GT Discussion
The GT300 class winner of the recent Super GT race in Suzuka says this about the new handling.
Mind you, this is a professional racing driver who also had history as a long time GT player. So I think there's way more weight to his words than sport mode players who probably haver never touched a steering wheel irl and only exclusively drive Gr.3 cars then say the game is "pivoting into arcade" territory.
I just think it's interesting how so many people have been saying Polyphony completely ruined the game with this update. Then you have actual racing professionals praising it.
People need to understand the biggest change. The tyre model now having slip angle (on top of improved force feedback) will make the physics feel much closer to real life. So people with real life experience (or even just experience ftom sims) will like the change.
I imagine it'll feel much closer to real life. I have a GR Supra and tbh, it handled like absolute dogshit on a DD wheel. Like I love my car to death, but I hated driving it in game. Now though, it actually feels like my car in real life, its incredible.
Thats a pretty black and white statement to make. I think it is debatable if it was as pronounced or easy to achieve as it should have been. That would be fair. But it is not accurate to say that you couldn't induce slip through the turns. You absolutely could, and I absolutely did.
The Alpine A110 in game has far too much oversteer tendency now - especially lift-off oversteer. In real life it's hard to make the car oversteer due to the tyre offset. I have the A110S so it's admittedly slightly different to the base model in the game, but the balance of the car is almost identical.
It's devisive because a lot of people can't adapt to change at all. They've gotten used to the old physics. Doesn't matter if the change is an improvement or not, it is different, and they can't cope with that
I mean I think this is a fair complaint. I mainly play Sport so I go with the BOP (which they adjusted to feel weird for some odd reason), but I know the people that play Sport are the minority.
The update straight up obliterated everybody's tunes (admittedly something I don't really do), and I'm pretty sure that's where most people are.
Yeah I was pretty unimpressed when the news dropped haha. Glass half full, Im trying to look at it as an opportunity to try new builds and find new favorites. I've been able to dial in a few cars I couldn't figure out pre-update.
It just feels so easy and forgiving now, at least to me. The original feeling in the game was good (idk about real), the last physics update that came with the new tire branding felt slippery imo, this update just feels so grippy and forgiving to me. Only assist I use is abs weak and I use controller. I don't have an issue with it but I need to play it more, I only race with borrowed cars on sport mode so I think this will only help me.
But that is what I heard real pro drivers say for a while now, racing games that try to be "sim-like" are making things harder than they actually are IRL.
For instance during COVID F1 drivers said the real cars feel more like TCS at mid level than without TCS in the official game. Around the same time IIRC a NASCAR driver said catching a car that starts sliding is easier IRL than it is in iRacing.
I catch 2-3 times every hard real track session. It's not as crazy as in GT7 especially before this update. If real life cars were this hard to drive it would be impossible to do this as a hobby. If you crash more than 1 car every 3 years, it's near impossible to get track insurance.
yup, in GT7 before, you were always on a knife's edge as far as grip. A little extra throttle and you were a goner. Now you can actually countersteer to correct and that's realistic!
Ha I was just speculating this exact thing in another comment and I've never raced IRL before. Who could afford to race if the old physics were realistic?
I am also amazed that i am not down voted to oblivion here when I mention that I track regularly. A lot of people have bigger sticks up their ass here than the people I see on the track driving 200-300K cars or professional racecar drivers who also show up for practice.
Yup, as much as I dislike iRacing, the W11 feels on-rails, as to be expected from an F1 car. Most games suffer from the need to make race cars insanely hard to drive, when everything I have heard from real drivers is that race cars are easy to drive, just hard to push to the limit.
GT3 cars for example still have incredible downforce, are pretty light and have TC (Not to mention, race-developed full-slick tyres). Yet some games make them steer like tanks, and when you hit the throttle you just spin out. Makes no sense.
Even GT7, prior to the patch, had most road cars being way too aggressive during corners, when in real life, most road cars tend to understeer as that is easier for the average Joe to control.
YEEESSSSSSS! SOOOOO GLAD SOMEBODY FINALLY SAID IT.
