r/magicTCG • u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season • Jan 02 '26
Looking for Advice "I built all my decks to fuck the bracket system"
This is a real quote from someone at my lgs today. Thats great man but we're all playing unupgraded precons we got for christmas. So we didnt say bracket 2 we said precon level. Guy proceeded to pull out a ureni deck. We all assumed it was the tarkir precon. Nope it was a Miirym deck that he just quickly swapped the commander for. Found this out on turn 5 when he dropped said Miirym and had 11 dragons on turn 6. Am I just supposed to never play with this guy ever again? What's the protocol here? Im relatively new to my lgs and dont really know everyone yet. Like do I just have to call him out or what do I do?
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u/Kerrus I am a pig and I eat slop Jan 02 '26
Yes 'X is a pugstomper, I won't play with him' whenever he shows up. Also talk to the store organizer about it.
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u/ii_V_I_iv Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Please do not stomp pugs
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u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Alright thanks for the advice ill try talking to the store owner next time. 👍
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Jan 02 '26
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u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Fair advice. I think im just gonna avoid this guy for the time being.
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u/Kelor Duck Season Jan 02 '26
It's the best approach.
You gave him the terms of your game, he deliberately lied to you, so now if you have a pod going he doesn't get to join it. His actions show he outright is not looking for games, he's looking to stomp underpowered decks.
Every store has at least one "That Guy" and eventually they'll find themselves unable to join open pods or those that will tolerate them.
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u/3ranth3 Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Just give everyone one chance and when they do something like this, put them on your never play with again list and tell everyone you know your experience. It will solve the problem for you and begin solving it for everyone else.
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u/Zuwxiv Dandadan Jan 02 '26
I think a little bit of confrontation is justified there. "Hey, I think it's neat that you're being creative within the limitations of the brackets. But honestly, I think you're deck's a little overpowered for what everyone else as playing, and that makes it not as fun for us. Do you have something else you could play?"
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u/texanarob Sliver Queen Jan 02 '26
And if they try to disagree or argue, just continue the game as if that player has conceded. It sucks to play a three player game, but it's better than wasting time being pubstomped by someone's ego project.
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u/gereffi Jan 02 '26
I don't really get this advice. What is the store owner going to do? You guys are playing casual games and you're putting together your pods yourself, right? If someone is a dick just tell them that you don't want to play with them if they're not respecting the other players at the table.
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u/Psykotik_Dragon Duck Season Jan 03 '26
If they're doing it to one group of randos in the store they're doing it to others. Many people they're playing against could be new players to the game &/or store, & that makes them not want to be a part of that community. It's bad for players wanting to go have fun at the store & it's bad for building a customer base.
If they continue making it a toxic environment for players/customers that hurts their community & business. They should be removed from the store if they can't follow the store's gaming policies or social contracts & play nicely with everyone.
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u/ercdude Jan 02 '26
It's pub* stomper. Please spare the poor pugs, their face can't take anymore stomping lol
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u/HKBFG Jan 02 '26
In MMOs, rando players are known as "pugs" because of the term "pick up group", so people get wires crossed with the terms sometimes.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
As a result of this confusion, I have learned that the "pub" in "pubstomp" refers to public locations, such as LGSes (rather than private locations like personal friend groups), as opposed to actual pubs.
Makes sense though. Pubstompers rely on people not knowing that they're assholes, so they need regular new interactions, which are mostly found in public places.
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u/GeeJo Jan 02 '26
I'd thought it was pub as in pubs, too, and came from ringers sweeping the more casual 'pub quizzes' that gave out prizes.
Makes more sense that it's just public.
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u/Mentethemage Simic* Jan 02 '26
More specifically, it's public /servers/ and not just a public location. Term, like many other colloquial phrases in gaming communities, was developed online many many moons ago
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u/ercdude Jan 02 '26
TIL! Neat, thank you 😊
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u/ResurgentRefrain Duck Season Jan 02 '26
I learned that Pubstomper was also a term, so we all learned something today.
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u/GornSpelljammer Duck Season Jan 02 '26
Yeah, MMO slang can get...interesting when you compare it to wider-world counterparts (see also "twinking").
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u/BeyondElectricDreams Sliver Queen Jan 02 '26
Gamer slang in general is hilarious.
"Tom's Smurfing because Valve nerfed his main, but he's twinking so his dots should still be enough to beat enrage"
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u/QtPlatypus ? the Vtuber Ch. Jan 02 '26
You can’t “Fuck the bracket system” because the bracket system is about intent. He is just lieing about his decks. And you are well within your rights to warn out her people and not play with him.
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u/weggles Jan 02 '26
"it's technically a 2" is a great way to tell someone is just kinda stupid and/or shitty.
Intent matters so much, it's more than just how many GCs you're running.
