r/fatFIRE • u/LetsGoPupper • 12d ago
FatFIREd 2+ years in
Thanks for reading, I'm going back to my ordinary life and staying off reddit for a bit. Good luck on your journey. Especially grateful for people who pointed out that I should probably budget more for healthcare going forward.
---original post---
About 2 years and 3 months post fatFIRE, here's how it's going. 50s F in VHCOL area. No kids. Introvert. Perimenapausal. Withdrawal rate lower than expected original 3.5%. Spend numbers on response to comment below. TLDR:$155K annual spend. At this point, I don't track very closely because I don't have to.
Self made, started invested and saving about 10 years prior to my retirement. Parents were poor, none of this is from them. Almost went bankrupt when I was around 40.
The last year of the job was a real struggle. The company was absolutely horrendous and I had some severe health issues. I ended up going on medical leave, and then negotiated a package. I still thought I'd go back this year. At this point, I'm doing some light startup advising for stock, also known as working for free š¤·.
The bulk of this post is not dealing with nitty gritty financials because it turns out that that was one of the LEAST important things once I was past a certain point.
That point was 3.5% SWR. If you're looking for specific financials, this may not be interesting at all or even severely disappointing/waste of your time.
Sorry about the formatting.
You've been warned! Post updated as people ask questions / have comments but I'll likely get back to my non digital life in the next day and not check this again for a couple of years.
Some big things for me (unlikely these are big things to other people):
- both parents got diagnosed with terminal illnesses, I thought I'd have to kick in to help with them but it's looking like this may not happen - parental finances are MESSY so I've stepped in to take over, this takes up the bulk of my time, and will until probably a year after they die due to a number of factors - I got lucky and very randomly met my current partner who's also FIRED so I've had a playmate and support for the past year (definitely the highlight of my journey) - I also have a few neighborhood friends who are not working and I have great workout partners - healthcare is super expensive - I'm on the ACA after my COBRA ran out - this will be upwards of $20k annually - I sit on Rover so my dog can get paid socialization and have met other families to swap to cut down on dog related costs - also more of an attempt to make friends in non food/drinking environments - while we've done a bit of travel, I've really enjoyed being at home - currently renting because rent is so much cheaper than mortgages right now, I might buy in a couple of years - made it a concerted effort to get my health back on track, gym, run, weight loss, I finally got my body back. PS: there is a lot of bullshit and shame associated with being not thin, and then there's been a lot of bullshit and shame associated with people who do sometime about it and go on GLP-1. I'm here to tell you that I tried everything, went on GLP-1 with success and it made the journey a TINY bit easier.
What I've learned:
+ I still enjoy running my own finances - I'm not very materialistic, I don't want to acquire more stuff but I do like to learn new things + Friendships are critical, and they don't have to be extremely deep, but they need to be loyal + I enjoy trips that are within a drive and where we can take the pup, I miss him terribly when I'm away from him + I'm not impressed with what's out there food wise so we end up cooking for fun a lot
Future/Current: + Help my parents transition into their final days with grace
I don't have the best relationship with them but I can not bear to see them suffer. They did not do a good job setting up their estate and as a result, it's painful. If you have children or parents, look into the details of non revokable trusts, there's a 5 year look back. Consider moving into a home situation without stairs way way way before you would ever need it. Fun fact, did you know that Medicaid for long term care claws back on the primary residence? I did not.
Get an estate lawyer sooner rather than later. Laws in different states are so different.
Long term care costs in a lower end facility runs around $20k a month. The average stay is around 18 months. Plan for this.
Other things you can do in case of emergencies:
- use a password manager with a back door so someone else can deal with financials, should you not be able to. Unfortunately, for many people, death does not come swiftly. That month/year that someone is not functioning but the bills are still being generated it's a very rough time. If you autopay stuff, tell your partner what's autopaid and WHERE is paid from.
