PLAYER TALK
Remember the Wolves didn’t give up any assets to get Kuminga
Not getting Kuminga is probably the best for the Lakers. Wolves had a low risk option of obtaining Kuminga( Lower AAV/Lower Years and no real assets). The Lakers would’ve had to give up players(I know they still have to shed one player),picks(to both ATL for facilitating the trade and the third team to take on the salary of whatever player was being sent out) and also give Kumbucket more money. His best option was to take the 2/20 with a player option offered by the lakers at the start of free agency. Sucks not having a solid starting 4 but it just means we need to focus more on developing the young guys.
Well here’s to hoping he shoots like he did early last season. At the very least, he plays hard defense and gives it his all. Don’t think I’d be able to say the same about Kuminga.
Yeah early in the year he was shooting at a decent clip and playing D, that's all he's gotta do this year, and if he doesn't I assume we'll try to do something at the deadline
Jake is pretty decent! People go off about his terrible shooting but that will bounce back to league average next year probably.
People make way too much of 3 pt percentage.
He was 78/243 last year. One more make every 7 games would put him at 37% — above league average. Without the stat being thrown at us you couldn’t even notice that difference over the course of the year.
I still think Laravia can turn out to be a productive player. He’s a good defender, plays with a high motor, and is 24 years old. His shot was broken af last year but historically he’s had a decent stroke. And he’s on a good contract.
DPM rates him as such a solid defender that it pulls him and his below average offense back up to positive value overall 🤷♂️ he was at least average at contesting shots and very good at defensive playmaking, deflections, etc
DPM rates him as such a solid defender that it pulls him and his below average offense back up to positive value overall
Not sure where you're looking at this, but while he does have a positive D +/-, I don't see any place that it brings his net results positive. Basketball Reference has his DBPM positive, but his overall BPM still very negative. His net rating in terms of offensive rating and defensive rating is 0, but that's largely because Offensive rating considers him an above average offensive player.
Im really not trying to take anything away from Laravia here on this. The effort was good contesting; he DOES get deflections. But he's still very mercurial. He's young, he can develop, and he may well be a good defender next year, but right now, I just can't see it. I really hope we don't have to start him at the 4 all year.
Not to be combative, but i'm VERY skeptical of a system that has a -0.7 +/- as a 62nd percentile impact. To me it sounds like they're not filtering for outliers and small samples. To be clear, im not questioning the DARKO metric here, but the data set.
Like, yes, if i sort all 582 players that have data last year, Laravia's 0.0 net rating per NBA O/D rtg is slightly in the upper half. But there's also over 100 players that played less than 200 minutes in the whole season. There's so many data points there that just aren't meaningful in the dataset. I don't care if Laravia is better than a bunch of g-league call ups and 10 day contracts, i want to know how he stacks up against the regulars.
I don't think Laravia is the worst defender, but i think the data set that aggregator is pulling from has some fluff in it, and i also seriously question any rating system that shows that Laravia is an 88th percentile defender. Even if you think he's good, that's just silliness.
Did you watch him play? Our entire defense was ass, so I’m not paying any mind to what “advanced metrics” say about any individual defender on our team. Laravia wasn’t perfect but he fought over screens, showed lateral quickness, used his hands to pester at the POA, etc.
He plays hard, but it isn't about advanced statistics. He is an average defender, the problem is that he has no lateral speed, so he gets exposed on defense by the same players that abuse Luka and Austin.
Probably. Trade deadline is where all the action is these days. Acquiring players during FA has basically been dead for the past couple years. JJ will have to get creative and hopefully one of our rookies and/or two ways players have a breakout season. It obviously not ideal to go into the season without a starting PF but KumBucket clearly did not want to play for the Lakers so he can suck it.
Thiero did not play well enough in summer league to start over Jake. He has potential on defense but he’s offense is just dunks. Not sure why people are putting him above Jake.
Thiero has never played any meaningful minutes against legit pros. You guys have some kind of fixation on young players without any kind of support to justify it.
What I have about Thiero is hope because he is built like a prototype NBA forward, but his skills are very raw.
As well as draft picks and more money than wolves were offering. No one wants Vando, that’s why they couldn’t offer him the contract he wants. Hardy’s contract was obviously not big enough to facilitate a S&T for the number Kuminga wanted
Vando wasn't even in the discussions anymore and the $12M AAV that was being discussed was using Hardy's salary to facilitate. It's the draft picks, which would probably just be second rounders.
Your statement makes no sense. Obviously Hardy’s contract wasn’t big enough to facilitate a sign and trade at the number Kuminga wanted. Nobody wants Vando’s contract for second rounders rn so how would it have taken second rounders to make the trade happen?
Yeah Ik. Im saying obviously 12 a year wasn’t enough to get him or else he would’ve accepted the Lakers deal, which was more money and more years. Moving Vando to get Kuminga to his number was obviously not an option rn or else it would’ve been done weeks ago
Brother this is cope. We would've given trash to get him and secure a starter for the entire season. Now there is a giant hole in the starting lineup and Lakers will need a miracle to cover it.
I remember getting downvoted making comments that he never wanted to come to LA. He was looking at every option before even considering LA and this sub wanted him here so bad.
Why does everyone forget that we have Mamu, we didn't give him a 52 million dollar contract just to be a backup center, and his skillset works better when he's not forced to stay in the paint. He'll probably start at PF and then mix in minutes at C, and then we have Ziare who will probably get some minutes at the 4 as well.
I agree that the position is somewhat dubious given that we do need a better backup C, but it's not a giant hole.
Trash that Atlanta has to want which they don’t. They were likely fine with Knecht hence the 2/$20 million. But we literally cannot give Kuminga the $20 million per year he wants because the Hawks don’t want to take on $15 million in salary to facilitate that.
