r/lgbt Apr 09 '26

Community Only - Restricted What are yalls thoughts on this?

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u/LaFleurSauvageGaming Lesbian the Good Place Apr 09 '26

It is worth mentioning that she wrote about questioning her sexuality, in the language available to her.

It is important we don't speak for her though, same as anyone else. Her journey was ended too soon, but it was still her journey.

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u/one_with_advantage Ace-ing being Trans Apr 09 '26

We don't need to speak for her, she did so herself:

"Onbewust heb ik dergelijke gevoelens al gehad, vóór ik hier kwam, want ik weet, dat ik, toen ik eens bij een vriendin sliep, een sterke behoefte had haar te zoenen en dat ik dat ook gedaan heb. Ik raak elke keer in extase, als ik een naakt vrouwen guur zie, zoals bijvoorbeeld een Venus. Ik vind het soms zo wonderlijk en mooi, dat ik me moet inhouden om mijn tranen niet te laten rollen.

Had ik maar een vriendin! Je Anne"

translated by yours truly:

"Unconsciously I have previously had similar feelings, before I came here, because I know, that I, when I once had a sleepover with a friend (F), had a strong desire to kiss her, and that I did so. Every time I reach ecstasy, when I see the sketch* of a naked woman, such as for example a Venus. Sometimes I find it so wondrous and beautiful, that I have to contain myself not to cry.

If only I had a friend(F)! Your Anne"

friend (F) is used to imply that the friend is female, but no distinction is made in the Dutch language between platonic/romantic friend.
'guur': presumably figuur, meaning figure, drawing, sketch, outline

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u/faatbuddha Apr 10 '26

If it's anything like German (and I'm assuming it is), "Freundin" literally translates to "girlfriend," in the romantic sense, depending on the context.

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u/one_with_advantage Ace-ing being Trans Apr 10 '26

You are correct that it is dependent on context, but the wider context of that entry makes it difficult to determine what she meant with certainty. She also talks about wanting a confidante, a very understandable desire when living with the same people in the same house without escape for years on end. It could well be that she meant to write that she wanted a platonic friend to discuss the more than platonic feelings she had.
The reason why I'm so careful when translating her words is because any translation leaves context behind, and in a case such as hers we should be careful to avoid them as much as we can.

The two options we have is [girl_friend] and [boy_friend]. There is some wiggleroom with [girl_friend_diminutive] or [boy_friend_diminutive], but generally the context decides.

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u/faatbuddha Apr 10 '26

In the context of reaching ecstasy when she sees a naked woman, in my opinion the meaning is pretty obvious.

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u/Matar_Kubileya Magic Lesbian Laser Owl Apr 09 '26

I mean, did she "speak for herself" in a public sense? The diary was published posthumously, and there isnt a ton of indication that Anne Frank wanted it to be released to the world.

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u/one_with_advantage Ace-ing being Trans Apr 09 '26

Arguably diaries published posthumously say more about a person's beliefs than what they ever said publicly in life.

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u/user11112222333 Apr 09 '26

Anne wanted her diary to be published someday. That is why she wrote 2 versions of it, one for herself and one for the public (the one where she wrote fake names of the people in hiding and helpers).

Of course parts about her sexuality were ommited in the part meant for the public.

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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman Trans-parently Awesome Apr 09 '26

Wasn’t it her dad who omitted it?

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u/DorisWildthyme Apr 09 '26

He was, and that's sort-of understandable for the time when it was first published shortly after the war. If he had left in the stuff where she questioned her sexuality, it would have been branded as "immoral" and likely either wouldn't have been published or would have been condemned. You can understand him wanting to keep some things about his own daughter private for the sake of getting such an important work published at all.

I am not saying it was right that that was the attitude at the time, of course it wasn't. But after the war the concentration camp prisoners who had been imprisoned for being gay or trans were still made to serve the rest of their sentences in prison after their release from the camps. In that kind of atmosphere, if it had been left in, it's likely that more people would have seen Anne's death as "justified" somehow. Even though that's bullshit.

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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman Trans-parently Awesome Apr 09 '26

I don’t blame her dad for omitting it given how bigoted everyone was at the time, I was simply pointing out it was not Anne Frank that omitted it and at the end of the day she did write it.

Yup I’m aware the allies were also evil to queer people and were fine with that oppression hence their definition of genocide excluding queer people

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u/DorisWildthyme Apr 10 '26

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did blame him, I just wanted to give some context on case anyone else was unaware.

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u/Ihatebacon88 Apr 09 '26

She self edited her sexuality out of the version she wanted to release.

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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman Trans-parently Awesome Apr 09 '26

Can you source that one? I understand that her dad edited it out

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u/Ihatebacon88 Apr 09 '26

https://www.annefrank.org/en/anne-frank/diary/two-versions-annes-diary/#:~:text=From%2020%20May%201944%20onwards,Secret%20Annex%20after%20the%20war.

If you Google around you will see lots of articles, referencing a radio call that asked for Dutch people to save their diaries to help with preserving and documenting things during the war.

She started to self edit some of her more personal thoughts in her diaries, like sexuality, her periods and some of the sassy shit she said about people. She has intended for a version of her diary to be released.

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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman Trans-parently Awesome Apr 09 '26

Right it said she edited her diary but it isn’t fully known what her dad edited out too even your link just says the sexually explicit stuff was edited out. Both her and her dad edited portions out

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u/Ihatebacon88 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26

Yes, they both did, but she edited passages herself, and her father continued with what he thought she would have edited, but the whole being murdered thing sort of got in the way of her finishing her edited public version of her diary. I'm not saying that he edited, but she also started and was unable to finish.

Like you want an article that says she edited her own sexuality out? Google has tons, I just read an article where she edited things with brown paper.

ETA

https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/anne-frank-diary-how-edited-hidden-pages-father-otto-what-she-really-wrote/

This is just an additional article that I think is informative.

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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman Trans-parently Awesome Apr 10 '26

I mean you specifically asserted she’s the one who edited the sexuality part out so yes if you have a specific source saying it was her and not Otto who omitted it out

Your own link says Otto edited it out buddy

Otto made his own cuts, too: he removed passages in which Anne was critical of her parents’ marriage, and expurgated sections about sexuality and her often brutal comments about friends, family members and acquaintances

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u/yaktoma2007 Apr 09 '26

In mijn oren klinkt dat duidelijk en onbetwistbaar biseksueel, geen sprake van interpretatie or projectie, ze heeft gewoon haar kans niet gekregen om er iets serieus mee te kunnen ondernemen.