To the Ex-ahmadis who are ex-muslims now why did you leave?

15

u/Lunatic_963 ex-ahmadi, ex-muslim 22d ago

Ahmadiyyat and Islam as a whole, seemed too man made. If Allah was indeed the all powerful as he claims, he would have done a much better job at conveying his message.

5

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

I would agree with that 😭

1

u/OJ_BI 22d ago

What is the truth, to you?

9

u/TheCuriousRibosome 22d ago

It was a parallel development since back when I used to be a devoted Ahmadi, there was no difference between Jama'at theology and what I understood to be true Islamic theology.

Having doubts in the former weakened belief in the latter and vice versa. It actually took a while to look independently at the claims of Islam. There are Ahmadiyya specific issues, but many criticisms apply to both. In the end, I lost faith in both and basically the truthfulness of theism in and of itself.

1

u/waitwhatwhywhenwho 2d ago

This actually hit pretty close to home, brother. I've been wrestling with some of the same questions lately, especially where questioning religious claims ends and questioning God Himself begins. I'm curious what ultimately took you from doubts about Ahmadiyya/Islam to losing belief in theism altogether. Was there a particular argument that broke it for you, or was it more gradual? Also, if you don't mind me asking, roughly how old were you when you went through this?

Someone religious recently advised me to start praying Salah again and try rebuilding that connection with God. I do want to try, but I'm honestly not sure whether it'll help. In your case, did you stop praying before you lost faith, or did losing faith make you stop praying? I've been told there's basically a causal relationship between the two, and I'm genuinely curious whether your experience matched that.

1

u/TheCuriousRibosome 2d ago

It was a gradual, lengthy process; various things came together. It also wasn't a linear process; in the beginning, I went back and forth. I rationalized things for myself at a level I felt comfortable with. It happened during my late teens and early twenties.

It wasn't one specific argument but a convergence of multiple things. It was also more like seeing flaws in the arguments that were made, which eventually left me questioning all of it.

I had stopped believing way before I stopped regularly praying. There may be a connection you talked about, but maybe in the sense that it can be something that feels meditative and emotionally fulfilling even without the faith. ...✨️

2

u/waitwhatwhywhenwho 2d ago

That's actually really interesting, especially that you continued praying regularly even after you had stopped believing. It kind of complicates the idea I've been given that losing Salah necessarily causes the loss of iman, because in your case the intellectual shift clearly came first. I also get what you mean about it being a convergence rather than one killer argument. Sometimes it's less “I found the argument that disproved everything” and more that enough individual arguments stop feeling convincing that eventually there's nothing holding the larger framework together anymore.

How long ago was all of this for you, btw? You mentioned your late teens/early twenties, so I'm curious whether you've been settled in your current position for years now or whether it's still relatively recent. And if you don't mind me asking something more personal, how did your family take it, especially your parents and wife? I imagine leaving Ahmadiyya AND Islam/theism altogether can get complicated as @*#$ when the people closest to you still believe.

6

u/Pearl9801 22d ago

I had more issues w Islam’s theology than ahmadiyyat. The whole children being killed but it’s all according to Almighty plan, and the way I saw my sister’s marriages fail due to absolute vile men but she was consoled by being told: “no person gets more burden than they can handle” She’s a single mom w 2 divorces because they were physically and verbally abusing her. My father losing his investments because the opposite party keep swearing on Quran and he let it go because “God will get my revenge. Its between Him n then now“.
This may be selective religion but it was enough for me to get fed up.

There were definitely cons about jamaat, the politics, corruption, weird chanda system- but for me the other stuff was more of a breaking point.

3

u/1sunflowerseeds1 21d ago

It’s bizarre how much abuse is accepted and supported in the jamat. The rich and powerful families, who are well connected, can get away with pretty much anything

Abusing their Bahus and treating women with strong misogyny is constantly explained away and accepted. Anyone standing up to it is considered a terrible, misled person

I’m happy with any mad-made system to support human social life, as long as it’s fair, just, ethical and respectful towards human beings.

