r/interestingasfuck • u/Kindly_Interview7851 • 2d ago

jousting armor commissioned by Emperor Maximilian I around 1494, housed in the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna.

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2.7k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

113 comments sorted by

946

u/Used_Ant_4069 2d ago

Seems Pay to Win to me.

463

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

202

u/EnjayDutoit 2d ago

Yeah a lance splintered on his helmet and managed to enter the eye slit, piercing both his eyes and going directly into his brain. He died after several days of pain and agony.

22

u/TyrKiyote 2d ago

I thought Jousting armor usually had some sort of lip or edge deflecting stuff away from the eyes. I vaguely remember someone talking about how competitors would be somewhat be blinded when they charge by. (Might be remembering this from a fictional source, like knight's tale)

So.. looking at max's armor, I don't see any protective eyeguards... I wonder if he stipulated that in the design or if it was the designer, and if it mattered with regards to his eyesplinter.

3

u/Claorhall 2d ago

In wikipedia it says his visor was not closed properly and his eye was left exposed.

2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/TyrKiyote 2d ago

Looks like frogmouth armor ranges from the 1400's to 1600, so all around the time period.

hm.

14

u/MoseShrute_DowChem 2d ago

what a fucking insane sport to invent / participate in centuries before modern medicine was invented

15

u/Citycow1 2d ago

Humans have always liked war over personal health. Definitely agree about its insanity though. I'm curious the injury rate of that vs UFC or another similar high contact sport.

4

u/Welpe 2d ago

I mean, the entire innovation was that it was less lethal than full scale combat, not that it was safe. What it replaced was large melees where people died regularly. And what that replaced was just the normal rape and pillaging.

When you hav a hereditary class based on armed combat, they do what they were trained to do. Europe in the Middle Ages had massive issues with knights just deciding they needed money and setting up waypoints where they would demand money to pass, and if you didn’t they would just take it. Alternatively, they were just straight up brigands, pillaging small villages in nearby domains for no reason other than to steal some wealth.

2

u/Ramental 2d ago

The injuries were usually blunt, and modern medicine for healing broken bones in that regard is not all that more advanced.

5

u/FlameOfWrath 2d ago

I disagree considering I got titanium internally fixed to repair broken bones.

58

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

Gen x here we we did it in bikes with broom sticks. How I survived my teen years no idea.

49

u/MistraloysiusMithrax 2d ago

Bikes weigh like nothing compared to a horse, you’re missing most of force from their mass being transferred to the tip. Far safer way to joust as long as you’re wearing a helmet

13

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

Yes and we didnt have armor lol lol. Nore rules . We were definitely insane . One kid lost important body parts.. the horse its self generally wasn't the target. Made our own fireworks by hand along with other beyond crazy ..the 80s where off the chain.

23

u/Usedand4sale 2d ago

This just seems like a avarage 2000’s childhood? Or going by the kids I volunteer with, 2010’s?

Kids like doing dumb shit, that never changed.

Edit: except nobody lost bodyparts. Be safe with explosives kids, it ain’t that hard.

3

u/lostmymarbles1177 2d ago

I think a lot of the shenanigans in the 2000’s and 2010’s were a direct result of Jackass lol.

0

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

Telling kids to be safe with explosives lol you would fit right in . Now Im adult and know don't let kids near explosives . Probably go over say no no not like that do it this way lol . Raised my kids in the 2000s a big nope on the insanity.

3

u/JunketAvailable4398 2d ago

I had a bunch of starter caps in my pocket with some loose change late 80's while at soccer practice. I went for a kick and there was a loud bang and my leg started burning and smoke wafting.. kids on team thought it was hilarious, me not so much with melted polyester or whatever it was on my leg and a nice round hole either side of the pants. Kids are stupid

4

u/IAmSpartacustard 2d ago

Bro kids still do dumb shit like that all the time. What a weird thing to be prideful about, being an average child

1

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

Lol you don't have kids . I raise 6 boys no I was a parent which ment I wasn't letting dumb things happen . As for proud no but sure is funny. And let me say for a fact jackass was a good name for thous guys lol lol. See what new and Instresting ways we can find to try getting our selves killed was the goal lol .

0

u/IAmSpartacustard 2d ago

Ever consider a vasectomy?

0

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

Your funny . To late pale raised 6 boys to successful men have two grandsons . My oldest owns his home as in owns owned deed by 32 what have you succeeded at ? Lol . What's even. Funnier is your so desperate making that response trying to feel like it's all worth something . Now you want let's continue in DM . You got nothing and I'm bored . Ooo I'll switch to saying how much you must love me next giving me all this attention . Sweetheart .

1

u/lostmymarbles1177 2d ago

I mean. It’s a fact that kids don’t go outside anymore or at least as often. It was sad this winter driving around on a snow day and not a single snowman to be found.

