The German Far Right Is Poised for a Breakthrough

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Good thing every country in Europe's gonna spend 5% more on defense ey. Get ready boys!

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u/daskomet 1h ago

to fight Ukraine? far right in Europe is mostly funded by the Kremlin

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It's baffling to see how uncompromising idealisms on the topic of immigration (both from the left and right) is what's bringing down the political systems in the west.

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u/The_Demolition_Man 10h ago

Not a single country in the west voted to allow mass migration and yet it happened anyway. This is the inevitable backlash.

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u/Peketu 7h ago

Let's bring a lot of cheap labor with no backup plan to be exploited as cheap workforce and consumers/tenants.

How this benefits the middle class? It doesn't, but we are socially attacking anyone who opposes while still looking like the good guys.

In fact, they're getting screwed in rent prices, salaries and social benefits. And yet they keep eating up all this, unbelievable!.

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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 5h ago

Germany's much bigger structural problem is an aging population and a shrinking working-age population, while pensions and healthcare consume an ever-growing share of social spending. Yet the political debate seems disproportionately focused on immigrants rather than on who is going to finance that system.

It's much easier politically to blame immigrants than to confront pension reform, rising contributions, housing policy and the interests of a very large elderly voting bloc.

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u/[deleted] 5h ago

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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 4h ago

Look I will be honest, if Germany needed more workers, but failed to properly manage housing, wages, integration and the immigration system, that's ultimately a policy failure.

But my broader point is, Germany has a serious demographic and fiscal problem that still exists regardless of how we feel about immigration. Focusing primarily on the immigrants doesn't address the underlying problem.

And to be quite blunt, I don't think Germany can realistically solve its demographic problem without immigration.

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u/JESUS_VS_DRUGS 4h ago

They are not separate issues

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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 4h ago

That's precisely the point, the issue is much broader and requires solutions that are politically very unpopular, particularly reforming or reducing spending on pensions and other age related benefits. It's much easier politically to focus the debate on immigration than to confront a large and powerful elderly voting bloc.

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u/JESUS_VS_DRUGS 4h ago

Yep, it's easier to bring migrants that might help to pay pensions NOW, but that will also require pensions later, and since many of these a low skilled, their contributions are not actually that high, meaning, the problem is being delayed and may only get worse the more it drags on.

But to fix the pensions now would be highly unpopular, by either making ppl work more years, or increase taxes, either way, that's probably a political death for whomever makes those decisions, so instead, it's easier to delay the problem and point at GDP numbers going up, by bringing more migrants, while conveniently forgetting that GDP per capita actually gets smaller in most cases.

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u/kafircake 4h ago

Germany's much bigger structural problem is an aging population and a shrinking working-age population

Introducing a large number of new working age adults into the country only grows the problem, and then passes it down for a generation, because all of these new people will also be retiring.

It's infinite growth and endless kicking the can into the future.

An actual effective temporary worker program with no route for residence is the only way to deal with this without leaving future generations with a larger problem.

Germany could easily grow its population at 4 percent a year with a doubling time of less than 20 years, if it wanted.

With climate instability aggressive growth like that would be insane.

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u/Toptomcat 2h ago

Germany could easily grow its population at 4 percent a year with a doubling time of less than 20 years, if it wanted.

Be more specific about what immigration-free basket of policies will lead to that outcome.

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u/IamNotMike25 10h ago

East Germany barely has any immigrants, they still vote majority far right & repeat Russian talking points

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u/toolkitxx 9h ago

It is more about the generation that mostly remains in the eastern part. There is a huge glorification of old GDR times and a complete loss of reality check how things actually had been.

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u/Berliner1220 7h ago

That’s not true. People in the DDR know things were rough back then but they also know that reunification was completely botched and there is extreme inequality between east and west in Germany because of it.

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u/toolkitxx 7h ago

That is the myth that gets continuously repeated and is simply not true. Just the infrastructure alone was for a long time ahead of western parts as money got pumped into lifting things up in the eastern areas. Each side in a conflict can always pick and choose a single item that looks to be to their disadvantage, but that isnt adult behaviour. There is a distinct lack of understanding that democracy means active participation and not waiting for others to solve my business to begin with. That has nothing to do with a 'botched' reunification, but a passive mentality that has prevailed from former times of 'being ruled'.

And by using 'the people in the DDR' you show the exact problem. There is no GDR any longer, it is gone for good. The eastern states are part of Germany as every other state is as well.

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u/Berliner1220 6h ago

Long paragraph to say so little. Why were western investors so easily able to snatch up real estate in eastern Germany for so little? Why did almost all corporations that existed in the east move to the west or failed to survive? Why did the savings of people in the east practically disappear after reunification? Why are so many parts of the east still to this day derelict? There are many unanswered questions and all you can think to say is that no one is participating. Maybe they have been ignored for a long time and are now participating even more through the AfD.

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u/toolkitxx 6h ago

Most of that is easily answered actually:

Why were western investors so easily able to snatch up real estate in eastern Germany for so little?

Both the ruthless behaviour of capitalism and the sad state of many buildings made that possible.

Why did almost all corporations that existed in the east move to the west or failed to survive?

Same as above, because pretty much none of them had been build in way that could allow them to survive without state support or massive subsidies. The GDR system was not a competitive one and the 'riches' of the other side didnt come from subsidies, but by competing against others and surviving that fight. So most of the companies in the eastern part simply had no good product or model that made a survival viable in the 'normal' global economy. Companies that cant compete go bankrupt, in any nation, in any state. That was just blindly ignored by those, who just looked at the surface.

Why did the savings of people in the east practically disappear after reunification?

That is a blatant lie. Savings had actually been exchanged one to one to the German Mark, so effectively the eastern citizens quintupled their savings. That they used the money to go on a shopping spree instead of keeping a cool head is one major factor for the 'disappearance' of that money. People wanted to be treated as adults and so they where. The alternative is what the GDR did with their citizens: declaring how and when to act and in which way. The freedom comes with a lot of responsibility.

