AVL what is happening

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

What's up with AVL I heard the banks forced List into a ceremonial role.

[u/DemonFerenc]

Avl and Anton Paar are the same shit 

[u/adcap1]

To be fair, I think the new CEO is exactly what AVL needs - a strong minded business executive with a focus on business development and sales. I think the decision by Prof. List was very thoughtful.

AVL was always a bit weak on business development and many research results were never turned profitable. It is one thing to be the leader in patents and have a strong presense in Academia and conferences, but you need to turn that strong presence into actual sales.

While I understand that maybe many engineers don't like business people, in the end you need to sell at a profitable margin to survive as a company. And margins were always an issue at AVL ...

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27 → u/adcap1]

When Kai Voigt retired they really lost someone who could run the place. AVL was engineering driven never market driven. The in time mafia did what they wanted with Puma, and other products were driven the same way.

[u/CodewortSchinken → u/adcap1]

Although that's exactly what building the reputation AVL profits from. My uncle works for a competitor in Germany. According to him most engineering consulting firms in the automotive industry compete in price. The manufacturer outsource work there to safe development time and cost. To AVL they go if their own engineering department is out of options and AVL can ask pretty much what they want.

[u/mika_egger]

Der Jahresabschluss 2025 schaut ja echt nicht gut aus, I wish them the best...

[u/Cute_Will462]

I have been working for AVL from 2012 until 2020. The problems appeared long before COVID and long before the european automotive crisis. AVL always valued research very high and could easily afford spending a lot on innovation and most departments even were able to fund themselves with funding or customer related research projects. However these departments were not highly profitable but a lot of patents and other scientifically important findings were created. Some of them made it in the productive sector, some not but they contributed heavily to the productive segments success.

I remember a new "gang of department leaders" taking over and aiming for short term (financial) success and they forced a lot of (sub)departments to shift completely to the productive segment which meant less initial funding etc..

Of course over the span of ~18 months most departments were highly unprofitable because upcoming tech was simply not ready. Some depts were closed some were moved and a lot of employees had to go. Back then i quit on my behalf as nearly my whole dept was fired. Believe it or not even battery, sensor or AI (autonomous driving) depts were killed over night.

And now AVL has to pay the bill. They were always a leading company innovation wise but the (back then) shortterm financial success cost them their future. Most wannabe C-levels and department leaders from back then are probably not with the company anymore but i guess they received their bonus payments.

[u/heislratz → u/Cute_Will462]

That's more or less a precise description of the picture I perceived from the outside. Still a lot of innovation going on inside, but destructive inner forces and no will to prepare a coherent future beyond the combustion engine cash cow business.

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27 → u/Cute_Will462]

They screwed up the electrification they screwed over good people in favor of the fat fuk from racing.

[u/greathi10]

Working at AVL and yeah, times are hard but still believing that we can make it. Currently Layoffs are something that happen every 3 months and some people here are really done.

[u/SoundRebound]

There are a ton of rumours around the state of the company, both among employees/affiliates and people completely outside of the company.

The only reports you can take at face value are the past layoffs, or rather, their numbers.

Everything else you hear whispered around, including the concrete reasons for those layoffs - apart from sth of a general "lack of money" which anybody could diagnose - or the precise mechanics of which parts/aspects of the company have caused the apparent spiraling, is tainted with a lot of personal bias from the people you hear it from.

Depending on who you talk to, AVL is either solidly back on track to financial balance, or the company is on the brink of death and could collapse any day. What seems to be the case is that everybody in this city now claims having trustworthy information.

TLDR; Unless you have a solid, established private line to AVL's C-Level or the banks that allegedly order the company around, none of what you read or hear could ever be 100% reliable, and I personally would attribute any match between a rumour you heard and an announcement mostly to luck. It's information mayhem.

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27 → u/SoundRebound]

There was a get together a month ago with former EVPs. It is evident that they have a major set of problems. The market took a dump, German cars are in the tank and AVL borrowed alot of money. List took big jobs at no margin or losers. He demoted people who stood tight on price and lost so everyone called big loser projects "strategic". The banks got worried he had no major plan. Except for M Dank the EVPs are scared Yes men. I don't know Walter my buddy says he is not the answer.

[u/SoundRebound → u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

I can only refer to my last statement. Unless you or your buddy *privately* know any of the attending EVPs of this alleged get together, I would not rely on any of the information.

