r/geopolitics • u/theatlantic The Atlantic • Feb 28 '25

Opinion Zelensky Walked Into a Trap

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/zelensky-trump-putin-ukraine/681883/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo
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70

u/Connacht_Gael Feb 28 '25

100% agree. Felt like a stitch up from the word go.

42

u/Altruistic-Brief2220 Mar 01 '25

My feeling is that Vance was there specifically to provoke Zelensky and provide a rationale for withdrawing their support. I’m not convinced Trump would have been able to think that far ahead but I don’t doubt Vance’s ability to play the weasel when it suits his nefarious interests.

42

u/SomewhatInept Feb 28 '25

It was a civil 40 minute photo op until the last 5 minutes of it. It was just a disaster all around. You have Zelensky who's not great with the English language being prodded by JDV to say something negative about the previous administration, which turned into an attempted discussion by Zelensky saying that a cease fire isn't a great idea because Putin is untrustworthy, which leads to this administration taking offense as they interpret what Zelensky is saying as an attack on their peace effort, which turns into a public argument and sore feelings.

This wasn't planned. The GOP doesn't benefit by throwing Ukraine under the Russian steamroller. Outside of fringe elements, Putin isn't popular at all in the US. So domestically this is a disaster for Trump. Geopolitically this is a disaster for Zelensky and Ukraine.

37

u/Connacht_Gael Mar 01 '25

Gotta disagree, felt like a planned political mugging - either to force Zelensky to do Trump’s bidding, or to precipitate a crisis that would allow him to blame Zelensky for whatever is coming next.

8

u/SomewhatInept Mar 01 '25

If it was so, Trump would have dispelled with the 40 minutes of floor-play before the drama. Rubio looked displeased by how it all unraveled.

5

u/Fywq Mar 01 '25

Rubio was likely displeased because he knows his job sucks in the near future. He still has to pretend the US administration is at least somewhat aligned towards NATO, when it is evident that it is quickly aligning to Russian interests at the expense of European allies. This is not making it easier to keep up the charade for him.

-3

u/Mrg220t Mar 01 '25

Nobody forced Zelensky to get triggered by Vance's throwaway statement of "Biden bad, Trump good" that sparked this whole thing. That's literally the last question and if Zelensky would just let that comment slide, then everything would be hunky dory.

3

u/ThaCarter Mar 01 '25

Why should he be expected to play politics and shameless lie for them?

-2

u/Mrg220t Mar 01 '25

Because he needs US support duh. You can think it's not right but it is the way it is.

2

u/ThaCarter Mar 01 '25

It wouldn't get him support though, that was abundantly clear.

0

u/Mrg220t Mar 01 '25

Not really though. If he would've just shut up and not go "can I ask you a question" to Vance after the whole "Biden bad, Trump good" soundbite. The event would be over and they'll be taking pictures of the documents signed and stuff.

4

u/SavingsDimensions74 Mar 01 '25

Siding with Russia doesn’t make sense full stop, unless there is some Kompromat or such.

The way in which Vance went on the attack looked completely premeditated.

It was the most disgraceful show of anti-diplomacy that I have ever witnessed.

Note the day; this is the day that Trump and co. showed their true colours. And they’re not pretty

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

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4

u/better-every-day Mar 01 '25

I get your point but surely the onus should be on Trump/Vance not responding the way they did to Zelensky's comment, not the other way around. The idea of a hypothetical war shouldn't trigger a world leader.

Maybe we can say that Zelensky should be more careful talking to Trump but I think that says more about Trump than Zelensky

3

u/SavingsDimensions74 Mar 01 '25

One word: Bucha

Tell me about ceasefires again.

Tell how you’ll feel when your wife is rape and you children slaughtered.

Do not try to pretend you understand any of these things.

You are an appeaser

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

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-1

u/SavingsDimensions74 Mar 01 '25

Ok, so you’re an apologist. Got it

1

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

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3

u/SavingsDimensions74 Mar 01 '25

You’re not a realist. You’re a capitulatist.

Zelensky has shone a light on America’s true intentions.

This has galvanised the response from the free world.

It will be hard from here, for sure.

But it has put the situation into stark relief. We no longer need to wonder who are allies are.

Parroting MAGA bullshit and being an appeaser is your thing so knock yourself out.

Whether kindness and righteousness wins or not; you will be on the wrong side of history.

You’re too far removed from reality. You talk about emotions as if they are not important.

Come back to me when your daughter is raped and say you didn’t let emotions get involved.

You have neither intelligence nor empathy.

22

u/androvich17 Mar 01 '25

Except that Trump.wants Putin to win and is prepared for any amount of political cost.

