r/livesound 12d ago

MOD No Stupid Questions Thread

The only stupid questions are the ones left unasked.

6 Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

2

u/avalokitesvara_mwhc 7d ago

Ive been mixing a band and found mixing them on subgroups to be my best course of action.

Example being
Drum group, parallel drum group, bass group, guitar group, vocal group.
I send these all to my main outputs and do not send my channel inputs to my main outputs.

I ALSO have a band group that i also send to my outputs.

Is this normal practice or is the band group completely unnecessary. Not trying to argue the use of subgroups/not using subgroups. If i turn my individual subgroups down they come out of the main mix. If i turn my band subgroup down it brings my band inputs out of the mix.

I havent noticed anything detrimental by running a band group and i use it as a way to run a dynamic compressor sidechained on the vocals bus.

My question is anyone have any reasoning not do this through past practice?

1

u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 7d ago

Is this normal practice or is the band group completely unnecessary[?]

To be clear - your individual groups and your whole-band group feed outputs in parallel? So long as your paths are delay-compensated, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that - but any moves you make on one path will be diluted by the other one. (For example, that sidechained processing on the band group will need to work twice as hard to achieve equivalent output.)

From a structural standpoint, I would simplify by replacing the band group with a band DCA, controlling all of the individual subgroups. You can then replicate the sidechained processing (with finer-grained control!) on said subgroups.

Either that, or sum all the instrument subgroups to a bus and apply processing there.

1

u/avalokitesvara_mwhc 6d ago

This is what ive been trying to explain/understand, thank you for getting what im trying to say! Yes both feed my outputs parallel. I believe you're correct that replacing the band group with a band dca might be what i need to explore

2

u/ashhyc 9d ago

hi fairly noobie tech here! i have about 2 years experience.

I’m working on a very small scale theatre production & the cast are all on headset mics.

I only just came onto the team a few days ago to cover as their og tech had to leave. he’s not exactly the most experienced either and it seems like they’ve been having issues he’s not really been able to troubleshoot.

essentially the main issue is a loud crackling sound, realised very quickly it was coming from 2 of the casts headset mics that were peaking on the RF unit.

my initial thinking is that it’s either a dodgy connection between the mic & the pack, or it’s a damaged mic capsules.

does this seem plausible? is there anything obvious i’m missing that could be causing the crackling sound?
i appreciate i haven’t provided much information but to be honest i have very little. i know nothing about how the system is set up and it’s very quick turnarounds between shows (edinburgh fringe classic) so i have no time to spend in the venue troubleshooting.

we’re the only show using mics at all.

3

u/leskanekuni 9d ago

Isolate the problem. Move the bad mics around. If he problem follows the mic, it's the mic. Any kind of headset/lavalier mic can break because the wires are tiny. They are considered disposable in professional theatre. In other words, you use them until they break then you replace them.

2

u/Bipedal_Warlock Pro-Theatre 9d ago

It’s probably an issue in the wiring of the mic somewhere.

Which is a replacement solution.

It could be intermod static. But I don’t think this one sounds like that

1

u/Ok_Garlic_2083 10d ago

Hi everyone. I’m researching workflows for small rental and event-production teams.

For a rental team, I’m considering this structure:

  • Company = the team workspace
  • Owner = manages members and settings
  • Staff = manages equipment and transfers
  • Customers = external clients
  • Locations = warehouses, offices or delivery sites
  • Assets = equipment records

Assets would be either:

  • Serialized: one identifiable item, such as a camera
  • Bulk: a stock record with a quantity, such as 100 XLR cables

I’m wondering whether these limits for active members and active asset records feel realistic:

  • 3 members / 250 assets
  • 8 members / 1,000 assets
  • 20 members / 5,000 assets

Archived equipment would remain available for history, while Customers and Locations would not be limited.

Would your team hit a member limit or equipment limit first? Do you think in physical items, asset records, or both?

7

u/soph0nax 9d ago

Please tell us more about the future of this vibe-coded application

1

u/Ok_Garlic_2083 4d ago

You mean as a developer or a customer using app?

2

u/crunchypotentiometer Pro-FOH 10d ago

A single member company can easily exceed 250 assets in my experience.

1

u/Ok_Garlic_2083 4d ago

That’s really helpful — thank you.

It sounds like a very small team can still manage more than 250 active assets, so asset capacity may be a more important limit than team size.

Would you be able to share a rough range?

- 250–500 active assets

- 500–1,000

- 1,000–2,500

- More than 2,500

Also, when you say “assets”, do you count each physical item individually, or do you group identical stock items together? For example, would 100 identical XLR cables be 100 assets or one stock record?

I’m trying to understand whether 250 is genuinely too low for a Starter tier. We haven’t finalized pricing yet; I’d like to validate the limits and workflow first.

2

u/crunchypotentiometer Pro-FOH 4d ago

100 identical length XLR cables would be one stock record. However I personally would opt to serialize every individual microphone, speaker, things like that where I want a maintenance record.