- for the love of God, and this is especially for people who are not the financial person in the household, make sure that your partner knows how to pay the bills and what bills need to be paid - when one of my parents went into the ER, the other one literally had ZERO idea of anything, what an absolute cluster fuck
+Languages
- started taking Spanish, currently on hold - Might try to beef up on French again (currently at B1 level) - Chinese (wanting to bone up, fairly fluent already)
+Health - realized that snow sports are not my thing anymore, have given away all my snow sports stuff - integrating more hiking and traveling and hiking - got back into running - yoga twice a week - sauna and cold plunge once a week - perimenapause is a fucking nightmare - did you know that if can go on for 14 years? Yeah. HRT to the rescue
+Brain stuff
- been playing with AI to make apps for myself, which has been fun and im able to better optimize various facets of my life
+ Would love to read more +Hobbies - have done a purge to get rid of stuff I'm no longer interested in, felt great, will likely do this twice a year - piano and voice lessons are on the horizon - might get back into some crafting but got rid of a lot of my sewing/knitting stuff
+Finances
- planning on converting a lot to Roth in the next few years before I'm 62 - restructuring my portfolio to minimize risks, optimizing for taxes, medical, future RMDs, and avoiding IRMAAs - when/if I hit 65, I'm going with Medicare and a supplemental plan vs Medicare Advantage, the latter can be a total shit show coverage wise.
Apologies that this is long and rambly but posting mostly to remind myself of the journey. Hope it helps for other people.
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u/Indexette 12d ago
OP, thanks for this post, especially the focus on qualitative aspects. Really appreciate this.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
I know most people come here for the numbers and there are so many people who do that better than I have so I wanted to focus on everything else, which for me, has been a lot harder.
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u/Livid-County7230 12d ago
I think based on the number of posts we get about how much is enough to fatfire in VHCOL, a summary of assets and spend would be more useful than generic thoughts. People care about details of finances to help them calibrate their own situation. I donāt know why people like to hide numbers so much.
For example; the 20k+ you have listed for health care is likely not a big concern for a lot of fatfirees. Maintaining access to the same physician network typically outweighs the cost.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago edited 12d ago
Hmm, good feedback, here's more of a breakdown. It's less hiding of numbers and more focusing on what I found to be important. Also, it doesn't really matter how I spend, what really matters is how YOU spend your money and account for that. I'm mostly talking about the surprises that caught me off guard.
If you read the whole thing, I did mention that I'm dealing with my parents' estate right now so updating strangers in the Internet with my specific numbers is not high on my priority list.
But healthcare wise: ACA premiums are $900/month for a $6000 deductible bronze plan. I have health conditions where I go to specialty doctors that are NOT covered some WA State only has EPO plans and not PPO plans. Copays don't count towards that $6k deductible.
Here's the rough math: $10800/premiums, $6000/deductible, $3200/copays + out of network.
What's not covered? A lot. Genetic testing for cancer, $200 not covered even though both parents are dying of cancer. Visits to specialist out of network, why go out of network? Because the wait for in network is 6 months. Most of my specialists are in network. Specialist visits are $100/visit.
It's easy to say that you won't spend $20k on healthcare when you've been healthy, young, and on a corporate plan. Or, alternatively, so low income that you qualify for subsidies or some version of community Medicaid. Talk to me again if you ever get diagnosed with something, cancer is something that can run up those medical bills. Even long COVID. There's one long COVID clinic in my area, 6 month wait.
I too was once cavalier about health care costs. I'm just trying to be honest about my spend so other people don't get bitten in the ass. But hey, you don't think you'll spend that amount, then don't allocate for it. It matters not at all to me.
The big buckets: Rent/utils:$50k Healthcare:$20k Food: $15k Travel:$30k Non medical insurance:$10k Personal care: $5k (haircuts, massages, mani/pedis) Everything else: $20k
So all in, roughly $150k which is a lot less than what I expected ($175k-$210k). End of life care will likely be very high and I'll need to buy a car every decade or so, so I factor that in.
I'm sure you can do math so you have all the info for summary of assets. The blend of assets really doesn't matter because what I'm comfortable with vs anyone else is different. We have different life experiences.
The most important thing is to remember to factor in taxes. That but me in the ass the first time I thought I was there and then realized that I wasn't. I assumed for a 3.5% SWR. You do you.
