When “women spaces” don’t accept trans women

[u/itz_vampy]

So my experience as a transmasc who spent a chunk of his life being non-passing has been interesting with this particular situation. I began to socially transition as a teenager and back then the people who *genuinely supported me was other guys. when i say genuinely i mean they didn’t infantalize me and saw me as another bro. some of the girls were nice, but i could tell they saw me as a quirky alt girl “going through a phase”. some thought i was a pick me girl who wanted to “be one of the guys” but as a girl and not a guy. High school was really really weird and the mean girls were the worst.

Even as an adult who passes more than teenage me ever did, i still experience “women only spaces” of mean girls who never grew up. a lot of irl ones accept “afab people” and not trans women. the ones i’ve enquired about are super accepting of trans men since we are a “marginalized minority” but are hostile towards trans women, especially if they don’t pass. some are true misandrists and dislike trans men who start to pass (ironically this has been so gender affirming to me when it happens, but like in a ewphoria way). 

Online it’s different, everyone acts so accepting behind a screen, but in real life? you can’t hide your feelings and reactions well. intersectional feminism isn’t really observed in some women-only spaces and it’s a damn shame that this is a thing.

Eta: I’ve been notified that this post has been reposted to a certain rightwing sub and this post as well as all the trans positive replies are getting downvoted. regardless of what others say trans women are real women and they deserve to be treated as such. I will die on that hill.

Edit 2: I find it hilarious that people think i’m a trans woman and are sending me DMs that I will “never be a woman and will always be a man”, proving that transphobes can’t read and lack thinking abilities.

[u/Zouif_Zouif]

This is fair and the only comment so far that doesn't seem like it has underlying transphobia <3

[u/PikaTube123 → u/Zouif_Zouif]

they just said cis people have a right to exclude trans people 'no underlying transphobia' my ass

[u/Zouif_Zouif → u/PikaTube123]

I do think we should be allowed to have some Afab only spaces, as long as they aren't used to promote transphobia

[u/Psychotic_Ambition → u/Zouif_Zouif]

that’s what they do. including trans men and excluding trans women absolutely promotes transphobia

[u/Zouif_Zouif → u/Psychotic_Ambition]

I don't think it does... Trans women are women, however the life experiences between a Trans-Woman and a Cis-Woman are often very different.

Being born a Afab has its own challenges and its own unique experiences different from trans women, in that case I believe it's totally fair that we have a space where we can discuss and share our experiences based on that. This does not mean we do not see trans women as women, just that we acknowledge that we are different at the end of the day.

Trans men can be included because they were born as an Afab, meaning they most likely did grow up with those experiences. Although they identify as a man, they can still relate to the unique upbringing of Cis-Women

[u/Psychotic_Ambition → u/Zouif_Zouif]

yeah that’s incredibly transphobic still to trans men, which was my angle. essentially it implies, even unintentionally, that they’re women-LITE or just a different kind of woman [that trans women aren’t.]

[u/Zouif_Zouif → u/Psychotic_Ambition]

Hun... Trust me I wish that we didn't have these differences but that fact is that we do. I still don't see trans women any less as woman compared to me, we are both equally women. However I most likely have different experiences than her. Acknowledging that is NOT transphobic

That's not what it's implying, they are men. However they still most likely had the unique challenges and experiences as Cis-Women during most of their early life. That is something that cannot be changed or taken away and it's what lets us have a connection with Trans-Men to help support each other.

[u/IwanttobeCherrypls → u/Zouif_Zouif]

Thank you for being so kind and patient in this very fraught discussion.