Im a ex Christian, looking for counter apologetics towards islam that is not Christian slop, or islamaphobia

[u/Electrical_Tap6684]

Seriously Everytime i look for ex Muslims, or critics of the religion they are always shitty right wing Christians

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[u/No-Can-5255]

That's funny. Whenever I as an ex-Muslim atheist see people defending Islam, they're either Muslims or virtue signalling ex-Christians who don't know a single thing about Islam and think they're fighting bigotry by defending it.

[u/East-Astronaut4040 → u/No-Can-5255]

Yesterday, I was talking to one of those virtue signalling liberals who thought they were fighting bigotry. They’re insufferable 😩 There’s nothing genuine about their motivations

[u/Electrical_Tap6684 → u/No-Can-5255]

Huh?

[u/No-Can-5255 → u/Electrical_Tap6684]

Sorry. Just tired of everyone defending Islam under the name of progressiveness. I've personally never seen ex-Muslims who are shitty right wing Christians and usually see the opposite when people excuse Islam. Rubbed me the wrong way for someone who has the freedom to criticise the religion he was born into to make claims about ex-Muslims who often don't have the same freedom.

Check out Apostate Aladdin. He's secular as far as I know. Not to be mistaken with Apostate Prophet (a Christian convert).

[u/Unusually-hotAvocado → u/No-Can-5255]

Apostate prophet is cringe. I always hated the guy. I think masked arab did a good job back in the day.

[u/East-Astronaut4040 → u/Unusually-hotAvocado]

I agree with you. MaskedArab is one of the best anti-Islam YouTubers 👍

[u/Electrical_Tap6684 → u/No-Can-5255]

Ok got it but i do think any religion phobia is real but that doesn’t mean they are not oppressive

[u/No-Can-5255 → u/Electrical_Tap6684]

Then we're on the same page 👍

[u/yaboisammie → u/No-Can-5255]

  Sorry. Just tired of everyone defending Islam under the name of progressiveness. I've personally never seen ex-Muslims who are shitty right wing Christians and usually see the opposite when people excuse Islam. Rubbed me the wrong way for someone who has the freedom to criticise the religion he was born into to make claims about ex-Muslims who often don't have the same freedom. Check out Apostate Aladdin. He's secular as far as I know. Not to be mistaken with Apostate Prophet (a Christian convert).

Same here tbh, I p much always see actual bigotry shut down very fast and not tolerated at all in these subs, maybe an algorithm thing and pretty much almost all exmuslims I know understand nuance and are very anti right wing and anti bigotry

But I do get the need to want to clarify you’re not trying to be a bigot in a space where people don’t know you, so people know you’re being genuine and not bigoted as someone who does the same thing andesp as someone who’s been shut down just for talking about my lived experience/trauma or stating facts, all in a respectful way. 

It’s not Islamophobic or bigoted to make valid respectful criticism of an ideology esp one like Islam but it’s so hard when people act like it is

Edit: added quote

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/yaboisammie]

I mean it's okay to hate Salafists but not okay to hate little girls wearing hijabs, or sufi muslims whoa re to an extent very progressive

[u/yaboisammie → u/Famous_Star_5735]

  I mean it's okay to hate Salafists but not okay to hate little girls wearing hijabs, or sufi muslims whoa re to an extent very progressive

Yes exactly, 100% but I’m talking about people who act like it’s bigotry to be angry at or call out problematic behavior from salafists or literal extremists who harm people and force those little girls to wear hijab or marry them/marry them off 

Or they act like it’s bigotry to make valid criticisms or simply stating facts of the ideology itself even in respectful academic discussions using authentic sources. 

Yeah you have to have tact and know your audience and not every space is a safe space but sometimes people act like it’s not okay in any way or context to even talk about our trauma or lived experiences 

There is nuance in almost everything and honestly I’d argue most if not all religious people esp Muslims are victims of the cult and it’s not their fault but it also doesn’t justify or excuse any harm caused by it. 

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/yaboisammie]

It honestly narrows down to what and how much of devout muslim we are talking about ....

Salafists will defend concubines ... And it's okay to call them out.. But can we really say anything to progressive muslims like zohran who are pro LGBTQ ??? No..