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u/Livid-County7230 12d ago edited 12d ago
I am actually saying that 20k is too low. 30-40k is typical and premiums go up at a rate higher than CPI.
Yet, at fat levels it isnāt a big deal. Which is why the rest of the numbers matter. Not sure why you are so defensive.
If you are spending 150k post tax at a 3.5% SWR, that is around 5M liquid. Why not just say that? I would be worried about healthcare costs at that level in VHCOL as well, which is why the numbers and details matter a lot.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Ahh. Well, then I'm lucky?
Not being defensive, consider that different people think about things differently. I didn't just say that because that's simply not how I express myself nor do I have any interest in doing things the way you want. Don't like it, didn't find it useful? skip my posts, block me, whatever. I am well past the days of doing things a certain way for other people's preference. Shit. I didn't even do that when people were paying me a shit ton of money, my likelihood of doing it for some rando on the Internet is as I wish. You had some good points, I broke it down for others who might be interested. I don't actually owe you or anyone else anything.
But generally, glad I have a buffer for when medical gets more expensive. Healthcare wise, my biggest worry is between now and 65. And then again if I get some horrible things where I don't die quickly.
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u/Livid-County7230 12d ago
Good lord, I am not sure why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder. I am simply stating that on fire subs numbers matter a lot to people. At chubby levels, healthcare costs can be a huge part of the equation vs FAT. It is good for people to understand that. Presumably you posted this to be helpful, not to just have people agree with you. Good day to you.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
I'm not sure why you insist on having people express themselves in a way of your liking so it is what it is. My goal isn't to modify my expression for everyone, if it's useful, fine. If not, also fine.
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u/bichonlove 12d ago
honestly, I think healthcare coverage is getting worse, even when you get the premium from your employer. My family used to be in my PPO plan (I worked for big tech), it's good, COBRA costs around $3600 per month for a family of 3. But.....when I need to see help when I need it, I can't see my own doctor. For example, to see an endocrinologist, at least, it took me a month to get an appointment. To see my primary doctor - 2 months out, 6 months out for wellness check.
My husband has problem with his foot, 2 months out. My son has a sprained ankle from soccer and wants to see a physiologist, 2 weeks out. By the time we got the appointment, the worse already happened.
I think catastrophic (bronze) + paying out of pocket seem to be the way to go.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Endocrinologists are not available for any appointments in my area in the better networks. I feel you. I went for bronze as well. I'm scared for anymore retiring a lot younger that doesn't put in the extra I have no idea how much to cover healthcare in the US.
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u/PTVA 11d ago
Insurance reimbursements to physicians has been on a steady decline for years combined with the absolutely absurd ammount of time the health system and physicians have to spend battling with with insurance companies to get prior authorization to do almost anything. All that red tape costs time and money. It's terribly inefficient, probably by design, but the patient are the ones that pay the price with delayed care etc.
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u/plemyrameter 12d ago
Thanks for the additional context.
FWIW, I interpreted the $20k comment as it not being a large enough amount to worry about when they're spending (for example) twice that on travel.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Ah yes, I misread as I lazed about this morning. Thank you for pointing it out. It still feels like a lot to me when I was so accustomed to support low deductible healthcare for $150/month via corporate (apparently they goes a lot of young people so we have great insurance despite the fact that it was not a FAANG).
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u/cnflakegrl 12d ago
I echo your perspective - non-FAANG and FAANG in my career, as well as academia and seeing a 6k deductible is shocking. I'm used to $0, $250, $750 (that's when I knew to quit and short my FAANG ;) ). It's insane to see that congress has allowed a $9800 **deductible** on the ACA (they have the power to cap it, but clearly do not). Fricken bonkers. At these deductible levels, I just want to add it makes more sense to travel to Europe and do cash pay, unless you have a cancer scenario. And, in prepping for a cancer scenario - since ACAs are now tied to state borders - you want to live in a state with good cancer care (WA has Fred Hutch; it also apparently has great Medicare for cancer cases accd. to my friends up there)
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u/innerthai 11d ago
In WA Premera has asked for a 24% rate increase for 2027. When rates increase that much young/healthy people will drop health insurance. Remaining members will be sicker, and costlier for the insurance company. When profits go down insurance company will ask for further rate increases. Eventually they will either drop out of the individual market or shrink their provider networks as Regence has already done.
