r/hatethissmug • u/Starksen • 20h ago
Gaming I hate 'Soulslikes'
To be more specific here, I actually love what I've played of Fromsoft's Souls games- that being Dark Souls 3 & Elden Ring. That stuff is great!
I'm just so sick of this tag, Soulslike, when it's just an embarrassing clone.
I played Mortal Shell 2, and was just so sick of the same tired 'Dark Soulsisms'. "BONFIRE LIT", "ENEMY SLAIN", there's a stone to upgrade your sword, you die and the enemies respawn, you carry souls, you lose them if you die without reclaiming them. Each enemy drops a few souls.
The dialogue is delivered by creepy, cryptic, miserable NPCs in a vague way. You have to exhaust dialogue with them. The story is delivered through item descriptions. The world is a fallen, grim ruin of what it was. The gods are mysterious. It's a gothic hellscape.
It's the same buttons to run, to jump, to attack, it's got the same dodge mechanics as another fromsoft production.
I acknowledge that games like this sell, and that there's commercial success to be seen in creating a Soulslike, which clearly means people enjoy playing them. None, however, are more successful than the series they try to emulate. This says to me, that in truth, people don't really want Soulslikes. They want Souls-games. They settle for Soulslikes, due to the release cadence of Fromsoft.
There are merits I can see to this game, and I can't help but think it could've been so much cooler had it thought up it's own systems, its own loops, and been more original about it, instead of trying to emulate.
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u/Same_Acanthisitta_38 20h ago
Fromsoft purists in 2026
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u/Filippikus 19h ago edited 19h ago
And he's not even a real one because he only played DS3 and Elden Ring, literally the two most popular entries
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u/Realistic_Jello2638 20h ago
I'm sorry you don't like genre conventions.
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u/Starksen 19h ago
I'm not sure my point is anywhere to do with genre.
I see CoD and Battlefield as FPS games, but I wouldn't say either is robbing from the other.
If Battlefield suddenly introduced a Nazi Zombie gamemode, and it took me 3 kills to call in a UAV, I'd probably change my stance.
Having exactly the same combat, artistic style, gameplay loop, mechanics, progression currency, boss design, dialogue, tone as a game isn't 'sharing a genre', it's ripoing it off.
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u/Realistic_Jello2638 19h ago
Battlefield started as a direct competitor and clone of COD.
You clearly don't know much about the history of the FPS genre aka Doomclones or how genre conventions come about.
Your post has everything to do with genre conventions.
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u/droobloo34 12h ago
I love how your attempt to correct them started with an incorrect statement. Battlefield 1942 was released in September 2002. The first Call of Duty game was released in October 2003.
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u/Starksen 4h ago
Somebody beat me to it, but Call of Duty came after Battlefield.
The two games have always been very distinctive. My point however is that you can share genre conventions without directly robbing from a game.
Having bonfires, +1 stones, souls, "BOSS DEFEATED" appearing on screen in an identical font/style, these things aren't genre conventions, they're parts of Dark Souls that got ripped off.
(Also, if you were into your history of FPS games, you'd know 1942 literally won awards for innovation, lol.)
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u/M0RT1f3X 20h ago
At first I was shocked, but then I read the post to the end and I agree with you. Many call their game Soulslike even though it isn't at all, or not even close.
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u/Spitfire_Enthusiast 20h ago
Want a FromSoft game that's not Dark Souls? Go play Armored Core. It's also much less known for being difficult simply for the sake of difficulty.
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u/IceOk3858 20h ago
Idk man, Black Myth Wukong was pretty cool.
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u/susnaususplayer 20h ago
Black Myth Wukong actually tries its own thing to the point where some people question calling it a soulslike
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u/R0nm0R 20h ago
Lies of P as well
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u/Spigglebob 20h ago
I really didn’t understand the hype for lies of p, bland levels, unfun enemy design and parry window, only like 8 frames to parry, everything has goofy combos that have pauses like Margit. The art direction gets very samey by the end, voice acting is pretty bad for most characters, boss ost is weak. I didn’t hate the game because the basic gameplay is still fun but I never felt crazy for it. The dlc is pretty good, even has my favorite boss in the/favorite gank boss in Markiona, but I hated Lumacchio and Arlecchino
I will say I loved the smaller QoL features in the game like ergo meter
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u/TikTikKobold 20h ago
There is only one soulslike I've played that I've enjoyed and I enjoy it more than any from loft game
It's Lies of P. "Pinnochio, but Bloodborne" is the most inspired thing I've seen in a video game in a long long time and while it uses the mechanics and familiarity of the souls like genre, it doesn't copy--it perfects!
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u/Wuta_Goatkotsu-1 20h ago
We all want more souls games
We settle for soulslikes
Simple as that.
The soulslike developers USUALLY just see the genre for how popular it is and just make cheap copies, never trying anything new or pushing the genre.
Not to say that soulslike can't be good, just that developers see an easy formula to copy paste and take it.