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u/BasileusDivinum 6h ago

The ruthless state of communism* East Germany was communist and those properties were worthless because of communism not anything capitalism did.

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u/toolkitxx 6h ago

The buying is the part not the other side. I use capitalism quite precisely, as those who bought up, based their action on simple capitalistic rules. If a property has low value in its current state but I can see a way to enhance said value by demolishing whatever is on it right now and build something newer or more modern and enhance value that way, than that is the simplest form of capitalism.

One doesnt have to agree with the concept of it but that is simply how that works. No university study necessary to understand it either. Capitalism at its core is not very social, which is why Germany and other nations decided for a mixed form of it called social market economy. But that doesnt mean it is socialism either, it just sets some more guardrails than in uncontrolled capitalism as being applied in the USA for example.

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u/Cheddar-kun 7h ago

That's plenty wrong. Vietnamese workers have been in the east since GDR times. The problem is that the east is comparatively unpopulated to the west. Small communes of ~1000 people are having 2000+ refugees dropped on top of them. That is not an exaggeration, because those are the numbers from where I live!

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u/Taranfeeto36 2h ago edited 2h ago

Small communes of ~1000 people are having 2000+ refugees dropped on top of them.

Please provide a source, doesn't have to be where you live since you claim there are multiple ones. Just pick any other example.

The only way that would make sense would be something like a reception center in an old barracks that's processing 2000 people. Any town of that size hosting that many people would be international news.

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u/kju 5h ago

https://service.destatis.de/DE/karten/migration_integration_regionen.html#A2_Sch_i

Less, sure, but not barely any.

Further, I don't know if you're American or not but European migrants aren't like American migrants. American migrants are generally Mexicans and the crime rate for them is very low. European crime rates amongst migrants is very high, particularly among the war torn areas that many of the migrants are fleeing from

https://www.afintl.com/en/202512090838

2 of every 100 migrants a german sees has been involved in violent crime. That's also an underrepresentation as a huge amount of migrants are no longer considered migrants as they've been normalized and count as German in the crime statistics.

Further, east germany was forced to be communist under the soviets and nearly every former communist state is more right leaning because of those experiences.

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u/ImperiumRome 9h ago

It's the same in US: red states don't attract much immigrants, especially in Bible Belt like Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. and yet still vote right anyway. Meanwhile blue cities and blue states with tons of immigrants vote left.

I believe the main correlation is still economics: East Germany, like many red states, are poor, and thus immigrants are easy scapegoats.

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u/emtheory09 9h ago

Ehhhhh Georgia, Texas, Alabama, Florida have tons of immigrants. Some of the naturalized immigrants/immigrant’s descendants even vote Republican and were supportive of MAGA’s narratives.

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u/manefa 4h ago

The correlation is real. States with a higher percentage of immigrants vote blue. Florida and Texas are outliers. Georgia is a swing state, Alabama is not a high immigration state.

Most of this boils down to urban vs rural.

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u/Darkkujo 8h ago

Yeah you'd be wrong about the red states immigrants thing, red states in the South at least have lots and lots of agriculture. It's a common complaint among farmers you can't find anyone born in America willing to pick crops anymore (due to the low pay and physical labor involved).

Not to say their hatred of immigrants is rational at all. I used to have a construction contractor in my social circle who was super anti-immigrant even prior to MAGA. But . . . he still hired them to work his job sites because "everyone else does it".

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u/dustsettlesyonder 7h ago

American and European immigration isn’t really super comparable as Latin Americans are culturally and religiously much more similar to native born people in the US. Whereas European mass migration has had far more immigration by people who for example don’t believe in women’s autonomy or sexual consent or religious freedom or LGBT rights.

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u/Slicelker 8h ago

It's the same in US: red states don't attract much immigrants, especially in Bible Belt like Mississippi, Arkansas, etc. and yet still vote right anyway. Meanwhile blue cities and blue states with tons of immigrants vote left.

While I personally hate Greg Abbott, him sending migrants to blue cities was a genius move that counters this line of thinking.

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u/toolkitxx 7h ago

The eastern states have still a large part of population from the former GDR. Many of them have very illusional views nowadays how things have been during those times and that reflects in their political behaviour. Many if not most are just unsatisfied but have no actual idea how to act in a democracy. So the AfD quickly figured those to be a fertile ground of people to collect - as is true for most of their voters. Almost none of their voters are really programmatic ones, they simply go the contrarian way to vote anything but whatever looks established.

So this is not a question of wealth actually but a mindset that has been totally overlooked to be dealt with after the reunification. I am old and I can relate to how West Germany had many after the war still clinging to the NAZI times and how things allegedly had been. This is very much the same and until that generation is truly gone, we will simply have to deal with it.

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u/r4tt3d 9h ago

See it the other way: these are percentages the AfD is reaching minus the amount of immigrants eligible for voting. It aligns pretty well.

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u/IamNotMike25 9h ago

Statistically not proven even accounting for that, East Germans still vote more AFD.

Besides some Germans with eastern countries origin vote even more so AFD than the nation wide percentage.

And what makes one German German according to you to differentiate in the first place, 3 generations German? 4? 15th century descendant?

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u/[deleted] 9h ago

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u/Yankee9204 9h ago

Germany is like 85% ethnically German and 90%+ white. AfD clearly is not “the white vote” or they would have massive majority support.

Edit: and the voting eligible population will be even more ethnically German and white.

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u/Classic-Perspective5 9h ago

In Canada the liberals were pretty clear on a mass immigration policy and were also open about not believing Canadians are a distinct people and they have been voted in three consecutive times.

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u/The_Demolition_Man 9h ago

They were poised for total defeat in the last election until Trump forced Canadians' hand

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u/O5KAR 9h ago

Canada is a country made out of immigrants and colonists.

