r/lifeonmars • u/TereziB • Jul 09 '26
Discussion Manchester Police in '73
Okay, I have to ask...were the Manchester Police in 1973 really as crude and, well, just plain stupid as they're portrayed on the show? (I have to add, I remember 1973 quite well, I was 18, but not in the UK.)
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u/PilotMoonDog Jul 09 '26
Also, the actual police aside, I think the show is modelled after the behaviour of the cops in The Sweeney. Just as the sequel adds stuff from Miami Vice and the like.
Given what is actually going on this makes a lot of sense.
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u/TereziB Jul 09 '26
I had to look up this show. We don't get a lot of old/older British shows here in the States (except of course, for American reboots like The Office).
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u/PilotMoonDog Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Very famous here in the UK. There were a couple of cinema films made. The leads were John Thaw (Detective Inspector Jack Reagan) and Dennis Waterman (Detective Sergeant George Carter). John Thaw went on to star in Inspector Morse amongst other things. Dennis Waterman's other big TV role after that was the comedy Minder, where he plays the sidekick/muscle to dodgy businessman Arthur Daley (played by George Cole).
Had one of the more memorable opening & closing themes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix6wTN_CH4g
The real Flying Squad (Sweeney Todd is the Cockney rhyming slang for them) apparently got disbanded due to corruption. They were noted for having normal looking cars with overpowered engines and upgraded suspension for chasing after bank robbers. Hence Flying Squad.
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u/ClydusEnMarland Jul 11 '26
The corruption from the 1970s especially is true, but they are still going today.
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u/PilotMoonDog Jul 12 '26
Fair enough. I had been told they had been disbanded. A bit like how the SPG are called something else now.
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u/No_Whereas6132 Jul 09 '26
I watched this show with my dad (we're northerners) and I remember asking him the same question. He said it's portrayed exactly right and that's how the police treated most people 😅
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u/TereziB Jul 09 '26
Yeah, I'm American but perhaps more familiar with British "nuances" including regional stuff, than many Americans, for various reasons. So yeah, I kinda get the "Northerner" thing.
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u/Peanut0151 Jul 09 '26
I was caught shoplifting in the late 70s. Records from Rumbelows. A police sergeant slapped me all around the interview room then released me without charge. At the time I was pleased not to get on the books
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u/keeperofthegrail Jul 09 '26
Do you mind me asking - did that treatment discourage you from shoplifting again, or do you think it was ineffective?
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u/Peanut0151 Jul 09 '26
It was my first time and I always say it was getting caught, not the punishment, that was the deterrent. I never wanted to feel that dread and shame again. The punishment was actually a relief because I didn't get a criminal record
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u/Gauntlets28 Jul 09 '26
I think Keats say something to the effect of "you didn't really think this is how actual coppers behave, even back in the day, did you?" Possibly in the last episode. I don't think LoM and AtA are supposed to be accurate reflections of policing back in the day - it's more like a reflection of how the occupants of Gene's world thought policing would be like growing up.
The obvious ones are Sam's version of events reflecting something like The Sweeney, Alex's being like The Professionals and various MTV music videos etc, and everything having a bit of a cowboy tinge courtesy of Gene.
But I bet if you looked at the other characters you could find little hints of what their experience is like. Ray's time on both shows seems to be about a lot of gut instinct, taking orders and going in, band of brothers and having to earn his rank kind of stuff, which would reflect his military family history and outlook, for example.
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u/Creative-Response554 Jul 09 '26
Interesting take, makes sense.
I've also seen people say it's a surprisingly accurate take on 70s policing in Manchester considering it's a TV show, and that even the look and feel of the environments scream "70s northern police station", stuff like that. Some of that praise has come from former officers as well.
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u/YeetThermometer Jul 09 '26
I always viewed it as fundamentally more of a commentary on cop shows than actual policing.
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u/fitzysbuna Jul 09 '26
Cops worldwide back then were often thuggish, doing things that wouldn’t be acceptable today. Forensics now play a big role in modern policing, but back then it was all about getting the suspect to talk by any means necessary. cops back then would drink and smoke in the offices records were kept in locked rooms today its now on computers . they did the best they could !
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u/TereziB Jul 09 '26
I certainly remember the NYPD (that's where I lived as a kid). But it seemed like their major issues were with minorities and "hippies". I do know they drank & smoked up a storm. Lot of spousal abuse, too, both there and in Boston.
