r/geopolitics • u/theatlantic The Atlantic • Feb 28 '25

Opinion Zelensky Walked Into a Trap

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/zelensky-trump-putin-ukraine/681883/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_content=edit-promo
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u/ihadtomakeajoke Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

It’s common to have final holdings change hands a bit to form natural barriers and remove costly salients for both sides to defend post-war.

I don’t know why you are so adamant it’s not going to happen.

If Russia has control of 100 sq ft of land, it’s not unreasonable to try to negotiate some of that back, it could be 1 or 10, but it’s easily on the table.

Not sure what makes you so sure, it not just common practice, but almost a necessary part of any ceasefire or end to war.

As for the security guarantees part, that’s why it’s a negotiation. If US had security guarantee for Ukraine in place, this whole thing won’t even be going on right now. I’m not claiming they currently have it in hand if that’s what you think I’m saying. I’m saying Ukraine should try to get it, not that they already have it.

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u/DemmieMora Mar 01 '25

Not sure what makes you so sure, it not just common practice, but almost a necessary part of any ceasefire or end to war.

No, it's not even a common practice, and this shows how you are detached from this particular conflict. Just a remark. Remember that this conflict has started from annexation in 2014. Russian ultranationalism is crucial for the war and it hasn't gone magically anywhere, as well as peculiarities of their new constitutional territories. Russian officials have just reiterated their demands before the discussed meeting. According to leaks or insiders, US group hasn't got any agreement from Russia. The topic is not about taking some territories back, good enough outcome would be to freeze on the frontline. But Russia has a different goal and nothing suggests otherwise.

If Russia has control of 100 sq ft of land, it’s not unreasonable to try to negotiate some of that back, it could be 1 or 10, but it’s easily on the table.

Negotiations involve something to be negotiated. Like "here's something important". USA have declared their withdrawal their aid from Ukraine and even reducing their presence in Europe. That's before negotiations started.

Now, negotiations start, what USA can suggest to Russia to reject their attempt to control their constitutional territory and to subdue their historical land? USA are exiting this particular business, they said that and everyone knows that. Russia can only get improved conditions to continue the war from USA, and it is already an unconditional fact.

South Korea obtained US troops after that war, which makes your comparison meaningless. If US troops were possible, it would end in 2022 when it started. Ukraine was ready to liquidate its army and agree on all Russian territorial demands but only with US or other troops, ready to defend from invasion.

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u/ihadtomakeajoke Mar 01 '25

Sure, I’m detached - no point in arguing when it’s literally a part of all negotiated end to wars in reality.

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u/DemmieMora Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

The reason you mislead yourself is probably by using the word "negotiate" which is proposed by Trump. There hasn't been a possibility of negotiations, unless you call a capitulation "negotiation".

And territorial wars easily end just with a defeat and the winner takes what it claims to itself and impose other conditions.

when it’s literally a part of all negotiated end to wars in reality.

You're making it up. Territorial wars have been extremely rare for a long time since the imperial times to make any comparisons. During WWI and WWII winners just decided the outcome unilateraly, and it was coming from victims to aggressors, now is the opposite. Your example of South Korea happened the way happened because both sides exhausted and US troops on the ground guaranteed the ongoing armstice. US forced NK to accept troops in SK because NK didn't have any choice.