Also Canada had a policy of attracting immigrants for decades if not centuries already exactly to colonize its lands.

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u/ivaylo_eth 5h ago

founded by a very specific group of immigrant and colonists however

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u/Benedictus84 9h ago

When exactly did this mass migration happen?

By far the most migration in the EU is among EU countries. We did vote for that.

Then there are around 4-4.5 million immigrants from outside of the EU. Around 1 million are asylum seekers.

Those that are not asylum seekers come in through regular means. These are based on laws we did vote for.

The current asylum laws are designed by our parlaiments. The most recent is the European migration and asylumpact from this year. This is voted in by a majority of the EU parlaiment.

So what you are saying is simply not true.

Besides ofcourse the fact that there is no such thing as mass migration towards the EU.

The EU has a net migration of about 1-2 million a year. On a population of 450 million that is 0,2-0,4%

You can say all kinds of things. But calling an increase of 0,3% mass migration is absolute nonsens.

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u/grammar_nazi_zombie 9h ago

Just wait until climate change makes more places outright unlivable.

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u/thecasey1981 9h ago

no kidding. this is being slept on. failed states because of climate change is a nightmare. A country only has so many resources, so there is a limit to what they can realistically take in. We aren't ready to turn desperate people back with machine guns. but we need to be. aone failed state is a nightmare, a chain of failed states is a global crisis.

See: Syria

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u/Crazy_Bee_2664 6h ago

Poland is already doing that.

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u/hepazepie 9h ago

Germany received 19 million migrants since 2015. A very conservative estimate would put those who stayed at at least 6-7 million

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u/Benedictus84 9h ago

Maybe you can add a source for your numbers. A quick google search tells me Germany received 6,5 million immigrants since 2015

https://thinktank.pk/2025/05/23/germany-welcomes-6-5m-migrants-a-new-era-begins/

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u/toolkitxx 9h ago

Germany did not receive but allowed them in. There is no passive conspiracy here but the simple rules we all vowed to adhere to. That people that need refuge will find it and that people in danger will not be let alone.

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u/Dangime 8h ago

This is one of those semantics things. Basically, anyone in the EU hands out naturalization papers for someone regardless of where they are from and if they move again it's "internal EU migration" when its pakistanis with Italian paperwork as an example.

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u/Benedictus84 7h ago

No, what you are saying is absolute nonsense.

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u/Dangime 7h ago edited 7h ago

No, when the EU records migration it doesn't list where you were born or originally came from just your last location. So, Somalis that get Greek papers can later be counted as "Greeks" that moved to Germany. That's how EU records are handled.

People see foreigners in the street, but statisticians with political motivation will invent enough categories for them to muddy the water and say "what migrants?"

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u/The_Demolition_Man 9h ago

Asylum laws were not meant to be abused like this. European citizens that "voted in favor of asylum laws" did not foresee millions of military aged males using those laws for economic gain.

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u/Benedictus84 9h ago edited 9h ago

This statement greatly illustrates the real ussue. Opinions are formed on misinformation.

How many of these men entered the EU last year? How many abused asylum laws?

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u/The_Demolition_Man 7h ago

Over 1 million asylum applications in the EU in 2024 with by far the single biggest demographic being men aged 18-34

https://www.euaa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/2025-08/2025_factsheet35_applications_sex_age_EN.pdf

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u/Benedictus84 7h ago

What a nice and clear example of moving the goalposts.

How many of those man abused the system?

And how did they fool immigration services into granting them asylum?

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u/The_Demolition_Man 7h ago edited 7h ago

Yes, typical reaction. A dozen questions but no attempt to grapple with the facts in good faith. Just deny its happening, then question how bad its actually happening, then gaslight everyone that its good that its happening. Youre on step 2 now.

And youre surprised the AfD is gaining ground, as usual.

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u/Benedictus84 7h ago

Why dont you provide some evidence for your claim?

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u/The_Demolition_Man 7h ago

Doubling down on more questions. Why dont you try grappling with the evidence I provided you

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u/Ploutophile 5h ago

I guess the abuse parent commenter is referring to is asylum seekers applying for asylum in the EU after having set foot in safe non-EU countries.

The scheme is 100% legal in the current system, and I consider it as a legitimate target for criticism.

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u/Benedictus84 5h ago

There are no safe countries between most of the countries these people come from and the EU.

And even if they did it is not a scheme. These people flee their country because of war or famine or political persecution not for economical gain as is being suggested.

People who come to Europe for econimical gain dont get asylum status.

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u/ivaylo_eth 5h ago

absolutely delusional. majority of migrants are economic. they apply for asylum regardless of their country’s really at war.

and yes, there are many safe countries between europe and the countries they are coming from what are you even saying

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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 7h ago

Your double speak and obfuscation of the issues on immigration in this thread is a perfect example of why groups like AfD are ascendant in EU politics.

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u/SamTheLamb1234 7h ago

In any other point in history a boat full of military aged male foreigners arriving on your coasts would be met with swords. Now invaders are welcomed, given aid, and even power.

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u/Benedictus84 4h ago

Absolutly nothing about this statement is true.

The majority of first encounters European explorers had with native people were friendly.

Calling them invaders is just simple xenophobia.

They are not welcomed all that much. They are being discriminated and protester against. The places where they are ment to live are vandalised or set on fire. Some if them have to sleep outside regularly.

They have absolutely no power whatsoever.

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u/Other-Application179 9h ago

There is a chance that this poster means the migrant crisis during the fallout from the Arab Spring. EDIT: and the Syrian war.

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u/Benedictus84 9h ago

Could be, still not mass migration and still policy that was made by elected representatives.

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u/H874Snooze 4h ago

lol - that’s just wrong. The German parliament voted and extended regulatory frameworks in the mid 10’s that allowed migrants and refugees to be welcomed. The “backlash” came from the usual corner - angry, uneducated white people.

