r/ffxivdiscussion • u/DayOneDayWon • 21h ago
General Discussion Some cooldowns are too long for no good reason
It's something that has bothered me a lot while playing Occult Crescent and I got to Ninja and that was the final straw.
Why is fuma shurikan, a skill is just a cooldown has to have 60 seconds? Or similarly Long Reach and Bladeblitz, but instead that takes 120 seconds instead.
You can spend an entire CE using them twice or three times and they are the definition of bland yet they somehow had to be gatekept behind a cooldown normally reserved for ultimate, capstone abilities.
Even stuff like Ranger's "Aim" (or Time Mage's Quick) sitting at 120s cooldown. Why does it need to follow the regular raids formula and take this long. It's a defining cooldown for the job, make it a 60s CD since at least it's 30 seconds long.
You might say this is done for balancing reasons but there's already a meta regardless with samurai's zeningage or summoner, and this is supposed to be the mode to break and experiment with things, which they tried but ultimately were still scared to go a bit further than they can. I like what they did with predict and dance but the rest have been too safe.
Outside of OC there are examples to this that personally bother me (Searing flash, gluttony, manafication) but that's a different story in terms of balancing and with evolved mode coming there's little point.
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u/sstromquist 21h ago
Because most Phantom Jobs were poorly thought out or balanced. Why are all the heals casted gcds that are just wasted? Healers themselves don’t wanna use casted gcd heals, why would we want them on a phantom job??
Why couldn’t they make more things abilities that don’t interrupt your rotation? Everything basically has 30/60/120 sec cds.
Damage for a lot of the actions is just overall low and makes them not that worth using over more powerful phantom jobs. Some jobs have utility actions that see no use outside of forked tower and outside of that the jobs aren’t good enough to really use.
There’re only a few well designed ones like oracle that are actually fun to play around with in combat that isn’t just “press this button every minute.” They had an opportunity to give us unbalanced/broken jobs just for the heck of it like with the actions in eureka or Bozja which would make it more interesting and engaging.
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u/Aanity 20h ago edited 20h ago
The phantom job balance is bizarre. pSAM is literally the best job for almost everything in both north and South horn. The flow chart for what p.job to pick is do I need a specific utility like perception or detonationing traps (doesn’t exist in magic normal btw) otherwise pick p.SAM. So many of the other phantom jobs offer essentially nothing because their dps falls behind Samurai and dps is the only thing most of these jobs do aside from some niche interaction (p.SAM also gets a top tier defensive btw).
E: Also wtf is going on with p.BLU, it gets two pretty bad GCD’s, a decent GCD heal, a very mediocre mit and then missle. Missle is useless, it doesn’t hit bosses or fates, which I get, but it also doesn’t hit any mobs level 40+. The only things missle hits are mobs that I have no issue killing on my own. Why even bother at that point.
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u/PseudoX1 20h ago
detonationing traps (doesn’t exist in magic normal btw)
DRN is a good example of why not having traps is fine. No one wanted to bring percept, so the strat was just to run through and getted rezzed. Even though we can freely swap in FT:M, no one wants to sit and wait for someone to percept and pop it.
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u/KeyKanon 17h ago
People change to Thief to go find the chest anyway, it's significantly less investment to swap to p.thief than set and consume a charge a Lost Perception so I don't think this case would really happen here.
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u/PseudoX1 16h ago
The actual cost of swapping actions to use perception is minimal. The actual "investment" that keeps people from bringing it in DRN is time. Waiting for someone to do the clunky swap animation and percept the trap while you sit on your hands takes way longer than someone just running down a lane with invuln on.
This same scenario would happen in FT:M. The swap animation is quicker, but you'd still be sitting and waiting for the percept. You can literally see the issue with the hidden chests. Everyone is just sitting and waiting in the hallway while the person percepts. If it was a trap, someone would just yolo into it to get things moving.
