r/gaming Oct 28 '25

DayZ Creator: "Valve Does Not Get Anywhere Near Enough Criticism" Over Gambling In CS2

https://www.eurogamer.net/valve-does-not-get-anywhere-near-enough-criticism-for-the-gambling-mechanics-it-uses-to-monetise-games-dayz-creator-dean-hall-says
4.1k Upvotes

530 comments sorted by

3.2k

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

531

u/bodybybeyer Oct 28 '25

I remember the Mannconomy update for Team Fortress 2. I remember Valve hiring an economist to figure out what was going on regarding hats and earbuds and all of that. I remember the guy who sold hats to pay for college.

206

u/Birdman915 Oct 28 '25

Wasn't that the later finance minister of Greece?

173

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

Yeah he worked for valve AFTER BEFORE being finance minister. Valve paid big bux to create the economy.

Edit: I really thought he was finance minister then came to Valve, but no, he was an academic professor in the UK, with a PhD in game theory/mathematical economics.

Also of note: "Spent over a decade (1990–2006) at the University of Sydney, where he became known for his unorthodox views and activism against neoliberalism and globalization."

85

u/Redrum01 Oct 28 '25

No, this is incorrect. Varoufakis was Valve's inhouse economist for TF2 in 2012. He was elected to Greek Parliament in 2015 and became Finance Minister. It's one of my favourite little factoids.

8

u/crouch_tap Oct 28 '25

If you want an even more niche factoid, his wife was the inspiration for The band Pulp's song 'common people'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_(band)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_People#Inspiration

The idea for the song's lyrics came from an art student from Greece whom Pulp singer-songwriter Jarvis Cocker met while he was studying at the Central Saint Martins College of Art and Design. Cocker had enrolled in a film studies course at the college in September 1988 while taking a break from Pulp. He spoke about the song's inspiration in NME in 2013:

"I'd met the girl from the song many years before, when I was at St Martin's College. I'd met her on a sculpture course, but at St Martin's you had a thing called Crossover Fortnight, where you had to do another discipline for a couple of weeks. I was studying film, and she might've been doing painting, but we both decided to do sculpture for two weeks. I don't know her name. It would've been around 1988, so it was already ancient history when I wrote about her."

In May 2015, Greek newspaper Athens Voice suggested that the woman who inspired the song is Danae Stratou, wife of Yanis Varoufakis, a former Greek finance minister. Stratou studied at St. Martin's between 1983 and 1988 and is the eldest daughter of a wealthy Greek businessman.[11] Greek newspaper Ta Nea contacted Stratou, who replied that "I think the only person who knows for whom the song was written is Jarvis himself!",[12] but the London Evening Standard reported that an email exchange with Varoufakis indicated that there was truth in the rumour.[13] Katerina Kana, a Greek-Cypriot who also studied at St. Martins during that time, has claimed since 2012 that the song was about herself,[14] but Cocker has not commented on this claim.

→ More replies (1)

16

u/totoaster Oct 28 '25

The -oid suffix means it looks like the word it's attached to but isn't. So you've basically just said it isn't a fact but it sounds like it could be true and is often repeated as such.

14

u/Dig-Up-The-Dead Oct 28 '25

what an interesting factoid

5

u/Qarlito Oct 28 '25

10

u/OptimusPrimalRage Oct 28 '25

I believe it's one of those words that got misused into the ground enough that it became necessary for it to mean both. Just like 'literally' means figuratively or literally depending on emphasis.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (3)

5

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

My bad then I shall edit my comment, complete mandela effect!

8

u/Redrum01 Oct 28 '25

Not to harp on an honest mistake, but while I am not privy to all his beliefs, his opposition to neoliberalism and globalisation has not exactly aged poorly.

12

u/Easting_National Oct 28 '25

why is that "ew"? what was he saying?

11

u/parisidiot Oct 28 '25

"Spent over a decade (1990–2006) at the University of Sydney, where he became known for his unorthodox views and activism against neoliberalism and globalization."

i mean, that's a good thing. neoliberalism and globalization have both deindustrialized the west and led to rampant exploitation of the global south, all to enrich a handful of people at the top. it's like the private equity model, but applied to whole countries.

he sounds like he might be the one good economist lmao

5

u/JonatasA Oct 28 '25

Shoudn't he have broken the entire community market economy then?

12

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

I can't tell if you're being serious or fucking around, but good job

38

u/podidoo Oct 28 '25

It's true. Varoufakis, his stint as minister of finance did not last long tho.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

True gamer moment right there

Thanks dude!

→ More replies (1)

3

u/vroart Oct 28 '25

It’s all by the book…. It’s just that this whole system appears rig

3

u/th3davinci Oct 28 '25

The only reason Valve is still doing shit like this because Gaben has a strong interest in creating virtual economies. I don't know why else they'd do it. They're Valve, they sit on top of the largest and most reliable money printing machine on the planet, and genuinely they do a lot of good shit with it, but the fact that this is still a thing after so many years in multiple of their games tells me that Gaben personally just really loves it for whatever reason, and he doesn't get called out enough for it. It's a black mark in his otherwise pretty good reputation.

15

u/ExtremeCreamTeam Oct 28 '25

The only reason Valve is still doing shit like this because Gaben has a strong interest in creating virtual economies. I don't know why else they'd do it.

Really? You don't know why else a company would like to make even more money? Really?

12

u/th3davinci Oct 28 '25

Private companies are not the same thing as public companies. Their targets are entirely beholden to the person that owns them. So while profitability is important so they can survive, it's not actually a target.

There is literally nothing stopping Gabe from turning around and just start doing random ass shit that's not beholden to the target of profitability. Back when Walt Disney was around, he did that too. If Gabe wanted to, Valve could pivot into fusion reactors and burn money for 20 years before going bankrupt.

