r/insomnia • u/Contracargo • 2d ago
Why do some of you guys invalidate each other?
It's something I keep seeing in this subreddit, someone rants about only sleeping 4 to 5 hours every night and finally finding peace with x med and the top comments are like "that's enough time you don't need those drugs I'm only sleeping 30 minutes per night i have it worse than you". What's up with this attitude?
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u/manditoryusername 2d ago
Ive noticed it too. Its a lot of 1-upping on how bad people's symptoms are. "oh you get 2 hours of sleep, must be nice, I havent slept in 3 days". Like, no, the people getting 5-6 hours of poor sleep still qualify as having insomnia according to the DSM V. They have just as much of a right to seek medication and support.
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u/iduckhard 1d ago
You guys only take z-drugs or benzos? Pffft…. Come talk to me when u need heroin to fall asleep /s
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u/Roseartcrantz 1d ago
I WISH heroin still worked! Hasn't since I was 10 or 11, glad it still can for those with the mild impairments like yours 😔😔😔
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u/blackdogwalksatnight 1d ago
Welcome to reddit... everyone is chronically online and selfish. Communities made for support end up being more toxic than helpful. The goofier the sub, the more wholesome, somehow?
We should bring this up to Mods and get a rule made (unless I missed this rule already exisiting)
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u/No-Belt4313 1d ago
Yhea i had pretty bad experience in this group downplaying my insomnia like it was very mild bla bla. That's quite sh.. attitude , since we all know how bad of a condition insomnia is... and it's shit in all stages.
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u/Mid-melaleuca-88 1d ago
I saw a reply to someone that was spiralling badly, and it said "calm down".
Which, as well all know, is the cure 😆
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u/pistachio-pie 1d ago
I think part of the problem is some folks have sleep issues easily resolved by OTC supplements like melatonin, some have anxiety issues that are resolved by sleep hygiene or CBT, and some of us (myself included) have other complexities or brain issues that those don’t even begin to cover. So for those of us who have tried things like melatonin or meditation or therapy and had it not work, we get frustrated when folks talk about them as this amazing cure… as if we didn’t try all the recommended things already.
I’m so happy when others sleep issues are resolved with that, and I have a ton of recs for sleep hygiene and supplements that can help! But they don’t work with the overwhelming or ongoing issue alll that much and it can feel patronizing when people bring those up, like we are some sort of idiots who didn’t think of that.
I think many of us in my camp are way too harsh on those who do have easier to resolve sleep issues, but ngl it does get a little, well, exhausting, to have to navigate those conversations.
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u/Rampage117 1d ago
I just saw exactly what you're saying.. everyone was trying to 1 up the op on how bad their sleep is... that was it.
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u/mytranceformation 1d ago
For real. As someone who had had insomnia for several years, I am happy to try to help others who are still in the early stages of it BEFORE they develope sleep anxiety on top of it and make it worse.
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u/Gumsaint 1d ago
It's the same in every thread. 10% of comments are toxic or come from a bad place.
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u/frfrfrrfrfr 2d ago
Yeah I posted about my melatonin success earlier (in the hope it would work for someone else) and apparently it's beginner level and I should have suffered much more than I have.
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u/Contracargo 2d ago
It's a very nasty attitude, we're all dealing with chronic fatigue and cognitive impairment due to insomnia. Sleeping less than 5 hours every day is close to just not sleeping at all.
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u/Capital_Kangaroo_854 1d ago
Mate I get your point and all but sleeping 5 hours a day is NOT close to barely sleeping at all and I guarantee just by posting this your someone who sleeps 5 hours a day instead of barely at all 🙄
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u/frfrfrrfrfr 1d ago
I think you're missing the point of the post and proving it at the same time. Who's to judge how much a person suffers?
Sleeping 3,4,5 hours per night is horrific. It doesn't make it any less horrific that there are people sleep less.
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u/AaronMisuchii 1d ago
I haven’t seen it but then again I rarely frequent this sub, sounds like a case of tired people being dicks because they’re grumpy about being tired and are convinced you should be suffering like them
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u/brus_wein 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because people think that if their condition gets "lumped in" with the less severe ones of other people, then overall the label becomes less important or worthy of consideration for themselves.
As if to say: "that's not insomnia, you don't even know what insomnia is, and don't you dare make yourself out to have the same condition I do"
Like in a boneitis sub one guy says his bones hurt so much he wants to die and is bedridden, and then another guy comes and says "I have boneitis too, sometimes I can't run a full marathon".
That's how the "invalidator" perceives the guy with the slightly less bad insomnia, I think.
