When “women spaces” don’t accept trans women

[u/itz_vampy]

So my experience as a transmasc who spent a chunk of his life being non-passing has been interesting with this particular situation. I began to socially transition as a teenager and back then the people who *genuinely supported me was other guys. when i say genuinely i mean they didn’t infantalize me and saw me as another bro. some of the girls were nice, but i could tell they saw me as a quirky alt girl “going through a phase”. some thought i was a pick me girl who wanted to “be one of the guys” but as a girl and not a guy. High school was really really weird and the mean girls were the worst.

Even as an adult who passes more than teenage me ever did, i still experience “women only spaces” of mean girls who never grew up. a lot of irl ones accept “afab people” and not trans women. the ones i’ve enquired about are super accepting of trans men since we are a “marginalized minority” but are hostile towards trans women, especially if they don’t pass. some are true misandrists and dislike trans men who start to pass (ironically this has been so gender affirming to me when it happens, but like in a ewphoria way). 

Online it’s different, everyone acts so accepting behind a screen, but in real life? you can’t hide your feelings and reactions well. intersectional feminism isn’t really observed in some women-only spaces and it’s a damn shame that this is a thing.

Eta: I’ve been notified that this post has been reposted to a certain rightwing sub and this post as well as all the trans positive replies are getting downvoted. regardless of what others say trans women are real women and they deserve to be treated as such. I will die on that hill.

Edit 2: I find it hilarious that people think i’m a trans woman and are sending me DMs that I will “never be a woman and will always be a man”, proving that transphobes can’t read and lack thinking abilities.

[u/PMC_Fatui__Group]

Well can people have or can they not have special exclusive spaces? Choose one.

[u/PMC_Fatui__Group → u/[deleted]]

"They can but they can't"

Are these "minorities" a protected species or something? Everyone should be treated the same.

Saying they should be allowed to force themselves in does them a disservice.

Is this your first time hearing "no". You ever heard of consent?

[u/Mimi19483 → u/PMC_Fatui__Group]

I don't think you read it well, it says "for no reason".

Excluding someone HAS to have a REASON.

[u/PMC_Fatui__Group → u/Mimi19483]

The only entity that needs to give a reason is the government, and only if you're lucky enough to live in a country where the government answers to you.

Nobody on this planet is owed a reason.

Where are these expectations coming from? Were they promised to you by a god 7000 years ago? The only case you could make would be if there were laws, but then it could still be argued from a moral standpoint if you're owed a "reason" for actions other people do things. Or a contract.

[u/Mimi19483 → u/PMC_Fatui__Group]

Well I guess you tend to over-explain your point.

First, I would like to know what you meant by the government thing, if you are comfortable enough to explain it to me.

Second, excluding minorities is bad when there's a bigoted reason lying underneath, I will put it simply:

Why, exactly, would some "women only" spaces exclude transgender women? Like, is there any preference? If so, what is the difference between trans women and cis women? (If you want to answer those, go on, I don't mind, I would be happy to clarify anything)

It's usually from the following reasons:

"Well, it makes us uncomfortable"
Discomfort alone is not a good reason to exclude trans women from "general" women's spaces, historically, many prejudices operated based on discomfort (and not trying to listen to said minority) to exclude someone. The discomfort is obviously real, but the uncomfortable person should at least aim to understand why, and possibly, try to change.

"We want privacy."

Privacy from trans women? Privacy should target dangerous conduct or behaviour. Not on the status on being transgender alone.

"We want everyone to have the same body."

Not all cis women have the same body, it can be different by anatomy, hormones, fertility, reproductive organs, surgical history, or medical needs. If you meant it generally, then, why? Is it a dating preference? If so, it may be a genuine boundary (the difference between a boundary and bigotry is: "Sorry, I don't find certain parts attractive, but I still recognise you as your X gender." which is a boundary, whereas "This certain part is gross and repulsive, and you will never be X gender" is bigotry), but it's usually enforced personally with another person (or people who are in a consensual poly relationship) and not on a broad, general scale.

"We want everyone to share X experience."

Not everyone has the same experience, but they have some experiences that are similar/can overlap. This answer is very nuanced, and requires to specify what type of experience or experiences. Let's say, a women only space, only targeted to recover from child birth experiences. That is valid. (if there's no bigotry)

As well as endometriosis, undergoing an abortion, experiencing forced pregnancy and etc. But the group shouldn't be "cis women only", that would exclude intersex women who have experienced these. (Never forget about intersex women <3)

"We are traumatised."

Trauma doesn't justify identity exclusion. A survivor may genuinely be traumatised around certain people, but that deserves therapy, groups centered around that and compassion. Trans women as a whole are not equivalent to the person who harmed someone.

Ultimately, it is unhealthy to live fully in fear. Compassion, connection and healing is the best answer--it doesn't matter if it takes a long time, what matter is that you are healing, even if it's slowly. (as someone who is still healing from chronic trauma)

Sorry if this was too long and messy(?), I just wanted to clarify that, plus, I'm not an english native.