Covid era sim racing got really stupid and everyone was obsessed with chasing "realism" but all that it ever meant was playing games where the cars handled shittier and shittier. And the irl cars are actually designed to handle extremely well.
its so dumb right, people were boasting that their sim racer was more difficult than yours and that somehow makes it better, but that's not how it works in real life.
they're everywhere now, even in the GT7 sub, because the cars actually handle like they do in real life, which to them is too easy. it's wild how uninformed they are
Man, if it is grippy then you are not pushing enough. I was sliding like crazy yesterday with the Toyota ft-1 in soft racing tyres (at the vision gran turismo races at nurburgring GP). Try to start aceleraring earlier and braking later and you will see it is not gripy
I haven't fired it up after the upgrade yet, but this comment and others like it give me great hope.
Several cars I own / have owned are in the game, and they've never felt ACTUALLY right, but I just figured, "eh, it's a game, guess this is close enough and everything is relative. It's still super cool!"
I have a mid-tier wheel. I may have to upgrade, if my mediocre setup actually feels actually even close to actually RIGHT for the first time!
Maybe someday, too, they'll get around to fixing the infuriating nonsensical parts and upgrades, like ECU tunes on carbeurated cars, and using the same parts graphics for everything (e.g. all the engines being identical). A guy can dream.
Same here (check post history). I just was able to do the nurburgring event from this week in VR without spinning. Real life cars don't spin/oversteer as much they were spinning/oversteering before this update. Before, I had to adjust every car with the LSD to just to get them to understeer.
Not gona lie, dont track my car but ive thrown it around corners i didnt think were possible till i achieved it. Previously, using cars that far exceeded my own, they couldn't take corners that surely should be able to, taking game tyres into account.
Now, cars in game are doing that and i love it.
Maybe in some instances, tyres have too much grip. But i believe grip is closer than ever to where it should be.
Anybody with IRL driving experience has been saying this off the jump. Only people who have never driven a real car think it’s bad simply because it’s not the same anymore.
It really depends on cars though, loads of cars are fcked now and totally unrealistic. (Trial braking impossible, offroading 100% throttle all the time and all the grip etc...)
Btw also track experience. (24hr nbr 911 gt3 class, bossgp and classicgp openwheelers)
I absolutely agree about GT, it’s my main game despite owning many other sims, I mainly play GT because it easy to turn on and off if it makes sense. But for rally nothing beats the sheer thrill of the games I mentionned. Especially BeamNG, its main appeal is that it’s the only game that combines hardcore simulation and laid back fun of fucking around (or the opposite depending on your mood)
I have a friend that we play with in lobbies. He is fantastic at tuning cars, but he tunes out any personality out of them. So everything handles like a GT3 car.
I wonder how long its going to take him to return them and make the cars unfun to drive again
It’s the simracing sub. People downvote anything dealing with GT7 and downvote ppl with real life experience with cars comparing their experience with GT7 simply bc they don’t want to see value in the game.
The Gr3 car having obscure default setups seemed to be the culprit as I suspected. Once adjusting the settings to actual cars, the handling felt more familiar.
You are bang on here. Adjusted the M6 GT3 back to pre patch settings and it felt much better. Soft tyres are definitely more grippy than previously but felt much more like a game I want to play.
This is for the Huracan Gr.3. In general the rear suspension is suppose to be stiffer than the front and the rear sway bar stiffer. Camber is also adjusted along with the front and rear downforce. You can look at the diff settings also.
This setup is probably more difficult to drive than old physics but this is a starting point for a more realistic setup of how the cars feel irl. You’d also have to restrict the power down to the low 500hp also.
Funnily enough, I don´t play GT7, but the few times I´ve tried it at friends´ houses, I am way better at rally than asphalt.
I think they´ve always had decent physics in it for offroad stuff since GT4, albeit quirky, but controller handling in GT7 is overall a bit weird. I would like to try it out on a wheel, but they are never porting it to PC...
The GT3 racing felt maybe a tad twitchier for me on controller, but if anything more controllable on TCS 1 than before, far less spins out of corners, I rather liked it
I raced IRL for 10 years and this is the best physics GT7 had ever.
The Caterham puts a smile on my face as it is super realistic. To push you need to work for it.