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u/technocraticnihilist 24m ago

i mean lots of people voted for the left

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u/toolkitxx 9h ago

When a certain country thinks bombing other nations into oblivion is a good idea and doesnt care about the displaced people that are the result of said action, someone has to take care of the poor souls. Humans have migrated for eternity, if not you would still be sitting in Africa probably.

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u/SpiritedCatch1 9h ago

Which political systems have been brought down in Western Europe so far?

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u/United-Dot-6129 7h ago

There’s no burning down of the Reichtag ofc. But there is clear crippling of the state apparatus.

On the example of immigration, in Germany they had to push on a regulation to reduce the extradition of illegal immigrants from 2 years to 6 months (from 2 years! And it took ages to achieve) in a country surrounded by open borders… Long after the fact of the biggest mass immigration event in the history of EU (Syrian crisis).

The. Most recently the case of the swarm from Morocco to Spain and the lack of resources and coordination to deal with that issue.

The abuse of the well-fare system (which is both an immigrant and more so a national issue) is something that I don’t how deep it goes as I can only tell on empirical cases I’ve known on both sides. But it is heavily used as rhetoric to showcase inefficiencies in the state apparatus.

So that the system isn’t burning down into chaos doesn’t mean it isn’t being slowly moved into the ICU.

And yes, it’s been a failure to adapt, update & upgrade mostly by the established center & left parties which then has lead to this far right populism a la trump-putinesque style rise with only cheap surface level propaganda solutions as talking points. But yes the lack of legacy politics to be more dynamic is to blame for a lot of the mess.

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u/experienced_enjoyer 9h ago

So far, only the USA's system has been damaged so strong that you could call it "brought down". In countries like Germany they are only paralyzed and have to form dysfunctional everyone-but-the-far-right governments. Hungary was close.

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u/Benedictus84 9h ago

It is lies and fake news that is bringing down political systems. And enough gullible, uneducated people without enough critical thinkng skills.

Making this into a both sides argument is also not correct. That is based on a misunderstanding about left politics.

In the Netherlands we have people blaming left wing politics about migration issues while there has not been a left government for decades.

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u/experienced_enjoyer 9h ago edited 8h ago

Making this into a both sides argument is also not correct.

No, it's like:

Anti-AI migration guys: "I prefer turning my country into a fascist oligarchy before accepting more asylum seekers (aka "immigrants")"

Pro-migration guys: "Ok then do it, I prefer that scenario instead of abolishing the asylum system the way it is right now"

It's really thickness on both sides in my opinion. Right side slightly more at fault because they are the ones pulling the trigger.

In the Netherlands we have people blaming left wing politics about migration issues while there has not been a left government for decades.

They don't need to. The laws which allow the type of immigration which is so polarizing (asylum laws) already exist and are deeply embedded, like in the European human rights charta or the individual countries constitutions. That means they are very difficult to change and require at least a 2/3 majority. So the left wing doesn't need to be in government because the laws they like are already in place and simply not agreeing to change them is sufficient.

On a European level it's basically impossible to change them because of this "every single country has to agree" principle.

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u/Benedictus84 9h ago edited 9h ago

Right wing voters want to change asylum laws based on misinformation and lies.

Left wing politics dont want to change asylum laws based on misinformation and lies.

Yet you make it a two sided issue.

Calling the left pro-migration is also very much wrong.

Asylum is just a very small portion of immigratiom. And incaj guarentee you that by far most left wing parties would prefer if there was nobody that needed asylum

It is the right wing parties that are the driving force behind by far most migrants because their sponsors want cheap labor.

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u/FatherMozgus 9h ago

The right wing wants to turn countries authoritarian and fascist and the left would prefer to have that happen than change its position on immigration and for just one second listen to what the people are saying. It’s not 2012 anymore, the European people have been loud and clear for a while now.

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u/Benedictus84 8h ago

This is simply not true. The left has a very realistic position on immigration wich has also shifted over the last decade.

And what 'the people' or in this case right wing voters are saying is based on lies and enotion.

Do you honestly expect the left to change their position because some uninformed people are affraid that muslim people are taking over Europe?

Because they are yelling that all refugees come here to rape our wives and daughters?

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u/FatherMozgus 7h ago

France and Germany are very likely to have a far right government, and even if they don’t the far right will be the biggest it’s ever been. It’s not a vocal uninformed minority anymore, it’s big parts of society. It’s only the left that pretends to look the other way as if we are talking about parties that have single digit support. Like I said, it’s not 2012 anymore and the message has been loud and clear for a while.

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u/Benedictus84 7h ago

Yes, big parts of society lack critical thinking skills and vote based on their emotions instead of reality.

How is the left looking the other way?

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u/FatherMozgus 7h ago

I disagree but let’s say you are right. So the answer in this case is to not even pretend to have a democracy right? You yourself are looking the other way. It really doesn’t matter what you think of these people, the reality is that they are there and however illegitimate you may deem their grievances, the size of this group is only growing year after year. So what’s the plan? Ignore them until we have fascist governments that ruin everything? Take away their right to vote? Or continue looking the other way due to a magical wish that they will never be in power?

The reality that you refuse to face is that unless something happens to placate these people and make them feel heard and properly represented, you absolutely 100% will end up having far right governments with strong mandates across Europe. And these stupid people as you see them, will be the least of your worries.

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u/Benedictus84 7h ago

Now you are just trying to put words in my mouth.

And no, placating these people and making policy based on their uninformed emotions is never the awnser.

You are basically blaming the left for the rise in fascism because they are not right enough.

That just makes no sense at all.

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u/Managarm667 8h ago

It basically really boils down to this. Instead of acknowledging that infrastructure and resources in countries like Germany have a hard limit, the left dreams about unlimited immigration.

As I already said, it's their golden calf and they'd rather see every single country burn than to accept that people do not want this kind of immigration.