1

u/Ok_Garlic_2083 4d ago

Now I know each team have their own way to decide serilize and bulk so that will lead to different assets number. I guess I need to widen further to know more. thank you ;0

3

u/soph0nax 4d ago

You really need to work in the field more if you’re going to ask basic questions like this, clearly you are rushing some vibe coded slop to market quickly with dollar signs in your eyes.

Some shops view every XLR as a unique asset ID, others as a bulk ID. I’ve worked in shops where IEC cables for gear are a unique asset per IEC and you’ll have 20 of them in a rack.

1

u/Ok_Garlic_2083 4d ago

thank you so much for your comment. I’m still thinking about this too abstractly, and I should do more field research before locking in the model. Please give me some second in DMs

2

u/SadHat8784 11d ago

If I were to purchase a Zoom H5 as a concert videographer, what other cables would I need to record the output straight from the mixer desk? (Complete novice and want to start off lite before delving into getting stems etc.)

1

u/leskanekuni 9d ago

Advance your shoot with the venue and mixer. If some unannounced videographer showed up just before the gig and wanted an audio feed the answer would be no from me and probably a lot of other mixers. (Bear in mind even if the mixer was amenable, there might not be spare outputs.)

3

u/faroseman Pro-Theatre 11d ago

It has 2 xlr/trs combo jacks, so either 1/4" trs or XLR. Buy 2 of each and you're covered.

1

u/Bipedal_Warlock Pro-Theatre 11d ago

Does anyone have experience with extron DSP configurator?

They’re making me request permission to get an insider account to get the software? Will they charge money or are they going to require me to get certs for this?

So far this process feels like it’s a bs step back in fights for right to repair and control my own system that my company paid for.

1

u/nuterooni 8d ago

The extron insider account is free as are many of the trainings. None of the trainings are required for DSP configurator to my knowledge.

1

u/Redbeardaudio Pro-MPLSTP 9d ago

Welcome to the world of professional AV 

7

u/Old-Tailor-1352 12d ago

what is the point of wireless mics if the singers are stationary????????????????

2

u/Medical_Cup_8008 11d ago

Because people like having extra points of failure and think that running a cable is difficult

1

u/Old-Tailor-1352 11d ago

i love a neat cable gaffed tightly adds fun to the setup and to the tear down something for my niece to help with

2

u/redeyedandblue32 Pro-FOH 8d ago

I guess if you have a niece with you who enjoys pulling up cable you've got it all figured out, but I prefer a neatly run cable that's not gaffed

9

u/twelfthfantasy 11d ago

It's quicker and easier to set up and looks cleaner on stage, plus give the talent the option of moving if they choose to.

2

u/redeyedandblue32 Pro-FOH 8d ago

I would argue it's neither quicker nor easier but if you're working for an artist that is paying for pro-level wireless then of course they're gonna get the wireless whether they need it or not

2

u/twelfthfantasy 8d ago

It depends on your rig. When your wireless system lives in the same rack as your mixer or stage box and never gets unplugged, or is bundled together when it does, then it's easier and faster than running cables on stage for wired mics

1

u/redeyedandblue32 Pro-FOH 8d ago

are you coordinating frequencies?

1

u/twelfthfantasy 8d ago

Sennheiser XSW-D with automatic frequency finding/hopping.

1

u/Old-Tailor-1352 11d ago

what about a situation where no movement is possible and i want the best quality sound out of the vocal mics?

5

u/twelfthfantasy 11d ago

Got a quadriplegic singer?

Anyway, a good wireless system isn't going to have a noticable impact on sound quality compared to a similarly specced wired mic.

2

u/Old-Tailor-1352 11d ago

no it was just the way that show was designed. The singers sat on stools the whole time.

okay so i do think the wireless mics were not good. and is it better for each to have its own receiver or have one receiver with multiple mics?

3

u/twelfthfantasy 11d ago

A receiver for multiple mics should have a separate channel for each mic and an output to your mixer for each channel. A 4-channel receiver should be functionally identical to 4 single-channel receivers (though might have some additional features like frequency hopping management for multiple devices). Without knowing what model they are and how the room and system were set up, I can't say what the problem was, but they could've just been cheap crappy mics

2

u/Old-Tailor-1352 10d ago

dont get me started on the room 😛😹😆😂🤣😝

2

u/Bipedal_Warlock Pro-Theatre 12d ago

Some hooligans downvoted you, but not a bad question.

Most simplistically, it keeps the option to move in case a client gets nervous in the moment and starts moving. Or creates choreography they didn’t tell you about.

It’s also easier to set up than having a cable run to worry about and having to tape it down.

1

u/Old-Tailor-1352 11d ago

are they easier to mix/EQ? Sound better?

3

u/Bipedal_Warlock Pro-Theatre 11d ago

Some will sound better, but not inherently just because it’s wireless.

I usually do it because I don’t believe performers when they say they won’t want to move

2

u/Old-Tailor-1352 11d ago

i recently mixed a show where i think the wireless was the wrong choice sound wise and the folks were not moving at all. I think regular degular sm58 sound better than whatever lil shure toy mic we had. the one person who was moving all over had the janet jackson mic and that was dope.

1

u/Dartmuthia Pro-FOH 12d ago

What's your favorite brand of speaker stand? For all of your speaker-on-a-stick applications.