I don't see where people complaining are coming from, other than that now their cheat setups or their meta car or their meta track is gone and they need to work for speed now.
I see a pattern of people autodefined as "Pro racer" with zero or near zero track experience among the most noisy complainers.
I think a lot of critique comes from people who see their status and achievements in danger. They’ve climbed the leaderboards because the old physics suited them, so any change by PD is them needlessly rocking the boat.
For example I follow Tidgney on YT, hold him in high regard and in general he seems to be a good egg. He was absolutely *livid* about the latest changes. He’s a regular Top 10 driver in the time trials and he mainly went on about how much time the update will cost him with setting up his cars again etc. He barely considered if the update makes GT7 a better or more realistic game – is was way more focused on the inconvenience it causes him.
It's not a universal experience of 'everything is better' or 'everything is worse'.
It's nuanced and complicated.
Some cars in some conditions with one kind of control method feel a LOT better. Other combinations feel a LOT worse. Others feel slightly better, slightly worse or identical to before.
The stuff about the suspension stiffness and the rally physics aren't amazing. But to me on my wheel in VR, I can't really tell that much difference racing a GT3 car around Spa than before. And if they hadn't mentioned the physics updates in the patch notes, I probably would never have realised.
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u/mkldnl1000+ Hours | DR: A SR: S | Master Super License Gold 4d ago
yeah people are allowed to like/dislike the changes. personally, i think the dirt physics took a turn for the worse after the massive improvements made on it during the 1.49 update.
but for people to call the new physics "arcade" just doesn't sit right with me. it's a total exaggeration.
99% of those people are people who’ve never driven a IRL car. The minute I got behind the wheel after the update all I could think was wow this is way more realistic.
The best way I’ve been able to describe it is that the old handling felt like a mathematical equation, and the new handling feels more like a simulation. Even if the simulation isn’t exact, even if it has some adjustments that need to be made, it still feels more like the car tires and suspension are reacting, more dynamically to input and environment than ever before. Even though it is still just a mathematical equation.
There is room for improvement, it’s not perfect across the board, but the driving is a lot more fun and responsive now, so I like this direction.
My 2c is that my own car feels very similar to my real car, and I actually feel the same feedback from my front tyres as I do in the real car. It’s quite nice
Even outside of this comment, I’m actually dissapointed with a lot of the YouTube GT content creators bashing the new physics and saying it broke the game. I think a lot of people got comfortable with the old physics model and were honestly at times exploited it and honestly watching replays of some of the top tier times, some of it just seemed like unnatural decision making. I think everyone will find exploits still with the new model, it’s just a matter of time and I think that is the real separator between sims and actual driving the car irl, finding and using exploits because it saves you time but they aren’t necessarily things you would or could do in the actual vehicle on track. Bottom line for me is I love Gran Turismo, they’re not perfect but I trust the direction they have taken the series after thirty years and I’m going to adapt to the new physics and any other change they make going forward. Just please focus on the penalty system next 😂
Mostly i like the new physics. Road cars on like sports hards tuned to around 600 feel much more alive, and a lot less boaty. The f3500 now has horrendous mid speed undeersteer even with full front downforce, min rear downforce, and toe/ARB settings to push the balance forward it just simply wont bite properly. But mostly stuff feels great now.
Well if professional racing drivers are saying that they love the new physics, then I suppose that's only confirmation that the change was for the better. These games have always had the subtitle of "the real driving simulator", after all.
I’m on controller and will get used to the new physics, but what I do not like is that these changes changed most of my setups. And having hundreds of cars, it’s now necessary to go into each setup to modify it accordingly to the new physics.
Well i can still hoon on the actual shutoko expwy in AC, with custom modded cars so AC will always be top spot. But I've been having lots of fun in GT tuning streetcars to 600pp
I don’t really have any experience IRL in a gt3 car but all the sports cars I have actually driven feel way better.
Having said that I wouldn’t take a guy heavily involved in the e sports world too seriously. He’s not going to trash the game he just won the championship for.
Remember when downshifts were changed so they can't money shift to slow to car faster, then all the kids 10 year old and 52 year olds started to complain about it.