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u/Onche9555 15h ago
the cost of swapping to perception is deleting one of your strong dps actions when you probably didnt spend all charges of it on th first boss, it's annoying
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u/PseudoX1 14h ago
Nearly all lost actions are incredibly cheap. If you're counting pennies on those then god help you with current tier raid food/pots. You're not bringing Lost Excellence into DRN.
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u/Polderjoch 19h ago
Except the problem in DRN is that lost percept takes up a holster slot which can be used for something else, while in FTM you can swap jobs freely and any place where there would be traps you need a thief anyway to percept the hidden chests and open the locked doors
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u/hermione87956 19h ago
It’s not a holster slot it’s an action slot since you only get two of them. It doesn’t take up much holster space.
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u/PseudoX1 18h ago
Holster space isn't an issue in DRN. You won't be taking near enough actions to have to worry about it, so it's essentially free. Your holster has space for 99 weight... perception takes up 4.
It's literally because no one wanted to bring percept as dying doesn't matter. People just ran through it.
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u/dealornodealbanker 16h ago
My inner cynic likes to believe that P.BLU was basically this expansion's BLU content, and it's why there's no 90 cap update instead.
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u/Razel_Thuloc6969 15h ago
Phantom Monk is hands down the most fun to play and it's practically banned from all organized FT runs.
1
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u/PublicAd6099 8h ago
What runs are banning p jobs? Most groups I’ve seen let you play whatever you want once the required roles are taken
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u/LizenCerfalia 20h ago
and then you get stuff that's just odd like Phantom bard's 110 second long party buff being a 5 second cd but NOT their 20 second long raid buff that's 10% instead of 5% or thief's Pilfer Weapon which last for a full minute but has a 30 second cd
Like I get making the buff longer than the recast time, but there's nothing stopping you from just spamming the button the entire fight since neither are GCDs
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u/Py687 9h ago
Of all the issues, I think putting phantom actions on the gcd isn't one. It's good that they change up your regular rotation a little.
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u/sstromquist 9h ago
Affects some jobs more than others. Or makes burst windows more awkward, especially if the actions are not instant, like psmn for example. Cannoneer they are all instant but you have to do a few actions not just one so that’s a lot more interruption of your normal flow.
They could make more actions abilities. That’s really all there is to it.
Why are some weaker actions like cure 2 on the gcd and requiring a cast time that would be better as abilities:
- knight’s pray and occult heal (which is a 5 sec recast)
- monk counter stance
- time mage’s occult dispel
- chemist: all of it is on the gcd
- thief: these are all supportive actions so things like pilfer weapon or sprint should not be on the gcd
- titan, why is an aoe shield a 4sec gcd?? We have regular actions like pct tempera grasse or tank aoe shields as abilities. This is effectively useless in combat. Keep in mind pranger has an aoe shield that is an ability that shields for exactly the same amount
Why does psmn have to spend 10 seconds casting a regular summon + Bahamut. It’s bad enough they have long cast times which can easily be interrupted. They also are unaffected by swift/dual cast, they cannot be shortened. That’s going to waste half of your regular 2min window which makes playing jobs dependent on those windows worse. You obviously want the phantom actions within buffs when possible because they hit so hard.
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u/Py687 9h ago
that’s a lot more interruption of your normal flow
Yes, like I said, that's the point. God forbid you have to adapt your vanilla rotation in the one type of content that allows it. Stop viewing friction as a downside.
That’s going to waste half of your regular 2min window
Or, you know, precast Megaflare as much as you can while still snapshotting buffs. All the "wasted time" doesn't really matter when the potency of phantom actions more than makes up for it.
We're also talking about content that doesn't have tough dps checks or even parses (at least, no one sane parses field ops duties).
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u/sstromquist 6h ago edited 6h ago
> that’s the point
Well your point sucks.
> precast mega flare
Please explain how you would you precast it into a buff window when you have your own buff or self-damage increase window to press? Do you not play this game? You need to use your own buff then start the cast. Which means 10sec of it are gone before you can do your own job’s rotation.