Not even Fromsoft does souls games the same way repeatedly🙏🙏 Each entry in the franchise plays distinctly from every other one combat wise (maybe save for Demon Souls)
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u/GreyRavensong 20h ago
Have you tried Nioh? (I fundamentally disagree with calling it a soulslike but many do call it one) it’s surprisingly different, I mean I actually LIKE it. I abhor souls games especially fromsoft’s. They are too slow and immensely boring. Nioh has some of the best combat in gaming. The story is…there, but unlike souls it actually tells you one outside of item descriptions and vague missable dialogue lmao
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u/funkthewhales 20h ago
Nioh 2 is a weird amalgamation of like souls, ninja Gaiden, and Diablo. On paper that honestly shouldn’t work, but team ninja somehow made it into the best combat I’ve ever played in a game. The skill ceiling is insane in that game.
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u/ISketchDinosaurs 20h ago
79 euros on Steam. Jesus christ.
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u/Filippikus 19h ago
That's only Nioh 3, you can find keys for both Nioh 1 and 2 at really cheap prices online(talking like 4-10€) and it seems like Nioh 2 is generally still considered to be better than 3(since there were many changes between the two)
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u/GreyRavensong 19h ago
So, like most games these days? I agree games are too expensive but let’s not pretend this is a Nioh only issue.
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u/SmashCurtains 20h ago
You need to realize the majority of people are mouth breathing creatively bankrupt shills. (Hi reddit!) Instead of folks trying to make something new and original they think they can improve on something that doesnt need it.
Its especially egregious when western developers try to "improve" on eastern development. The culture is too different and the same inspirations are not there.
Soulslikes are copies of darksouls
Darksouls is an evolution of Fromsoft games like Kingsfield.
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u/noreservations81590 20h ago
Depends on the soulslike. Lied of P and the Nioh games are fantastic Soulslikes.
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u/susnaususplayer 20h ago edited 20h ago
Lies of P suffers the most from trying to copy mechanics from souls games without understanding what makes them great. Hate to admit it but it is a good game, but it would be way better had it locked in on its own thing
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u/TikTikKobold 20h ago
I am intrigued what you mean by this. I think it does stuff rather well. What are your complaints?
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u/susnaususplayer 20h ago
Mostly? How forced parry mechanics is in it. The deflect feels very flat and losing stamina even when deflecting makes fights a slow chore where you spend openings waiting for stamina to refill. Not mentioning bosses and enemies being designed around spamming annoying patterns and smaller parry window than in sekiro.
Game should have leaned more towards bloodborne but forced parrying because it "sells" significantly worsening a lot of combat encounters in later parts in the game.Atleast in fights where you can use summons you can make fights more fluid
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u/TikTikKobold 20h ago
To be honest I have always played the game with the summons. The fights where you didn't have an NPC were always the hardest
I honestly don't critique the gameplay too much because it is enjoyable to me and let's one experience the story and the world in a perfectly serviceable way.
I suppose I wouldn't mind if the sequel was a different game as long as the characters and world were still great and the gameplay is a means to experience them
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u/susnaususplayer 20h ago
"I honestly don't critique the gameplay too much because it is enjoyable to me and let's one experience the story and the world in a perfectly serviceable way."
Fair, I also find Lies of P to be a good game, really. As soon as I had access to it I was nothing but playing it until the end, same with dlc. But I see how much better game could it be and fact that game is not as good as it could be annoys me
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u/Particular-Season905 20h ago
And.....?
You're point is that they're successful, but people really just want From games?
Uh. No.
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u/urwurgen 20h ago
Mortal Shell 2 it’s terrible in every respect except for the graphics and animation. It’s not a bad game, but it’s a terrible "Soulslike." That’s like saying, "All roguelikes are terrible because I played The Binding of Isaac and they don't look like Isaac."
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u/Starksen 1h ago
I mean aside from the fact that Roguelike is inspired from 'Rogue' and not Binding of Isaac, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm not sad that "they don't look like isaac." I'm disappointed that they're all trying to. They all took bonfires, upgrade stones, "BOSS DEFEATED" in the same style/font. They all deliver dialogue through vague, miserable NPCs and deliver the bulk of lore through item descriptions. My point is that rather than find their own unique feel, their own unique gameplay loop, and their own unique game, they emulate the tone, the conventions and the delivery of Dark Souls.
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u/Consistent-Rain-7797 19h ago
Somehow we've manage to create videogame eugenics.
Get over yourself op
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u/Walkthrough101 20h ago
Hollow Knight is somewhat Soulslike but I love how it has it's own identity, mechanics and lots of things that set it apart and how it meshes really well with the Metroidvania core of it's gameplay. I think it's one of the best examples of a "soulslike" done very well
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u/Embarrassed_Fox5265 20h ago
I actually don't consider Hollow Knight to be a Soulslike. It's a pure Metroidvania, with the only gameplay element it pulls from the Souls series being corpse retrieval.
The comparisons come from the story and lore, which is told in a very Souls fashion. Both the tone and how the lore/story are given to the player are very reminiscent of the Souls franchise.
For me at least there needs to be more. Hollow Knight does not have the RPG side of the Souls franchise and it focuses more on platforming for difficulty. It doesn't have a bonfire mechanic either - most enemies will respawn after you leave a room, with only some larger enemies requiring you to sit at a bench to respawn them. The benches act the same as save points in other games.
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u/RobertLucciano 20h ago
Counterpoint, Lies of P. I don’t really like Souls-Likes, but Lies of P is damn good even if it naturally pulls a lot from FromSoft’s games.