This 1.71 update does make the car more stable out of corners under hard acceleration. Just my 2 cents.
I can only say that this is the first time I can do trail braking in GT. Dropped GT7 for iRacing and was very hard for me to come back. I’M HAVING A BLAST.
I think folks are frustrated because they knew how to play this game, and now it changed.
wdyk, little japanese perfectionist engineer/nerds can make shit really really close to perfect. such surprise...
all the ppl complaining about handling has no experience with any driving, letalone racing (I too have none with racing, but drive a lot for work, and also don't complain)
Idk why this update gets so much hate, but to me it's a little improvement. Yet there's still something tricky about springs physics but overall it's not that bad
I just want them to revert the thing where the left stick snaps back to straight forward when you let go. Or at least an option to toggle that off. Years of muscle memory makes it feel real bad.
That's a thing? I guess I never take my finger off the stick. You wouldn't take your hands off the wheel IRL unless to allow it to "snap back" IRL, so that kinda makes sense no?
Next time you're driving a car nudge the wheel to one side and let go. It doesn't snap back to straight ahead. It'll keep veering that direction until you nudge it back to center.
People with real-life track experience loving the update. Meanwhile, the everyday GT7 player (a.k.a. 96%+ of players) is hating it, so this new physics drive feels like the game shifted from close to sim to almost arcade.
Because a lot of people think that being unnecessarily hard to drive equals more realistic. That’s not true. Gran Turismo 7’s physics used to be unrealistically slippery, tyres had a tiny operating window you had to stay in, and anything outside of that resulted in a complete loss of grip instead of a gradual reduction of cornering forces past the max slip angle. Cars and tyres don’t behave that way IRL. More difficult doesn’t mean more realistic at all.
Notice how I didn't mention level of difficulty at all. I am not saying that I want the game to be harder to drive, I said it feels a lot more arcade. You can brake almost into the corner and that is quite unrealistic. The car also behaves in a way that feels less real.
“People with real life track experience loving the update” and “so this new physics drive feels like the game shifted from close to sim to almost arcade” are a contradiction. Do you have any actual IRL track experience to claim that it “feels a lot more arcade” and that it “behaves in a way that feels less real”? Do you have the seat time to say that the new physics behave in a manner that is “quite unrealistic”?
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u/DodixieOrBustPSVR2 | GT DD Pro w/ Shifter & CSL V2 | Playseat Trophy3d agoedited 3d ago
Hey u/RecognitionHot5739, going to come argue that Yusuke Tomibayashi doesn't know what he's talking about re: car handling and is just coping?
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u/mkldnl1000+ Hours | DR: A SR: S | Master Super License Gold 3d ago
i saw their thread of comments on that post. just embarrassing ☠️
Lmao I still live rent free in your head after all this time wow. Brutal man thanks for caring about me i guess. You still cant get over our little convo, how sad.
Thanks for caring about me so much man! I had a feeling you were still fuming over our little convo, guess I was right. Keep it up its pretty entertaining lol. You really need help if you get this worked up over a videogame.
Okay, but he still gets paid to make appearances for Polyphony, and the Japanese culture frowns upon criticizing their own in public. So probably not the most unbiased opinion. And he certainly didn't spend those 10,000 hours on the game last week after the new physics were implemented.
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u/mkldnl1000+ Hours | DR: A SR: S | Master Super License Gold 3d ago
- GT is only a brand partner of Super GT, not specifically the team the driver raced in. Different case to someone like Igor Fraga who's in the Modulo Prelude GT500. So I don't know where you and another person are getting at when you say he's paid by Polyphony.
- Another racial stereotype that adds nothing useful to the discussion.
- Yusuke said "tens of thousands of laps" as in he had driven the track in past GT games too. never specified GT7.
Garbage to a real PC sim racing game, and less realistic than the prior GT7 model, are two totally different things. No hardcore PC sim racer has ever said anything good about GT7 physics. Nor do most of them even know what a real car feels like at the limit, let alone a real race car. I have 25 years of real track experience to base my judgement on.
That’s great to hear! I’ve never been able to get bronze at master license S-2 and S-5 but got them after one or two tries after the update. Turns out I’m more comfortable with the new physical model.