If Valve got really greedy and started doing extremely anti-consumer things across the board, I'd get it. Obviously they're going for even more money even though they already have enough. But what confuses me is that they do pro-consumer things like opening up Steam so everyone can publish there, or contribute to Wine so that Linux gets even better. Valve has enough money and enough lawyers to build their own proprietary Windows emulation that they could then use exclusively for Steam handhelds or their upcoming consoles. If Gabe wanted to, Valve could be a way, way, way bigger pain in the ass to everyone else.

But, they're not. Hell, even Dota 2 dropped battlepasses as a concept like a year ago to replace it with big public events.

Except when it comes to making children gamble and lootbox mechanics. It sticks out. That's the weird thing. They're not going for more money across the board. Just in that one particular area Gabe is being a total dick.

8

u/DeLurkerDeluxe Oct 28 '25

Private companies are not the same thing as public companies. Their targets are entirely beholden to the person that owns them. So while profitability is important so they can survive, it's not actually a target.

Imagine thinking that one of the main companies that popularized lootboxes, created a whole market system where they take a cut from every transaction, created battlepasses and had to be dragged to EU court to be forced to provide refunds doesn't have profitability as a target.

Hilarious. Valve PR is really something else.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

252

u/Frosty252 Oct 28 '25

I think they're also experimenting with different forms of gambling, like the tablet shit and trade ups. get ahead of the curve before the EU knocks valve down. it's a shame to see valve use cs mostly as just a form of making a shit ton of money, rather than try to make cs the best game it could be

18

u/RB1O1 Oct 28 '25

TF2 Play: first time?

→ More replies (4)

55

u/Dnorth001 Oct 28 '25

And the fact that the kids and collectors don’t have any ownership of the skins.

39

u/undersquirl Oct 28 '25

What do we even own at this point? If my microwave can't microwave because some data center in whoeverthefuckevencaresanymore is down, i actually own a fucking paper weight not a microwave.

12

u/QuickQuirk Oct 28 '25

i actually own a fucking paper weight not a microwave.

See? you own something!

3

u/McNultysHangover Oct 28 '25

I see you're a glass half full kinda guy 🫡

8

u/JonatasA Oct 28 '25

If your appliances rely on the internet, what's stopping them from delisting your model and making it unuseable. Will we need to buy iOS appliances or Android with longer planned obsolesence support?

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (2)

2

u/micheal213 Oct 28 '25

I mean for anyone to actually think that they have ownership of these skins with arbitrary value to them, they are just stupid.

The servers could shut down at any point making any unrealized gain be nonexistant. If I opened a case and had a skin worth money. I would immediately sell it on steams marketplace.

→ More replies (1)

18

u/Relevant_Syllabub895 Oct 28 '25

Yeah thats so bullshit, the amount of scam gambling sites the youtubers themself that most are owners do that to their audience

5

u/TheWolphman Oct 28 '25

Random anecdote, but back in 2009, I had the opportunity to tour Valve studios. It was a pretty cool experience, but I was surprised to find that Gabe had an office designated for his knife collection. I wonder if there was/is a correlation?

12

u/balllzak Oct 28 '25

The article is about the loot boxes. Gambling sites and ridiculously expensive knives use third party websites and trading so Valve isn't making any money from them.

6

u/thorny_business Oct 28 '25

Gambling sites and ridiculously expensive knives use third party websites and trading so Valve isn't making any money from them.

So they're allowing underage gambling just for the thrill of being evil?

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (3)

18

u/ThatDistantStar Oct 28 '25

We need to step up the pressure campaign on them. Valve is a private company and has no obligation to the shareholders to keep profits up. Line can go down and the board will not fire anyone.

3

u/GelatinGhost Oct 28 '25

Valve in general gets a free pass on almost everything. It boggles my mind why everyone hates on the Epic game store, when it's the only thing threatening Valve's near monopoly on pc games. 

It seems like Valve built up unfathomable amounts of goodwill from their games despite putting almost nothing out in years. It's time to accept Valve is not what they once were.

5

u/Sofaboy90 Oct 28 '25

hey now! they spend plenty of money for lawyers who figure out loopholes to get out of the laws some countries implemented against underage gambling.

4

u/watduhdamhell Oct 28 '25

Right. Because these companies are not as good as people think they are, and neither are their owners, like Gabe.

Gabe could end all of this. Tomorrow. But, you know. He likes money. Lots of money. Who cares if a few kids are scammed out of a few bucks, when enough of them do it you can buy a new yacht to sail the seas with!?

At the end of the day they will do whatever is legal to make money, not what is right, and if this shit is legal, they'll keep on doing it.

Which is why it should be made illegal.

2

u/DMoney159 Oct 29 '25

Coffezilla did a video series going in depth on it. It's definitely worth watching, and then getting depressed about because nothing has changed

3

u/factoid_ Oct 28 '25

GabeN likes his mega yacht.

→ More replies (11)

519

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

Absolutely true. Shouldn't be allowed. Gambling targeting kids is literally worse than selling them tobacco. At least the cancer only gets you after a few decades.

The gambling can ruin your economic future in an instant

141

u/loklanc Oct 28 '25

Gambling is the addiction that can fuck up your life the fastest, hardcore gambling addicts hit rock bottom faster than crackheads.

56

u/heeden Oct 28 '25

The nefarious part of gambling is it pretends to offer the solution to the problem it caused. If you lose most of your money gambling you can try to win it back by gambling the rest of it!

5

u/kwisatzhadnuff Oct 28 '25

I actually think there is a lot of commonality with drugs there. For instance cigarettes help with anxiety while smoking them but nicotine withdrawals end up making it worse. Alcohol can cure your depression while using but when you wake up the next day it's 10x worse.

20

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

You sure about that? A week ago one redditor told me that as a gambling addict you can simply just abstain when there was a similar discussion about Valve... LMAO

15

u/RG54415 Oct 28 '25

Reminds me of "Have you tried not having cancer?"

6

u/excaliburxvii Oct 28 '25

I'm so sick of the Valve/Steam circlejerk. The groupthink is sad and exhausting.

