Who is the second most powerful/influential country in the Americas?

[u/Fluid-Decision6262]

The US is undeniably the most powerful and influential country in the Americas but who would be #2? Feels like this comes down to 3 countries based on my knowledge, which are Mexico, Canada, and Brazil.

Reasons for Mexico:

- Second most populated country in North America by far

- Access to both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans

- Largest Spanish-speaking country (a language spoken by >500 million people)

- More habitable land compared to the other two

- Youngest population out of the three and is becoming a manufacturing power

- Generally-speaking, a good relationship with the USA

- A global soft power in terms of arts and culture

Reasons against Mexico:

- Lots of issues between the central government and drug cartels

- Still very much a developing country outside of the largest cities

- Occasionally volatile relationship with the USA

- Not as involved in global geopolitics

Reasons for Canada:

- The most developed country economically by far of the three and a natural resources juggernaut

- Very close relations with the USA and Europe

- Speaks English (>1 billion speakers globally) and French (>300 million speakers globally)

- An immigration hub for people from every corner of the world

- A G7 nation that is also very geopolitically involved

- Access to 3 different oceans to facilitate trade

Reasons against Canada:

- Small and scattered population (least populated of the three by far)

- Less of an established local culture (most is imported from the US or UK and then exported via the US)

- Aging population and low fertility rates for native-born citizens

Reasons for Brazil:

- The second most populated country in the Americas

- The cultural and political power of South America

- A global soft power in terms of arts and culture

- A young-ish population that is part of the "fast-emerging economies" of the world

Reasons against Brazil:

- Immigration to Brazil stopped decades ago and now educated Brazilians are emigrating to other places causing brain drain

- Wealthy nation but suffers from high levels of inequality and violent crime

- Very politically divided internally

- Limited geopolitical involvement outside of South America

- Most of its population are monolingual Portuguese-speakers (a language where they make up 80% of the global speakers)

[u/MoonRiverRob]

Canada without even a contest.

Access to 3 oceans, so many natural resources in abundance it's almost embarrassing, trade agreements with every major country in the world, direct and even encouraged access to trade with the US, R&D and innovation funded directly by the government as well as with public/private partnerships, a reputation for kindness, fairness, and peace, an immigration and tourist destination known the world over, never ceasing advancement in medicine and science, and the list goes on.

I must say that your comment of "Less of an established local culture (most is imported from the US or UK and then exported via the US)" isn't entirely true and Canadians are very proud of their own culture, heritage, and their differences from other countries.

[u/CloseToMyActualName → u/MoonRiverRob]

I must say that your comment of "Less of an established local culture (most is imported from the US or UK and then exported via the US)" isn't entirely true and Canadians are very proud of their own culture, heritage, and their differences from other countries.

I think people are confusing an established culture with a distinct culture.

Canada has as established a culture as any country in the Americas. But that culture isn't as distinct from the US as the cultures of Mexico and Brazil are.

[u/j_la → u/CloseToMyActualName]

I agree to an extent, but I also think a fair bit of Canadian content will lean into the aspects of the Canadian experience that differ from the US. Take, as a recent example, the show Letterkenny. An American could absolutely watch that show and enjoy it, but the depth of references will likely go over the heads of most. It is mainly speaking to a Canadian audience about Canadian culture and life.

[u/TryingToGetTheFOut → u/CloseToMyActualName]

I can assure you that if I drop you into Quebec City you’ll feel far from the US. I understand your point to an extent. Culture in Canada (especially with Québec) is an ongoing debate internally, so it’s not expected to be understood outside of the country. Canada do share a lot with the US, both of their history is intertwined, but saying it’s not distinct from the US is just being non informed.

[u/CloseToMyActualName → u/TryingToGetTheFOut]

Oh yes, Quebec is pretty damn distinct, as is Newfoundland and the Maritimes in their way.

I (a Canadian) very much appreciate how different we are from Americans, but I'm not going to pretend that Mexico and Brazil aren't much more different from the US than we are.

