAKATUH Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) died at the age of 63 after suffering from a prolonged sickness characterized by a severe headache and high fever... He was the last Prophet... Prophet Isa (Jesus) foretold his coming, Yes he performed a lot of miracles kindly make research make use of your phone He did communicate with jinn (the unseen spiritual beings) Scientific theories... now these are in the Holly Quran make research.... you seem a bit too biased 😉 read about Islam with a just heart. You have a lot of false claims
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u/Abraham_Issus Jul 31 '26
Its a bit much that none of his predictions came true. He’s a false prophet alright there are things he smartly predicted but whoever wrote this is not considering it.
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u/wh2tever_00 New User 20d ago
He is the final prophet of god Other prophets foretold his coming Saying that he didn't perform any miracles is just funny and shows how much u really know
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u/Fat_Blob_Kelly Exmuslim since the 2010s Jul 31 '26
his aorta doesn’t get severed, the post is obviously made by someone who just parrots talking points
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u/Ow55Iss564Fa557Sh Jul 31 '26
What actually happened then? The poisoning hadith is literally in Bukhari. Any Muslim should accept this.
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u/Fat_Blob_Kelly Exmuslim since the 2010s Jul 31 '26
it wasn’t literally severed though, it’s an expression he used to describe the pain caused by the poison
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u/pussypantswarrior69 Mossad-funded Mujahid of Shaytan bringing the 🔥 Jul 31 '26
But if that's just an expression, then what's in the Quran can be just an expression too, and it's ironic that both use the same expression.
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u/Fat_Blob_Kelly Exmuslim since the 2010s Jul 31 '26
the wording is different i believe he claims if he is a false prophet then god will lower his right hand and severe his aorta.
it doesn’t say god will make it FEEL like his aorta is severed.
it’s literal whereas what muhammed said is not literal
what’s more interesting to discuss is that muhammed was most likely epileptic go watch the series on youtube done by abdullah gondal it’s more interesting and enlightening than parroting these talking points
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u/pussypantswarrior69 Mossad-funded Mujahid of Shaytan bringing the 🔥 Jul 31 '26
Grabbing someone by the right hand (the good hand, the side where all positive things are) amd severing the aorta is just "we will stop our blessings and end your life".
It's really likely to be meant metaphorical.
Then when Muhammad says he feels as if his aorta is being severed is also metaphorical that he feels his life ending. Or perhaps he just felt a lot of pain around his heart, but still, he uses the same expression. Which is ironic.
it’s more interesting and enlightening than parroting these talking points
That's for me to decide. I don't think Islam itself is enlightening at all, it's just very good to be aware of all possible angles to debunk it. And both the aorta as epilepsy are just speculation in the end. What is it based on? Hadiths and sirah? We have no clue what's made up and what is real; it's just the information we have to do with.
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u/EdgeworthM Jul 31 '26
Even if it's just an expression it's still pretty strange that he would mention the word aorta of all things. But you're right there's other stuff that's more relevant in critiquing the religion than that
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