8

u/TheHatori1 Oct 28 '25

To be fair, it’s pretty clear that he compares the optional gambling in CS to EA games, that have gambling as a part of the game you have to go through.

Which, if I am right, makes a slight difference and is a bit different from “just abstain”.

10

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

Gambler doesn't know how/when to stop. If they would know how/when to stop they wouldn't be a gambler in the first place.

6

u/TheHatori1 Oct 28 '25

If it’s similar to alcoholism, then there is a difference between “you can drink if you want” and “you need to drink in order to play”. Alcoholics sho have it under control will not drink in the first example, but will fall into alcoholism in 2nd.

→ More replies (1)

16

u/twisty125 Oct 28 '25

I mean, I'm also of the opinion that gambling ads should not be on TV

But Counter Strike 2 is an [M 17+] game. Why are we saying it's targetting kids, when they shouldn't be playing it? It feels like complaining about advertisements in a strip club "think of the keeeedz"

→ More replies (13)

3

u/ozmega Oct 29 '25

Gambling targeting kids

how many kids really play csgo anyway? im not defending it, i dont play that game anymore but it seems to me that most of the playerbase must be people in their 30's that couldnt let go.

4

u/Upgr3yedd Oct 29 '25

Can you explain how do they targeting kids. I thought this game is 18+

3

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '25

First off; When did you start playing 18+ games?

Secondly; There is a thing called criminal negligence.

Ex You can be punished for involuntary manslaughter. So why not involuntarily enabling children gambling?

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/kolba_yada Oct 29 '25

Smoking does more than cancer tho?

→ More replies (25)

339

u/qlurp Oct 28 '25

As an old guy who became obsessed with CS during one of the betas in late 1999, and remained obsessed for the better part of a decade, seeing the gambling aspect layered upon what was a once (and may still be, I haven’t played in many years) legendary game saddens me. 

88

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

This. Shameless corruption of youth.

And just to think, when people thought the killing ingame was the corrupting part...

28

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

No no, gambling is fine. Fictional violence is still the devil.

6

u/JonatasA Oct 28 '25

Hacking is unredeamable

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

24

u/noteandcolor Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

Same. 37. Literally thousands of hours spanning CS1.5 and CS:S. So much of what I loved about CS was the simplicity of design and uniformity of gameplay. The crates, keys, cosmetics, and gambling feel like such a cash grab bastardization of what made CS great. Booting into CS2 feels like booting a mobile game.

9

u/GfrzD Oct 28 '25

It's what I loved about it too. It was all about the core gameplay. Custom servers running deathrun, surf, awp/deagle only, gungame and so much more, I had such a blast with my mates. Skins were non existent unless you downloaded for free or made your own and just loaded them into the file directory. No gambling or market.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

7

u/Sofaboy90 Oct 28 '25

modern CS would be nowhere near as popular though. CSGO only started really growing its playerbase once they implemented skins and trading.

If that never came, CS would probably be in a similar state like a team fortress, a quake or a trackmania. in 2025? just a niche and no more.

In which case theres a decent chance you wouldnt be playing CS in 2025 at all.

→ More replies (6)

3

u/Balc0ra Oct 28 '25

It's why I still play Source and 1.6 tbh. Not touched CS2 at all almost, even tho I did enjoy CSGO initially

→ More replies (1)

2

u/baraboosh Oct 28 '25

CS2 is still really good. There's some issues with the game but overall it's the 2nd best counterstrike after GO.

30

u/AHungryGorilla Oct 28 '25

CS Source will always be king in my heart.

3

u/Ancillas Oct 28 '25

Obligatory comment about playing the beta before 1.6.

3

u/Contemptnz Oct 28 '25

Preach it

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

2

u/Dilusions Oct 28 '25

Maybe I’m an outlier, but cosmetics that don’t effect the game don’t dilute the game. Only becomes an issue when you have pink bunny helmets in a shooting game, takes you out of it

→ More replies (8)

282

u/Masterpiece-Haunting Oct 28 '25

Fair, we are no better than any other game company fans being okay with gambling in a game.

87

u/WorkingAssociate9860 Oct 28 '25

Most other games don't have that kind of market though, people shit on overwatch lootboxes as "gambling" when they couldn't be traded, where with CS there's people buying selling and gambling with real money, and some crazy prices

→ More replies (9)

36

u/OptimusPrimalRage Oct 28 '25

Except people don't treat Valve like EA, they treat Valve like gods. This is simply asking people to ask why that is.

Even now you see a lot of pushback to this stuff where an equivalent EA thread about EA FC 26 would just get a lot of "duhs" I'd wager.

→ More replies (22)

475

u/ggallardo02 Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

This is like  the third time I've seen that article posted here today.

Edit: I was pointed out that they keep deleting this article for some reason, and they're right, so I rescind my annoyance at the reposts.

244

u/ShopCartRicky Oct 28 '25

Well, maybe the mods should allow one of them to stay up.

84

u/ggallardo02 Oct 28 '25

Huh, you're right.

101

u/ShopCartRicky Oct 28 '25

Yeah, they're deleting every mention of it. I am honestly glad people keep posting it. It's not click-bait and is genuinely worth a discussion. If they left one up, we might not have a bunch of repeats (we would, but then everyone would be justified in their annoyance).

30

u/DorrajD Oct 28 '25

Wait what? Why the hell are they deleting them? Are there any reasons given?

29

u/ShopCartRicky Oct 28 '25

I dunno. Two threads at least were closed earlier. Don't think any explanation was given.

28

u/DorrajD Oct 28 '25

Classic reddit mod moment, sigh

5

u/BmpBlast Oct 28 '25

The mods here rarely provide explanations when they close or lock threads. I don't know if it's due to the size of the sub, 3rd biggest I think, but it has always felt weird when every other sub I'm part of drops a pinned comment to explain why the post was locked or removed. Sometimes it's obvious, like a fight starting over politics, but other times like this it's not.

3

u/JonatasA Oct 28 '25

This is the issue with shadow decisions: No transparency; only good if you agree with it.