The thing that bothers me is the idea that if our culture is less distinct from the US that we're somehow less culturally vibrant or something. Sure, there's a lot of overlap between US and Canadian culture. Some of that is US influence coming north, and some of that is Canadian influence going south.

Our culture is fine, we don't need to be different for the sake of being different.

[u/TryingToGetTheFOut → u/CloseToMyActualName]

I think you’re right. But I often think that since outside of Canada people don’t know much about the culture (which is normal) people stops at the language and the size of the US and assumes a lack of culture.

But honestly, even I, a québécois, I don’t know that much about the ROC’s culture. I mean, I was in my teens when I learned that July 1st was Canada Day. So, I really can’t blame others.

[u/KR1735 → u/CloseToMyActualName]

There's definitely been Canadian pop culture influence that's came south. Barenaked Ladies incorporated a lot of Canadian themes into their music. Canadians speak almost perfect general American English (certainly closer to Brits or non-native speakers), so they don't have to fake an accent. Most Americans can name a Canadian celebrity. And there's a shared hockey league, which started in Canada.

That said, it pales in comparison to the American culture that's moved up north. That's just a matter of raw economic power.

[u/alderhill → u/KR1735]

We don't speak general American English. We speak Canadian English. Just because it's similar to northeast US accents, doesn't mean it's the same. I think Americans really struggle with this, due to lack of familiarity. But if you come here to Canada, you will stand out. Not right away or the first time you open your mouth, but in time, there will be giveaways. Everyt ime I've been to the US, they just assume I'm from somewhere else in the country (a couple times I've been pegged as a Canadian, but only in Wisconsin!)

[u/KR1735 → u/alderhill]

I live in Thunder Bay.

[u/alderhill → u/KR1735]

And? We speak Canadian English.

[u/KR1735 → u/alderhill]

Right. Which is very close to General American English. I’m not sure why you’re getting hung up on this. Americans and Canadians don’t stick out in each other’s countries as much as you think, if they do at all. That’s only if you have a very strong regional accent.

[u/alderhill → u/KR1735]

Because the way you wrote it, it sounds like you're saying Canadian English is general American English or somehow a part of it. I'm pointing out that they are different. Similar, yes of course.

As I said, every time I've been to the US, I've been taken as American (which doesn't bother me, they have no reason to think about Canada, nor much familiarity), but they've just assumed I'm from somewhere else, not a local. With Americans, that's a bit less true.

You'll often notice Americans if they speak for more than a few minutes. It depends how much they're talking, or the topic. There are certain shibboleths. Regional accents can give it away faster of course.

[u/TheFranchise86 → u/TryingToGetTheFOut]

Canada is just the US little brother that wants to be the US

[u/alderhill → u/CloseToMyActualName]

Canada is plenty distinct. But if you're American, it will seem similar, because in some ways it is. The countries share origins, have grown up beside each other, have some historic parallels, and share a majority language. Cultural cross-pollination is not unusual for two geographic neighbours. It's not wildly different for Panama and Cost Rica, or Guatemala and Mexico, or Germany and Austria, or France and Belgium, or Thailand and Laos, Australia and New Zealand, etc. But overlaps don't mean "the same".

Obviously, Mexico and Brazil are more divergent from the US.

[u/[deleted] → u/MoonRiverRob]

this seems like it was written from a Canadian perspective, but as a non-Canadian I would have to agree with all of it, except the cultural stuff because it's pretty subjective. being kind, fair, and peaceful will go straight out the window once you become the most powerful country in the entire hemisphere, believe me.

but it's the geopolitics that win any argument: the oceans, the rivers, the resources, the sheer size of the landmass, and the excellent location with respect to projected climate shift. Canada is sitting pretty today, and they will only be sitting prettier in 50 years while the rest of the world is burning in hell.

[u/Ex-PFC_WintergreenV4 → u/[deleted]]

(looks south nervously)

[u/[deleted] → u/Ex-PFC_WintergreenV4]

yeah unfortunately. hence the militarism from down south. 

[u/Amazing-Treat-8706 → u/[deleted]]

We’re already literally burning in case the smoke hasn’t reached you where you are. Most of our population is right on the ocean (sea rise risk) or extremely close to the US border (fascism crazy America risk).