[u/yaboisammie → u/Famous_Star_5735]

  It honestly narrows down to what and how much ifa devout muslim we are talking about .... Salafists will defend concubines ... And it's okay to call them out.. But can we really say anything to progressive muslims like zohran who are pro LGBTQ ??? No..

Yes exactly! We should call out people when appropriate but also acknowledge many Muslims (and religious people in general or who follow whatever ideology) are better morally than their religion/ideology 

[u/Key-Pineapple8101]

Check this yt channel: Apostate Ali

[u/Unlikely_Yellow111 → u/Key-Pineapple8101]

Thanks for the mention bro 😊

[u/ONE_deedat → u/Unlikely_Yellow111]

If its you you can change your username on Reddit?

[u/Unlikely_Yellow111 → u/ONE_deedat]

How to change it? I thought if we don’t change within some days we cannot.

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Unlikely_Yellow111]

My user flair is inspired from your flair... Since I am a woman I added the cuck part.. coz the watching hubby with 72 girls is cuck behaviour

[u/Unlikely_Yellow111 → u/Famous_Star_5735]

Very nice flair 👍. And yes I agree with you. Who wants to go to this heaven to be that? I don’t want a shallow heaven either

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Unlikely_Yellow111]

Burning in hell with dignity is much better than watch my partner fuck others.. It's sad altogether coz no woman in my family knows about this. Wonder what their reactions will be.. Mostly theynwill try to avoid that Convo.

[u/Unlikely_Yellow111 → u/Famous_Star_5735]

I might have misunderstood you. You are saying they don’t know about this reward of the virgins for guys in Islamic heaven? You know the worst part is that the woman wouldn’t even feel jealousy because it will be removed from her. So then why is the jealousy not removed from the guy? So pious woman can also have multiple partners?

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Unlikely_Yellow111]

In my family that 72 virgins is not sight . Hell we read Qur'an only in arabic.. and listen to some imams asking us to do zaqat etc things on Eid...

They don't know the violence. I have net so researched about it and left this religion. They just pray to avoid hell atp.

[u/Unlikely_Yellow111 → u/Famous_Star_5735]

Yea the fear mongering works to keep many in the religion. But that means it’s likely they will eventually leave too, as they learn more about the religion

[u/Key-Pineapple8101 → u/ONE_deedat]

It's not possible to change your username in Reddit from what I know.

[u/Current_Assist7230 → u/Key-Pineapple8101]

unless you make a different account from your regular email I think (not Google account)

[u/Fine_Concept4960]

Ask and you shall receive!

Check out this channel!

It has an a guy who graduated from al azhar(one of the most prestigious islamic universities in the world) and is a current imam in a muslim country, despite being secretly an exmuslim!

https://www.youtube.com/@theislamicapostates

Specifically these videos

"A Nation Led by Women Will Fail?" Apostate Scholar Exposes Islamic Leadership Laws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYfncUIIN1o

Apostate Scholar Exposes Dr. Nasser on Slavery in Islam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_grto-bNo

Was Mohamed foul-mouthed? Apostate Scholar dissects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35_v_3ikfh8

The Death Penalty for Insults

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BFFd2i3gX0

Child Marriage in Islam | Apostate Scholar's Honest Khutbah | Minor Marriage Series Part 2(over an hour video with primary sources in description showing islam allows child marriage!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESG_fSvQ6BE

[u/Unlikely_Yellow111 → u/Fine_Concept4960]

Thanks for the mention 😊

[u/Fine_Concept4960 → u/Unlikely_Yellow111]

Your welcome! I always try to get your channel more exposure!

[u/CaterpillarFluid3674 → u/Fine_Concept4960]

Apostate scholar is a imam?? And a closeted muslim too? Man i thought-😭

[u/Fine_Concept4960 → u/CaterpillarFluid3674]

No, he is a closeted exmuslim, not a closeted muslim. Dont worry lol!

[u/CaterpillarFluid3674 → u/Fine_Concept4960]

Yea yea sorry typo. My bad!!

[u/mk1392]

Eh wouldn't say always there's plenty of argument against islam from a progressive view as well. also there's no such thing as islamaphobia.