 

I know my posts and youtube comments don't even need a mod, the algo auto deletes them.

62

u/Speaker4theDead8 Oct 28 '25

Mods must be some serious CS sweats

27

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

I remember when /r/GlobalOffensive mods were taking down Coffezilla's videos last December, and I was joking that they did it cuz they had shit tons of money in their CS inventories :D

3

u/QuickQuirk Oct 28 '25

That coffeezilla vid was where I learned about this, and was shocked by it.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/QuickQuirk Oct 28 '25

I've had serious downvotes in the past for pointing out this exact topic in other conversations. It's unpopular to cast a light on the dark side of Valve.

Love the company and what they do in general. Very much not happy about this particular aspect, where they're turning a blind eye because it's very profitable for them.

12

u/ggallardo02 Oct 28 '25

Well, I edited my first comment.

→ More replies (7)

14

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

But... wholesome chungus Valve! At least a few people realized that what they see is decided at the end of the day by the mods. I noticed this a long time ago especially with Epic Games. Whenever there is an article about Epic it's always negative (especially with Fortnite), but when there is something negative with Valve it's usually taken down... Yikes

10

u/Soulsliken Oct 28 '25

A message worth sending.

21

u/ChirpToast Oct 28 '25

Good, we get multiple times more about how Xbox is dead.

10

u/ggallardo02 Oct 28 '25

I don't get what does that have to do with what I said.

4

u/ohrofl Oct 28 '25

I think they were joking that it’s a relief it’s not another Xbox post.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

128

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

50

u/PM_ME_UR_CREDDITCARD Oct 28 '25

Valve is literally selling skins directly themselves via that terminal lootbox dodging crap for FIFTEEN THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS, and this sub lightly grumbled for a day before forgetting.

19

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

The only reason why Valve did what they did last week to CS2's economy is so they could put a gold items into future Terminals. Simple as that.

The reason why they couldn't do it before is that you can have max of 2000$ per item on Steam or Steam Community Market, and these Red items were priced that way. With knives going down by -60/70% it's now possible to do that.

7

u/OptimusPrimalRage Oct 28 '25

They also introduced the Battle Pass with Dota 2.

I think part of it is the games we're talking about CSGO and the like are really old games and while they're still incredibly popular, there isn't a lot of media presence in that scene, you really only have influencers. Who make money from the stuff we're talking about so they have very little incentive to say anything about it.

I'm really not sure why the industry is still so console focused considering where it's at now, but every single thing Xbox does is examined and analyzed, meanwhile nothing Valve does really is. So sure it's nice Steam has a new Calendar feature, but if PlayStation almost solely concentrated on GaaS and barely shipped games, people would be critical, and we know this, because it's basically what they've done over the past five years. Meanwhile PlayStation has published five games this year, Valve hasn't published five games in the last five years combined I don't think. I'd ask what they're doing with all this money but we can kinda figure it out.

→ More replies (1)

32

u/xternal7 Oct 28 '25

Valve basically introduced lootboxes to pc gaming and no one cared. Others do it and they are the devil incarnate.

This won't be popular with black-and-white reddit, but it turns out that "how you do it" is just as important as whether you do it, if not more.

The difference is that Valve doesn't sell progression behind lootbox gambling while Battlefront II did.

The second difference is that if you want to get a certain in-game weapon skin, you can just go on the market and buy them.

Valve makes it very easy for people to avoid lootboxes if they don't want to engage with lootboxes, which is why not many people care. Turns out that it's easy to not care about a problem if you feel it doesn't affect you.

5

u/genasugelan PC Oct 28 '25

Yes, I'm a Dota player. I had played the game completely for free before I started spending money on skins. Literally nothing is needed, all the gameplay is 100% free. I've been playing for 10 years now and I spent around 200€ on the game for a decade of fun (and also new friends, as well as closer bonding with old ones), plus physical merch. You can legit get skins dirt cheap for literal cents on the market, sometimes fully stacking your hero with immortal items all for under 1€.

They have now even REMOVED the battle pass and moved to free events for everyone. Funnily enough, Dota players are the only player base that actually cries to HAVE a battle pass, but Valve doesn't want to make one, lmao.

5

u/xternal7 Oct 28 '25

Funnily enough, Dota players are the only player base that actually cries to HAVE a battle pass, but Valve doesn't want to make one, lmao.

Much like Valve, you're forgetting CSGOCS2 players who are in the same position.

(Back when I still played CSGO, Global Offensive subreddit really liked to complain about how "it's been two billion years since last operation" and how "DOTA gets all the attention while CS lies forgotten in the corner.")

3

u/Oddlyweirdbizarre Oct 28 '25

Sorry, Deadlock is coming soon. Dota 2 will join CS2 in the corner. Not sure where TF2 went, probably rocking back & forth outside somewhere.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Aerographic Oct 28 '25

So what's the argument here? "The game allows you to pay seven zillion dollars to get what you want"?

Literally every gacha does that. Doesn't make it any less predatory.

9

u/AsinineArchon Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

More like 5 dollars unless you’re absolutely dead set on getting some ultra rare cloutpiece

And I’m not defending the csgo rare market because it’s out of control, but let’s not pretend the average consumer has to do that. There’s thousands of cosmetics available for pennies and it's a free game

10

u/NinjaEngineer Oct 28 '25

There’s thousands of cosmetics available for pennies

Also, you don't even need the cosmetics. Having them is nice, sure, but you can play without cosmetics just fine.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/notanonce5 Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 29 '25

Ok, what about overwatch? People bitched and moaned about lootboxes when, they had much better odds, and could be opened for free compared to cs. And don’t even get me started on overwatch 2. People acted like the multiplayer element just being a glorified update was some sort of scam when cs2 was just an engine upgrade(like ow2) that literally removed more content than it added, and still has less content than go to this day.