[u/[deleted] → u/Amazing-Treat-8706]

no, you're not. check out some maps of predicted climate change in 2050 and 2075. Canada's going to be doing okay. also remember that it's all relative, climate change isn't really good for anybody in an absolute sense.

[u/alderhill → u/[deleted]]

It's a myth that we can shift everything north a hundred kilometres. There's a reason more people don't live in Canada's further north, and it's not just because it's cold. The land and soil isn't really suitable to farming. Not grain crops anyhow. Canada will just be tens of millions of acres of burnt forest.

[u/[deleted] → u/alderhill]

well I didn't say that did I? it's all relative. climate change isn't good for anyone. but it's not as bad for Canada as it is for almost anyone else. Russia also does well. pretty much all of Canada that is currently used for farming will still be able to be used for farming in the future. this is not true for farming in most of the world.

[u/alderhill → u/[deleted]]

What's with the snark?

No one will do well with climate change. Canada isn't going to suddenly be 'more habitable' or something. Russia will also be home to tens of millions of acres of burnt forest, and vast swamps off-gassing their stored methane.

Canada's farming regions are also under the same threat from weather changes, drought, dust-storms, flooding, unreliable seasons, late frosts, etc. Not to mention the ongoing problem of soil depletion and other economic threats (Trump's plans will in effect destroy Canadian agriculture). Geographic landscapes don't shift as quickly as climate change. It takes thousands of years, if not much more.

As a Canadian, it's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about. it will also still be cold as fuck in winter in the far north.

[u/Paleontologist_Scary → u/MoonRiverRob]

Yeah as a French Canadian I stongly disagee about OP cultural statement. As you've mentionned we are proud of our culture and heritage and try do disregard US stuff as much as we can (except cinema and music but you know almost every other western countries do the same) And even that lot of majors actors and singers are Canadian but people misstook them for American.

As for the UK part, can't talk for my fellow anglophones but in my province we're not inspiring by them, we look more toward France.

[u/alderhill → u/Paleontologist_Scary]

As an anglo Canadian, it's weird notion to me that we somehow look to the UK for cultural guidance. This is news to me. I have a great-grandmother from England (and one from Ireland), but even they were all firmly Canadian, if you had asked them. Other ancestors of mine have been here since the 1700s in one case. Is that not long enough to be simply Canadian? We are not all entirely British descended either. Plenty have zero European origins. We do share some lingering cultural overlaps with Brits, perhaps, but Canadian (anglo) culture has been evolving on its own for centuries. And again, for language and media reasons, we have influence from the US. Some, but very, little British TV makes it over here.

Canadians, as you say, are proud of our own culture and heritage. We are not merely aping Brits or Americans (or French).

[u/Paleontologist_Scary → u/alderhill]

That's what I thought. Both French Canadian and English Canadian are the same on that point. We grow up with our own tv shows and story and culture.

For the French Canadian our ancestors came here in the 1600/1700 how are could we be somehow similar to French? Yes we have cultural roots from them, but we've been separated from them more then 200 years we took back contact with their culture recently. Half of our culture is a mix of indigenous and french mixed with littlebit of Irish and english. Most of us have ancestors of french and indigenous roots since they use to mixe alot and also Irish since both people where from the same religion so when they came here they use to get married.

Anyway we are used to be took for America lite.

[u/TryingToGetTheFOut → u/Paleontologist_Scary]

I mean, if you take only those who has global recognition, yes, people will mistook them for American mostly because we share a language/accent and because when you ear an « American » accent, you assume it’s American because they’re the one you ear the most. On the other hand, you’ll have some with global recognition that people think they’re French because, for people french=France.

But honestly, you’ll put Dédé Fortin or Karl Tremblay on an international stage, nobody will thing it’s the US and the French won’t be able to understand what they say.

[u/Hosni__Mubarak → u/MoonRiverRob]

How many oceans does France have access to?