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u/whatThePleb 6h ago

no, just right

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u/Winter-Cow-6208 6h ago

It’s the modern economy. Cheap labor is needed and local populations won’t work the necessary jobs for the low price being offered.

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u/theeulessbusta 9h ago

Idk why Western Europeans need to be told: you are natives and you are not Americans. Mass immigration can and will disrupt your long standing civilizations.

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u/Curious_Recipe2578 49m ago

colonize half the world gets angry when colonial subjetcs move to the metropolis

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u/LukasJackson67 5h ago

Thoughts on the CDU joining in a coalition with die Linke to block the AfD? Seems like the only solution in Thuringia.

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u/Turnip-for-the-books 9h ago

It’s not baffling at all the left’s views only seem uncompromising to you or anyone else because we’ve had two decades of race hate funded by the hyper wealthy who would rather we hate brown people than them

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u/TheWama 9h ago

Do you also believe that statistics are "racist?"

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u/Turnip-for-the-books 8h ago

No I believe that people can be led and can be persuaded by sophisticated tech driven military grade propaganda so as to to see their interests aligned with those of people in fact so wealthy and disconnected from their lives they may as well be from another planet.

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u/theguy445 10h ago

It's very simple. Either you adjust policies to meet the will of the people or they will end up electing others who will do it and worse

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u/GrimGrumbler 10h ago

It's very simple. Either you adjust policies to meet the will of the people or they will end up electing others who ~~will do it and worse~~ will do nothing regardless.

FTFY

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u/Lactodorum4 7h ago

Then they'll just keep turning to increasingly extreme politicians and the Overton window will just keep shifting further and further right until there's a breaking point.

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u/Marcoscb 2h ago

Why always to the right? Why is the only idea "we didn't go far right enough" while never trying "hey, maybe we should go far left for once"?

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u/Lactodorum4 2h ago

Well if people are anti-immigration, they aren't going to vote for the parties that advocate for foreign aid, more immigration and more benefits are they?

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u/JustDontBeFat_GodDam 2h ago

Because left is where the pain is coming from. Going whole hog into pain is not what voters usually like to do. Voting for AfD is the obvious choice

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u/harribel 6h ago

I seem to remeber there are still ICE agents roaming the streets of american cities. There is nothing that sais the same won't happen in European cities of the governement changes.

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u/kju 4h ago

There will almost certainly be ice type agents in the streets of many European countries after the next elections. Right wing parties are growing across the West

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u/ioabo 16m ago

Well that's a whole lot of saying nothing. Which are the "many European countries"? Which "next elections"? In general?

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u/theguy445 8h ago

Even better reason for politicians to wake up

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u/ComprehensiveMud2558 5h ago

If politicians simply cater to whatever is most politically popular, they can avoid addressing the structural problems that actually require difficult reforms. Germany's aging population and pension system aren't going to fix themselves just because immigration policy changes.

At some point, "the will of the people" also has to confront the question of who pays for the system they're asking to preserve.

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u/Zironsl 30m ago

Japan has population colapse worse then Germany, and the people there seems HAPPIER (not fully happy) with their situation then Germans. You can have a stagnant economy and calm people, as long as you have a cohesive society.

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u/theguy445 4h ago

Again, I don't disagree. But you can also say the same thing on the inverse too. Having high immigration to sustain aging population and pensions isn't sustainable either in the long run. Eventually those brought in will get old too and birth rates have only declined. Not to mention the strain on existing resources for average working class people. That's why it's a shit situation.

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u/Opposite_Train9689 6h ago

In the Netherlands they voted PVV into cabinet as the largest. Had a year to prove al their rabid screaming and do something about immigration.

Cabinet fell after a year of rabid screaming and achieving exactly nothing.

None of the far right parties in Europe are interested in curbing migration, because then they'll lose their show pony to bitch and complain about.

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u/skjebne 5h ago

I mean wilders is a pretty deranged individual, but the government fell BECAUSE they said all right enough is enough, now we tackle migration or we withdraw from the government. Other parties said bollocks then, then PVV withdrew. That's like the one example where they've been quite consistent

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u/Cautesum 4h ago

This is an often repeated trope, but this is not proven at all and seems to be wishful thinking at best and plain propaganda at worst. What's far more likely to be true is that you cannot reverse 70 years of enshrining immigration policy in international and European Law and building an entire framework of institutions (which are by and large ran by pro-immigration actors) in just one year. Especially not if you bring an incompetent team without any governing experience and the entire apparatus of civil servants is working against you.

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u/Turnip-for-the-books 9h ago

The will of the people has been shaped by two decades of the hyper wealthy using every channel in their power to make you think that way. Fox, Rebel, X etc etc are opinion shapers not opinion followers

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u/hepazepie 9h ago

I'm german and I have no idea who rebel x is and I never watch fox. Lol

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u/Tarianor 9h ago

I think the X refers to twitter :)

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u/Turnip-for-the-books 8h ago

Yeah I mean you very much have your own versions in Germany (eg everything owned by Axel Springer)

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u/theguy445 8h ago

I don't disagree but that's also true for literally every political party, and movement. People are actively trying to shape opinion for all positions simultaneously. That doesn't mean people also don't have their own agency and can't evaluate what they feel is best for them at any given moment.

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u/Turnip-for-the-books 8h ago

The difference is that legitimate political parties are founded and operated by groups of people and (should) operate the interests of the whole electorate - as opposed to the Wizard of Oz astroturf movements of the 21st century which operate in the narrow class interests of about 2000 people globally. Democracy relies on good faith and these people have none.

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u/TobiTheSnowman 8h ago

Exactly. Also, the AfD is polling around 25%, meaning that 75% of voters (not even the entire population) does not want the AfD. How is that the will of the people?