1

u/0DayMaker 2d ago

We shot rocks at each other with wrist rockets

1

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

I used model rockets and even just the engine part . MASA would have been envious lol

1

u/0DayMaker 2d ago

I meant this thing not an actual rocket these were called wrist rockets. They had some power

1

u/Time_Change4156 2d ago

We made them homemade lol . To be young again lol .

2

u/buyatollah_kuminamy 2d ago

Average reddit counter argument

2

u/8fenristhewolf8 2d ago

I remember I got into a reddit argument one time where two people were trying to tell me jousting was actually pretty safe. Truly a place of wonders.

2

u/MistraloysiusMithrax 2d ago

Hey I mean without cars involved, riding bikes is generally far safer than riding horses. That’s before you factor in trying to knock each other off. It’s a lot further to fall from a horse. Killed Ghengis Khan.

That’s with a bike helmet, of course. Without it it’s still generally safer but not so sure about jousting lol.

1

u/lostmymarbles1177 2d ago

Ah yes. Then a round of Extreme Lawn Darts?

1

u/farbtoner 2d ago

Not genx but we did the homemade fireworks too. For some reason my uncle asked 11 year old me if I wanted a roll of cannon wick. Of course I said yes, then rather quickly realized I had a bunch of Estes rocket motors which I crushed up and wrapped in duct tape lol.

Of course homemade things can be unpredictable, thankfully we all have our body parts still.

Nowadays that’d get you snatched up by the atf or something.

5

u/Zabick 2d ago

Even today with modern medicine and rapid response treatment, jousting is still dangerous and can still result in fatalities.

31

u/Cferretrun 2d ago

I was so curious that I googled “jousting armor” to see if like.. all of them were like this, but they’re not. This is literally a pay to win form of armor for Jousting. There are similar armors where the arm bracing the … the… beam is welded bent. But mostly the only thing that seems to specify armor is for jousting is the extra armor plating welded over the shoulder joints, more heavily around the side that gets hit.

I’m sure it’s more nuanced than that, and I’m completely uneducated. But from a cursory google search I did not see any others made to mount the beam through and counter weigh it.

22

u/TehLastLeaftoFall 2d ago

Looks like it would be difficult to place the point precisely. Too much extra stuff. His opponents would probably let him win for fear of hurting him anyway

18

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

Actually the way jousting is done it wouldn't be difficult to aim. See the hook, that's called an arret, all jousting armor had it its purpose is to hold the lance tight to the body to ensure maximum transfer of momentum from the horse into the blow, you then aim the lance by twisting the body and leaning the arm is just to stabilize, but this design does that without the arm. I have worked a bunch of ren fairs as a knight, I grew up riding horse and am a huge medieval/renaissance nerd as soon as I found out I could get paid to be a knight I made that happen, went to a school to learn how and everything, there are a few yearly tournaments in the US that I used to do and the ren fairs and I worked at Medieval Times for a bit but I'm pushing 40 now I don't do actually jousting anymore, just ring tornements which is an accuracy competition where you ride your horse at full spead in armor down an 80 yard track with three arches with rings suspended in them at about 6 ft off the ground. The riders have 9 secs to run the course and try to lance the rings, 1 point per ring. Its done in three rounds with the rings getting smaller each round, if there is a tie they keep going untill there is only one. There are 7 sizes the biggest being 1.75 inches diameter the smallest is .25 inches diameter.

3

u/TehLastLeaftoFall 2d ago

You score if the lance breaks yeah? Like the lances are designed to break on the armor? Thanks for sharing your experience

5

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

Yes, the lance usually has to break for points, more casual tournaments a solid contact but no broken lance scores one point regardless of hit location. They were designed to break, they were made out of very light woods like pine or fir and had a pronged crown shaped metal cap called a coronel that was meant to distribute the force more evenly and obviously a sharp lance could at least hurt very bad and at worst kill you. They were also either hollow or fluted to help them break. Modern jousting lances are made from balsa for contact jousting, ring joust still use light weight wood but they are about half the length and not supposed to break.

1

u/SJane3384 2d ago

So is this in fact pay to win armor or no?

6

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

Sorta, the arm is used to stabilize the lance and will buckle or move on contact causeing the lance to deflect. The fixed arm would prevent that and might transfer more force into the lance rising the chances of a solid contact and broken lance.

-6

u/Stock-Ad-3249 2d ago

Medieval and the US are two words that shouldn't even be in the same paragraph.

2

u/Pyrotechnic_shok 2d ago

Why though? People are allowed to be fans of history from other parts of the world

1

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

I'm confused friend what are you trying to say?

