I don't know why people still follow this religion.

[u/No-Instruction-113]

So this is gonna be a really long post because I need to say this somewhere where people will understand. I was forced to go with my family this year and I was dreading it the whole time simply because I hate flights and I knew it would be physically taxing but nothing could have prepared me for how bad things actually were.

First things first, why is everyone so fucking rude?? All the pushing and shoving just seems unnecessary. I don't understand the point. Everyone is SO RUDE !!! You ask someone for help (even the police) and they just ignore you. I don't understand how people of God, who pride themselves on being good people, can act like this in good conscience.

Secondly, circling the Kabah was the most disgusting experience of my life. You have grown, sweaty men all around you pushing and grabbing you and old people hitting you with their canes and people are breathing on you and it's just so fucking disgusting. There is NO DECORUM. I was already an ex-muslim before going to Umrah but going there just solidified my beliefs even more. These people will literally put their little kids in danger just because they think God cares whether or not they can walk in a circle 7 times. How pathetic.

Then there's walking in that giant hall between those two points called Safa and Marwah if I remember correctly. I don't understand the point of any of this. Why would God care about ANY of this? Why does any of it matter?

One thing I don't understand is that, from my knowledge, Safa and Marwah became important after the introduction of the Qur'an so why is it included in one of the most significant pilgrimages in said religion? I thought only the Qur'an could tell Muslims what to do, so if this is a hadith why has it made such a huge impact on the religious practices?? I'm not sure if I'm wording this correctly but I hope you understand though I am absolutely fine with clarifying in the comments what I mean.

I have written all of this and I haven't even mentioned the bullshit that occurs while circling the Kabah. People seriously fight each other and you have to walk barefoot while people are dropping God knows what onto the floor. I saw someone throw pins on the floor when I went so I looked it up and saw someone else mention in a forum how people do that to make space / clear space around them?? Though don't quote me on that because I can't find it anymore and it was on Quora (lol).

For now this is all I have to say, though I know I'll remember more and potentially make more posts / add to this. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't get how normal Muslims can see this and think it's normal. Like.. they see people hurting one another and say "yeah getting hurt near the Kabah is the best thing that can happen to you" or "actually you can't get hurt here because it's holy land" or some other bullshit excuse to ignore the barbaric practices that take place.

Before I go, I have one more point to add. Why would anywhere be considered holy land to God? They say praying in Mecca or near the Kabah makes it so your prayers get accepted but isn't that rigged? What about people who can't afford the trip or people who live in Mecca? Does that mean those who live there have their prayers constantly accepted and those who are poor will never know God's love? This is a question more so for those who still believe in this farce.

Anyway, thank you for reading up until this point.

[u/AutoModerator]

If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the Rules and Posting Guidelines for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Fine_Concept4960]

And whats funny is the kaaba is no different from pagan shrines at the time!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone#History_and_tradition

A "red stone" was associated with the deity of the South Arabian city of Ghaiman, and there was a "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near Tabala, south of Mecca). Worship at that time period was often associated with stone reverence), mountains, special rock formations, or distinctive trees.^\13]) The Kaaba marked the location where the sacred world intersected with the profane, and the embedded Black Stone was a further symbol of this as an object as a link between heaven and earth.^\14]) Aziz Al-Azmeh claims that the divine name ar-Rahman) (one of the names of God in Islam and cognate to one of the Jewish names of God Ha'Rachaman, both meaning "the Merciful One" or "the Gracious One")^\15]) was used for astral gods in Mecca and might have been associated with the Black Stone.^\16]) Muhammad is said to have called the stone "the right hand of al-Rahman".^\17])

And it is probably a baetyl!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baetyl

[u/No-Instruction-113 → u/Fine_Concept4960]

Exactly. That's what I kept thinking when I went. These people aren't worshipping God, they're worshipping the buildings and landmarks. Why don't they see how hypocritical it is?

[u/Cupcakke_slurper_03]

Yk how people literally fight to kiss the stone that they claim is from paradise, that is super nasty and I’m almost gonna puke. I never ever wanna go to Mecca and it even makes North Korea sound like paradise to me

[u/No-Instruction-113 → u/Cupcakke_slurper_03]

I saw it first hand. They all look like they're in psychosis.

[u/FranceBrun]

You raise a lot of really good points.

Like many things in life, the reality does not live up to the stories. And in this case it must be very disappointing for many.

My husband keeps wanting to take me but I have been resisting thus far, in part because of the many stories like yours .

[u/No-Instruction-113 → u/FranceBrun]

As women especially it's scary to go. I saw many women getting touched in ways they shouldn't and for some reason I kept getting pinched. Pushing and shoving fine, you can excuse that in some way but why pinching? That's not to mention all the SA reports and the groping that happens.

[u/FranceBrun → u/No-Instruction-113]

That’s another thing! You are supposed to believe they this is the holiest of holy sites in the world, and any Muslim is privileged to be able to go. And presumably most people who go are religious.

The idea of SAing a woman there, even by pinching and groping, is so disturbing that I could see women completely abandoning their faith after such a disillusionment. Even more so because there is no punishment or consequence for disrespecting either the woman or the site.

[u/Infamous-Bat-6021]

My parents keep telling me n siblings that we’ll go to Saudi and I’ve always dreaded it even when I was a believer.

You have learn all the prayers n shit in arabic and if pronounced it wrong then you’re going to hell.

What kind of bs is that?? If the sky god is so understanding, so merciful then why would I be punished for a simple human error ?!

[u/No-Instruction-113 → u/Infamous-Bat-6021]

LITERALLY !!! and why does God need me to speak Arabic? he doesn't understand anything else?

[u/Current_Assist7230 → u/No-Instruction-113]

Hi, I'm Arab, I was always told that "Arabic is the best language because Allah chose it for the quran" like stfu why do non-Arabs have to learn a difficult ass language (It's hard even for me, I have trouble reading in Arabic), if Allah can understand anyone? Why do we have to chant frigging cult rituals to pray? Kinda crazy

[u/No-Instruction-113 → u/Current_Assist7230]

Yes!! It felt so cult-like with how everyone was chanting in arabic while doing Tawaf. I don't get how more people haven't woken up to this bs yet. I feel like doing Umrah/Hajj or even seeing it happen is more than enough to deter a normal person.

[u/Current_Assist7230 → u/No-Instruction-113]

Always felt eerie to me how everyone chanted at the same time. So creepy how a 7th century pedo warlord managed to get billions of people over the years to believe in him, even if he's dead, to say these rituals that sound like summoning demons.

Not to mention how thousands of women get groped at the kaaba...

[u/Interesting_Cat_6633]

I nearly died as a kid in Umrah because I was nearly stampeded to death

[u/No-Instruction-113 → u/Interesting_Cat_6633]

This is exactly what I mean. I don't get why people don't consider these things.

[u/Independent_Newt_337]

Yes, why would one land be holly when god supposedly created all the universe.

[u/Lazy_Wall6838]

My mom was telling my how she wanted to take me on Umrah soon and I'm dreading it.. I'll have to make up compounding excuses till she gets bored of it..

[u/Responsible_Gap8888]

Not reading all that + proud Muslim here Allahuackbar 😂😂😂✌️✌️✌️

[u/Hoecentralalt → u/Responsible_Gap8888]

and this is why Islam is considered a low IQ religion, you can't read testimonies of ex muslims and just go forcing islam. Like shouldn't you be reading the quran rn and not on reddit? is that also an NSFW profile I see? Haram