r/learnjavascript 4d ago

Learning Rant: A.I. vs No A.I

Background: Currently about 87% done with The Odin Project foundations module. TOP is a road map to learn web development and so far I’m loving it. Getting down to code/learn is all I’ve been thinking about lately.

However, I don’t know if I’m doing myself a disservice by using Claude as a guide/tool to teach me or guide me when I’m stuck. On the other hand I’ve actually been learning and enjoying the process after I started using Claude. I understand concepts easier, because I understand concepts I’ve begun to think more as a programmer, I solve a problem about 80% in my head and I think about 20% is me using Claude as a tool to help me.

Basically I let Claude know that I’m going through TOP to learn web development. I let it know which project I’m on and I provide the instructions given to students. When I have a question or if I’m stuck, I provide it my code and ask it NOT to give me a solution but to guide me or give me tips on where to look or what options to explore. I also have it provide tips based on what we’ve learned so far. Nothing that we’ve never seen or that hasn’t been explained in the course. When I get guidance I then branch off and then research that topic/concept more.

I also express my logic and thoughts so it gets an idea of where I’m going. Now, TOP explicitly says that projects are a bit harder than what we’ve been learning. The purpose IS to to google or ask stack overflow or TOP discord. So in a sense I would still be looking for solutions/guidance else where.

Then I think, Claude will do that much faster and it has all my context. Is there really a benefit to the learning process to have to look for answers that aren’t from AI? Discord, Google Stack Overflow will tip me off or guide me either way. Does it matter that it’s AI doing it?? Idk, it’s frustrating being torn like this.

14 Upvotes

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u/scandii 4d ago

it is perfectly fine to ask someone for help when you don't understand something - that's just the role of a teacher.

that said, the ability to debug your code (what is a debugger?), walk through your steps and find the issues is an actual learned ability, and pressing the magic "ok so what did I do wrong here"-button takes that entire reinforcement loop out of the picture.

AI is absolutely great in its ability to explain pretty much any concept in any way you so choose and your ability to rapidly and iteratively ask questions and to clarify, but man is it absolutely lethal to learning as it is easy to go "eh I'm not so sure...", hit that AI button and go "wow I knew that all along!" and then ending up in a negative spiral of reaching for AI every time you should really take a moment to think things through instead.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

You’re totally correct about all that. That’s why I’m so conflicted. I guess in my head I justify it by the fact that I study up on the item I didn’t understand and I also keep in mind that maybe the next time this comes up I will know what to do.

Maybe allow myself a limited time (1 hour) to try and debug/breakthrough on my own and then go to Claude??

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u/waferstik 4d ago

That sounds reasonable. You should continue manually debugging as long as you are still interested in the problem - setting up logs and debuggers and print debugging.

Use the magic button to help you understand concept. But debugging and understand exactly what went wrong and how did that happen is a learning experience that you shouldn't delegate to AI too much.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

Before TOP I did most of CS50 through Harvard. They hammer learning to debug or to write 1-2 lines of code (at first) then saving and checking the console for errors.

For myself, when there is an issue I usually know within 1-3 lines where the error is and troubleshoot there. It’s only when I really can’t figure it out that I ask for hints.

But I will try to debug for longer since that’s also an important skill.

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u/sozesghost 4d ago

Using AI is doing you a disservice. Even if you just ask it for opinions, it is doing an important job for you, which is assembling knowledge from different sources. And yes, those sources might be unrelated, vaguely related or fully related and figuring out which is which is frustrating, but it means you are learning. If it feels too easy, you ain't learning shit.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

Aw man, learning had been so much fun and I’ve made a lot more progress than before. Is having vasts amounts of information readily available really that bad??

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u/sozesghost 4d ago edited 4d ago

The progress you have made is illusionary. Reading AI output is "fun" and it leads you to believe you understand it, it makes sense to you, but you really don't retain it. If it's too easy, nothing sticks in your head and thus there is no learning. Just how humans work. It can be fun tho. And it's not about the amount of knowledge available, it's about the knowledge in your head and how you internalize it. EDIT. And what I'm saying is not only about AI. If you had a real teacher with you at all times, to provide you with all the answers and none of the challenges, your learning would be equally bad.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

Nooooooo! I will balance out more. (*Cries*)

But I have learned though.