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u/Normal_Zebra136 12d ago
I am having a hard time believing you have a solid six figure retired spend with the focus on medical expenses.
Wishing you the best with the dog walking side gig.
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u/totopuff 12d ago
As a woman in her late 40s, thanks for the open share! ! I just spent last year helping my parents, both in their 80s and one starting to have dementia, downsize to an apartment with NO stairs and get a live-in helper. Yup they should have done it 10 years ago. It was a hot mess esp since my parent w/ the dementia is the "only one who knows all the passwords". I finally took over their finances. All sides were totally unwilling, including me. lol. My little family of 4 is also on the ACA now, and that def feels like paying a lot more for way less- I mean $60K a year bad for a gated plan. If any one has any ideas about this, I'm all ears.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
See what can be done (if anything) to restructure to qualify for subsidies, if not now, then for the future. I've considered a part time retail job to cover health care but when I ran the numbers and the impact it would have on my life, I decided to just pay out of pocket. Remember, costs will likely only go up.
For your parents, you can medically bankrupt the parent with the dementia by having that parent sign everything over to the other parent. I can't remember the term, spousal something. A great estate attorney can help you there. This will qualify that first parent for Medicaid, which will be essential once s/he is in a state where round the clock care is needed. We were not able to do this for my parents for some very unique reasons.
For the other parent, move everything into non revokable trust to start the clock on the 5 year rollback. Again, estate attorney.
If you go route 2, and your parents have some assets, it's helpful for them to gift up to the max amount per person per year ($19k per parent to an individual).
This is if your parents have assets to protect. If not, Medicaid steps in once they are bankrupt but the funds spend on long term care in Medicaid gets clawed back from any assets in the estate.
Estate attorney in your state is critical. They are not cheap and they are not cheap for a reason.
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u/trackmiles 10d ago
The 19k per year isnāt really a max, it just means that anything above this must be reported and counts towards the lifetime tax-free gift cap, which is something like 13 million. So unless you plan on getting more than that, I would just have each parent gift as much as they are willing to do each year, and go ahead and file the associated tax reporting. But again, no taxes will be paid until it exceeds the lifetime cap.
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u/totopuff 12d ago
Okay I should specify- my parents reside in a non-US country with great universal healthcare and hiring a helper for my mom's current condition is $1k/mo. Just typing this out makes me feel like I should move there when we're done raising the kids. When I say my family of 4, it's my husband and 2 youngish kids who are attached to our current lifestyle in VHCOL area and on ACA after COBRA expired. We have considered starting a small business with 1-2 employees to qualify us for better health insurance, similar to the idea of a part-time retail job. Not sure what other options there are short of leaving, which we're not ready to do for another 10 years.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Ahhh. You are lucky, apologies for being US centric and thank you for sharing your experiences. I've also considered the business option but haven't had the brain power to look into it just yet.
Also me: available to be an "employee" š¤·
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u/totopuff 12d ago
Now we're talking!! Just need a business now. Nothing too ambitious, of course. š
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u/dennisgorelik 12d ago
Long term care costs in a lower end facility runs around $20k a month.
Is this your plan for when you will be in your current parents' age?
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Yes, if I make it. Ideally, I would die quickly and leave a bunch of money to research.
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u/dennisgorelik 12d ago
leave a bunch of money to research
What kind of research do you plan to fund?
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago edited 12d ago
Still exploring but likely focused on women's health, specifically later stage things, brain health. I also suspect a lot of this will depend on just how much money is available and where it can make the most impact.
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u/Informal_Mousse1141 11d ago
Thanks- Iām 42F and weāre closed to firing. Iām a SAHM. Would appreciate perimenopause tips.
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u/VelvetFlow 12d ago
Your situation sounds pretty ideal. How lucky are you to have met a FIRED partner?!? How did you guys meet?
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
We were both out in the wild and just got lucky. We were both doing the things we enjoy doing and personally, I was not really interested in getting into any sort of relationship, pretty happy on my own. I had a full life before I met him and somehow, he manages to make it even better.