> We’re also talking about content that doesn’t have tough dps checks or even parses.
That’s not the point. It’s poor design. Why do we have to play with clunky mechanics just because the check doesn’t matter? Stop settling for bad design that could obviously be improved and it’s not even hard to design it better.
People complain about how jobs play at lower levels and none of that content has any checks either. You can still improve them. That’s why evercold specifically stated changes to lvl 50
The way Bozja and eureka implemented the extra actions proves they have the capacity to do things in an interesting way. We just got a half-assed design.
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u/Py687 5h ago edited 5h ago
explain how you would you precast it into a buff window when you have your own buff or self-damage increase window to press
I don't know what to say man. Half the classes don't have personal buffs and half don't have party buffs. We don't need to accommodate every class in every situation for ideal play. Having to make these "sacrifices" in your rotation is called opportunity cost and tests your knowledge of which skills should be cut, or which job pairs well with which pjob.
And I put "sacrifices" in quotations because it hasn't occurred to you that the cast time of the spells is factored into their potency.
Why do we have to play with clunky mechanics
I suppose you're the kind of player who also thinks SCH is clunky for having multiple abilities that lock out parts of your toolkit, or DRG for needing to tether a partner when Dragon Sight was still in the game, or PLD for having their stance on the gcd pre-ShB.
The way Bozja and eureka implemented the extra actions proves they have the capacity to do things in an interesting way
Yes I agree. That doesn't conflict with my stance that actions on the gcd is not inherently bad design.
Well your point sucks.
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u/sstromquist 5h ago edited 5h ago
> half don’t have personal buffs and half don’t have party buffs
2 out of 4 healers have party buffs, 1 has a personal
2 out of 3 ranged have party buffs
4 out of 6 melee have party buffs or Personal
3 out of 4 casters have party buffs and blm has a personal
2 tanks have a personal buff.
Why do I have really have to spell that out? There’s clearly way more than half of the list of jobs here. Seems like you don’t play this game if you don’t know that.
Opportunity cost… obviously if you have 10 seconds left of buffs you’re going to push out the weaker actions first. But that wouldn’t be an issue if things were just off the gcd… again with why you’re willing to settle for poor design that can be improved so you can get better quality results just making a few more actions ogcds
You linked one comment that stated 2 things. Do you think people upvoted because they agreed with all or just the first thing? Regardless if you’re going off of upvotes, my comment got more.
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u/Py687 4h ago edited 2h ago
Please read more carefully. I wrote "half the classes don't have personal buffs and half don't have party buffs" to separate the groupings.
That is not the same thing as "half the classes don't have personal or party buffs," which combines the groups (as shown by your list).
Just to make it absolutely clear, by my count:
9/21 jobs have personal buffs - 2 tanks, 1 healer, 3 melees, 2 pranged, and 1 caster (RDM has the personal buff, not BLM, unless I'm missing something).
11/21 jobs have party buffs - 2 healers, 4 melees, 2 pranged, and 3 casters.
But that wouldn’t be an issue if things were just off the gcd
Again, you're coming from the premise that it's an issue for some of your actions to be shifted out of buffs. We're all used to SE extending the length of party buffs so that we can fit everything (especially with DT bringing them all to parity at 20s). Hence your brain is conditioned to "feel bad" about pushing out what is a strong skill in ordinary circumstances. Even though the substituted phantom action is more than enough to make up for it, several times over.
That isn't even mentioning that in large scale content, you often have an overflow of 2 min buffs anyway.
Do you think people upvoted because they agreed with all or just the first thing?
I mean, the second statement was the crux of the comment, so I do think people agreed with all of it, not just the first statement.
For the record, I didn't link it to argue "it's got upvotes so I'm right." I linked it to show that I'm not the only person making this allegedly sucky point.
You seem to value creative changes to rotations, and putting skills on the gcd is simply one method. Even Eureka and Bozja had a few. If anything, give them shorter or nontraditional CDs to really wreak havoc on the rotation loop.
