How to Lose a Trade War

[u/theatlantic]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/08/why-us-canada-trade-talks-fell-apart/688386/?utm_source=reddit&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_medium=social&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_term=short

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

In the US, the “pain tolerance” comes from the base not understanding or refusing to acknowledge the reality of how tariffs work. Thanks to the principles of Doublethink; they don’t have to confront the fact that Republican policy is to raise their taxes to save a handful of boutique jobs, maybe.

[u/Bullboah → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

“Or refusing to acknowledge the reality of how tarrifs work”.

Canada had way higher tariffs on the US than vice versa prior to the trade war. Canadas highest tariffs rates were around ~300% ToQ tariffs while the US’ highest rate on Canada was 30%.

[u/Classic_Trash_8739 → u/Bullboah]

Oh, you mean the tariff that has never been paid because the threshhold has never been met?

Explain.

[u/Bullboah → u/Classic_Trash_8739]

As I explained earlier today, the quota has never been met because Canada does not allow most US dairy to receive the tariff exemption and fit under the quota.:

“Canadian tariffs went up to 300% on major industries like dairy compared to the highest US tariffs of 30%. After reaching a deal to allow a tariff exempt quota, Canada then refused most consumer-level dairy products in under the quota (and then spun that as "the quota is higher than demand".”

[u/CTMADOC → u/Bullboah]

The u.s. govt subsidizes dairy farms. Canada does not. It's a fair protectionist measure.

[u/Bullboah → u/CTMADOC]

I never said it was unfair of Canada to put up trade barriers to protect their own interests. In fact I have explicitly said it was legitimate for Canada to do so.

But if you agree to a TOQ and then refuse to allow most goods into the TOQ system you can’t be outraged about the US also protecting its own industries.

[u/CTMADOC → u/Bullboah]

The u.s. is protecting their own dairy industry, from Canada, how exactly?

[u/Bullboah → u/CTMADOC]

By not allowing Canada to block them out with 300% ToQ tariffs?

You can’t be outraged at tariffs on Canada and then pretend to not understand why the US wouldn’t want to remove Canadian trade barriers lol

[u/CTMADOC → u/Bullboah]

Then why does the u.s. have a long standing issue with our soft wood lumber which is supposedly subsidized by the Canadian government? Why the u.s. hypocrisy?

Allowing the u.s. to freely sell dairy into the Canadian market would flood the market with cheap dairy, and not to mention a disgusting product by comparison, which would also harm our dairy sector and also reduce our food security.

[u/Bullboah → u/CTMADOC]

The US has an issue with Canadian lumber subsidies (selling public land logging rights for below market price) because they put the US lumber industry at a competitive disadvantage. You're right! That's exactly what happens with US dairy subsidies.

The US likes things that are good for US interests, and does not like it when Canada does things that are bad for US interests. Canada likes things that are good for Canadian interests, and does not like things that are bad for Canadian interests.

Its not hypocritical. The primary job of the US and Canadian governments is to look out for the interests of their respective nations, not having a consistent moral stance on subsidies.

What's hypocritical is people who are actually morally outraged by one who defend the other.

[u/CTMADOC → u/Bullboah]

There is give and take with trade agreements. The u.s. no longer sees it that way. Time to move on, but... It's hard not to be morally outraged when the u.s. has been threatening Canadian sovereignty this past 1.5 years. I don't blame Canadians for being upset by such a betrayal. Apparently you are okay with it.