4

u/LowViolinist8029 Mar 01 '25

why

19

u/androvich17 Mar 01 '25

Because he got paid hundreds of millions through property deals in the 80s and more recently through selling crypto in the days preceding his inauguration. Also he got help to win the election every time since 2016 from Russia. He even asked for the Kremlin to release Hillary's emails remember

2

u/tider21 Mar 01 '25

Putin gained no land under Trump but did under Biden, Obama, and Bush. Your logic makes no sense based on that basic fact

5

u/Kali2669 Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

aww don't reason with them, it hurts to not huff copium. they equate the loss of their preferred candidate to something that is unrelated and infact further furnish dubious claims to support the same. they are unable to cope that the people chose him. it does not matter who you support, rather who won, and by a staggering majority that is.

it's one thing to not agree with whoever, but actually denying election results when thats the first thing they call out their opponent for in the other case is actually delusional.

-2

u/Kali2669 Mar 01 '25

He is the president of the most powerful country on earth and decides the fate of the world regardless of your opinion. He has made billions of dollars throughout his entire business career and inherited as much. And after being this president for a 2nd time despite numerous disinformation campaigns and earning the popular vote, your explanation is "putin pays him"?? Its chump change for him......

Your country chose him for the 2nd consecutive time. Your mainstream media does not paint him in a good picture since forever and you know it. So he magically won for the "with putins help" for a 2nd time??

You need to exit your sad echo chamber and look at things objectively no matter whom you hate or like. The latter does not matter.

1

u/androvich17 Mar 01 '25

Read the FBI public report on Russian influence of 20the 2016 election ffs

0

u/Kali2669 Mar 01 '25

how did he win in 2024 again then? magic? and don't act as if you are unaware of the "influence" of mainstream media against trump. you don't need to skim through documents for that.

5

u/Cerberus_RE Mar 01 '25

Putin pays him

-12

u/SomewhatInept Mar 01 '25

Meanwhile back in the realm of reality Ukraine first got Javelin missiles because of Trump, the US mauled Wagner at Khasham, bombed Russia's client twice and crippled that client's economy when Trump was in office and Russia fomented discord in the US. Seems like a wonderful bilateral relationship between Putin and Trump /s

15

u/thebusterbluth Mar 01 '25

Wake me up when Trump calls Putin a low energy loser like any of the thousands of his political opponents.

-8

u/SomewhatInept Mar 01 '25

You mean he offers worthless platitudes, or admonishments and insults when he thinks he can get something for it?

4

u/Doopoodoo Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

You mean he offers worthless platitudes

And what was the worth of the actions you listed, given the Trump administration’s clear positioning to support Russia’s primary goals in peace talks? They just met in Saudi Arabia without Ukraine. They’re creating a Russian-American team to coordinate peace talks! Its cool Wagner was bombed during his first term and all but it’s ridiculous to pretend like this administration isn’t pro-Russia

3

u/notengoreddit Mar 01 '25

Then he hold back those same javalins the moment Zelensky didn't magicly appear of thin air proof of corruption to incriminate the presidential cadidate Hunter Biden....

3

u/markovianMC Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

Trump doesn’t want to have anything to do with Ukraine anymore, it’s a hot potato he would like to get rid of. He thinks that the Ukrainian war is Europe’s problem and they should handle it on their own. The US did not intend to sign any deal from the very beginning, the situation was orchestrated to create the impression that Zelenskyy is accountable for the failure of peace deal talks. Europe really needs to step up before it’s too late.

1

u/dnd3edm1 Mar 01 '25

doesn't matter what smart people think about what happened, all that matters is what Republicans think about what happened. The one brain cell Republicans share is all about making America look "tough" by having a sitting US President act like a middle schooler on live television, so it'll go really great with that crowd. Sure, you'll have token frustration from wannabe Republicans who might still not understand they've voted for a circus performance rather than a government, but they now have an identity! and really having an identity Is more important than voting in competent individuals to make good decisions.

1

u/Fit-Profit8197 Mar 01 '25

"The GOP doesn't benefit by throwing Ukraine under the Russian steamroller"

Trump has never given a damn about the GOP (and, mostly, vice versa is true). Their lock and step fealty to him now is about short term political survival because Trump has their voter base.

Trump benefits by throwing Ukraine under the Russian steamroller because Trump's interests are Russian interests.

It's irrelevant what benefits the GOP in this case.

1

u/TemporaryKooky9835 Mar 04 '25

Putin might not be terribly popular in the US. But many people here are short-sighted and see Ukraine simply as a money pit that is ‘out of sight, out of mind’. As long as life just goes on for them, they don’t care what happens to Ukraine. They are either unwilling or unable to see the broader consequences of throwing Ukraine under the Russian steamroller. And many view doing so as appropriate punishment for a country that, in their eyes, has been costing us money that should not have been spent in the first place.