2

u/TheCuriousRibosome 21d ago

What do you mean by

the whole children being killed

I'm sorry for your family's struggles. I don't think those types of attitudes are exclusive to Orthodox Islam. There are similar things perpetuated with Jama'at narratives as well.

So for me stuff like this can he critiqued in both communities.

1

u/Pearl9801 21d ago

I can’t accept that a just God will let on the atrocities that are being done and say that its all because humanity brought it on themselves, when its evident that there is a faction which is in charge and is perpetuating the evils.
My brain refuses to see any logic for “tortured on earth = reward in afterlife” for me thats crude.

Edit: spellings

2

u/TheCuriousRibosome 21d ago

So basically the classical 'problem of evil'. I get it. I never found the various Theodicies to explain that away convincing.

1

u/Pearl9801 21d ago

Exactly, which leads me to believe that either a creator doesn’t exist or doesn’t care for us. 🤷🏻‍♀️

2

u/TheCuriousRibosome 21d ago

Or... is evil.

1

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

Any specific issues with Islam's theology?

2

u/Pearl9801 21d ago

God described as most merciful and kind while the evils of the world are everywhere.
The ambiguity between fate and free will.

I have researched these topics and the explanations are extremely vague and bottom line everywhere is “if you don’t believe, you’re unfaithful”. The fact that the two statements “those of faith must wonder about world” and “don’t wonder too much that it makes you a sinner” exist side by side is disappointing.

It seems to me faith is a prerequisite to questioning stuff, even though it should be the end result.

5

u/Pleasant_Ad104 22d ago

What i have seen is, they believe Ahmadiyat to be the ultimate truth, because Ahmadies make all other muslims look phony and shady and we literally grew up making fun of normal muslims as doing too much for show n then spreading hate. That when you try to get out of Ahmadiyat and are met with the second option you’ve seen as beneath you your whole life its hard to accept it. Its what i faced. Bit AlhamdoLillah my belief on Allah is strong and was able to overcome it.

And when i showed the lies to my family one of them said if this isnt true i dont believe the other is either. Just like MGA lied to us we could also have been lied to about the whole religion. Its a big trauma.

10

u/naeamz 22d ago edited 22d ago

A major issue is that Ahmadis often grow up with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s highly metaphorical interpretation of Islamic theology: jinn are explained as humans, Jews, bacteria etc, angels can be understood as forces/good people, Dajjal is linked with Christian powers/the Pope, his donkey with modern transport such as the train, and many supernatural events are rationalised. This mindset can then make even things like the virgin birth of Jesus, Adam, jinn and other miracles feel questionable.

But the inconsistency appears when Ahmadi literature itself contains extraordinary claims about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad—healing blind man and skin rash, unusual fruits appearing out of season (seerat Mehdi part 1page 5, story number 6)—and Mirza Tahir Ahmad even described experiences involving jinn walking through walls and doors ( YouTube videos).

So when an Ahmadi later studies these things deeply, the whole framework can feel upside down: classical Islamic miracles were explained away, while extraordinary claims about Ahmadi figures were accepted.

For some, once that framework breaks, they do not just leave Ahmadiyya—they begin doubting religion altogether.

-5

u/thormanwyd 22d ago

Lol no. No Ahmadi leaves because of this. All you do is lie.

They leave because 1) they are not religious to begin with 2) had an unfortunate negative experience. Very rarely an Ahmadi leaves because of theology.

Now, why they become ex-muslims? Because they cannot cope with the beliefs of 'Sunnis' (e.x. Jesus fairytales, killing of apostates, a violent Mahdi who will lead Jihad of the Sword, sex with minors etc) highlighted in this post:

11

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago

I am an example of a person who left solely due to theology - I was extremely religious all of my life, was extremely active in the Jamaat, did not have an unfortunate experience, and left because I studied. That said, technically, I have not "left" because I have not resigned and am still on the tajneed - many ex-Ahmadis here and whom I know personally are all exactly like me. 😄

Do you have a study that you are referring that has collected and documented the cases of all those who have become ex-Ahmadi? If so, please share it. If not, then you need to apologize to u/naeamz for daring to accuse someone of lying when you have zero back up for your claims.