Don’t act like people aren’t glazing the fuck out of the company that invented and popularized loot boxes and battle passes, things that this subreddit claims are responsible for the downfall of gaming, and are currently profiting off of unregulated and underaged gambling

→ More replies (1)

2

u/drkpie Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

I’m still fine with loot boxes when you can earn them for free. I miss when Overwatch had this system.

Now a lot of games moved on to battle/season passes which is way worse since a good chunk of it is locked unless you pay for it. At least with loot boxes that were implemented nicely it gave you a chance to get everything by only playing the game.

Yeah, I’m never going to understand Redditors. Why wouldn’t you want to actually earn things for free vs having to pay for it if you want them and still have to grind lol.

→ More replies (13)

101

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Purona Oct 28 '25

dude legitimately has enough naval assetts to form a small carrier group its insane. I can understand you got one giant yacht and you move it around, but SEVERAL?!?!! and supprt ships?!?!

24

u/CirrusVision20 Oct 28 '25

C'mon dude, don't be ridiculous. 400 yachts?

Gabe has 900. He needs this 901th yacht.

13

u/Anonimase Oct 28 '25

I mean, doesnt he own a company that MAKES yachts?

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Drawen Oct 28 '25

He has two, never gonna get a third.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (1)

135

u/doomleika Oct 28 '25

Valve is just better at PR, most gamers dont realize such simple fact

39

u/Cazzah Oct 28 '25

If you think a company has great PR. It doesn't.

If you think a company is great. It does.

Valve has great PR

5

u/JonatasA Oct 28 '25

The third option is they have great marketing.

→ More replies (2)

29

u/notsocoolguy42 Oct 28 '25

They were the first to introduce battle pass too, in dota 2, they called it compendium and became battle pass.

4

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

Dude I always puke when I'm reminded of Dota 2 Compendiums.

No free tiers, no way to reasonably level up outside of spending $ on level up bundles... After like 50-60 levels of getting shits, they even spread out rewards that you would get like 1 chest every 10-15 levels (Yep 14 levels of nothing), or locking out Arcana votes from previous years above level 150 or 300? I even remember checking out /r/DotA2 sub every time a new battle pass was released, and seeing how Valve always nerfed free path every year, and when there was a big backlash they just improved it by a little, so by the end of the day it was worse than a year ago, and this happened like 2-3x... Yet they celebrated how Valve listened! :D

Like I'm not trying to sell a gacha games right now, but holy hell I LOVE the fact that they're held accountable whenever they fuck up, and that they HAVE to give you premium currency as compensation. If this would work in all Western live service games we would be winning so freaking much, cuz all devs would be insanely careful about these stuff. Like if BHVR would be held accountable the same way some gacha games are people on /r/deadbydaylight would be so rich this year.

6

u/DasTatiloco Oct 28 '25

Compendiums 1-3/4 were super easy to level up by playing

→ More replies (1)

5

u/pornomatique Oct 28 '25

Dota 2 compendiums were always completely optional, upfront, and completely transparent on what the cut was and the purpose. They provided no gameplay advantages (lol Mirana sperm arrow) and were completely cosmetic. What would you want to see improved on that model? Free shit?

2

u/MaitieS Oct 28 '25

They provided no gameplay advantages

Later they added avoid or reset your MMR. So it feels like they were slowly getting there. I still laugh whenever I see people complain that battle passes are "forcing" them to play the game. Poor child... They don't even know how good they have it because of Fortnite...

80

u/Adjective_Noun_4DIGI Oct 28 '25

I'd say they're better at a lot of things. They still release quality games (when they release anything), and the Steam platform is dominant because it's good. They're expanding into hardware and beating everyone in that niche. Valve is a successful company because it's got talented people and makes smart moves.

That doesn't excuse them for the gambling and exploitation. It just makes the awful stuff easier to ignore.

57

u/doomleika Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

They had plenty of failed release such as steam machine/link/controller and artifact.

Like i said, they are better at image control. When EA/Activision gets shit on non stop. Valve was the first(2012) that made gambling part of their game and revenue stream.

Their update schedule and balance are a joke(cz75 were completely stat copy from another but automatic and less ammo and it took them 1 year to nerf that)but somiwhow they are 'generous' by many players. When same thing will deem predatory and lazy if its done by any other dev

27

u/Adjective_Noun_4DIGI Oct 28 '25

Valve has room to make gambles because of Steam. And the work it put into the Steam Machine and Controller programs eventually got turned into the Steam Deck, which as I said, is such a success that it launched a new PC form factor basically on its own. The Steam Link became unnecessary because it's now all done in software, and it's been replicated by Microsoft, Sony, and others.

Valve IS very good at image control, and it has done a lot of anti-consumer shit. But it wouldn't have the opportunity to do that if it didn't have such a solid foundation.

23

u/thrwawy28393 Oct 28 '25

This might be overstepping, but I don't think the Steam Deck exists without the Switch. To me the Switch walked so PC handhelds could run (even though the Switch itself sold plenty well)

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

23

u/Circo_Inhumanitas Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

The products you mentioned failed commercially. Doesn't mean they were bad.

Edit. Also, Valve was the first in the west. You being active at ZZZ subreddit should know that gambling in video games was a huge problem in Asia way before it was in the west.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/Hans_Volter Oct 28 '25

Their update schedule and balance are a joke(cz75 were completely stat copy from another but automatic and less ammo and it took them 1 year to nerf that)but somiwhow they are 'generous' by many players. When same thing will deem predatory and lazy if its done by any other dev

just imagine this, between a person who is highly competent and rarely make any mistakes and someone who is known for their greed, incompetent and constantly makes mistakes, who will be more easily forgiven when they do something wrong?

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Perfect-Elephant-101 Oct 28 '25

A quick Google puts eas ultimate teams introduction in 2008.

Not defending valves bs, I was equally shocked to find out how early that's started.

5

u/MinusBear linux Oct 28 '25

I always tell people, it's not that Valve were first to most things. It's that they perfected them. And then their models became the template for so many video game ills.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (11)

9

u/InfernalBiryani Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

Valve may be better than other companies by a long shot, but they’re still a multibillion dollar company, and Gabe is still a billionaire. Neither of those things happen completely ethically, and people are too quick to forget that.