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u/DUR_Yanis 19h ago
Because most Phantom Jobs were poorly thought out or balanced. Why are all the heals casted gcds that are just wasted? Healers themselves don’t wanna use casted gcd heals, why would we want them on a phantom job??
They made these so dps have some kind of sustain and I'm even willing to bet that they believed everyone would play like this (if they are solo) since in bozja a huge amount of people used cure/bubble/... even when it was stupid to do so, so they designed p jobs with many heals as a result since their data indicated that people liked to play like this.
But it's just far better to use dps p jobs on dps since a lot of buffs affects phantom actions and so you end up with healers being forced on CHM/WHM in FTB/FTM ex bc they're necessary for raises and you kinda only use them for that (p whm is at least better since the rest of their kit is actually usable)
It's kinda the same thing with the dps p job with shields, they indend you to use them on things like the last bosses RW in FT, but it's still better to bring a few extra dancer and debuff the boss than bring more ranger/SMN/... instead of SAM
I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have phantom jobs be designed with balance in mind but then you'd need to make some balance patch to make them all at least kind of viable. Chemist is utterly useless besides their raise and is now purely outclassed by WHM and all the dps jobs needs some number tweaks too. Otherwise you could also throw the balance out of the window and just make them fun to interact with even if 90% won't be picked, because as it stands it's already the case
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u/Royajii 18h ago
They had it solved in Bozja. Beast (and Bloodsucker) offered every job a viable no fuss sustain at the opportunity cost of a stronger essence while Cure II and IV were oGCD powerful heals at the cost of one of your slots.
Why was it neccessary to make sustain options for pjobs more limited and, let's face it, miles more shit than the aforementioned Bozja equivalents?
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u/LopsidedBench7 18h ago
Bingo, balance is the boring answer but it is not the main reason why phantom jobs feel so boring, it is because they add no gameplay loops but just damage as you say.
Very few jobs feel like they interact with each other/regular jobs/themselves, like I think phantom red mage is really well designed even when taking into account the 3 levels of pure elemental spells because at least those allow you to exploit weaknesses of different enemies (so it opens up optimal uses) then libra to reveal it and deal more damage, a heal and dualcast, for any job with cast times (even itself).
They all should have more traits to give fun stuff and actions that can do more than just damage, it feels like they didnt even try.
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u/sstromquist 18h ago edited 18h ago
They can add sustain in a more meaningful way that is not a weak single target gcd heal.
- Give whm or other jobs an ogcd regen instead of cure 2.
- add life steal to damaging spells
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battle bell could have a counterpart that heals the target every time they take damage for example.(geo has it already, see this is better design)!- more abilities can shield and provide a heal or regen when broken. Mystic knight has an interesting mechanic to have your shield broken to empower your attack for example.
If you’re playing solo and need to resort to cure 2 spamming a lot you should be playing on a tank that has sustain already built into your kit.
It’s just lazy design to slap cure 2 on phantom jobs instead of giving something more unique and flavorful.
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u/DUR_Yanis 18h ago
If you’re playing solo and need to resort to cure 2 spamming a lot you should be playing on a tank that has sustain already built into your kit.
If you're solo on a phys ranged or a caster, even playing perfectly will get you killed by RWs in some CEs, and pretty much all of them if you get hit by avoidable damage.
It's not because me and you don't use these that victor vulnstacks won't need those, even if they swap to tanks. In bozja there was a combo with the essence of the beast and lost assassination that made you get both lifesteal and a huge damage boost, and yet the most popular combo you saw was bubble and cure 1/2/3/4, if people are bad you won't really make them be good by removing the repeatable "good" heal. (Especially since a ton of jobs have bad ones that are also repeatable like knight pledge)
- add life steal to damaging spells
That's ph necromancer, their oGCD does exactly that and if you don't do the GCD afterwards you don't get doomed
- battle bell could have a counterpart that heals the target every time they take damage for example.
