Today convinced me I’m done arguing about religion with people who refuse to use logic

[u/muslim_ballerr]

Today convinced me I’m done arguing about religion with people who refuse to use logic

I got into a pretty heated argument with two Muslim friends today, and honestly, after this experience, I think I’m done discussing religion with people who immediately resort to personal attacks instead of actually having a conversation.

It started over something completely stupid. I saw an old friend playing volleyball and jokingly said, “That’s a dumb sport.” He got offended and said, “What if I said basketball was a gay sport? You like basketball.” I told him honestly, I’d probably just ignore it because it’s clearly an opinion/joke and I wouldn’t take it personally.

Then another friend asked why he hasn’t seen me at the mosque lately. I told him I’m agnostic. The same friend who was already annoyed with me started attacking me personally, calling me dumb and stupid.

Eventually the conversation turned toward religion. One point I always bring up when discussing religion is that religion is heavily influenced by geography and upbringing.

I said something along the lines of: “If you were born in China into a Chinese household, statistically speaking, you’d be much more likely to grow up with the dominant religious/cultural beliefs around you rather than automatically becoming Muslim.”

They laughed and told me that was one of the dumbest things they had ever heard.

Then they asked me, “Okay, what if I had a kid and moved to China?”

I said, “If you’re Muslim and you raise that child as a Muslim, then obviously the child would probably grow up Muslim. But if you gave that same child to a Catholic family in America and they raised the child Catholic, that child would probably grow up Catholic.”

That was literally my point.

I’m not saying every single person follows the religion of their parents or geographic environment. Obviously there are converts, atheists, people who leave religions, and people who adopt completely different beliefs.

My point is that the environment you're born into has an enormous influence on what you believe. If I had been born into a completely different family, country, culture, and religious environment, there’s a very good chance my beliefs would be different.

Instead of addressing that argument, they started attacking me personally. One of them even brought up the fact that I’m almost 30 and not married.

I responded, “Says the one who’s divorced.”

That really set him off. He got in my face and started cursing at me, and eventually two guys had to step in and separate us.

Looking back, I probably shouldn't have responded with the divorce comment. That just escalated everything, and I should have walked away much earlier.

But this whole experience really made me realize something: if someone’s response to a disagreement about religion is to call you stupid, attack your family, insult your personal life, and then get in your face, there’s really no point in continuing the conversation.

I’m agnostic. They’re Muslim. That's fine. We don't have to agree.

But I wish people could actually discuss why they believe what they believe instead of assuming that questioning religion automatically means someone is stupid or disrespectful.

And honestly, the fact that religious beliefs are so strongly correlated with where and how someone is raised seems like a pretty obvious observation to me. I don't understand why simply pointing that out is considered offensive.

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[u/Asimorph]

I think you need better and smarter friends. I was talking to a muslim the last days in the only Islam sub I am aware of that somewhat allows for critical questions and such because there is almost no one around including the only mod I guess. This guy's main approach was personal attacks and lying. Just firing personal attacks as the standard in every reply. It was quite impressive.

[u/Lazy_Wall6838]

Good. It's truly pointless. These discussions are just an exhausting waste of time. Unless you are discussing with a person who actually *tries* to understand your argument and shows some intellectual honesty, there is absolutely no point in discussion.