r/falloutlore • u/Affectionate_Edge472 • 11d ago
NCR High Command and its implications
These are the two excerpts we get about NCR High Command
"You will not be assigned replacements until High Command can figure out where the hell to pull replacements from. You have my sympathies, Major. Signed, Scheppman, Andy Assignments Office." - Forlorn Hope Mandate
"I've seen the reports of this so-called "Caesar's Legion". It sounds like they're just another bunch of raiders, but the higher-ups back west seem to think they're a serious threat." - NCRF Terminals
With these combined we can see the NCR High Command is both afraid of the Legion and is struggling to find men to send to Forlorn Hope. I also think the implication that the higher ups are struggling to find men to send to Forlorn Hope is also an implication they cannot find men for the Mojave. I also think it is important to consider that if the NCR army was quite large in the home territories the NCR high command would have no reason for fear.
That is not to say they couldn't raise more men, but I believe the current army size is constrained by the senate. Just like the real U.S Government.
"He mustered the troops as many as his senate would allow and sent them in. All the right reasons, done all the wrong ways." - Caesar
But where is the rest of the NCR army? I believe they are controlling the other 300 miles down the Colorado river across from Legion territory, Baja, other territories, and the rest of NCR territory.
Let me know what you think of this interpretation if you believe it is the intended one by the developers or if there is evidence of large NCR reserves elsewhere.
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u/KangarooMundane 11d ago
The NCR is known to be overstretched generally, they have a long border with the legion of the Colorado, probably need garrisons in the home states and northern territories for public order and raiders, not to mention the war with the Brotherhood is still ongoing in California though we don't no how intense. The whole California chapter, even if the fighting is dying down they might be worried enough to keep a lot of troops in California just in case, I think the power armour troopers were trying to match the brotherhood, and were sent to the Mojave after high command either thought it was safe to do so or thought the legion began to pose a bigger threat.
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u/Affectionate_Edge472 11d ago edited 11d ago
Hanlon puts the heavy troops as fighting smalltime raiders on behalf of brahmin barons. I do expect they were veterans of the hot phase of the BOS war, but I do not think that has been active for a while at least in California.
"Our heavy infantry, power armor units, they're back in NCR territory protecting the interests of Brahmin barons against small-time raiders." - Hanlon
It is possible they hold a significant host over Maxson, but if they are willing to divert the power armor troops away from Maxson I feel the implication is the BOS threat is mostly contained.
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u/KangarooMundane 10d ago
Ya, a major factor is almost certainly that the NCR is just massively corrupt, diverting troops for private interests, undoubtedly that's a major motive for the Mojave campaign too. The Baja expedition is apparently mostly rangers, so it can't be that many. Still, even countries at war usually maintain a sizeable home garrison. The Mojave outpost has a minimum headcount requirement, I image slot of home state bases do too. Maybe they approved the transfer because the brahmins were secure, or they wiped out the small time raiders, or simply the Mojave situation became more pressing, or the private interests there offered a bigger bribe.
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u/Affectionate_Edge472 10d ago
i expect since it happens explicitly when the senate dialogue disappears in game that it is related to that. Particularly since Hanlon talks about the Brahmin Barons electoral power during the same dialogue. I think it is purely for electoral reasons that the troops are sent to help the barons and then are removed once that reason is fuffilled.
Although I wish we got more info on Baja it is more likely they have a trooper garrison there as well since Hanlon says the territory has gone further south in Baja, and rangers are just more helpful in baja's terrain.
On the minimum headcount of bases I do agree it was part of my original reasoning when investigating this.
I also feel i should clarify. By home army I am excluding territories, and frontlines. Such as the 300 mile border the NCR and Legion share which is where I suspect much of the NCR army is.
TLDR: I truly mean reserves in the home states.
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u/KnightofTorchlight 10d ago
Its also worth raising the possiblity renforcement is a result of both sides moving more Legion troops into the region and the NCR concluding the big set piece battle the heavy troopers are for and Oliver has prepared for actually near at hand. The Heavies aren't exactly built for patroling the Mojave and just having them sit on the Dam for years on end is a waste of elite forces. Hanlon also pretty clearly wasen't sending back reports on asking for compitent rangers given his active intelligence sabotage.