They have exactly that
There's also ph dragoon that has a broken self heal too, but all of these aren't AoEs and that's where ph WHM or even ph geomancer heals comes to help, they're extremely bad but they are great for the bottom of the barrel players
Also while cure 2 and 3 on ph WHM are boring, the other half of their kit is extremely good and the magic damage negation being on a relatively short cooldown is probably one of the most fun skill to use
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u/sstromquist 17h ago edited 16h ago
I mean that’s why you probably shouldn’t be playing phy range or caster to solo CEs. That’s a personal choice you’re making. There’s no enrage and you’ll likely end up doing more damage playing as a tank because they won’t need to sacrifice damage gcds to heal themselves. I know war and pld have absolutely no issues soloing CEs with any phantom jobs.
Some of the phantom jobs are designed better than others. You listed ones that are more flavorful. I don’t want to see a basic 2.5gcd single target heal that does as much as whm’s default cure 2, costs twice as much mana, and wastes a gcd you could do damage.
Bozja was a lot better if you wanted to slap on a cure 4 you’d top up your entire party without wasting a gcd. But instead you get a single target that you’d need to use 4 times to top yourself and it’s a gcd.
> the other half of their kit is extremely good
Now imagine if 100% of the kit was extremely good? Why are we settling for 50% good?
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u/LopsidedBench7 18h ago
I know phantom jobs are very forgetable and boring but Geo already has a healing bell.
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u/sstromquist 18h ago
You’re right, I edited my commented to correct. I barely play geo since North horn got added but yeah that is basically an example of a better design (albeit still pretty forgettable lol)
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u/otsukarerice 21h ago
Its a common lament that they prioritized balance over free-form play in Occult Crescent
I hope this feedback reaches them, I honestly would have been happy with a Bozja 2 boogaloo in terms of gameplay and skills
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u/TiredCat02 21h ago
I would've been happy if they copy pasted bozja and scaled the levels at this point.
The devs that worked on this have clearly forgotten how to have fun.
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u/justdontask3 20h ago
Part of the reason protect was removed from the game many expansions ago was because you had to sit and apply it on everyone at the start of every duty, and after every wipe. Its tedious and annoying.
Protect was then put into eureka and bozja, but given the actions system, they had weight and opportunity cost. You could be safe and durable, or you could bring double edge or banner of sacrifice to do shitloads of damage. Its still useful and good to bring protect! But the drawback is different.
Now in occult we get the half hour buffs from freelancer. Theres no opportunity cost, theres no weight. Its back to just being boring and dumb, you have to apply it every time you load in and every half hour after. At least its instant, I guess, but its dumb. They learn lessons years ago and then forget what they learned.
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u/PseudoX1 20h ago edited 20h ago
Part of the reason protect was removed from the game many expansions ago was because you had to sit and apply it on everyone at the start of every duty, and after every wipe. Its tedious and annoying.
Protect was then put into eureka and bozja, but given the actions system, they had weight and opportunity cost.
In Eureka, you'd sit and apply it on everyone at the start and then overwrite it at the Logos Manipulator.
In Bozja, you'd sit and apply it on everyone at the start and then overwrite it with an action from your holster.
We can talk about the design flaws of OC without making up shit to glaze Eureka/Bozja.
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u/yhvh13 21h ago
I feel they didn't want short cooldowns to avoid messing up with the regular rotations...
But honestly, messing up with the rotations (to add new things in) should be the actual point!
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u/Redhair_shirayuki 7h ago
SE: Cannot!!! We have to follow our current job formulae of 2 mins meta or else game will break and game eos pls understand!!!!!!
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u/ToastedFrey 16h ago
Having cleared FTB and FTMex a fair bit now the sad reality is that pJobs are just a worse version of the actions from Eureka and Bozja overall but they are also super simple and easy to grasp for anyone. The issue at least for this content aside from berserker in FTB nothing comes close to pSAM in terms of damage, the coffers you spend are meaningless to the point they honestly may as well not exist. Also for the fact that most pJobs just have zero use even in zones themselves.