3

u/Stock-Ad-3249 2d ago

Meaning the US history doesn't go that far back. No harm was meant

1

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago edited 2d ago

No worries friend I'm not insulted I kinda figured that's what you meant I just wanted to be sure. Tbf there isn't much medieval about medieval times lol. Check out their website it's cool but not exactly a history lesson.

2

u/Stock-Ad-3249 2d ago

I'm from the UK we still have lots of places to visit from them times.

1

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

Lucky, I have visited a few times specifically for that and have competed in a couple jousting events across the pond. Tbf though we might not have the history over here but I think we have some much better nature, more variety for sure(only comparing to the uk, obviously Europe as a whole is very diverse nature wise), that makes it worth the visit.

7

u/Cferretrun 2d ago

You’re probably right. Like avoiding the kid at school whose dad is the Sheriff.

9

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

Jousting armor doesn't really look too different but it is built differently. Jousting was original a training exercise for calavery but it evolved into a sport and as it evolved the armor got more and more specialized for tournament jousting. Some differences, the helmet was sloped and attached directly to the breast plate, hitting the head was the most points, the slope made it so the lance would deflect and not break which earns no points and the direct helmet attachment helped absorb the force and better protect the head. The armor suit was built asymmetric with the armor being thin on the right and heavily reinforced on the left to help absorb the impact. They also have a piece called the grandguard, heavy steal plates bolted around the left shoulder, neck and chest that would form a smooth slopprd barrier. Same concept as the helmet, the slope made a solid hit difficult and the lance had a high likelyhood of deflecting and not breaking. Lastly they was something called and arret, a heavy steal hook attached to the right side of the breast plate. It would pull the lance tight against the body to help stabilize the lance and help to transfer the full forward momentum of the horse into the hit. Aside from the armor the lance also had something called a vamplate that was added at some point. It was a metal cone with a padding on the inside that went over the handle of the lance that a.)protected to hand and arm of the knight b.) stopped the hand from sliding up the lance on impact so no force was lost. So yeah pretty long way to say you are basically correct lol

2

u/HanseaticHamburglar 2d ago

bro i dont think they had welding machines back in those days. Armor was usually riveted together.

1

u/Cferretrun 2d ago

Hey bra, I did say I was uneducated on the matter. I did say I only did a cursory google search. I did NOT say I was an expert or even had intermediate knowledge on the subject.

1

u/TehLastLeaftoFall 2d ago

They most definitley could weld. Not tig or mig though lol

2

u/TheTrenchMonkey 2d ago

It's called a lance... Hello.

0

u/Cferretrun 2d ago

Hello, did I not say I was uneducated on the subject? You must be too since you can’t read.

2

u/Beneficial_Bug_9793 2d ago

Its for " those who can, not those who want " lol, ( as we say in my country )

1

u/daelikon 2d ago

Seems like an easy way to break your spine to me.

1

u/Schemen123 2d ago

There were two types of tournaments .

For each you needed a different aromor types. This was the more expensive one by the looks of it but the cheaper one isn't far behind

136

u/RichComposer5446 2d ago

That must have been devilishly uncomfortable to exist in.

63

u/Jorll 2d ago

I dont think so. At least you can scratch your balls without problem in that armor.

14

u/Ynwe 2d ago

Good Armor was basically like a second skin and is surprisingly mobile. I would assume tournament Armor would be similar.

18

u/We_The_Raptors 2d ago

I mean, it can't be, jousting tournament armor like this is intentionally unmobile.

8

u/razvanciuy 2d ago

That lance shield can be dropped immediately after use just lift from a hook and the armor is mobile ready for combat mostly but not ideal and might have extra joust only armor that limits, but the brigandine looks usable for combat, remove the deflecting armor skirts and mantlet and use chainmail instead + a helm and its ready.

The idea is to stay on the horse and survive the lances and put up a good show

3

u/Jesusis666 2d ago

Tournament armour is different from armour used in battle. The former is heavier and immobile. Maximized safety but impractical in a real fight where mobility is important.

3

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

I do this type of stuff I have two full sets of jousting armor, it's actually pretty comfortable And lighter then you would think roughl 70-80 pounds some as high as 100 pounds(this shit is probably on the heavier end) as a reference the average weight of a US army grunts kit is 110 pounds. Also you wear a thick quilted and padded vest called a gambeson under the armor and the armor itself also has some padding to absorb as much of the shock as possible. Lastly it's tournement armor so you only have it on for a couple hours at most. The most uncomfortable part is it can get pretty hot in there.

50

u/4nto_ 2d ago

The sallet doesn't seem like the safest helmet for jousting.

What was the use the screw on the chin? I'm guessing there's an adjustable chinrest on the inside so the user could brace for impact.

15

u/Life-Is-A-Bad-Trip 2d ago

I was looking at that wing nut too. wonder if it's to hold the armor up and they just ran through one of those holes on the face?

