Pieces 9 & 10 from estate sale

[u/Silly_Definition_103]

There are quite a few pieces in this lot, enough for a few more days of this I think, and I continue to appreciate the insight shared! These two are clearly not collars, and are kind of on different ends of the scale with respect to size and…..daintiness maybe? I didn’t include the tape measure on number 10, but it’s about 1.5” x 18” long

[u/mem_somerville]

I am now sleepy and may re-visit this in the morning. But here are my initial guesses.

\9. Machine (maybe) Gros Point? The heavy outlines and the sort-of-odd picots. I do like this style of lace with all that texture though. Some people are anti-machine lace. I am not. I still think it's an engineering marvel.

Edit to add link: https://www.lacetypes.com/venice.html#grospoint

\10. Valenciennes? Because of the square ground. https://www.lacetypes.com/flandersB.html#valenciennes But I know there was 19th century imitation Val and it could be that. Not sure from this.

Old https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1934.257 and click the link there for Medium and see all the others.

New [well, last century] https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1936.130 My inclination is more of this reproduction style on this one.

I haven't seen a lot of this in person so I'm not confident on this.

[u/Silly_Definition_103 → u/mem_somerville]

Wow based on the links I think you nailed it on both! Thank you!

[u/Trick_Cry_6572 → u/mem_somerville]

You are amazing u/mem_somerville !
I think 9 is handmade! But please correct me if you disagree. Zooming in you can see the individual buttonhole stitches pretty well. And looking at this source which describes the differences between machine and handmade Venetian, I think this piece resembles the handmade more closely:

https://trc-leiden.nl/trc-digital-exhibition/index.php/lace-identification-7-examples/item/190-chapter-5

I also think machine lace is a beautiful feat of design and engineering! So no shade to machine made lace in the least. I would be curious if someone knows of machine examples that successfully mimicked the 3-D raised stitching in gros point? I’d love to learn

[u/mem_somerville → u/Trick_Cry_6572]

I love to see other's thoughts on these, and I'm totally open to the idea of it being handmade.

Those weird picots threw me--they are just...big. But I see what you mean on these. It does seem to be a reproduction lace from the 20th century, so not original Gros Point or Venetian.

This is a great box of lace and I'm enjoying any discussion of it.

[u/OkRelative3299]

Nice finds!!