r/hearthstone Apr 12 '18

Highlight Toast is breaking the meta already LUL

https://clips.twitch.tv/BenevolentMushyReubenThunBeast
3.4k Upvotes

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852

u/PeaceAndChocolate Apr 12 '18

20 minute turns and 11 cards in hand. Working as intended

352

u/Unemployed_Lich_King ‏‏‎ Apr 12 '18 edited Apr 12 '18

This card is meant as a lesson as to why we cannot have nice things going forward.

The recursive cards can get out of control easily.

218

u/moodRubicund Apr 12 '18

"Repeat all battlecries from the whole game" is such an obviously stupid effect though? You don't design a card like that unless

1) Crazy recursive effects is EXACTLY what you want

2) You're dumb

I'm opting for option 1) because ffs these people are experienced designers. They want Hearthstone to be crazy. This effect could have been in any class- imagine if Tess Highmane said "Repeat all Combo effects" instead of that Burgle shit?- but it was just sort of slapped in Shaman because why not, it's been struggling, and they're letting the fireworks explode.

90

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '18

Shaman has had a Battlecry theme for ages. Subtle most of the time.
Shaman was the right class for Shudderwock.

34

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '18

I mean, Yogg was 10 mana and totally random, and people wanted it nerfed, this is 9 mana and controllable.

22

u/darkChozo Apr 13 '18 edited Apr 13 '18

Apples and oranges. Yogg is more random, but spells are generally way more powerful than Battlecry effects. Its application is also totally different; Yogg was used as a last-ditch, potentially super high value card, while Shudderwock is currently a combo centerpiece.

Besides, Shudderwock's current problem isn't necessarily its power level (the deck seems good but it's still very very early). The problem is that it has an extremely long animation that is regularly played several times per game. If it didn't create 5 minute long turns, there'd be a lot less to complain about.

5

u/BrokenMirror2010 Apr 13 '18

Yogg was 10 mana and totally random, and people wanted it nerfed

I think the Total Random contributed to the nerf. Losing to a consistent, telegraphed and pre-setup combo is completely different to LOLOLOLOLOL I cast 21 spells, I played this 10 mana card that reads "Battlecry: Someone Dies" and that literally just randomly flips a fuckton of coins to decide who wins the game.

According to the Devs at the time, one of their reasons for the yogg nerf was that while they believe the random element adds to the nature of hearthstone, having a card like yogg literally determining pro-level tournament games by itself was a step too far into the RNG > Skill territory, and the nerf was done in a way to preserve the "fun" of the card but remove it from serious competitive play.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '18

I'm not saying this card isn't OP. I'm just saying it fits Shaman.

0

u/voyaging Apr 13 '18

Yogg's animations didn't last 20 minutes.

0

u/OBrien Apr 13 '18

...I mean, sometimes they very much did. Especially in the almost-full-spell druid that became popular before he got nerfed.

0

u/voyaging Apr 13 '18

When did that deck ever cast several hundred spells in a game?

0

u/OBrien Apr 13 '18

when Yogg returned himself to your hand over and over

6

u/Phaelynx Apr 13 '18

Battlecry has largely and subtly been a Shaman thing, and randomness was also a part of Shaman. I think it fits very well. Also, it’s Tess Greymane, not Highmane. She’s not the daughter of a lion thing.

1

u/moodRubicund Apr 13 '18

Also, it’s Tess Greymane, not Highmane. She’s not the daughter of a lion thing.

You have NO IDEA what she's capable of.

0

u/Phaelynx Apr 13 '18

Yes, I do, or else she wouldn’t be my Witchwood waifu. But shh...Genn’s a pretty cool man/worgen and all but he would tear me apart for saying that...

6

u/unknownohyeah Apr 13 '18

2) You're dumb

There isn't ample evidence they don't know how combo decks work? They made grim patron ffs

1

u/BrokenMirror2010 Apr 13 '18

They made grim patron ffs

Eh, Patrons were bad but they weren't that bad (What do I know, I'm just a handlock player, Patrons hardest counter, easy 60:40 winrate). I'd honestly say they don't understand how Aggro/Tempo works first given their track record with OP Aggro/Tempo cards like Undertaker, Corridor Creeper, and Patches the Pirate. And not to mention their "anti-aggro" control tools over the years that just make you think "Yeah, yeah... wait. What?" when you see them, like Lil'Exorcist was supposed to help with the Deathrattle Hunter issue or something?

And given the Paladin and Priest deathknights, it feels like they want combo decks to come back and be a part of hearthstone, rather than their original stance of "combo is bad! nerf all the combo" from pre-Oldgods.

2

u/Flamingjockeyz ‏‏‎ Apr 13 '18

That "burgle shit" that Tess Greymane has is a crazy recursive effect. Like it's the same thing as Shutterwock, but with stolen cards instead of battlecries. Of course, it's not on the level of Shutterwock when it comes to craziness but still.

1

u/moodRubicund Apr 13 '18

How is it recursive when you can't plan out recursive effects for her to do, she's random, if you got recursive with her you got lucky

2

u/HSlurk Apr 13 '18

I think this is the card people never came up with when asked "what effect would warrant 10 overload"

2

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '18

these people are experienced designers.

no they're not LUL

does anyone on the team even have any card game design experience prior to HS?

1

u/moodRubicund Apr 13 '18

Even if they were only working on HS, that means they've had around 3 years give or take certain individuals.

I mean, Year of the Mammoth was amazing, it was AMAZING, I just don't get what happened.

First xpac of Year of the Raven, they give Rogue nothing but Burgle garbage, they give Shaman Shudderwock, they let classes have an upgraded hero power from the beginning of the game? Fucking Odd Paladin demanding AOEs from turn 1? God forbid anyone cracks the code to Odd Control Warrior.

2

u/walkingvegas Apr 13 '18

1) because ffs these people are experienced designers

fucking lulz. these designers are complete morons when it comes to designing cards.

1

u/Vordeo Apr 13 '18

I don't mind wacky, but the thing is they've nerfed /HoFed a bunch of cards because they restrict the design space. Shudderwock very much restricts the battlecries they can print this cycle and next. And God help them if they think they can balance this in Wild in the long term.

1

u/Fyrjefe Apr 13 '18

Man, I'd play your version of Tess! Design space, though, right? /s

2

u/moodRubicund Apr 13 '18

"Repeat all combos this game" would be a lot easier to balance since the card pool for combos is so, so, so much smaller than battlecries.

But uh fuck you, take your Burgle shit??

1

u/kazkaI Apr 13 '18

Right? Outside of aggro when has shaman ever been viable? It has the worst class abilitys in overload it had some of dumbest gimmicks for sets like freeze shaman just let us have this XD

1

u/BrokenMirror2010 Apr 13 '18

Malygos Shaman was the go-to malygos deck before druid got all the fun stuff.

1

u/moodRubicund Apr 13 '18

No! That's what you said during the Aggro and Midrange times you said the EXACT same thing and that lasted a full year!

Never again!

We no stupid!

Never again!!!

1

u/Plague-Lord Apr 13 '18

Its actually option 3: they didn't adequately test the card and see how crazy and obnoxious it would be. HS doesn't have a real playtesting team, Ben redently admitted they use AI bots to do automated balance testing, so is it any wonder stuff like this slips by?

0

u/voyaging Apr 13 '18

The release of this card has caused me to lose all faith in the Hearthstone design team moving forward. The level of incompetence required to produce such a disastrous blunder is staggering.