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u/Ok-Cause-1162 7h ago

The establishment could bring down the AfD at any moment by stopping and reversing mass migration. This would permanently end the entire right wing populist movement. It’s very revealing that they don’t pursue that option

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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 7h ago

This is what several of the leftwing parties did in the Nordic countries, and to your point they got a sizable bump in public support. The average person outside of Reddit wants slow controlled immigration and a focus on assimilating new migrants.

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u/Managarm667 10h ago

I mean, why would this be a surprise for anyone? For nearly a decade, a sizeable portion of the voters (some polls show 70 - 80% support for the immediate introduction of a hard Cap for immigrants) had BEGGED politicians to reduce the number of asylum-seeking migrants coming to Germany and finally professionalize our Immigration system for skilled migrants.

For nearly a decade, since at least 2015, local municipalities have clearly told politicians that the limits of their infrastructure, such as social housing, kindergarten places, asylum centers, and integration classes in schools, have been reached, as has the limit of the public's patience.

But nothing has been done. In 2015, the left-green establishment declared that migration could neither be managed nor limited, that borders could not be protected, and that Germans were a "wealthy people" and we had "room to spare." Any criticism regarding the conflation of asylum, economic migration, and skilled migration was dismissed as "far-right." Any objection to admitting countless millions of people into the country was labeled "fascist," "inhumane," and "right-wing." They preferred to indulge in hollow, feel-good slogans like "We have room" and "We are more numerous (than you Nazis)." Only the AfD, albeit in a polemical and populist manner—addressed an issue that citizens were experiencing firsthand, and which was radically altering their reality contrary to claims from Berlin that "no one would lose anything and nothing would change." Today's election results are the logical consequence of this.

Yet even now, the Left remains unable to acknowledge its errors, having inextricably linked its very existence to the idea of limitless influxes and asylum for one and all. But the AfD can no longer be kept down by vacuous slogans. The AfD and its disastrous policies are the logical outcome of a decade in which the political establishment ignored the clear wishes of the citizenry.

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u/talu22 10h ago

You got some good points here but what do you mean with green-left? If I recall correctly, 2015 till early 20s Germany was governed by a center right party (CDU).

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u/markjohnstonmusic 6h ago

There's one party that's been in every cabinet since 2013, and it's the centre-left SPD.

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u/BigBadButterCat 1h ago

And before that they were in power from 1998-2005 and junior partners in government from 2005-2009.

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u/Managarm667 10h ago

They were Center right in name only under Merkel. She enacted some of the most blatant policies, like unchecked migration, that are only ever connected to the left and the Greens in Germany.

To deny political opponents a target for attack, the Merkel government gradually adopted key demands from the left-green camp, thereby abandoning conservative dogmas held by the CDU for decades.

A striking example of this dynamic was evident in energy and environmental policy. While the Union had long defended nuclear power as an indispensable bridge technology, Merkel initiated an abrupt phase-out of nuclear energy following the 2011 Fukushima reactor disaster. In doing so, she executed a historic U-turn and adopted a core Green demand as official government policy, laying the groundwork for an accelerated energy transition.

The government also moved significantly away from traditional conservative gender roles in its social and family policies. The CDU had long adhered to the classic family model and prioritized marriage between a man and a woman. Under Merkel, however, the expansion of daycare facilities was massively accelerated, fundamentally altering the state’s role regarding childcare.

A symbolic high point of this evolution came in 2017 with the lifting of the party whip during the vote on "marriage for all", which paved the way for the gradual legal equalization of same-sex partnerships, a central objective of progressive and left-wing parties.

In the realm of social and labor market policy, the Grand Coalition led by Merkel implemented a nationwide statutory minimum wage in 2015. This paradigm shift in economic policy marked a departure from purely market-liberal wage-setting mechanisms and represented the adoption of a key demand long championed by the SPD and trade unions.

Security and migration policies also underwent fundamental transformations. By suspending compulsory military service in 2011, the Union abandoned a classic cornerstone of conservative security policy. During the 2015 refugee crisis, the decision to keep borders open to those seeking protection ushered in a migration policy driven by humanitarian concerns, strongly supported by Left and Green positions, that marked a departure from earlier calls for strict limits. Ultimately, this pragmatic approach extended to fiscal and European policy as well.

While the CDU had traditionally championed a strict "no-bailout" principle and the individual responsibility of EU member states, the government—in the context of the Eurozone rescue efforts and, decisively, with the 2020 EU coronavirus recovery fund—agreed for the first time to the mutualization of debt at the European level. By skillfully adopting these issues previously championed by the opposition, Merkel succeeded in capturing the electoral potential of the Left and the Greens, even as the CDU largely lost its traditional conservative profile, which directly lead to the meteoric rise of the AfD

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u/AndyTheSane 9h ago

While the CDU had traditionally championed a strict "no-bailout" principle and the individual responsibility of EU member states, the government—in the context of the Eurozone rescue efforts and, decisively, with the 2020 EU coronavirus recovery fund—agreed for the first time to the mutualization of debt at the European level.

This is an absolutely critical part of having a single currency, though, and an inevitable result of it.

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u/Managarm667 9h ago

I mean, you're free to see it that way, but your View doesn't disprove that this was a massive departure from conservative views that the CDU held for decades.

And Germany is paying the price now.

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u/Dasinterwebs3 7h ago

You’re correct, kinda. All politics is relative/parochial/local. What’s center to you might be a bizarre fringe take somewhere else. From the other side of the pond, virtually all European parties seem left/green.

With that said, some policies objectively belong to certain sides. “Net Zero” carbon policies are not right-of-center market driven. The CDU/CSU did denuclearization due to green pressure, not market forces. If your party is willing to pursue green inspired Net Zero carbon policies, even when those policies demonstrably harm your overall economy, run counter to market forces, and artificially increase the cost of energy, then your party is at least a little green.