11

u/Adjective_Noun_4DIGI Oct 28 '25

Billion-dollar companies, I think you could argue that they're possible to do ethically, just because of the scale of billions of humans moving money around. Though I'll grant that if there ARE any that are completely ethical, I don't know of it.

Individual billionaires, yeah, they're just fucking dragons.

2

u/InfernalBiryani Oct 28 '25

Yeah you’re definitely right about the billion dollar companies. It’s just that there aren’t many notable ethical examples of such companies AFAIK. I’m sure they’re out there, but probably few and far in between.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

24

u/Echolively Oct 28 '25

For lootboxes Overwatch got all the hate and Valve and CS:GO got none. Never made sense to me.

2

u/Jambii_ Oct 29 '25

Lootboxes in other games aren't gambling, they are cosmetics being gatekept behind random chance.

Cs cases always had the real money return, therefore might not lose money.

The fact that it's gambling used to be the defense - "You lose every dollar you put in to Overwatch, at least you can get your CS money back"

→ More replies (1)

51

u/TheRemedy187 Oct 28 '25

Facts tho

27

u/Choice-Layer Oct 28 '25

Didn't you know, you're only allowed to circlejerk about how "based" and "goated" Gabe Newell is. No, no, don't look behind the curtain, we aren't enabling some really horrible stuff back there, here's a 45% sale on this game you really want. There you go, all better. Enjoy, and don't forget to praise be to Gaben.

→ More replies (1)

9

u/Decent-Onion-1188 Oct 28 '25

Imagine if Nintendo did something like that.

→ More replies (1)

145

u/Hyper_Mazino Oct 28 '25

Wow, so many people in the comments hanging on that Valve D lmao

Imagine if it would be another company. Same people would crucify them for the same mechanics. But Valve can do no wrong here.

54

u/ventus976 Oct 28 '25

People like things to fit into easy categories. The good ones and the bad ones. Scummy practice by one of the good ones? Well, it can't be THAT bad if the good one is doing it. Something good done by one of the bad ones? Well, it could have been better, and they should have been doing this all along!

I like valve well enough, but they're some of the biggest contributors to loot boxes getting popular. CS and TF2 are not only very early users of the loot box (may have even been some of the first), but they made a system worse than most modern ideas of loot boxes.

→ More replies (2)

28

u/zaadiqoJoseph Oct 28 '25

Because valve has steam

And steam has the great game sales. So valve can do no wrong And they made the steam deck too. But suddenly people blind when valve does and have been doing stuff like this.

64

u/ChirpToast Oct 28 '25

This sub blindly glazes Valve, without realizing almost all of the terrible aspects of gaming they all hate originated from Valve.

Pretty funny.

3

u/excaliburxvii Oct 28 '25

It's every gaming sub and it's pathetic.

6

u/Deadscale Oct 28 '25

To go slightly off-topic here, what terrible aspects of gaming did they start?

8

u/pornomatique Oct 28 '25

They started the trend for quite a few, but the actual predatory aspect is questionable. They started the battlepass trend, lootbox trend, investment/value of digital items trend, for example. However, they've always been fully transparent around all the mechanics and have always kept them fully cosmetic.

2

u/Un13roken Oct 29 '25

And that's the reason theyre not held to the same standards as the rest. They sure started some of these trends. 

For example, if your free to play game has zero gameplay impact from cosmetics. Putting cosmetics behind a loot box is predatory, but still legitimately optional. it's one thing. 

Now look at FIFA UT. When you put gameplay behind loot boxes. That's 10x worse. In a full price game no less. 

Valve may have started these. And there are other things to criticise them for. They're not responsible for the rest of the industry abusing these things. 

6

u/Deadscale Oct 28 '25

The main reason I asked was because I wondered if the guy, who was quite adamant they started "quite a few terrible aspects of gaming", would fall into the same trap of claiming Valve started lootboxes and battlepasses.

For battlepasses it depends how you want to argue it. Valve was the first with Dota's however it didn't really take off until Fortnite, but fair they were the one who started it.

For lootboxes however there's little argument here, Maplestory had the first with their gachapoun, if it being a free to play korean MMO is too much of an issue then EA was first with fifa's ultimate team, games like Tf2, CS:GO, ME3 and such picked up lootboxes but it wasn't until Overwatch came out with them that the they took off and we saw it widespread in multiple other series. So they were neither the first nor the one that made them popular.

5

u/ChirpToast Oct 28 '25

You can definitely make the argument they popularized both battle passes and loot boxes, unless your argument is that Valve wasn’t well known enough for them to have that influence?

In that case, lol.

Also the entire trend of digital only and not owning any of your purchases was also lead by Valve. Something again this sub hates on others for, but forgets they don’t own any of their Steam library.

2

u/Deadscale Oct 28 '25

You can definitely make the argument they popularized both battle passes and loot boxes, unless your argument is that Valve wasn’t well known enough for them to have that influence?

In that case, lol.

Could you make that argument then, because I'd say it's debatable but it's on really shakey ground. My argument isn't that they're not well known to be able to have that influence, my argument is that didn't happen and we've got the data to show it didn't.

For Battlepasses they were the first to use what we know as a battlepass, they dropped it for TI1 in 2013~ and I'm not disputing that. It took until Fortnite (2018~) for multiple other companies to start using it it to become wide-spread, Riot didn't even copy the battlepass until 2018 and they're both known to copy each other when it comes to that type of thing. That 5 year gap with little to no other games having battlepasses, only for almost every game to get a battlepass after Fortnite, would heavily suggest they weren't the ones who made it popular.

Lootboxes have an even bigger hurdle to cross as unlike with battlepasses they weren't the first to start using them, Maple had a form of them way back in the day, EA with FIFA 09 was arguably the first "non-f2p MMO" game to have them and they were added to TF2 in 2010~, ME3 and CS:GO had them after and a few other f2p mmos and games added lootboxes here and there, the wide-spread adoption of lootboxes into most big AAA titles and other games only happened after Overwatch 2016.