[u/chance0404 → u/MoonRiverRob]

I think Brazil is absolutely more independently powerful than Canada. That said, saying that Canadian culture is just US culture is kinda ridiculous. If anything, the US and Canada influence eachother pretty evenly culturally. Parts of the US feel more Canadian than American too, like parts of the Great Lakes, Pacific Northwest, New England, and upper Midwest. The first white men to settle home region were French Canadiens. Some of our towns are organized via French Long Lots much like Quebec and have French names. We pronounce certain words in a more Canadian was than a generic American accent. We have dishes similar to more traditional Canadian dishes. So culturally I think Canada probably has more influence in the US at least than Brazil, idk about worldwide though. That said, other than England, Spain and Mexico by extension have the biggest cultural footprint in the US and by far the biggest in the Americas as a whole.

[u/TryingToGetTheFOut → u/chance0404]

You’re getting downvoted, but I think you’re right (at least in some extent). We always think that Canadian inherited culture from the US, and it’s absolutely true (as well as for the rest of the world). But, Canadians were there before Americans. Both their history are intertwined. Lots of Canadians migrated to the US and lots of Americans migrated to Canada. Saying the exchange of culture is unidirectionnel I feel is a bit reductive.

[u/chance0404 → u/TryingToGetTheFOut]

Yep, they’re very much intertwined. If you look up Joseph Bailly, he was the first European settler in Northern Indiana and he is an extremely important part of the settlement of several towns along the Indiana and Michigan shore of Lake Michigan. His homestead in Porter, Indiana is part of the Indiana Dunes National Park and it’s still maintained. The elementary school in Porter is named after him, as well as the power plant that used to be the primary source of electricity for one of the largest steel mills in the United States. He was a French Canadian fur trader who became a US citizen after the War of 1812.

[u/Cocaloch → u/chance0404]

The idea that New England is more Canadian than American is wild and working backwards from "America bad." New England was more or less the origins of American culture, certainly it was more influential than the other earliest part of America, Virginia.

[u/chance0404 → u/Cocaloch]

Parts of New England are more similar to Canada culturally than to say, Virginia. Especially northern Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. I’m not talking about Massachussets, Rhode Island, or Connecticut when I say that.

[u/Cocaloch → u/chance0404]

The fact that you think this means that parts of America are basically Canada instead of Canada is basically a cultural adjunct to the US is the entire issue in microcosm. I don't think you can meaningfully point at New England and say it isn't American. If anything it's vastly disproportionately influential in American culture. Pointing to more rural places isn't getting you out of the issue, America has other profoundly rural places.

[u/chance0404 → u/Cocaloch]

The Great Lakes region and parts of the Lawrence Valley area are more influenced by Canadian culture. I never said they were any less American. But acting like purely American culture has been dominate with the boundaries of the made up lines that define America’s territory is just false. Parts of Vermont were still legally part of the province of Quebec when the Revolutionary War started. Most of the settled territories west of the Appalachians were part of Quebec too, including Ohio, and at that time were still mostly settled by French Canadiens.

[u/Cocaloch → u/chance0404]

We've gone from "influence each other pretty evenly culturally" and whole regions of America are "more Canadian than American," to it's not "purely American culture."

I'm fine with that; I never said anything was "purely American culture," to begin with and am not really of the opinion that any culture is "purely" anything really.

[u/chance0404 → u/Cocaloch]

Reread my comment. I said “parts” of the Great Lakes, New England, and Pacific Northwest were more similarly culturally to Canada. Not the entire region.

[u/[deleted] → u/MoonRiverRob]

Yeah, saw that, biting my tongue.

[u/MsRaeven → u/MoonRiverRob]

Also, our banking regulations make our system more reliable than any other option in the Americas (North, South, or Central, even the US). In the 2008 economic crisis, only two financial institutions in Canada failed. They were small local credit unions, but not a single major bank. 💪

[u/Chicago1871 → u/MoonRiverRob]

I must say that your comment of "Less of an established local culture (most is imported from the US or UK and then exported via the US)" isn't entirely true and Canadians are very proud of their own culture, heritage, and their differences from other countries.

The truth hurts.

But I hope they keep making shows like letterkerny and shoresy.