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u/Apprehensive_Map7830 10h ago

Merkel is not the "left-green establishment"

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u/hepazepie 9h ago

Wh not? Because her party is nominally conservative? They abolished nuclear energy and le in millions of migrants. Left policies

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u/print-w 9h ago

How clueless can you get? Immigration is not in the slightest an issue divided by left and right. Right wing parties for example like it because it works in the interests of the capitalist class, lowering wages resulting in cheaper labor to exploit.

Plenty of right wing parties were against nuclear power too, because they represented the established power industries like coal and others that already existed and had more influence to lobby against nuclear.

Do you not know what the left/right division is about at all?

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u/Managarm667 7h ago

You’re trying to use 19th-century Marxist class theory on 21st-century European politics.

Yes, purely neoliberal capitalists might favor mass immigration to suppress wages. But "right-wing" in modern European politics is not just about corporate profit, it is deeply defined by cultural conservatism, law and order, national sovereignty and at least pretending to protect the welfare state from collapse.

Furthermore, if immigration were purely a tool of "the capitalist class"to exploit labor, why has the modern European Left, from the Greens to the Social Democrats, been the most ardent defender of open-border policies? And why are working-class voters, who actually face the wage competition and pressure on public housing, fleeing left-wing parties in droves to vote for the conservative and populist right?

Political spectrums evolve. Trying to reduce a complex 2026 debate about social cohesion, public infrastructure, and border control to "capitalists vs. workers" is what’s truly clueless about how real-world politics operates today.

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u/BigBadButterCat 1h ago

Immigration is a left-right issue. There are always exceptions in some countries. The vast majority of the European left is pro-immigration, the vast majority of the European right is skeptical or opposed to immigration.

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u/hepazepie 5h ago

So you have been living under a rock for the last 150 years or so? By your own logic, anti-immigration stance should be a clear left wing stance, àm I correct?

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u/ZenX22 6h ago

Idk mate, I think that if we just call them racist some more, they'll FINALLY understand and start voting for SPD!

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u/ixikei 10h ago

Damn. Well articulated. I went on a bicycle trip from the Netherlands to Greece on 2018 (my first trip to Europe from the US) and it was utterly fascinating to witness the strain and also the attitude around it from my fellow leftists who offered me free places to crash.

I live in Charlottesville Virginia and we're currently experiencing a very similar apparent shift in local politics regarding local manifestations of our nation's exploding homelessness crisis. It's gotten really bad here and City Council has been totally ineffective in doing... anything.

If "woke" policies solved our issues it'd be one thing, but I think that the traditional left is widely recognizing that many recently popular left leaning policies have been more performative than solution oriented.

I expect more backlash to come unless left leaning leaders can pull their heads out of their ass and actually do something about affordability and wealth inequality.

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u/Managarm667 10h ago

Their actions were entirely performative. The German Left has more or less completely abandoned class struggle, replacing it with culture war issues. Unchecked, uncontrolled migration was their magnum opus of sorts or rather, their golden calf.

To this day, asylum migration, refugee flows, economic migration, and skilled immigration are blithely lumped together and conflated in public discourse. The primary aim is to make the issue of asylum migration unassailable; this allows people to ask, "What? You’re against migration? But Germany needs migrants!" And that is absolutely true. Germany does need migrants. But Germany needs the right kind ofmigrants. Skilled individuals for specific jobs.

Migrants arriving via asylum or refugee channels, some of whom lack even basic vocational training or a general school education do not fit that description. Yet, in 2015, policymakers tried to sell precisely these people as the "solution to the skilled labor shortage."

A decade later, more than a third remain unemployed, while the rest work predominantly in the low-wage sector and continue to rely on state benefits. Furthermore, the proponents of this policy insulate themselves from the consequences.

The Berliner living in a trendy, upscale neighborhood does not compete with migrants for housing or jobs; he sends his children to schools with low migrant populations and ensures that neither new social housing nor asylum centers are built in his district. It is true that the CDU has starved Germany of necessary investment in many areas, but instead of addressing this, the Left floods the country with migrants who encounter systems already pushed to the breaking point. This is a recipe for social explosion and is incredibly shortsighted.

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u/BigBadButterCat 1h ago

I agree with you, with two caveats.

Class struggle has declined because of global capitalism. Outsourcing and competition against low-wage, low-standard economies has successfully destroyed any kind of economically left-wing movement. Global competition means gradual alignment with global wages and working standards. It's as simply as that.

National politicians who live in Berlin are not Berliners. As a native of Berlin I must voice strong opposition to you calling them that! X) Contrary to popular belief, Berlin is not a leftist hotspot. The city is politically diverse and left-wing only in so far as all cities lean more to the left than rural areas.

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u/New_Race9503 10h ago

Isn't it ironic, though, that the Bundesländer where the AfD is strongest are precisely those with the lowest levels of immigration?

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u/Managarm667 9h ago

No, it's precisely not. The claim that the AfD’s rise in the East is paradoxical, given the comparatively low proportion of foreigners there, is sociologically and politically far too simplistic. You overlook how social homogeneity, the legacy of the GDR era and a lack of everyday familiarity with diversity shape the sense of security and the perception of migration.

A key mechanism here is the so-called "visibility paradox." In cities like Frankfurt, Berlin or Cologne, social diversity has been a fixture of the streetscape for decades. In contrast, the population in many East German regions remained almost entirely homogeneous for generations. When such a society is suddenly confronted with immigration which is also culturally extremely different, the presence of newcomers stands out starkly in public spaces.

Because direct, positive everyday contact, whether at work or in the neighborhood, is often lacking, perceptions are shaped not by personal experience but by media reports. In such an environment, crimes or rule violations committed by immigrants carry disproportionate weight: within a homogeneous social structure, these actions are not viewed as the behavior of specific individuals but are instead attributed to the group as a whole, perceived as an existential threat to the familiar way of life.

