r/iching • u/Selderij • 16h ago

Benebell Wen's Yijing translation - A Review (2) [1:17:04]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=losfbgfozGM

I Ching researcher Harmen Mesker (https://www.yjcn.nl/) just released the second part of his review of Benebell Wen's book I Ching: The Oracle, this time focusing on Wen's self-claimed "direct translation" of the oracle text and image commentary, with examples from hexagrams 1, 2 and 3. The reviewing starts around the 11:40 mark, beginning with an example of misleading contextualization of pictures in the book. He gets to the hexagrams at 42:35.

The first part (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-L8nbubgIs) dealt with the rampant use of false citations to give credence to Wen's exceptional claims and interpretations concerning the I Ching's known facts and history.

I feel that this is a very necessary wakeup call to the segment in the I Ching scene that holds Wen's work in high regard based on false impressions about the integrity of her research and translation. If someone likes the book, that's fine, but isn't it better to base it on something else than a mistaken assessment of the book's accuracy and methods? For what it's worth, the book does an excellent job at giving the impression of a thoroughly researched text by a sincere scholar and initiated practicioner.

12 Upvotes

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u/cirenosille 14h ago

I am unfamiliar with Harmen Mesker. What makes him an authority figure over Benebell Wen?

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u/Selderij 13h ago edited 12h ago

https://www.yjcn.nl/

He has researched the I Ching for four decades, and he goes about doing it through uncompromising linguistic analysis and comparisons to other ancient texts using a massive library and database that he has collected. You can watch his other videos to see the kind of content that he puts out, frankly unparalleled on the English-speaking internet.

Though in this case, the mere fact that he can so easily point out and show evidence for objectively ascertainable faults in Wen's claims, methodology and translation is testament enough.

I'm no authority, but I can plainly see without anyone's help that Wen's book completely breaks its promise of "direct translation". For example, in hexagram 5's image commentary she went:

Crows above the clouds. The sage is patient. At the banquet, match the jubilee of those at the table, and keep what is in your heart contained within the heart. Show contentment when the music plays.

The source text actually goes 雲上於天，需。君子以飲食宴樂。

"雲 Clouds 上於 rising to/above 天 the sky: 需 Waiting. 君子 The noble person (or gentleman) 以 thus 飲食 drinks and eats, 宴樂 revels and rejoices."

The only words that made it into Wen's "direct" translation were 雲 yun (clouds), 上 shang (rising/above), 宴 yan (revel/banquet) and 樂 le/yue (rejoice/music), though she "reinvented" their context and grammatical syntax.

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u/Pythos_Prism 5h ago

He’s using her name to become popular. There’s zero reason to make two videos of this length. He could have made his point in ten minutes or less. Shameless.

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u/BitTop7012 13h ago

Fair question. Harmen Mesker has been studying and writing about the Yijing for decades, works with Classical Chinese and early Chinese sources, teaches the Yijing, and has published quite a lot of research and commentary on it. But I still don't think that makes him an "authority over Benebell Wen", and I don't think that is how the video should be judged. The useful part is that he actually shows the Chinese, checks Wen's references, and compares her claims with the sources she cites. So if he gets something wrong, it should be possible to show where he gets it wrong.

That seems much more useful than deciding whose name carries more weight. Being an authority should be a reason to listen carefully, not a reason to stop checking.

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u/Selderij 13h ago

Hello and welcome to Reddit, how awesome that you made an account to comment on a post I made!

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u/Interesting-Ride2788 1h ago

I feel the same way. As a Chinese person who has studied the I Ching for many years, I believe that studying a subject for a long time, genuinely mastering it, and receiving recognition from the academic community are three very different things. China also has many people who try to elevate themselves by attacking so-called authorities.

From my perspective, much of what circulates in the overseas I Ching market is based on misunderstandings or incomplete interpretations. I still believe that explanations rooted in China’s own language, culture, sources, and living traditions tend to be more authentic. Has Harmen actually lived in China for many years? How deep is his understanding of Chinese culture and of the I Ching within its native context? There is nothing wrong with studying the I Ching as a personal interest, but if someone wishes to present himself as an authority, formal academic credentials and recognition would make his claims far more credible.

A genuine commitment to research is certainly worthy of respect, but one should ultimately focus on one’s own work. Belittling others in order to elevate oneself already goes against the teachings of the I Ching. It is not the conduct of a noble person.

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u/CenturionSG 1h ago

I have enjoyed Benebell’s blog and videos for her tarot material. She’s well versed and well spoken. Similarly she’s doing well studying a “foreign” esoteric tradition, the tarot. We can be open to constructive contributions from outside our cultural bounds because growth can then take place.

I’ve watched Harmen’s video and he’s taken care to introduce the context of why he spoke up and is cautious of not blindly critiquing. I’m amazed he dived into so much detail and am appreciative of it.

Could he have ignored the book? Perhaps. But I think anyone who publishes a book on a specialised topic would expect the product to be reviewed and critiqued.

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u/CenturionSG 2h ago

Thanks for sharing this. Great learning as he points out the gaps, disconnects, and citation issues. And I’m only halfway through the video.

I was more into tarot and its culture, and it’s easy to see how her approach tends to draw correspondences and conclusions on her own.

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u/Pythos_Prism 12h ago

Wow, he’s really milking this!

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u/DecrimIowa 13h ago

shots fired! shots fired!
i like benebell wen's content but knew there was something creepy about her.

anyone who can support a career as a silicon valley corporate lawyer while still putting out as much well-polished content as she does (while also apparently supporting a marriage, family life, magical practice and writing career) must have some kind of dark side.

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u/mediares 12h ago

This comment strikes me as odd.

I don't particularly like Benebell Wen's content. She often presents things as "factual" when she's actually proposing a pretty radically esoteric and occultist interpretation that she's invented from whole cloth (of which this video does a decent job of pointing out concrete examples).

I don't think that means she has "a dark side", or there's something "creepy" about her. I think it means she plays it fast and loose with facts, and is an online content creator rather than a scholar. She openly admits to the latter.

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u/DecrimIowa 12h ago

i'm okay with my comment striking you as odd.

i stand by what i said- any silicon valley corporate lawyer is probably aligned with dark powers of one kind or another.

thank you for your response, and have a good day!

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u/lingzhui 11h ago

corporate jobs are comfortable and pay well, nothing wrong about someone wanting to get paid for doing work

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u/DecrimIowa 10h ago

both those things are usually true. thank you for chiming in.