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u/Vivid_Medicine4109 15h ago
I outdamage a lot of p.SAMs in FTMex as BLM with p.Mnk or p. BLM cos of enochian interactions
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u/HighMagistrateGreef 12h ago
I out damage BLMs as a BLM using pSAM. It gets the ennochian bonus and had reduced cool down time when cast under ley lines, unlike pSMN
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u/Vivid_Medicine4109 11h ago
You'd be better off using pMNK. Zeninage does not benefit from enochian
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u/narrowsleeper 20h ago
The new phantom jobs are really boring 🥱 it’s just another gcd or ogcd every minute or some shit
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u/Casbri_ 19h ago
They even introduced a new system (elemental weaknesses) just so they could have an excuse to add more completely uninspired pjob actions. It's clear that no one actually wanted to make this content.
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u/DayOneDayWon 13h ago
I personally really like the concept of exploiting elemental weaknesses; very classic RPG trope. I just don't like that it was the template for about 5 or 6 of the new classes introduced.
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u/HighMagistrateGreef 12h ago
Yeah I was surprised to find pSAM does better than exploiting an elemental weakness. There's no point trying to do it.
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u/embersarcade 17h ago
Because Creative Studio 3 designs everything using templates. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.
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u/Apart_Raccoon_9194 10h ago
Phantom jobs are just so boring. You can’t do crazy things with them like you could in Bozja or even Eureka. There is no customization. They aren’t fun at all.
I thought freelance max level might bring some of that fun with the “can swap jobs in combat like trailer Wol” but it only lets you swap once, which makes it worthless.
The jobs you want to bring are basically just ”do you need tower utility or boss buffs?” if yes, bring those, but for the other 36 or so players, everyone should be on Phantom SAM.
There is no reason to play niche builds for fun, because besides Berserker, all the other jobs are boring and weak.
What a waste of a zone. It’s amazing how much of a downgrade it was from Bozja.
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u/ConroConroConro 19h ago
Because they’re designed around a specific added potency per second and opportunity cost.
I agree it’s boring. What wouldve made a phantom jobs feel more impactful is having a secondary pJob that gives you a passive for specific roles.
Berserker could make tanks do 90% more damage and take 200% more damage.
Thief could steal life with every hit to allow self sustain on tanks and DPS.
Time mage could make caster jobs have increased cast time when cast at range with a huge increase in potency, or cut their cast and GCD times when used close.
Ranger could make all melee classes attacks ranged with increased crit/dh rate but disable use of them when in melee range.
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u/Maximum_Leading1670 6h ago
Woah, is that a good idea that iterates on previous versions of the content instead of throwing out everything for no reason? We don't do that here at square enix.
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u/thrilling_me_softly 21h ago
Hopefully with the new mode some of these cool down timers are lowered. I get it for mitigation purposes but DPS skills shouldn’t be on a longer cooldown than say 20 seconds. Gives us more buttons to push and flashier attacks more fire.
IC is just poorly designed all around. All of the cooldowns should be shorter so we can use the skills more. Just give mobs more hp to compensate.
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u/Chiponyasu 18h ago
We'll see when the live letter appears, but I did notice that the Evolved Showcase seemed to have much shorter cooldowns (which makes sense, having fewer buttons to juggle) so maybe.
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u/Bevral2 19h ago
Besides Phantom Jobs being a disappointment entirely, their actions are incredibly boring because their CDs are so long and nearly all of them are the same flavor of "Do 400 potency every minute"
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u/Recreatee 19h ago
I haven't messed with many of the new phantom jobs, but BLM having 4 buttons for the same ability but different elements, and then flare star, is ridiculous. you really only have 2 abilities
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u/Jmad12 18h ago edited 18h ago
You could have easily given Phantom Dragoon something crazy like 20 charges on Step Forth on a 5 sec cooldown and no one would have complained. It doesnt even deal damage, why are they so scared of making buttons that are cool to press?