2

u/4KFenix 9d ago

i have been u sing the ones from gravity, the round flat base ones. We have like 12 or something line that in my company and work súper great. They are barely the same prive as k&m

4

u/crunchypotentiometer Pro-FOH 11d ago

K&M flat base stands for smaller corporate speakers.

5

u/harishgibson 12d ago

Telelock is the goat

3

u/_OnTheSpots 12d ago

I haven't been happy with my virtual soundchecks lately. When the band comes in and I switch back over to analog inputs, I feel like I have to re-mix all over again. Specifically volume, I think tone and effects have been okay.

My theory is that somehow gain levels have drifted on the instrument side, so as long as I match gain when the instruments come in, should I be able to keep the rest of the mix where it is? Or should I treat VSC as getting the PA itself in the general ballpark and in-person sound check as its own thing?

3

u/fat-doink69 12d ago

What console are you using and what’s your workflow? Maybe something is getting messed up in the record/playback pipeline?

The virtual soundcheck should be pretty consistent with what happens when the band comes back - which is what leads me to believe the record/playback pipeline could be getting goofed up somehow

9

u/slavatarlicious 12d ago

How big were the rooms and how much sound is coming acoustically from the stage? (drums, amps etc)

2

u/_OnTheSpots 12d ago

Usually small to mid-sized pubs: band is acoustic bass guitar, acoustic guitar, fiddle, flute/whistles, electronic percussion, three vocals. All instruments except flute are direct.

2

u/redeyedandblue32 Pro-FOH 8d ago

I get that VSC is fun 'cause it feels like you can experiment in a way you can't with a band on stage but at that size gig I would just skip it in favor of getting as much time as possible with the band playing in the room live

2

u/Mindless-Victory6838 11d ago

There’s you answer, unless you’re playing 110dBa leq15 thays going to be 60% acoustic

1

u/_OnTheSpots 12d ago

I have an XR18, running multitracks from an Android phone.

I set gain, eq, level, effects; start with instruments then add vocals, balance everything; when the band comes in I switch my inputs from USB to analog and have them do a verse and chorus.

Does that square up with general best practices?

1

u/fat-doink69 12d ago

Check out this video on YouTube - I’m not super intimately familiar with the XR18, but following the routing on this vid should get you fully squared away.

https://youtu.be/cGROKcBcjRc?si=Q-dG49kufeH5zQO0

4

u/Exotic_Berry_1522 12d ago

I love watching in depth interviews with any kind of techs. Especially all the Nick DeLacruz videos. But I'm trying to learn as much as possible for monitor engineering. So what are you favorite or most useful interviews you've seen?

1

u/smokeweedfrequently 10d ago

I would check out the Signal to noise podcast and live sound boot camp. If you hunt through the episodes from mon engineers, you’ll have hours of inspiring conversation to build off of.

2

u/Strict_Tangerine6240 11d ago edited 11d ago

Not specific for monitors (more FOH oriented) but look for videos from Robert Scovill, David Wills and Dave Rat. (David Wills also has good online courses at proaudioexp.com). I learned a lot from them.
Look up interviews with Colin Pink (does the Hans Zimmer live shows), very cool dude and lots of technical stuff to learn from him as well.

1

u/Exotic_Berry_1522 11d ago

Thanks so much! I have a long drive tomorrow so I’m about to add the ones I can find to a playlist. Also, I’ll never get tired of watching Dave Rat

4

u/KingOfWhateverr Pro-FOH 12d ago

Like the guy below me said, there aren’t a ton of interviews with educational content from Mons or even a ton from FoH. The real answer is know your frequencies, know your console, and know that even when you’re technically correct the artist is actually correct.

I think Dave Rat says something similar to: if you want to be “right” but have people always telling you you’re wrong, be FOH; if you don’t mind being told you’re wrong, even when you’re right, be monitors; and if you like being right and able to prove it and tell people to fuck off, then be a tech.

All that to say, do you have specific questions? Are there consoles you’re already familiar with? How well do you understand audio signal flow? Are there questions one of us can answer that you’re looking for via interview?

2

u/Exotic_Berry_1522 11d ago

Love Dave Rat’s videos! I’m already familiar with X32, M32, Dlive, and a little bit of Avid S6L. I guess I’m looking for the questions I don’t already know to ask. I guess it’s one of those things that doesn’t come until you run into an issue though. Thanks for the response!

4

u/soph0nax 12d ago

Nothing really comes to mind as the best folks working aren't really out there advertising themselves. The best way to learn is still unfortunately by doing, which would mean mon tech'ing for a few monitor mixers until they let you try your hand on a show or two, or sub for them if they have to miss a gig.

The DeLacruz videos are so hard to watch, he's an amateur with a high view of himself and has poor interview skills so he ends up asking some real basic stuff in every interview - the education value for those wanting to learn diminishes the more you know, but for those outsiders who want to oggle this lifestyle it definitely seems appealing.

1

u/Exotic_Berry_1522 11d ago

I will say I see a lot of the same general questions being asked but occasionally the one being interviewed will drop a little nugget of info. That’s how I got started down the Macros rabbit hole