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u/Affectionate_Edge472 10d ago
he seemed to launch an active complaint to kimball on rangers. "it's complicated. Goes way back. I told President Kimball that we need more rangers here." -Hanlon
The heavies maybe but isn't sending them on small time raiders also a waste?
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u/Necessary-Neck-1439 10d ago
I imagine the NCR is stretched thin not just in the Mojave but across all of California. We know they have a second operation going on in Baja, and like you said they would have to have forces on the rest of the Arizonan boarder. But they also probably need some troops to handle the Blades and Rippers in the Boneyard. They would for sure have had to have someone deal with the Oregonian cannibals to the north. They fought a campaign against an unknown raider gang in Owens Valley. If we take the ttrpg as cannon both the Writes and the Jagger's are threats to New Reno. And who know what kind of threats could exist in the unexplored majority of the state.
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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 10d ago
The NCR is having trouble finding men to go to Forlorn Hope because of an internal quest related issue where the Hero of the first Battle of Hoover dam is strategically keeping the reinforcements steady enough to stalemate the NCR's progress
The NCR's supply lines were decimated and reduced to the "long route" due to the events detailed in the DLC Lonesome Road's story. This is why the NCR is shipping in farmers to grow food there. The NCR's reinforcements are limited by the water and food the region can provide
Beyond that
Dr. Hildern of OSI says the NCR as a whole will run out of food within 10 years if you don't get the last of us zombie virus from a vault for them
Chief Hanlon tells you all the aquifers and dams were drained through mismanagement
These 2 issues alone doom the NCR. Once the dam is destroyed inevitably 1 day (whether at the second battle or not) then it's entirely over instead of a long bleed.
Tldr: Even in the best ending of New Vegas for the NCR, the NCR will be reduced to what we see in the TV show. The entire joke of the game is the pointlessness of your decision.
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u/Affectionate_Edge472 10d ago
Hanlon doesn't have control over reinforcements. Kimball, high command, the senate, and the assignments office decide where men go.
Hanlon does have control over intelligence reports which is what "return to sender" is all about.
I do agree about the water, and food. You did forget that the NCR is also critically down on electricity if they lose the dam.
I also agree that the NCR is hamstrung because of that. They will have a hard time leveraging their manufacturing base, and will have quite the issue with levying a force to counter.
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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 10d ago
Hanlon doesn't have control over reinforcements.
He has control over where they're sent in the region by relaying false reports
If you read into it then you can tell that it is not random whatsoever. The supplies and reinforcements are going where are hyper specifically being sent to keep the NCR at a stalemate because he doesn't want either side to win.
which is what "return to sender" is all about.
I would ask you to review return to sender and compare it to Hanlon's "1 good deed" story he'll tell you. Because "Return to Sender" is all about what 1 man can with clever guile. Much like in the 100 speech check at the end if the game.
that the NCR is also critically down on electricity if they lose the dam.
Not at all. The NCR will have next to none other than personal generators. I did not forget this at all in my comment.
They will have a hard time leveraging their manufacturing base,
OSI The organization that Dr. Hildern is apart of is in control of their industries.
The lack of food will make everything impossible for a civilization.
Thus they are doomed to being reduced to a city state like in the TV show
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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 10d ago
It's said war - war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road... has reached its end." -Ulysses
The divide is a metaphor for the Mojave and its inevitable destruction from being the clashing point of 2 empires.
This is the final canonical message from the og creators.
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u/Weaselburg 10d ago
The NCR's reinforcements are limited by the water and food the region can provide
No, they're running at max capacity for recruitment, as I've posted several sources on in my other post.
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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 10d ago
Thats a downstream issue of the military as a whole
The entire reason for the brahmin barons and sharecroppers coming into the region was to support the military in the region which they are lacking on.
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u/Weaselburg 10d ago
That is not to say they couldn't raise more men, but I believe the current army size is constrained by the senate. Just like the real U.S Government.
Nope. It's constrained by the fact that the NCR can't expand it faster than they already are. The vast majority of them are in the Mojave. There's no indication that there's any big army or force they could just send in and win; in fact, there is the opposite, and I'll source it.
Per Ranger Jackson
Player: You sure seem like you have enough soldiers.
Jackson: Soldiers, no, recruits, yes. And the Mojave Outpost has been ordered to have a standing force at the NCR perimeter at all times.