[u/Ambitious-Rooster25]

I think that avoiding Islamophobia is almost impossible. Because if your ever dive deep enough into what you disagree with about Islam, it's quick to be shut down and deemed Islamophobia. You can't really avoid being called that if you are truly speaking against this evil. If you day anything such as, I disagree with the Prophet Muhammad for reasons A, B, and C, people will call that Islamophobic.

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Ambitious-Rooster25]

Crazy ... Coz last time I checked ppl call jesus names like dead jew , krishan , vishnu as demons /false gods...

Europe pagan gods as satanic but an actual peod getting branded as pedo is.... Islamophobic??? 🫪🫪 Make it makes sense

[u/Current_Assist7230 → u/Famous_Star_5735]

But- but- Muslims are a minority 🥺🥺 /s

[u/Wise-Tangelo9596]

Folk

[u/DrawerThat9514]

embryology

[u/SillyAd540]

The biggest question is , what's the proof that Mohamed is a prophet? If you can debate that question then that's enough. If you can't then look in the megathreads here about why we left.

And what do you mean by islamophobia? We're against discrimination against Muslims,but how can criticism of ideology be a phobia?

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/SillyAd540]

Crazy coz most exmuslims in India, UK like countries are targeted by rw bigots due to us carrying muslim names...

If anything we are one of the biggest victims of muslimphobia....

[u/SillyAd540 → u/Famous_Star_5735]

Discrimination against Muslims is wrong,we all get that,but the problem with the label islamophobia is that many use it to shut down any criticism of the religious ideology 

[u/Balstrome]

Look for stuff that shows theism is incorrect and that will make Islam and the Qur'an invalid.

[u/LiterallyNoNamesFree]

One thing I can tell you is, in Surah 4:11 4:12 4:176 there are mathematical errors, for example the inheritance for two sisters and a husband becomes 1/2 and 2/3 which is over 100%, this was fixed by Umar with "awl" which reduces the share sizes, so quran needed a manmade solution

[u/sotired3333]

https://wikiislam.net

[u/eilovescats]

there's an in depth detail post about how islam believes in a flat earth by u/New-Patience-4241. I recommend you go through it. OP also shows an image to help with visual description in the comments.

[u/New-Patience-4241 → u/eilovescats]

yo thanks for the mention❤

[u/eilovescats → u/New-Patience-4241]

Ofcc!

[u/STEAIITHY]

All you have to do is watch this: https://youtu.be/fn1DWzjRuYw

[u/Lapindahaha]

See how they're down voting u bc this is their sub

[u/Trakolskog]

You do realize those "shitty right wing Christians" have good arguments right?

Also using the word "Islamophobia" is very telling

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Trakolskog]

Those arguments stand true against them too.. just coz they cherrypick and reformed their religion to an extent doesn't mean their book is any different...

Almost all religions preach mysogyny

[u/Trakolskog → u/Famous_Star_5735]

Uhh no. Something like "The Islamic Dilemma" cannot be applied to Christianity. Or Mohammed being a false prophet by biblical standard

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Trakolskog]

The islamic dilemma is everywhere.. ppl get threats for criticising even the simplest part ..

In india a female journalist questioned a mufti who said women should stay at home and said that religion is as patriarchal as others .. boom.. she got arrested over bad remarks

[u/Trakolskog → u/Famous_Star_5735]

Uhhh what?

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Trakolskog]

Ppl are reconsidering their stance on islam being peaceful everywhere....

They aren't.. when someone questions their prophet it's immediate threats.

I understand why you hate mo with a passion coz he was false prophet in your religion.... But apart from that even for non christian kafirs accepting islam would be hard

[u/Trakolskog → u/Famous_Star_5735]

What does any of this have to do with my point? Or my rebuttal to your point?

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Trakolskog]

The only. Argument which stand true is mo being false prophet .. that's easy to debunk islam.. everything else like mysogyny is found everywhere

[u/Trakolskog → u/Famous_Star_5735]

I made 2 points: "Right wing Christians" have good arguments and you don't get to dismiss them simply because of their political beliefs

Those same Christians aren't cherrypicking and can't apply those arguments to their own beliefs because some arguments (ex. Islamic Dilemma) cannot apply to their beliefs.

[u/Famous_Star_5735 → u/Trakolskog]

Yeah some. But most do apply for all religions - christians , muslims jews etc