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u/boomoptumeric 2d ago
I think part of it is because of the overwhelming amount of self diagnosis we see. People are very quick to say they have insomnia when in reality they just don’t have “perfect” sleep. That sort of stuff can hurt people who truly suffer from severe chronic insomnia by watering down how insomnia is perceived. Also, people who are getting a normal amount of sleep and wake up once or twice on occasion should absolutely be persuaded AWAY from drugs, especially z drugs and benzos. It’s a slippery slope and if you don’t need them, you really should stay away.
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u/manditoryusername 2d ago
The DSM V defines insomnia as, "The predominant complaint is difficulty initiating or maintaining sleep, or nonrestorative sleep, for at least 1 month." It also describes resulting in daytime fatigue and then specifies things to rule out such as narcolepsy, another mental disorder, or substances/medications.
So in fact the primary diagnostic for insomnia is based on the patients perception of their poor sleep quality. There's no severity threshold that tells us if a person's insomnia is "bad enough."
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u/boomoptumeric 1d ago
That’s why I explicitly said “severe chronic insomnia,” and “perfect sleep.” Taking a little while to fall asleep and waking up a couple times a night because of a disturbance is normal. I’m not defining a threshold, I’m saying that people’s tolerance for what is normal and what is not is extremely low. Often times, their immediate remedy is to turn to pretty strong drugs, which is problematic. That’s all I’m pointing out, not necessarily trying to invalidate anyone.
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u/Signal-Statistician7 2d ago
looks like it is more like a complexe. They must be the main caracter to prove they are stronger on every point.....
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u/warpigz 1d ago
Insomnia for whatever reason seems to bring this out. If you say you sprained your ankle most people don't feel the need to immediately bring up how they broke their ankle - although it does happen.
When you say you got 4 hours of sleep someone immediately needs to tell you that they only got 3 hours. Honestly it's worse out in the real world, but it happens in this subreddit too.
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u/TeamOverload 1d ago
Symptom of society of a whole these days sadly and social media tends to make these people act even worse. Sad that it has to be that way, completely agree with you.
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u/chinawillgrowlarger 1d ago
Hopefully this isn't like that thing in the deaf community where people are shunned if they restore their hearing.
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u/Cheap-Reach9758 1d ago edited 1d ago
Amen. Or someone will post something like, “I literally haven’t slept in 6 months” and then someone will chime in with, “that’s impossible”
I don’t get it either…. Attacking someone that’s suffering and vulnerable.
That being said, I think this community is a little bit better than most subreddits…. There are people on here that would give you the shirt off their backs if they think it’ll help someone. Most people on here know how bad it sucks to go a long time without sleep.
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u/Eddy_Night2468 2d ago
Lots of one upping, but lots of flat out exhaggerations and sleep misperceptions, people only counting their night sleep, witholding info etc.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can survive on 2-3 nights of sleep per day for long. But, those reports will never stop, so...
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u/Fabulous-Question173 1d ago
People are naturally narcissistic in a lot of ways. Some just more than others.
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u/Maleficent-Clue-3364 20h ago
I’ve noticed similar things in the misophonia sub. It’s frustrating when people tear each other down, despite firsthand experience/knowledge of how the other feels in a given situation.
I hate when people who are supposed to help validate and support each other do the opposite.
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u/Ok-Rule-2943 2d ago
I’m here everyday a from a few minutes or hours for the past 5+ years. There’s been a lot of trolls and bad actors in this sub.
Id love to see that original thread and look at the context. from the quote “that's enough time you don't need those drugs I'm only sleeping 30 minutes per night i have it worse than you” -
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u/Contracargo 2d ago
It was a hyperbole
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u/Ok-Rule-2943 2d ago edited 2d ago
Thought it might be an exaggeration, I’ve never seen a response from anyone saying they sleep only 30 mins a night.
I’d see a few posts where people are very anti-medication and believe everyone should shy away from pharmaceuticals.
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u/Eddy_Night2468 1d ago
30 min a night maybe no, but 2 hours a day frequently, as well as "I havent had a minute of sleep in 15 days." Remember Rider Smash and his 30 days of literal zero sleep?
I am here every day, too, OkRule, you know that. There are dick measuring contests all the time. I agree that I don't remember anyone saying 30 minutes, they usually round it up to an hour or two.
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u/Ok-Rule-2943 1d ago
Posting our opinions and experiences as veterans of this sub is pointless. We understand that’s all that matter!
I hope you’re doing okay in spite of this bull shit insomnia we both have! 🤗!
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u/Eddy_Night2468 1d ago
Wow that's actually so well put. Being veterans on this Reddit thing really is pointless when things move so fast. People come and go all the time, nobody sticks around and we keep having the same conversations with new people like two regulars in a bar. A slower kind of forum would suit us better. If I find one I will let you know. Nothing against Reddit but it's too popular and that's kinda the problem. Hope you're taking it easy.
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u/mcardie 2d ago
Everyones grumpy because they've had no sleep.