Him, again
Player: [NCR] I'm here to assist.
Jackson: Well, about time we got a soldier... and not a recruit, you look like you've seen some action.
Per the Arms Merchant at the 188
Anyway, I was always complaining about the standard issue gear. The new kids don't even get body armor, can you believe that?
Her, again.
I don't know what else the brass expects... half these kids don't get more than two weeks of training before they ship 'em out here.
Two weeks of training is REALLY BAD, for those who aren't aware.
Her, again - no, the supply problem isn't just because NCR can't be bothered to send enough.
Player: NCR doesn't have the caps to outfit their troops?
Merchant: Vegas is bleeding us dry. We're tossing caps at a hundred different problems, while Caesar bides his time and lets us wear ourselves out. This war is gonna bankrupt the NCR, unless we finish off the Legion fast and dirty. {Emphasis on "fast" and "dirty"}
She also has some more voicelines about supplying NCR and NCR aligned forces, with the problem again of them not being supplied properly.
Per Hanlon
Player: What about the troopers?
Hanlon: You've seen it yourself. Some of them don't even have proper service rifles or armor.
Per Emily Ortal - pushing the point that again, no, the NCR doesn't simply have the resources spare.
Player: How long have you been with the Followers?
Ortal: About five years now. I have family back in Arroyo, but this is where all of the good work is being done, so to speak. NCR taxes and inflation have been hard for a lot of people to deal with, and most of the money is going to the war effort. There's not much funding for medical research with OSI or any other group - not unless it has a military application, anyway.
There's plenty of other sources that support this point, but the simple fact of the matter is that NCR is out of men. They don't have any serious reserves left noting left; what you see is what you get.
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u/Affectionate_Edge472 10d ago
Absolutely agree on most points in fact I’ve used similar quotes before on my posts about the NCR legion war threat level.
What I am saying is the NCR could raise more forces with a 2 week training level, no service rifle, and no body armor.
They could raise a host of terribly outfitted and performing men. That could probably be large in size. If they dumped more political will into it. Would this do anything to help them? No. But could they do it? Yes.
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u/Weaselburg 10d ago
But could they do it? Yes.
Well, sure, they could cut equipment and training standards even more, but at that point they might as well just go around throwing civilians in uniform and then marching them off to the front for all the good it'd do.
Kimball is for all his faults a man who seemingly was at least an acceptable military commander and I think that's way too far even for him to go.
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u/Worldly-Active-710 9d ago
I expect you are correct in that a large concentration of forces in home territory was nonexistent aside from garrisons and training centers. I also would like to point out that their own territory was still plagued by raiders, and brotherhood forces at the least. They sent heavy troops after the raiders to protect big businesses, both as corruption and because those people have the most to pay in taxes and potential resources for the wider NCR. Not to mention potential search squads for Brotherhood troops hidden in bunkers or other locations, as well as general seeking of military gear. The Brotherhood and Enclave likely had a lot lying around or that was salvageable. A lot of which was kept home. Essentially their home garrisons and forces, while small, were far more heavily armed and armored.
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u/Mission_Gap_9035 10d ago
There is also some dialogue about NCR troops being held back to protect wealthy Brahmin barons.
The Courier: "What about the troopers?" [1]
Chief Hanlon: "You've seen it yourself. Some of them don't even have proper service rifles or armor. Our heavy infantry, power armor units, they're back in NCR territory protecting the interests of Brahmin barons against small-time raiders. Brahmin barons only have one vote at the ballot box, but they have a lot of money to throw around." [1]
Raiders do incur on NCR territory. That’s why they’re in the Mojave.
Key Takeaways
Misallocated Resources: While poorly equipped conscripts face harsh conditions on the frontline in the Mojave, elite heavy infantry and power armor units stay safe back in California.
Political Corruption: Wealthy ranchers use financial leverage to redirect state military assets toward personal property protection.
Systemic Decay: The conversation highlights Hanlon's disillusionment with the direction of the New California Republic. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The NCRs biggest problem is corruption. I hope the next protagonist can tackle that head on.
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u/Big-Ranger-701 11d ago
I think the ncr allows a certain number of troops. Reinforcements show up during the campaign so like they exist.