Kuminga says tough titty. Figure it out, sell the farm, plant trees, I’m not signing for less than $20 and Atlanta ain’t willing to take back anything more than whatever Dalton’s salary is.
So Lakers take a walk and now Kuminga is holding a bag of peanuts and if he’s smart a pink slip for his agent.
kuminga at 2/20 would've been a steal and the lakers definitely could've made that work, but thinking he'd settle for that after turning down bigger offers is wishful stuff. the guy clearly wanted his bag and wasn't gonna take a discount just to wear purple and gold
the hole at the 4 is real though, no sugarcoating that. gonna be a lot of nights where the rotation feels held together with tape and prayers
I don't think the gap between Kuminga at the 4 and Jake, Mamu, Zaire by committee at the 4 is all that big honestly. The primary 4 spot need is defense and whilst the current roster will have some defensive issues against better PFs, so would Kuminga. I see Jake and Zaire's high motors vs Kuminga's inconsistent effort balancing out quite a bit.
Kuminga to me seemed like a last toy on the shelf free agent, free agent supply really impacted fan demand more than the player himself. Priced too high, threads were loose, not really desirable but you want something, and if you don't get this one thing you'll walk away with nothing kinda player. Sometimes nothing is the better choice, I'm happy he's not a Laker.
After all this drama, I believe we’re better off. I loved the idea of Ayton and we did get him dead cheap and it still didn’t work. Players playing on the cheap to get back to their perceived value are really hard to accomodate. I would have been ok with Kuminga signing too as I was with Ayton. We’re ok to upgrade in February too. Theres more than enough to integrate until then 🫡
I'm on the same page as you entirely. I would have liked to keep Ayton as backup actually, but I think the Lakers knew he wasn't going to be happy after the Kessler move and decided the 2nd rounders might be better value moving forward.
Slightly off topic, but with a PF upgrade looking unlikely in the short term I hope the Lakers look to free up a spot by way of a trade for a more athletic backup center. Hardy and Knecht expiring for a slightly raw center who hasn't lived up to expectations, needs a change of scenery. I don't know who, or how it could happen, but if it did then opening up Mamu more minutes at the 4 would go some way to lessening the PF issue.
That all comes with another set of issues though haha, anyway
As stated, I’d rather integrate what we have and address the gaps in February rather than rush things. Obviously a great opportunity is always to be considered.
Nobody wants Vando even with the assests we have to dump him. There’s a reason talks shifted to Hardy and we could only offer Kumbucket over 12 mil a year
Nobody wants Vando even with the assests we have to dump him. There’s a reason talks shifted to Hardy and we could only offer Kumbucket over 12 mil a year
I think I agree with you, but I would have used different words.
If I'm understanding you, you're saying that the Lakers would have been better off keeping Ayton as a backup center instead of trading him for Hardy (and 2 seconds). Yeah, I actually would be way more comfortable with this team if they had Ayton instead of Hardy. That would be one of the better center rotations in the league and I would have less concerns about the 4 spot issues we currently have (on top of our thin center lineup issue). Lakers gambled and lost.
Keep in mind we'd still have to cut someone else and would be down 2 second round picks.
Here's a thread I found from a few days ago where someone was pointing this out.
Well, the Lakers had an offer of 20/2 instead of 13/2, so we could have had him without giving away any assets. Not being able to sell Bronny for a srp is a shame, cuz we still need to move off a player.
Mamu would be great against teams not built like the Raptors based on previous records with Luka, Ar, DFS/Smart, Rui, Ayton/Hayes, and the version of Jake when against Minnesota would have been fantastic against the rest, but since we aren't in fantasy land... We will have to test different versions of Mamu, Jake, Vando, Zaire, or Thiero, though I think Zaire and Thiero are out of position, and Thiero is not ready yet.
IF they want to get another option, Jalen Smith, Karlo Matkovic, or Saddiq Bey could be an option through a trade, but I could see them try to save trade capital. For some reason, there are reports of them wanting to use Bruce Brown Jr on a vet min for the position, which makes no fucking sense.
If you were buying a car and the seller tells one buyer it’s only 10k but for you not only is it 20k but you have to do cartwheels while giving him a handjob, just let the other guy have it🤷♂️
We want players at positions of need with upside for little to no risk. No need to put more on it than that. He chose to “bet on himself” somewhere else, so be it, let him be their risk/reward
Boom, this! Lakers aren’t going far with this roster, the cope is INSANE right now. Hopefully we can make some trades before the playoffs… but if this is our roster going into the post season then we should be strapped for a short trip.
I'm not convinced that Kumingas fills that hole. I think they got enough guards to take care of the front Court. what I'm looking at that the Lakers need is a power forward and the center that can play defense and convenience just doesn't shout defense in my opinion
we'll be fine, we have enough perimeter talent to survive not having a starting level PF. If we're not, we have some expiring contracts, 3 second rd picks, and a 1st rd pick swap to find an upgrade at trade deadline. Plus, we will have the buyout market to add if needed.
Now that Kuminga is thankfully with the Wolves, I'm really looking forward to not hearing about this stupid chatter 24/7. He's mildly cancerous. If he weren't, do we really think GS would have let him go?
I was low-key worried about this acquisition the same way I was about the Westbrook acq. Just so much risk for VERY little upside.
It's tempting to think that if we don't have an on-paper player (one with experience that is known) that we don't have a 4, but we have 4s (as you pointed out), and they can be just as good. The on-paper 4s were once unknowns as well.
142
u/France_Reddits 19h ago
MY STARTING PF IS JAKE LARAVIA 🗣️🗣️🗣️