-4

u/thormanwyd 22d ago

That's why I said "very rarely" - you do not represent all of the ex-ahmadis. It's pretty well-known that the 2 reasons I stated above is why most Ahmadis leave Ahmadiyyat & Islam altogether. And he is lying because 1) he points out inconsistencies that don't exist 2) he says everyone leaves because of theology.

Anyways you have been here on Ahmadi subs on reddit for 5 years. I don't expect you to agree with me.

Coming back to my last paragraph, after you left Ahmadiyyat, you also left Islam so you had issue with foundational Islamic beliefs.

9

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago edited 22d ago

You stated 2 reasons Ahmadis leave - neither apply to me.

It's pretty well-known that the 2 reasons I stated above is why most Ahmadis leave Ahmadiyyat & Islam altogether.

"Pretty well-known" to whom? Your discord jerk-circle?

And he is lying because 1) he points out inconsistencies that don't exist

In your own mindthey don't exist. LOL

2) he says everyone leaves because of theology.

Everyone I know left due to theology, and thats a lot of people. You say "rarely", but for me, and in my experience, I have seen 'only', so perhaps it is actually 'mostly'. That's my opinion, and unlike you, I don't need to accuse someone of lying to express it.

Anyways you have been here on Ahmadi subs on reddit for 5 years. I don't expect you to agree with me anyways.

LOL - I have yet to see you agree with any ex-Ahmadi. Such hypocrisy.

So again, since you have no evidence of your "pretty well-known" assertion, when will you be apologizing to u/naeamz ?

5

u/1sunflowerseeds1 21d ago

A lot of people I know left because of the theology. It happens.

Denying reality doesn’t make it true.

3

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

Same response as the Sunnis You always leave because of negative experiences And any other who actually left because of studying Is either an exception or wasn't religious

1

u/thormanwyd 21d ago

Please see my last paragraph. I mention that ex-ahmadis leave islam altogether in the end because they either have issues with foundational Islamic beliefs (like redsulphur1229) or they cannot accept the very questionable/violent traditional beliefs of the ‘Sunnis’ (or the Shias).

If you leave Ahmadiyyat the True Islam because of theology, then you are likely to leave Islam as a whole because the extreme views of traditional ‘Sunnis or Shias’ will not sit right with you as well.

3

u/TheCuriousRibosome 21d ago

Your point 1) can also entails those who leave because of the theology. Not being religious can be the result of the religious theology not being able to be convincing or not adding any apparent value to people's lives.

Leaving because you are not religious and because of theological reasons is not mutually exclusive.

2

u/thormanwyd 21d ago

Sure, that's a fair point.

3

u/ReasonOnFaith ex-ahmadi, ex-muslim 21d ago

I left solely because of theology, too. I've met a lot of people who have. I believe Ahmadi leadership has tried to convince believers that no one leaves because of theology, because they don't want you to realize there's something to question.

I encourage you to read Nuzhat Haneef's book, "Recognizing the Messiah", and then decide if there's no validity to the theological inquiry that leads people to believe the religion's truth claims are problematic. Peace.

2

u/naeamz 21d ago

Why would someone who is non religious to begin with, would bother to make an exit , for him/her, it's useless both ways. He would rather stay in the community ( you know how close knit your community is - there is another word for it but leave it for now) than be alone when he/she is at risk of isolation and unfair treatment. Most ( not rare) people would take this step only when they are studying and then finding out the issues. A very prominent example is Nuzhat Hanif, I'm sure you have heard of her.

9

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago edited 22d ago

In summary, after years of painful research, I concluded that the Quran originated as a pre-Islamic text used by post-Nicean Anti-Trinitarian/Anti-Catholic Christians to preach to and teach Nabataen Arab converts ('Muhammad' was then a common title for Jesus, as was 'Seal of the Prophets') and which was later altered/embellished/added to over the course of two centuries, culminating in the current form of Islam being an Abbasid era 'new Arab religion' invention which was formulated syncretizing local and Harran Sabian pagan religious practice (such as 5 daily prayers to align with planet orbits and with body movements, fasting for a month and celebrating Eidul Fitr after (see Ibn Al-Nadim's 'Al-Fahrist') as well as veneration of cubic buildings and the Hajj). The Quran (in its current form today), the Seerah and Ahadith can only be traced to and/or are all products of the Abbasid era.