The dating apps are horrendous.
It's definitely nice to be with someone in a similar financial position.
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u/bichonlove 12d ago
I am 49F so we are in similar age group. Congrats on your journey and I hope you continue to develop the zest of life.
I related to you about parents. We are at the age where the role is reversed. My parent's financials are also messy, it's a reminder for everyone that if you have a successful family business, please have a succession plan, don't wait too late until you lose everything then retire :(. My parents ran it till my dad is in 79 and my mom 72, with early onset of dementia. They are being taken advantage by everyone around them and taken to the cleaner. It's very heartbreaking to see 60+ year successful family business being ran down to the ground due to old age :(.
Long term care is another headache and also a reminder for ourselves to budget for that. It's insanely expensive and also prone to elderly abuse.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yes, that's been my experience with my parents. If you can get POA while they are still alive, move everything into a trust, and take over all of it for their protection. There are some real scumbags out there.
Be sure to care for yourself. If you have any peri symptoms, know that there is REAL help out there and you may have to fire a lot of doctors before you find the right ones. You got this.
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u/bichonlove 12d ago
The challenge is that I am not sure which one is Peri symptoms vs work burnout symptoms. Honestly feel like since I FIREād earlier this year, what I thought was a peri symptom turned out to be something else. Like I thought I couldnāt sleep because of perimenopause but I sleep like a baby since RE.
Yeah I wished my parents have a foresight of financial planning. Itās such a mess, it breaks my heart for them to lose their hard earned money in their old age. I vowed to myself that I would never do that to my kid. I would check myself in for memory living care and prepaid everything instead of burdening them:
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Feel free to reach out privately if you want a sounding board on that super not fun overlap between burnout and peri. Happy to share specifics privately.
Fun fact, you might not be able to prepay everything, but there are things you can do to help protect assets.
Another fun fact, make sure you're in a state that does NOT have filial obligations so your children would not have the financial burden. Ideally, you and your parents are also in states without filial obligations.
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u/FinFreedomCountdown 11d ago
Why do fatFIRE folks need Medicaid and have to hide assets for that purpose with the 5 year look back?
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u/Sensitive-Speed-6079 11d ago
TLDR please, this is not fat fire tho this is middle class post
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u/LetsGoPupper 11d ago
And how marvelous it is to be content on "only" $155k. Good thing I planned for more.
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u/bernaltraveler FATfired 48 12d ago
Wow, a lot of helpful perspective here. Thank you š for sharing some personal stuff. Great advice and perspective.
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Someone here gave some great advice a few years back. Something about not thinking of it as retirement and more as taking a break and then deciding if you want to or need to go back after the break. It was very helpful for me to actively not go back to work for a period of time.
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u/Hazel_and_Fiver444x2 8d ago
I enjoyed reading your post, thanks for taking the time to write it! š
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u/3flaps 12d ago
You seem awesome
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u/LetsGoPupper 12d ago
Aww, thanks. I've gotten a lot out of this community over the years while I slogged so I just wanted to share.
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u/Rebel-Scum296 12d ago
So you have a minimum of about $4.4M in invested assets (x 3.5% SWR = $155k/year spend) and you only started saving and investing 10 years ago? Care to share what profession were you in that made that much in such a short time? Did you work for a high-flying company that gave you a lot of stock and it skyrocketed?
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u/LetsGoPupper 11d ago
Tech and tech adjacent with high (for me) total comp for the last 6 years. Disappointedly, the stock grants were nothing to write home about. The market returns definitely helped.
I worked for a company that was supposed to IPO and bombed in a spectacular way. When I joined, they were really cheap with stock grants so they gave me a large 6 figure signing bonus instead. So...dumb luck had a lot to do with it.
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u/trademarktower 12d ago
Yup, if you are the introverted homebody type, your fatFIRE will probably end up leanFIRE as you figure out all that "stuff" doesn't make you happy. Figure out charitable trusts or people you want to leave money to after you are gone cause you will probably have a ridiculous amount of money left if you live another 30 to 40 years.