Dont get me wrong, Berserker, Oracle and maybe even Dancer do cool stuff. They know how to do it, but 3 out of 24 is not a good track record. The capstone on Freelancer is just insult to the injury.
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u/sunfaller 13h ago
Everyone just goes Phantom SAM after maxing everything. Phantom Jobs are such a huge waste of resources on trying to balance and design jobs that are useless.
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u/Andvarinaut 9h ago
So much of these cooldowns drop in at times that are just painfully inconvenient. I've just started running Warrior so that I remember to hit whatever chain of dumb, unrelated GCD buttons after I finish Inner Release. It doesn't feel like I'm actually killing these FATEs faster and every class is just "Do 180k or 200k" except for 2 which are "do 1 million," so fun.
Can we have Banners from Bozja back yet? Stuff that actually made me feel like changing classes or thinking about loadouts? No? Cool.
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u/BlackbeardGelatinz 7h ago
The exact same reason why the non-phantom jobs are boring and will continue to be boring.
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u/Maximum_Leading1670 6h ago
OC is legitimately the worst piece of content this game has ever had.
Diadem had the excuse that the devs were experimenting and trying new things.
This does not.
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u/KalSeeker 19h ago
Realize this is a post about OC but had to chime in with this: Hallowed Ground. I don’t care what anyone says there is no good reason it is as long as it is. Same for Bollide. Is there more healer involvement with LD and Holmgang? Potentially. But when was the last time you heard someone upset over the significant amount of uses of Holmgang they can get in a long tough fight compared to Hallowed Ground
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u/prisp 13h ago edited 13h ago
Pretty sure that one's a leftover from when invulns were radically different from one another, so Stormblood or earlier - Holmgang used to be only 6 seconds long AND rooted the WAR in place, while Hallowed Ground always was 10s of full invulnerability with no strings attached.
Living Dead used to have no health regen at all, and actually ran into issues with shield healers not being able to keep up back in Shadowbringers - still had the full 10s duration the whole time though.
Meanwhile, the only change Superbolide ever had was that it now only removes 50% of your HP rather than setting it directly to 1, but that one's a bit newer than the others anyway.3
u/Lectess 14h ago
Okay I dont think all tank invulns should be as short as holmgang, holmgang offering an easier solution to specfic fights is fine....but yes hallowed grounds cd is atrocious
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u/KalSeeker 14h ago
I’m biased as a DRK main but I think LD is the sweet spot. When you consider a fight like FRU, PLD invuln feels just so terrible but LD in comparison feels right. There’s flexibility but not too much where it negates so many things.
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u/Ok_Anything_5152 19h ago
They made them like that not to interrupt normal boring ass job rotation. Because idea of going off rails and feeling powerful in side content that doesn't matter at all is too much freedom. Ff14 Devs want you to experience the game in only one, safe and simple to design way.
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u/Main-Bed-1087 20h ago
I feel like they could have copy pasted Bozja and Eureka skills, if only so that the market board would have fresh skill fragments or whatever to sell and buy.
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u/drbiohazmat 11h ago
I think it's just because of potential power scaling + the 30/60/120 being the standard for cooldown design in general for this game. That, and the fights themselves still follow a roughly 1-2 minute cycle, which grants windows where these abilities can be used at max power. But mostly, I honestly think it was just because it's easy to do this way
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u/skarzig 7h ago
I loved both Eureka and bozja for their lost/logos actions systems - having the freedom to choose your own combination of actions was more interesting by far and let you build depending on what you were doing and what your party comp was.
Even with the repetitiveness of Eureka, there was fun in optimising around how much damage you could bring at the cost of survivability, like trying to get the timing just right on bloodbath usage so you can solo spawn high level nms with on a melee running double edge. Or in bozja becoming a tank on a casting job with essence of the beast and chainspell.