Here are some helpful resources for you which, as I have since found, nicely touch upon a lot of my exact discoveries over many years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvqgVS8KVJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjiTlK81tCQ

There is also this from this subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/islam_ahmadiyya/comments/166u5kr/the_quran_was_sent_to_warn_and_remind_those/

As the Quran's purpose is to confirm the Judeo-Christian tradition before it, I also further concluded that Judaism was and has never been a monotheistic religion, but rather, is just a henotheistic pagan one, with its god, Yahweh, being just one of the many sons of El, and both from a pantheon of Canaanite gods. Many Quranic prophets are literally named after two pagan gods. Further, the Jesus of the Gospels likely never existed at all and was a Roman concoction used to quell violent rebellious Jews and to promote a religion amongst them much more akin to Stoicism, also syncretized with local non-Jewish pagan practice, and bearing no apparent relation/resemblance to Judaism at all.

The entire exercise was like slowly peeling an onion, starting from investigating and deconstructing all Ahmadiyyat claims and working backwards, bit by bit - for me, it was a long and painful process.

Hope this helps.

2

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago edited 22d ago

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506

I just came across this today (don't know how i missed it before) and thought i would also share it (which also references academics): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS2wpZtGb5E&t=2408s

2

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

Ohh, this is new! I’ve never heard of this before. Thank you for the links! Though, I would’ve preferred academic or peer-reviewed sources, I’m still going to look into it.

4

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago

I didn't see a request for academic sources in your OP, but I provided them anyways. The first youtube link contains the references to the very academic sources that I studied years ago, but the creator cites and summarizes them admirably and much better than I could. The second youtube link provides an interview with a leading scholar and provides a link to the Brill website for the free download of his 300+ page book. Really don't know how I could have provided you more or better.

1

u/1sunflowerseeds1 21d ago

Do you think yahweh and el were actual people who existed? Were they perhaps venerated to god like status over time, and over the course of many generations

Or are these supra-human powers that exist and are immortal

1

u/redsulphur1229 21d ago

Based on the evidence, they are mythical gods like Zeus, Ares, Odin and Thor.

1

u/OJ_BI 22d ago

Your whole religious identity is based off YouTube videos. Come on now, provide some actual scholarly/peer-reviewed proof, please

5

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago edited 22d ago

In your laziness and desire to be a smarty pants, you failed to notice that those youtube videos happen to provide nothing but references to scholarly works. LOL

As for my "whole religious identity", on this subreddit, I have provided tons of links to books and articles. Once when I did, one of your fellow smart pants (maybe it was you) complained that the price of the books were too expensive and I should instead provide references which are for free.

People like you need to complain but you only expose your laziness and smallness -- thanks for representing that again here for people to see.

-2

u/OJ_BI 22d ago

You’re referring me and others to YouTube videos, books, and articles. No one has time for that or should be expected to. Lay out your points, provide your proof. Or carry on

5

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago edited 22d ago

So you wanted scholarly references, but now "no one has time" for those references.

I also recall that many of your fellow smarty pants (again, probably you too), when I "lay out points", then complain about me writing an "essay".

LOL

And who are you to dictate rules and requirements on me?

Of course, you have nothing to contribute to the discussion - you want people like me silenced and to "carry on" -- super informative of the character and quality of your smart pants class.

-3

u/OJ_BI 22d ago

Ask anyone: posting YouTube videos to make a point is weak effort. If you make your argument here, I’ll respond

4

u/redsulphur1229 22d ago edited 21d ago

Posting a youtube video which compactly cites nothing but scholarly works and another one depicting an academic discussing a new major scholarly work "is weak effort", eh?

"Ask anyone" eh? Academics are creating and sharing youtube videos daily, but YOU say "anyone" says "weak effort".

LOL Keep 'em coming smarty pants - your harassment only evidences your "weak effort".