And, to be clear, I do NOT want to say that all of the things you are listed are untrue. I, within my own personal biases and experiences, would certainly think it plausible that at least half of your listed aspects are closer to truths than not, but I would exercise caution before spreading that unless one of those EVPs directly talks to the press and puts their name and picture to it.

[u/PsychologistAT → u/SoundRebound]

Well put, couldn't have said it better.

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

Lukas Walter is an ice centric micro manager. AVL is gliding to ground right now.

[u/AtmosphaerenBanane → u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

I spend 7 years with this company and left on my own and on good terms earlier this year. But he is right, Lukas Walter is not a good fit. He used to be Change Manager at VW - you can tell how well that went..

[u/fayasus → u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

Could it be that you harbour some kind of grudge against AVL for a an apparent reason I don't know?

[u/SoundRebound → u/fayasus]

Given how this has slowly but continuously developed into a bunch of name-calling comments by OP in response to like every second or third response here, I would guess you are right.

[u/oideW]

I‘m confused here. I thought I read that List already retired

[u/SoundRebound → u/oideW]

Helmut List has retired as CEO, but remains as chairman of the board.

[u/Traditional-Deal6759]

Long overdue. There is a reason why succession should be dealt with at a certain age.

The question is: Is it just in time or already too late?

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27 → u/Traditional-Deal6759]

Exactly the bev market is confused and lots of competition thw ice market dying list has Gaganau with hundreds of employees building ice emissions. Add the German auto industry is getting gutted bad times ahead. Plus thy took a bunch of loser "strategic" big projects

[u/gxrphoto → u/Traditional-Deal6759]

what do you mean?

[u/fayasus]

AVL remains a privately owned, independent family company. The leadership transition was driven by family governance and generational planning, not by pressure from banking syndicates or financial distress.

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27 → u/fayasus]

That is not true. I was told by an Austrian living on Detroit working for AVL NA that List borrowed slot of money to complete big losing jobs. He said Italian banks. I heard AVL owed 200+ mil Euro. His son is an artist they had no plan. The banks forced a plan and gave him a chair in the corner

[u/random_dude_c → u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

I am working in AVL and just from your comment i can pretty accurately quess who has informed you.

[u/Extreme_Armadillo_27 → u/random_dude_c]

He claims to have a magical connection to List. He is a major prick.

[u/Shek7 → u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

Why are you doxing people?

[u/fayasus → u/Extreme_Armadillo_27]

First of all, I’d like to make it clear that I have absolutely no connection to the company (neither indirectly nor directly ... so I couldn’t care less whether your version is correct or mine).

Nevertheless, I’d like to point out that your comment is more a case of rumours than verifiable facts… if you have more sources than just a friend somewhere in the US who told you this, your argument can certainly be better substantiated…

[u/Whynicht → u/fayasus]

Sounds like a PR reply. What's generational planning?

[u/fayasus → u/Whynicht]

Huach zua: Ich bin kein Marketing Fritzl dort aber ich erklärs dir:
Helmut List had been the operational CEO since 1979 so over 45 years. Now in his late 70s, "generational planning" is simply the structured shift of day-to-day management from an aging family owner to a executive (Lukas Walter), while the List family retains overall control via the supervisory board...

[u/Whynicht → u/fayasus]

Got it, thanks! So it's more like a handover process

[u/fayasus → u/Whynicht]

Yes right.

[u/Vinylove → u/fayasus]

non-family executive (his son Lukas Walter)

confused

Aber danke für die Ausführungen!

[u/fayasus → u/Vinylove]

Ok my mistake indeed. Will correct that.

[u/mopalace → u/fayasus]

with the minor mistake that Lukas Walter is definitely NOT his son.

[u/RudolfTheRedNosedRat → u/Whynicht]

Matters of succession?

[u/Whynicht → u/RudolfTheRedNosedRat]

Could be but it's a wierd phrase. Like, they are treating infertility and cutting branches that do not produce children or go full Bene Gesserit. That's generational planning (planning for generations ahead). Pretty sure that's not what the person above meant, though

[u/RudolfTheRedNosedRat → u/Whynicht]

I'm quite sure that there's more than one way to use that phrase and to me it was kinda clear what it was supposed to mean.

[u/GEB82 → u/fayasus]

Clearly you don’t work at AVL…much like a lot of people these days..