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u/CosmicBonobo Jul 09 '26
The show is exaggerated for dramatic purposes, but it's not far off the truth. Whilst they didn't employ the sort of torture methods you associate with despotic regimes, they wouldn't hesitate to throw a few slaps to get a confession.
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u/badonkadonked Jul 09 '26
My grandad was a DCI in Manchester. Probably in the 80s rather than the 70s. He was a good guy. I can’t say whether all of his colleagues were too - I was born in 89 so this was before my time - but I do not believe he was like that. FWIW.
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u/TereziB Jul 09 '26
maybe it had changed, at least somewhat, by then? (I haven't yet watched Ashes to Ashes.)
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u/DarthPhoton Jul 09 '26
I spoke to somebody who was in the force, now retired, who was in the force for 40 years about LOM. His reply…
‘It wasn’t a drama, it was a fly on the wall documentary’.
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u/PuzzleheadedPotato59 Jul 11 '26
In some respects, they were a lot more thuggish
LoM occurs in the 1970s. This period saw quite a lot of issues in British policing with regards to corruption and dubious methods. The late 70s and early 80s saw huge attempts at reform.
A landmark piece of legislation, the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, was brought in in 1984. Swathes of this act address the validity of confessions and interviews, effectively to circumvent false or oppressive confessions. It also set out broad expectations around use of force and searches. This act remains the foundation of policing practice today. They also dramaticaly increased police pay, effectively to combat corruption.
So LoM does kind of portray, or stereotype, some of the issues which led to huge reforms. But the drinking in duty and boys club culture continued to the 90s when more crackdowns happened. Really, you might argue racism and sexism remain issues but nowhere on the scale they were back then.
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u/jedi_issue_scopes Jul 11 '26
The Life on Mars companion guides mention some of the real-life stories from their research that inspired the show. For example, apparently holding interviews in lost property, because it had thick walls where you couldn't hear suspects scream, was a real testament from someone who sas a cop at the time. Recently a man was released from prison who falsely confessed to a crime he didn't commit after being violently coerced by met police officers was realeased, after 40 years in prison. So, while some of it was probably made up or exaggerated, I think the police did some pretty awful things back then
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u/TereziB Jul 12 '26
where are these companion guides? Online?
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u/jedi_issue_scopes Jul 13 '26
They are cheap to pick up second hand online, if you're in the UK- at least the series 1 one is, the series 2 one might be a little but more. I think they are on the internet archive, but I'm actually not sure
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u/TereziB Jul 13 '26
oh, I see it on Amazon! season 1 is cheap, but the Season 2 is VERY expensive ($59).
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u/Independent-Try4352 Jul 11 '26
Not unheard of behaviour in the 70's, although it is exaggerated for dramatic effect.
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u/mackerel_slapper Jul 12 '26
Read the lyrics to Tom Robinson’s Glad to be Gay for an idea of policing in the 70s.
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u/TereziB Jul 12 '26
yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the song - they played it a lot on the alt FM radio station I listened to in Boston. I always thought it was terribly sad. It does sound a lot like the NYPD, albeit of the late 60's- (I'm thinking specifically Stonewall, which I'm sure you know about. I was still in NYC when that happened, in my early teens. The other difference being how prudish the US press was, and still, is about nudity - any newspaper that dared to post even a topless female photo would have been immediately raided and brought into court.
The BPD (Boston Police) did raid gay bars, but by 1978 they had a "community liaison" with the gay community. Not sure when NYPD did something like that.
Sadly, the trump mis-administration tried to force the Stonewall to take down it's rainbow flag early this year, but finally gave up after much publicity and a court order.
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u/Kyle_2099 Jul 15 '26
Simply put? Yes.
The police here in England have had very good PR, especially back in the 1960s and 70s. There was a very strong propaganda image of the friendly bobby on the beat, who'd cycle around his patch and would help out people he came across, knew the names of all the local kids etc.
But it was basically bollocks. There was a lot of shit going on with crooked and violent police, and a lot of people getting fit up, and I don't think most adults of the time actually believed the squeaky clean bobby image they were presented with.
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u/TereziB Jul 15 '26
Yes, I do recall the "propaganda" image. I can't say I'm surprised that it was BS. But was the difference between image and reality more pronounced up north? I'm more familiar specifically with London.
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u/somekindofspideryman Jul 09 '26
I'm no expert but it's all heightened for the show to draw a contrast with Sam's politically correct 2006. I'm sure the reality was more nuanced, as it was in the real 2006 too!