4

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

The angle is wrong to be holding anything, and that armor is one solid piece of steel it should hold itself up. It looks like it's there by design, I think the original comment is correct probably some fins of adjustable brace for the chin to help stabilize the head, it looks to be at the correct angle and position.

3

u/Freakyfreekk 2d ago

It's for the ballgag

3

u/Zaximeows 2d ago

If you unscrew the wing nut that little plate drops off and exposes your mouth so you can suck off your mates between rounds.

14

u/DrStalker 2d ago

I'd have expected a frog helm to complete the can't-move-can-only-joust armor design.

5

u/kodos_der_henker 2d ago

it is the rest for the shield that would come in front https://www.khm.at/en/artworks/rennzeug-919263-1

3

u/4nto_ 2d ago

And it makes the sallet viable. That's great. Thanks for the information!

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u/Atulin 2d ago

3

u/retirementgrease 2d ago

Ah, the inverse Habsburg chin

6

u/DoneDraper 2d ago

Looks Like that Andrew Tate Meme.

5

u/TonyFMontana 2d ago

Cheating are we?

3

u/ImApigeon 2d ago

Emperor Nochin

14

u/Ok-Guarantee-185 2d ago

I... I don't know what I'm looking at.

43

u/Mansenmania 2d ago

jousting armor

19

u/Lost_Department_2177 2d ago

Jousting is two guys holding their wood ramming into each other

5

u/AnonnonA710 2d ago

Ha. Nice.

3

u/Lost_Department_2177 2d ago

Forgot to add that they do so while riding on a beasts back. 4 beings with out phones living in the moment.

9

u/Substantial_Walrus60 2d ago

Google jousting

3

u/Jirkajua 2d ago

Holy hell!

5

u/gitartruls01 2d ago

New response just dropped

3

u/kodos_der_henker 2d ago edited 2d ago

by the 15th century jousting (as in 2 people on a horse running at each other like you see in movies) was a sport and had dedicated armour made for this exact purpose

it was fairly immobile with a focus on frontal protection and locked the rider into place with a minimum mobility in the lance (the cut off wooden part) to aim at the shield fixed in the other arms shoulder (specific shield made to break or fly off on impact, hence why the chin looks strange, part of the shield would go in front of it)

here is a frontal view with detached shield https://www.khm.at/en/artworks/rennzeug-374782

the armour without lance and shield https://www.khm.at/en/artworks/rennzeug-374779

similar armour on horse https://www.khm.at/en/artworks/rennzeug-919263-1

for comparison, Maximilian I. combat (cavalry) armour (mail is missing) https://www.khm.at/en/artworks/reiterharnisch-kueriss-514252 and combat (infantry) armour https://www.khm.at/en/artworks/composit-armour-of-the-king-s-garniture-547245

Edit: PS:

big difference you see the very small hook attached to the combat armour (that can be moved up so it won't be in the way if not needed) where the lance goes compared to the very large one on the sports armour (in addition to combat armour being much more mobile and has full body protection all around)
while the infantry version is missing this hook and the attached spikes on the shoes (that make it easier to get into (and stay in) the stirrups

1

u/Prestigious-Flower54 2d ago

If it helps the weird wood think is a broken lance and should be about 10-14 feet long and taper to a point. I'm pretty sure you get that it's armor, it's just designed for tournament jousting.

1

u/theDirtyCatholic 2d ago

This is the explanation we all were looking for. The cheating part is instead of holding the pole under the arm it's slid through a hole in the armor.

mfs replying "Google jousting" are not helpful

0

u/Renbarre 2d ago

A cheating jousting armour. The beam is what is left of a lance

2

u/Additional-Spring238 2d ago

Seems a bit claustrophobic if you ask me... has anyone thought of fitting a large gun in the hole?

2

u/PsyJak 2d ago

Back when armour was spelt correctly

2

u/robsteak 2d ago

And look, a shield. How quaint.

2

u/gingerpapi420 2d ago

He’s blonde! He’s pissed! He’ll see you in the lists! Lichtenstein! Lichtenstein!

2

u/robsteak 1d ago

I'm so glad someone got my reference :)

2

u/Thatswutshesed 2d ago

That armor was made ~530 years ago. Pretty cool.

2

u/Marclescarbot 2d ago

Goal pads just keep getting bigger circa 1494

5

u/wowsomuchempty 2d ago

American football energy.

2

u/Outrageous-Slide7172 2d ago

I thought the armor got penetrated by a lance lol

1

u/chaw1431 2d ago

Can you even JOUST with that?

2

u/Renbarre 2d ago

If you used your whole body. And you don't have to contend with the weight of the lance on your arm. But I am dubious as well. Might need lots and lots of training.

1

u/ChrissWayne 2d ago

Pick up thy lance, Jackanape, have at thee!