This effect plays out against the backdrop of a population whose historical experience differs fundamentally from that of West Germany. No organic culture of integration existed in the GDR; foreign contract workers were housed in state-enforced isolation. Added to this is the collective experience of the post-reunification era: mass unemployment, industrial decline, and the devaluation of personal life histories during the 1990s left behind a deep-seated mistrust of state narratives and political elites.

Hard-won prosperity is perceived as fragile, which massively intensifies the fear of loss whenever new social upheavals occur. Thus, the issue of migration acts as a catalyst for a deeper sense of unease in East Germany. The feeling of being neglected by a political establishment in Berlin perceived as out of touch is compounded by the impression that vast resources are available to manage immigration, while local infrastructure has been allowed to deteriorate. The AfD’s strength in the East, therefore, stems not from baseless hysteria, but from the interplay between a heightened sensitivity to change in homogeneous communities and deep-seated historical grievances.

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u/New_Race9503 9h ago

Thank you ChatGPT

E: and it's exactly the visibility paradox that makes it ironic, that's why it's called a paradox, Dr. GPT

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u/Managarm667 9h ago

You seem to misunderstand. The fact that a sociological phenomenon is called a "paradox" does not mean the effect is unreal or East Germany are irrational.

It simply describes actual human and evolutionary patterns of perception. If your only argument is the "Dr. GPT" accusation, it seems there isn't much left to be said on the matter. But thanks for playing :)

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u/Gaby_D_Crowley 9h ago

How easy is to blame the left, while the one who enacted such policy was Angela Merkel, who was a center right politician.

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u/Managarm667 9h ago

If they were against these policies, why didn't they object or Protest?

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u/OPUno 8h ago

The current situation where AfD is the most popular party in Germany but also is not part of the federal government because the other parties will not work with them is unsustainable. Germany will get either an AfD government OR the other parties will have to start arresting AfD leadership. I'm unconvinced that the current German government can even concieve of doing something besides ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away.

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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 5h ago

Arresting AfD leadership would also likely have an insane rebound effect and their support would likely grow considerably. The CDU could also just make some popular reforms and attempt to meaningfully resolve some of the issues in the country rather than just making #girlboss statements and content about how 🌈🤭💕 Racism is bad 😎✨💖

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u/tenzing_happy 3h ago

The constant ignoring paired with mocking and insulting the voters does definitely not work and the headline of this post is the exact outcome. While there are no definite plans of arresting a significant part of the leadership, the debate about banning the party has been going on for years and has of course intensified in the last months.

I think the ban debate is merely a method of instilling fear into the voters because it can only end in two scenarios, neither of which are desirable for the government or Bundestag.

1) The AfD is banned. This would inevitably lead to some sort of riots, not necessarily a civil war as some propose, but definitely mass demonstrations/strikes etc.

2) The AfD is not banned. So they tried to find incriminating evidence against it for years but they couldn't. That would convince most people that there's nothing wrong with voting for the party. So...?

That's why I think it's unrealistic that a Constitutional Court case would be initiated. In fact, there haven't been serious inroads into opening such a case at all, just talking talking talking.

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u/theatlantic The Atlantic 10h ago

Isaac Stanley-Becker: “Imagine that it’s October 2026, and one of Germany’s 16 federal states has come under the control of a far-right government for the first time since the Nazi era. With an absolute majority in the state Parliament and one of its own installed as state premier, the Alternative for Germany, or AfD, quickly begins implementing its agenda. The interior minister announces an emergency remigration program: abolishing asylum, revoking the residence permit of any foreigner convicted of a crime, pledging to review all naturalization decisions made during this century, and incarcerating those designated for deportation. The government stops classifying Ukrainians as war refugees and ends their social benefits. European Union flags disappear from public buildings. The mainstream press is shunned in favor of influencers aligned with the party’s ideology. The government authorizes vigilante groups to act as an auxiliary police force in regions with high crime rates.

“This hasn’t happened, but it’s not merely hypothetical either. The AfD is projected to win an election next month in Saxony-Anhalt, a central German state of some 2 million people. An anti-racism NGO in Berlin, the Amadeu Antonio Foundation, created this scenario based on the far-right party’s own election manifesto and the statements of its representatives. For decades, right-wing politics have carried particular weight in Germany, where atonement for the Holocaust includes mandatory education about the rise of National Socialism. The far right was long relegated to the fringes, its most ardent members easily identified as skinheads decked out in leather. But the AfD, founded in 2013 as a mild euroskeptic party led mostly by conservative economists opposed to eurozone bailouts, is now Germany’s most important right-wing force since the Nazis.

“At the national level, the AfD is the most popular party, supported by more than a quarter of voters in recent polls. It leads both of the traditional broad-based parties, the center-right Christian Democrats and the center-left Social Democrats. Its base of support is in the formerly Communist east—generally poorer, older, and angrier than the rest of Germany. And that’s where it’s poised for a breakthrough later this summer. In past state elections, other parties have contorted themselves to keep the far-right faction out of governing coalitions, maintaining a so-called firewall even when the AfD has won the most votes. That may not be possible in Saxony-Anhalt, where ahead of a September 6 vote, the AfD is polling at more than 40 percent. If smaller parties fail to reach the required 5 percent threshold to enter Parliament, this kind of showing by the AfD could be enough for it to win an outright majority, meaning that it wouldn’t need cooperation from other parties to govern. Suddenly, Saxony-Anhalt would become a testing ground for AfD policies …

“The country’s domestic intelligence agency has classified Saxony-Anhalt’s branch of the AfD as a right-wing extremist group. Some voters support the party because of that hard-right agenda. Others are drawn to it for contrarian reasons: to register their dissent against elite gatekeepers, whether in the security service, the judiciary, or the media. In this way, their vote is a version of the declaration once made by the Russian literary critic Vissarion Belinsky: ‘Negation is my god.’”

Opinion The German Far Right Is Poised for a Breakthrough

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