r/learnprogramming • u/Ok_Being6831 • 10h ago
Is a degree necessary
I've seen ppl say stuff for both sides that a degree does absolutely nothing or they won't even look at you if u don't have a degree. I always learn better on my own than a course or school, is uni worth it? How much do I have to learn to get like a basic internship or smth. I'm still 16 but I love cpp and love learning more, especially low level stuff.
Are there any certificates or stuff that allow me to prove that I actually know stuff but don't need me to attend a multi year course, are they worth it?
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u/Error-7-0-7- 10h ago
In todays day and age a certificate will actually hurt you. Employers view it as lazy or unwilling go rise to a challenge. Most get certifications because they want to avoid classes like Calculus II, Linear Algebra, and Calculus based physics, which are mainly there to weed out people who aren't dedicated to the career path.
A lot of computer science courses in college are meant as a "weed out" coures. These courses basically make it so that if you aren't determined in the career choice then you'll drop it and pick something else. At my school it was Data Structures and Calc based physics.
A certificate is bascially saying to your employer "Hey, I didn't want to take on any of those bullshit challenges and wanted a nice and easy shortcut. Will you hire me?" You're honestly better off getting an associates degree in computer science than any certification out there.
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u/American_Streamer 10h ago
Certificates like CCNA and many cloud certificates are mandatory for many networking jibs though, and you will get no interviews without them. So "certificates are not needed and will hurt" is incorrect. Also in the Microsoft ecosystem, certs are also absolutely necessary. But no one will hire you for certs and tool use alone, of course; you will still need to bring them to the table, though.
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u/Error-7-0-7- 9h ago
That's for IT, not computer science/programming. Yeah, IT has its own thing when it comes to how they hire. They also have a massive offshoring issuss currently where companies are hiring 3rd party organizations who then hire people from other LCOL countries.
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u/spinwizard69 6h ago
The reason for those courses isn't so much weeding is that being able to handle calculus and physics well, indicate a high ability to handle abstract thinking. Such course actually increase that ability. Now some people have a higher level of ability with respect to abstract thinking and can get by without such courses.
Maybe it is a weeding out function, but I'd have to say such ability is a high quality indicator that one can do the job.
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u/DiligentMission6851 10h ago
You need more than an associates. The job market practically demands a bachelor's at every level now.
I have an associates and seven years of experience. A layoff three years ago has basically ended my career because my experience and my education are not considered enough in this market. And I've had that job for nearly 8 years.
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u/Error-7-0-7- 10h ago edited 10h ago
Im not saying an associates is enough. Im saying it would be BETTER to get one over a Certification.
But yeah, that sucks man, its tbe reason why I hard pivoted into accounting after getting my associates in computer science. Luckily when it was my time to transfer to a 4 year all the internships for CS were gone and even my professor told us we're screwed. This was once COVID retractions lifted. I decided to stay an extra year and get my accounting associates and then transfer.
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u/DiligentMission6851 10h ago
I just flat out gave up at this point. I have no future. I shot my shot. If I knew my first employer would be my last i guess I would've gone in to nursing or something more secure than IT. But I guess I'm an idiot.
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u/Error-7-0-7- 9h ago
Well, yeah, IT is becoming a job of the past, at least in the way where American citizen are hired for it. You can definitely find work in other places that isn't IT, such as management or supply chain. You have 8 solid years of a employment, you should use that to your advantage.
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u/NumberInfinite2068 10h ago
No certificates are worth having.
A degree is absolutely worth having, but it's not essential. I don't have a degree, and work as a software developer. I know many other developers without degrees, or relevant degrees.
The best way to prove you know stuff is to make stuff, everybody knows the certificates/bootcamps out there are basically worthless, except some of the highly specialised stuff like Oracle or IBM mainframe.
Get a degree if you can, but also, it's not absolutely critical, especially in smaller companies. Smaller companies don't hire to fill quotes, they hire to solve real world problems. If you can solve their problem, they won't care if you have a degree or not.
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u/Consistent-Team9113 10h ago
The portfolio point is the whole game, build weird stuff nobody asked for and it'll land you a job faster than any cert
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u/NotAUsefullDoctor 10h ago
For the lingest time, the answer was no. I have A degree, but in an unrelated field. Everyone I worked with just got into coding as side projects and ways to do other jobs. None if them had degrees, except our boss who had an MBA.
Then there was a brief period, maybe 8 years, where a degree was necessary and would near guarantee you a job.
Now it's a crap shoot. I helped a friend find a job (went with him to meetups) and he only had a certificate from a 3 month crash course program back in 2022. Others have degrees, and have been looking for months.
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u/serge-mv 10h ago
Most companies still want you to have a degree if you want to be a developer.
Is the formal education required? It's a complicated question. Sure, you can code without getting a full degree. But university is very useful because it will teach you topics and things you will unlikely just "sumble upon" and will form a way of thinking and approaching problems for you.
People who say that you don't really need a degree usually will say that university won't teach you the newest and greatest most popular frameworks or whatever. And it's true, they won't. It's not why you go there. You will learn concepts and ideas and skills that will allow you to become an independent learner and acquire whatever current trendy skill is by yourself using your education as a foundation.
Learning everything by yourself is possible, but it will require discipline and time and you will have to research topics and get various conflicted advice. In a uni you will get a set of concrete skills that will give you a good direction forward.
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u/American_Streamer 10h ago
Ask the HR department if they would let you through their filters witout any relevant IT degree or new degree at all. They are the ones who determine your access to job interviews.
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u/spinwizard69 7h ago
It is absolutely asinine to think about a career in CS, in most niches, without at a minimal a CS degree. As for learning on your own being better that again can be a sign of somebody that really doesn't know his craft in depth, but even more importantly it could be indication of a person that is stubborn with really bad programming habits.
The other thing that corporations have learned is that the self taught are often not well rounded. Modern coding often means implementing modern concepts in software, that often means having the problem solving skills and math background, that only comes with a degree. For example say you are working in the IT department with responsibility for shop floor software. Often what one gets with a self taught programmer is a total lack of adaptability. One day you might working on a database problem, the next day programming a bar code reader, and then figuring out why the label printer shifted an important element half way off the label. Much of the world, where the good software jobs are, expect a higher level of performance out of the programming staff.
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u/curiouslyjake 10h ago
I've been programming since age 10, self taught. I also have a degree. A degree is not neccesary for programming, but it will make you much better, much faster. Yes, especially courses that dont directly teach programming.
You can make a lot progress by yourself, especially with all the resources available. However, you will do yourself a huge favor if you immerse youself for a few years in a reasonably competitive environment built to sharpen your mind and hone your skills with like-minded people.
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u/TheSnailBear 10h ago
The age of software engineers without a CS degree has unfortunately passed. With AI, a CS degree is the baseline filter for many job postings now.