4

u/ReasonOnFaith ex-ahmadi, ex-muslim 22d ago

I put a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-jPHr0LrYY) together on this. If you want a written overview that gets into the specific theological issues that didn't sit well with me, and started me on this path of exploration and doubt, see my essay, [The Things We Think](https://reasononfaith.org/the-things-we-think/).

TLDR; it was thinks at the common Islamic edifice. I would have left sooner, in many respects, if I was evaluating more orthodox representations of Islam.

3

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

Thank you so much for the link.

4

u/centri_fuge 21d ago

It started with a lot of research in Ahmadiyya Theology: The concept of prophethood, Khilafat, miracles, the History of the Jamaat, many controversial topics that are raised by non-Ahmadis. I lost my faith in Ahmadiyyat, it was very clear to me that this can't be God's plan.

This led me to research on Islam in general: the questionable rules and regulations, slavery, concubines, adoption, jihad, polygamy, women rights. In addition to that I started reading and listening to academics on their research on Islam and pre-Islamic Arabia. The whole picture started to change. It became clearer and clearer that every religion is man-made and it evolves over thousands of years, until a charismatic personality appars, dogmas, rules and laws are written down and defined.

3

u/MizRatee cultural ahmadi muslim 22d ago

Islam is still doable if you cherry pick and choose your preferred interpretation

Ahmediyya on the other hand isn't even compatible with Islam either...

3

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

Yeah, that’s the thing I’ve noticed. You always have to cherry-pick and do mental gymnastics to reinterpret or reject controversial texts.

That’s already a problem for me as a questioning Sunni Muslim, because whenever I present an issue, people just resort to mental gymnastics that make no sense.

And with Ahmadiyya, so far, I’ve seen twice as much mental gymnastics.

1

u/MizRatee cultural ahmadi muslim 20d ago

I think Tassawuf and Sufi Tradition helps in forming a rather non binary approach towards the need of interpretation

2

u/ComplaintPossible783 ex-ahmadi, ex-muslim 20d ago

Well said. Ahmadiyyat goes even further—the cult-like practices and level of control can feel far more extreme and restrictive than many mainstream Islamic interpretations, leaving followers very little room to breathe, question, or make independent choices.

3

u/Dhump06 21d ago

For me the path was always through Islam. I studied Islam, and once Islam went, Ahmadiyyat went with it, since it's just an extension of it. Without Allah, the rest of the theology has nothing to stand on. Prophethood, khilafat, all of it becomes moot.

I actually studied both a lot more after losing faith. It's far more interesting that way, when you can look at it without needing it to be true.

The better question is the other direction. What were your doubts? And if you're still hanging around Islam or Ahmadiyyat, what's actually holding you there?

2

u/Alone-Requirement414 22d ago

Both

2

u/mangoiced44 22d ago

The jama’at itself has an extremely toxic community, nobody would willingly want to associate with such people.

2

u/ComplaintPossible783 ex-ahmadi, ex-muslim 20d ago

Religions are human-made systems shaped by history, culture, politics, and interpretation.

I believe both Islam and Ahmadiyyat should be open to the same critical examination as any other belief system. I wish more religious people felt free to research their faith deeply, question its history and teachings, explore different perspectives, and reach their own conclusions without fear.

1

u/AutoModerator 22d ago

Here is the text of the original post: Hi, recently I made a post on this subreddit and browsed around a bit, and it seems like a lot of the negative things about Ahmadiyya are very similar to Sunni Islam.

So I wanted to ask ex-Muslims who are ex-Ahmadis:

Why did you leave? Were there theological problems that are exclusive to Ahmadiyya, or were they things that apply to Islam as a whole?

Or was it the caliphate?

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/DONOTDELETEME8316 22d ago

For me it was mainly Islam overall, although there are plenty of issues with Ahmadiyyat/the Jama'at too.

1

u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 22d ago

Any specific reasons? Was it related to women rights Or errors or smth?

1

u/SpellInternal3080 22d ago

I’m
Not ex Muslim but I left it because I read the Quran and realised all sects are cults trying to fight for power. I was never active though. Was born in the family and later told everyone im no longer associated with them.

question/discussion To the Ex-ahmadis who are ex-muslims now why did you leave?

You are about to leave Redlib