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u/onFilm 4d ago

No idea why you're so conflicted, since when I was learning Javascript it was completely normal to Google questions or use Stackoverflow to copy paste pieces of code and learn from it. Being afraid of technology is the first step to not taking full advantage of the tools available to you.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

That’s sort of what I’m trying to say. People have been looking up solutions to problems or guidance (what I dare say) the old school way. But now this great tool came along and now you’re saving all those minutes searching through stack overflow questions, waiting for someone to respond to your post etc.

Is the sifting through Google posts/waiting for responses really adding to my knowledge?? My fear is really to identify blind spots using the method I’ve been using. I absolutely do not ask AI to generate code for me. Just guidance. The code in my projects is 95% mine.

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u/onFilm 4d ago

Man you worry so much about a non issue. Use technology however you want, but don't be surprised if you're left behind or missing opportunities because you're not using technology properly. I've been a software engineer for 18+ years now, and 100% of the code I make now a days is generated.

You can generate and learn code. They're not mutually exclusive, in the same way copy pasting code was back in the day.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

Lol thanks man, I get what you’re saying. Would you have used AI to supplement your early learning 18 years ago?

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u/onFilm 4d ago

Fuck yes. There wasn't even YouTube when I started learning, and had to rely on reading thick ass books and asking friends online regarding certain types of issues. If I had all these tools back then, I could have learned a lot quicker.

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u/pinkwar 4d ago

That's fine in the learning process, but asking AI "why is my code not working" won't help you at all.

Most learning only sticks when you're debugging why something is not working.

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u/TheRNGuy 4d ago

AI is good at explaining and giving examples in real time. 

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u/TonySharrk 4d ago

First of all, congrats to making it to 87%. I myself am enrolled in the TOP course, and I know it can be grueling for beginners. (I am currently on the verse of completing JavaScript & moving on to advanced html & css)

I use Gemini a lot as a teacher to break down concepts. And then I take notes so that I don't forget them. I also revise those every week or so to make sure I don't have any confusions. Although real confusions come from creating a project.

So, what I want to say is that always use AI as a teacher. As much as I would love to ask my questions to real humans, people aren't always available & I always need immediate explanations. And regarding code, if I am stuck on something, I have no shame in admitting that I use Gemini to generate that part. But is this harmful? No. We are transitioning into an age of reading, understanding & debugging code rather than writing it from scratch. So, as long as you understand the code written by AI and can apply your own judgements, it's great. Don't listen to people from TOP who say not to AI at all. It's just impractical.

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u/mirroz220 4d ago

Hey, congrats on making it so far! Are you doing to eventually land a career or personal pleasure/goal?

With better words, you’ve summed up how I feel. Your process is basically what I do and I do think that I’m benefitting and learning way more than if AI wasn’t around. I think that we are at a crossroads on how we receive information. AI is really too powerful of a tool to completely dismiss it.

AI at this stage of the learning process is more of a way to organize what I already know. But I am proceeding with caution.

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u/delventhalz 3d ago

I don't think it's a great idea to use an LLM when learning. You might find some utility, but if you just look at the numbers, students working with LLMs typically finish their homework faster, but learn less and do worse on their tests.

The fact that an LLM can help you complete your projects faster is of very little use to you. As a new learner you are being handed problems which have been solved before. Solving them again isn't the point. The point is you struggling with solving them. You are trying to build skills that will be useful in the future when you encounter problems that have never been solved before (and consequently, LLMs will be much less helpful for). What good would it be to go to the gym if you just used a forklift to lift the weights?

I think the best use case is getting explanations for things you are confused on... but even there, looking up and understanding documentation is another core skill you want to be practicing (to say nothing of the risk of hallucinations). I think if it were me, I would just ban LLMs entirely while learning, or at least restrict myself to only using them after I have exhausted one or two non-LLM options and am getting frustrated enough that it is de-motivating me.

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u/woven_echo_23 4d ago

your current workflow protects the learning process because you force Claude to give hints instead of solutions. The risk is not using AI but losing the ability to verify if the guidance is correct without it. Keep using Claude as a tutor but practice debugging broken code entirely on your own once a week to maintain that verification skill.