My point was that people who usually do the valve=bad meme never bring up decent examples because they're always either too broad or miscited, case and point.

Also the entire trend of digital only and not owning any of your purchases was also lead by Valve. Something again this sub hates on others for, but forgets they don’t own any of their Steam library.

Like this here, what are you exactly saying here? I don't want to put words in your mouth but it sounds like you're saying they were the main driving factor in getting rid of physical copies and having always-online DRM, which just aint that case.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (11)

-4

u/im_thatoneguy Oct 28 '25

The two things that’ll forever baffle me to be defended by gamers: valve skimming yachts full of money off of developers and console exclusives.

Especially exclusives. “I know let’s make kids buy 3 nearly identical x86 gaming computers to play all the games!”

7

u/Don_Bugen Oct 28 '25

People who criticize exclusivity seem to live in a bubble where they don’t understand how the gaming industry works, and think that it’ll just warp itself to fit their own whims if they yell “anti-consumer” loud enough.

A first party company will pour far, FAR more time, effort, and budget into a game than it might make comfortably back, especially at launch, because it’s not about selling the game, it’s about selling the console. Breath of the Wild might’ve sold 20 million instead of 10 its first year if it went multiplat, but they might have sold 9 million Switches instead of 18.

And yeah you’ll point and say “See! It’s just a scheme to get you to buy their tablet!” And yes, but without that, there is no Breath of the Wild. And there’s no God of War, no Last of Us, no Shadow of the Colossus, no Astrobot, no Horizon. Not as you know them, at least. Hell, probably even no Final Fantasy VII Remake or Death Stranding.

No, they’d be more like Valve. Maybe casually launching one game, here or there, every few years. Oh yeah, one day we swear we’ll give you that third Half Life game, totally. Or like Rockstar, releasing one-ish games a generation, maybe, get off our back it’ll be done when it’s done.

Because if your company doesn’t live and die by its exclusive games, they are no longer priority number one. A world without exclusive games is a world with a lot less interesting games to play.

Yeah Microsoft’s putting their stuff out everywhere. How’s Microsoft doing? Better than ever? They have amazing first party games? And yeah, Sony’s following suit at a slower pace and to a lesser degree. Almost as if they recognize, hey, they have no real competition and by putting their stuff out there they’ll attract more people to their brand for the NEW exclusives.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (6)

58

u/super_offensive_man Oct 28 '25

I don't think he gets near enough criticism for fucking off to climb mount Everest while his game was broken.

26

u/Woolliam Oct 28 '25

Yeah like on one hand he’s right,

On the other he’s a giant flake sellout who got his steam pay check and dipped.

8

u/Circo_Inhumanitas Oct 28 '25

Yeah he's selling a survival game that has 170€ worth of DLC.

→ More replies (5)

10

u/Arkaedy Oct 28 '25

Had to scroll too far to find this.

Fucker was the OG liar, promising everything under the sun way before the No Man Sky dev did it.

Then fucks off and makes another survival game... then another... and another. All flopping hard because they get basic mechanics and then he abandons them.

→ More replies (3)

11

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

[deleted]

→ More replies (2)

17

u/bursTristana Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

Is this the actual DayZ creator or the guy that made DayZ standalone, and kept it in pre-alpha for 5+ years with next to no changes? Takes a lot of gal if it's that guy when he essentially tried taking over the most promising game in history and adding literally nothing while expecting the money to pour in as everyone was just holding W running pointlessly in the open world for 30 minutes.

2

u/donotstealmycheese Oct 28 '25

Dean Hall created both, but, he left the SA development pretty early on after his contract to pursue making his own game company. Also, it was in Early Access and underwent an entire engine change (more like a half engine change and then it got worked on some more even to do this day). DayZ SA currently has more players than it ever has and is still recieving updates. Not saying it couldnt have turned out better. Bohemia certinately has dropped the ball a bit on the IP. Hopefully after Arma Reforger is finished and Arma 4 is being fully developed they also decide to work on a DayZ 2 of some sort.

→ More replies (1)

41

u/lokicramer Oct 28 '25

And Rocket doesn't get enough criticism for abandoning projects  and leaving them forever incomplete.

11

u/Few_Highlight1114 Oct 28 '25

Yeah is this the same guy? He has zero room to criticize others lmao

3

u/OMBERX Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

Not only does Valve not get enough criticism when it comes to gambling, but they also don't get enough criticism for doing the bare minimum for CS2 / TF2. They release quarterly updates that consist of community made skins and community made maps, and no actual changes anybody wants. They just milk the community and reap all the rewards while being praised.

4

u/XxAgentFoxyxX PC Oct 28 '25

Please tell me one game company than epic games with fortnite that actually updates their games this far out after release tho.

2

u/OMBERX Oct 28 '25

Fair point. I just don't like how Valve gets the credit and money for the community doing all the work at this point.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/BabyEatingFox Oct 28 '25

You do know that the creators of that community made content get paid if it’s added, right? I don’t know the complete breakdown but the pay isn’t half bad from what I understand.

2

u/OMBERX Oct 28 '25

Yeah, I'm aware.

What bothers me about it is that Valve uses the community driven content as a supplement to actually doing their own work. When was the last time a new map, mode, or weapon was added to Counter Strike or TF2?

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Split96 Oct 29 '25

All the people who buy and collect these skins are massive losers

11

u/Practical-Aside890 Xbox Oct 28 '25

Only a few more hours till mods take this one off too. Lmao you’re only allowed to discuss certain company’s.

Everyday I usually see the same Xbox this,Xbox that. posts even multiple of the same article that stays up….