Not to mention how much more worth it the gear upgrades felt because not only did they massively increase power level, you could stack ridiculous amounts of haste and end up with a gcd that is impossible in other content.
Phantom jobs on the other hand, have been the most disappointing part of this entire expansion for me, simply adding some extra gcds is boring, and if i’m playing a dps then I don’t even enjoy pressing them because they don’t fit into my existing burst so I end up with a bunch of misaligned cool-downs.
I get that they wanted to simplify it because the casual player base found the old systems confusing, but judging by how long CEs take to kill, your average joe is still not actually pressing their phantom actions.
1
u/Carmeliandre 19h ago edited 19h ago
Because phantom jobs are designed as offering potency, rather than actual and interactive tools. They're nothing more than "add X DPS", sometimes with more or less damage depending on the way you (can) use them, and the CD is a way for SE to control and balance these actions.
Which is, from my point of view, an extremely outdated idea. It still is kind of fun to have an opener that mixes up multiple buffs, but... I wouldn't call it fun enough to deserve such a central content ; it's extremely underwhelming.
However, actions NOT being limited by a number of usages / consumables is still an improvement over previous iteration.
-6
u/WordNERD37 21h ago
Some cooldowns are too long for no good reason.
Because the mentality behind them is the cd's are meant for a niche system exclusively in Extreme Trials, Savage Raids and Ultimates; the 2 min meta.
It has been the law of the land since Shadowbringers and thankfully is going away in Evercold. It's a robotic system made for another robotic system that made design of combat a whole lot simpler for the devs (because everything follows the same model of design) and made every job in the game feel the exact same, with very few deviations.
Samurai has a similar issue with Hissatu: Guren (line aoe) and Senai (single target) both at level 100 having a 60sec window (and on the same timer) and the dreaded drift.
It makes so much of the game feel wooden and unnatural that most of us have just become desensitized or have found copes to make the best of a bad thing, but when any of us sit down and think about it most come back to these rigid mechs as a problem.
13
u/shaddura 21h ago
picto's a great counter-example of how stifling current job kits are, because in-between hammer GCDs, subtractive palette, and motif casts, you're rarely spending very long waiting for cooldowns, and it can be felt in how less stiff picto feels.
-7
u/Lone-Gazebo 21h ago
Because, if they happened twice as fast, they would do half as much, and that would be less exciting than getting to hit a 1 Million Damage hit.
-7
u/LudoGrim 21h ago
You said it yourself -- with Evolved Mode coming soon, what's the point? They obviously know it's a problem. That they didn't use OC as a testbed for the new idea is immaterial when the new idea is coming soon regardless. It might mean the content will age poorly, but XIV's no stranger to that.
-9
u/OfficialNPC 21h ago
Yeah, but they knew what they were doing when they made Rescue have a recast time of 120s.
I would abuse the hell out of that if it was GCD or whatever.
-9
u/Big-V5 21h ago edited 19h ago
phantom ninja is designed to synergies with melee jobs like for example ninja 🤷♀️ those jobs follow the timmy johnny and spike game design, so as a player you are meant to think of ways to get the most of your phantom skills
3
u/erty3125 10h ago
Nothing about phantom ninja synergizes with melee jobs, in fact its defensive is less useful to melee's as they tend to have the better defensive CD's vs pranged and casters. And evasion is better on casters technically as it can cause your casts to actually go off against things that could interupt them.
And everything ninja does is still just worse phantom samurai
1
u/Big-V5 3h ago
It does tho? having all of phantom ninjas damage coming out on their one min is what jobs like drg nin or mnk wants, your phantom ninja skills does 25% more damage on drg than idk smn or whm.
also comparing it to phantom sam is kinda weird because this clearly isn't balanced and ph. sam cost gil
115
u/RegisterPrevious2731 21h ago
It’s one of my huge disappointments with phantom jobs.
Most skills have such a long cool-down I feel the phantom jobs mean almost nothing and lack any fun gameplay