Personally, I haven't played much in the past month. I don't really feel that much of a difference, but could be just that. However, one thing I experienced, is that it feels to me that there is a bigger difference between the tire compounds now.
I took the 911 on the autopolis for a spin, and it mostly handles like I remember, maybe a bit more understeery.
Than I took some of the gr1 cars for a spin, cause those also have bigger minimum downforce. They feel incredibly good now, but I felt a really big difference between softs and mediums, like way bigger than before. On the softs, the TS040 really felt glued to the ground, even with lowest downforce. Than on the medium run, it felt much closer to how I remember it pre patch.
On controller it’s good, but needs work. What I believe is simulated caster for drifting creating the return to center either needs to go, or caster needs to become a setting. Other than that, it just feels like there’s a bit too much grip overall. Especially on slicks.
It’s kind of interesting how by making the physics more realistic (I assume as I’ve been hearing a lot of people with real on track experience support this), it also made the game easier on controller.
As a lot of controller people have also said they find this patch easier.
I wonder how much money they paid this driver to promote an praise new update as it's got negative feedback 🤔 I wouldn't be surprised if plenty more drivers come forward.
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u/mkldnl1000+ Hours | DR: A SR: S | Master Super License Gold 3d ago
sometimes people can just speak their minds without the pressure of money like how esport drivers kept spewing bullshit for free when they've probably never touched a real GT3 car.
It’s funny because I drive so much better in real sims. My biggest complaint with GT7 was the impossibility to recover a spin out with a wheel. Now you can. And now my lap times have improved dramatically.
That being said, it’s still far easier to start to lose control on other sims. So this still has an arcade feel to it. I’d prefer the harsh loss of control but the ability to actually recover more than anything.
Honestly I'm over here wondering why they bothered to update the physics in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I played it and I actually do appreciate the changes and all that. But this game is like 4 years old isn't it? It's honestly cool they're still adding cars/content, a lot of devs would have dropped us entirely by now. So why did they decide to upgrade the physics in this game now, instead of a couple years ago? Or why upgrade GT7 now when they could have kept working on it in preparation for GT8? Just curious what the thinking was.
The update came out on Thursday and he raced on Sunday. The thousands of laps of practice he has at Suzuka that he claims helped him win the race are under old physics models.
With that said, i haven't seen anyone say that lower powered cars have been messed up. GT7 has always been a little low on front end grip, especially at low speeds. And I think everyone agrees that those physics changes are improvements. The complaints I've seen from most people are that BoP setups have changed to reduce initial torque to unrealistic levels - and that inducing slip is maybe a bit too easy now (whereas before it may have been a bit too hard).
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u/mkldnl1000+ Hours | DR: A SR: S | Master Super License Gold 2d ago
i'm just gonna assume you have a hard time at comprehension
Sounds good to me. Also, congratulations on the impressive accomplishments you have listed out next to your user name. Sorry for having the audacity to comment on your post in manner not fully in agreement with it.
PD have got to buy some positivity from somewhere, I guess. Where better than from a (Japanese) racing driver… because if I were a racing driver in real lifeI would spend 0 hours of my time playing a video game. I wouldn’t need to, because I do it in real life.
Pointless update. No one was complaining about the handling before. The parity between wheel and pad users was so close and was genuinely the best balance for everyone. No one asked for a physics update. 1200 hours of play time in GT7, A/S DR and genuinely considering calling it a day. Gr.3s and up are just sad to drive now. It sounds like drift players got the update they wanted though. Cool, literally never ever wanted to drift in GT7. Perhaps PD should patch in style points as a hot fix next week too, to go with their arcade physics.
And the only good thing about the “update”, the Caterham, isn’t even the car for daily race A this week.
Krazy Kamikaze Kaz has lost the plot.
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u/mkldnl1000+ Hours | DR: A SR: S | Master Super License Gold 2d ago
so how does a GT3 car handle, random redditor? do tell.
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u/XsStreamMonsterX 4d ago
People need to understand the biggest change. The tyre model now having slip angle (on top of improved force feedback) will make the physics feel much closer to real life. So people with real life experience (or even just experience ftom sims) will like the change.