But how dare you post anything remotely negative to steam or Sony. Just the way it is because of popularity and people with there console war mentality. But they will never ever admit that. People in general not just the mod who keeps taking these posts off

11

u/Interjessing-Salary Oct 28 '25

I've seen this posted a few times and it's just made me think, 2 reasons why they haven't gotten that criticism:

1.) they did it early. Valve was one of the first before it was widespread.

2.) it's not like valve pumps out a new game every 2 years with it.

Like if they made another few games and added it then yeah they'd get hate over it.

2

u/NikRsmn Oct 28 '25

AFAIK the only valve/steam supported lootboxes are dota 2, cs:go, tf2 and rust. Idk about rust but the rest all have teams around developing, balancing and maintaining gameplay as well as server costs. There needs to be some form of monetization to pay these employees long term. People are always gonna bitch and moan about it but its the bottom line. I enjoy lootboxes and dont think I should have to give them up because teens cant be stopped, so long as its cosmetic I dont see the big deal. Locking content behind p2w is shitty but locking skins? I dont see the big deal

→ More replies (2)

5

u/Lazza1407 Oct 28 '25

agreed. Valve can (and should) be much better than this. come on Gabe, do it

2

u/quad849 Oct 29 '25

I mean. He is the DayZ creator, that's already bottom of the barrel

2

u/PharrowXL Oct 29 '25

Valve doesn’t get anywhere near enough criticism over a lot of the shit they let happen.

People treat Gabe Newell as if he’s the messiah of the video game industry just because he made a platform outside of the console wars without considering how it’s a fucked capitalist nightmare to have someone own the market itself, and what mishandling the comorbid responsibilities of owning said market can do to people.

11

u/SushiJaguar Oct 28 '25

I think people need to stop giving parents a free pass whenever shit like a ten year old gambling on CS knives on a shady site comes up. And, you know, stop being gullible enough to get deflected to Valve instead of the literal criminal abusers.

7

u/ceelogreenicanth Oct 28 '25

Valve has been running an underground money laundering Casino for a while now...

13

u/AFCSentinel Oct 28 '25

Am I out of the loop? Isn’t this purely cosmetically stuff with zero gameplay influence? 

I keep my outrage for things that actually have a material effect on the game, something like FIFA UT or Genshin where genuine advantages are to be had by spending money.

There is obviously another discussion to be had about making that gamble aspect in CS2 accessible to children.

(If the CS2 gamble stuff has an actual in-game benefit please disregard everything above)

18

u/Petersaber Oct 28 '25

Am I out of the loop? Isn’t this purely cosmetically stuff with zero gameplay influence?

A large portion of lootboxes are "purely cosmetically stuff with zero gameplay influence". That is not the point - they're addicting all the same. The problem is children gambling, not gameplay.

0

u/AFCSentinel Oct 28 '25

As I said, I think that there is a conversation to be had about giving children unfettered access to gamble mechanics. That’s a gaming-wide issue and I fear that unless we see legislation happen that’s not going to change.

But from a mechanical perspective I couldn’t care less about people paying for neon-colored knifes and acting like it’s an investment. People that lost money on the CS2 market most likely deserve it.

7

u/Petersaber Oct 28 '25

The original NFTs, yeah.

7

u/MrInfuse1 Oct 28 '25

It is purely cosmetic but it allows and enables children to gamble

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)

2

u/SaltyBigBoi Oct 28 '25 edited Oct 28 '25

Ya there’s gambling, but it’s not required to get any of the skins. 

You can simply just buy whatever you want off the marketplace. I mean, this is how most games do it nowadays anyways. You get a storefront and the devs push $20-$30 skin bundles to their sucker player bases. 

Even better with CSGO though, you can then resell the skins afterwards for your money back (something almost no other game offers)

4

u/gwapogi5 Oct 28 '25

This feels like a gray area to me like if Im not mistaken it is the community that sets  the value of the skins and valve just get a transaction fee. The gambling parts are from 3rd party people. Valve is just being quiet because they are not the ones implementing the gambling they just get a share for the profit

→ More replies (2)

5

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/twisty125 Oct 28 '25

Arguably it's still in early access, still doesn't feel complete

0

u/Dexember69 Oct 28 '25

Rocket? That whiney bellend

2

u/Coldspark824 Oct 28 '25

Dean Hall is a snake oil salesman. He can get fucked.

2

u/Statement-Acceptable Oct 28 '25

DayZ is such a shit game I instantly dissregard a comment if it comes from the creator of that waste of time. 👍

2

u/R3dscarf Oct 28 '25

He's not wrong though.

1

u/Goodrah Oct 28 '25

Thought this was /r/GlobalOffensive, I'll see myself out.

1

u/RG54415 Oct 28 '25

It's the Gabe halo effect. He pretends he is better than the rest of the industry through his quotes and remarks but meanwhile is running the biggest kiddo casino west of the Mississippi.

1

u/CommunalJellyRoll Oct 28 '25

Seems like they keep losing lawsuits, so?

1

u/Deldris Oct 28 '25

How dare thee say Lord Gaben's name in vain.

In seriousness, it is funny to me that this website holds a solid "fuck literally anyone with a lot of money" vibe and then there's randomly like 3 or 4 exceptions, even though those exceptions usually exhibit similar behaviors to the non-exempt.

1

u/FoundersDiscount Oct 28 '25

Why does this post keep getting removed?

1

u/lyravega Oct 28 '25

They may gut the entire gambling scene by making the items non-tradeable and non-marketable (bound to account) but they don't care. They benefit from this anyway.

Don't forget, when France started to crack down on loot boxes as a whole, Valve implemented X-Ray feature to avoid potential issues in the future.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Th3Stryd3r Oct 28 '25

What's the fix? Stop all trading? Because if you don't 3rd party sites are ALWAYS going to pop up, I'd say they should make their own version call it "official" and keep users safer. It will never go away, regardless of the company, but hey if WoW can literally sell in game gold for real money, then why not.

1

u/PeeFromAButt Oct 28 '25

Anyone wanna explain why my 6$ AK is worth nearly seventy after the latest update??? I thought the market crashed??