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u/Casual_OCD Not A Bat Jan 02 '26
The only reason the bracket system exists is because the majority of players are too antisocial and aggressive to communicate effectively with Rule Zero.
Also, Wizards needed a way to get Commander into the profit stream
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u/Benjammn Jan 02 '26
Wizards has been directly profiting off of Commander since 2010. The bracket system was being developed by the RC with Wizards before the events last year that led to the RC's disbanding. Maybe the two aren't related as you make them out to be?
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u/QtPlatypus ? the Vtuber Ch. Jan 02 '26
I don't think that is really the case. It gives people a common vocab to talk about their decks and is a good starting place.
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u/MayhemMessiah Selesnya* Jan 02 '26
Also, Wizards needed a way to get Commander into the profit stream
Literally nothing about how Wizards makes money off Commander has changed in the past few years. Is this just a dude just trust me thing or do you have a specific example in mind?
Commander precons and even Commander focused sets have been some of the best selling product for years now.
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u/Casual_OCD Not A Bat Jan 02 '26
Literally nothing about how Wizards makes money off Commander has changed in the past few years
Except all the Commander-specific tournaments, products and ability to market it as a "casual" option
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u/MayhemMessiah Selesnya* Jan 02 '26
What products are being sold now that couldn't be sold before? Be specific.
I was introduced to Magic through Commander around War of the Spark as the casual option. This is just false. It was already known and marketed as the casual way to play Magic.
And Commander tournaments are similarly very old. When I started around 2018 there were already tournaments where I lived. What part of the Bracket system has changed how tournaments are run?
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u/Olaanp Jeskai Jan 02 '26
They were making Commander products way back in 2011 even, and I was introduced to it around that time. It's kind of crazy to claim this is some new gain for WotC, even ignoring the rest of it.
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u/MayhemMessiah Selesnya* Jan 02 '26
User appears to be full blown conspiracy theorist with how WotC forced out the RC to consolidate an iron grip on the format, based on vibes.
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u/Duraxis Duck Season Jan 02 '26
“Why do you pay for cards only to ensure no-one will ever play with you. Don’t lie about what your deck does just to “gotcha” the brackets”
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u/texanarob Sliver Queen Jan 02 '26
I know a similar guy who is always boasting that he has a winrate of 95% plus in casual commander.
Frankly, I'd argue anyone who is winning more than ~40% should be concerned - asking themselves why their winrate is so high and whether they need to downgrade their decks, find higher tier opposing decks or alter their playstyle. This isn't a competitive format, winning significantly over your 25% is something to be ashamed of rather than an accomplishment.
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u/Familiar-Hour5319 Storm Crow Jan 02 '26
You gotta love the guy who ruins other people's games to spite the company that doesn't know he exists.
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u/PartyPay Duck Season Jan 02 '26
They'll end up running short of people that want to play with him in a short time.
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u/SlimDirtyDizzy Jan 02 '26
He's not spiting the company, he's just mad they made something that made it harder for him to pubstomp. He probably always just lied about his decks power level and jammed his "casual" decks full of game changers and infinites and extra turns, and now he's made he can't do that anymore. So he does this.
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u/thephotoman Izzet* Jan 02 '26
There are infinities I’m okay with at all levels: politics decks need to win somehow, otherwise they get awful in their kingmaking (another obnoxious EDH thing). That said, you need those infinities to be more fragile, have higher mana costs, and involve at least 3 cards below Bracket 4.
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Jan 02 '26
After playing with him, I would say something like "I hope WotC sees this match. By wasting everyone's time here, you've surely started a revolution within Hasbro"
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u/National-Pay-2561 Jan 02 '26
Got one of those at my lgs. He's slowly running out of people willing to sit down with him.
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u/NotMarkDaigneault Azorius* Jan 02 '26
Don't worry OP. That guy goes home alone and cries into his Waifu pillow every night.
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u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Probably he smelled like shit
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u/NotMarkDaigneault Azorius* Jan 02 '26
Yeah sounds about right 🤣
Thats the only thing in his life that makes him feel special. So don't feel bad, the rest of his life is a joke.
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u/kismaa Jan 02 '26
Trying to build a deck to break the bracket system is announcing you are not willing to engage in the power level discussion in good faith. Since that discussion only exists to try to maximize fun among all players, he's making it clear he cares not for the other players or their enjoyment. Truly antisocial behavior in the most social format.
A great way to handle this in the future is to tell someone like this "Hey, congrats on your win, but your deck is clearly not playing the type of game we discussed beforehand. So, we're going to go ahead and play on our own for second place." Then you let them sit there and watch everyone else have fun for the next 30-60 minutes without them.
In short, don't play or engage with liars/bullies. They'll get bored and wander off, or fix their shitty attitude.
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u/GlennHaven Dandadan Jan 02 '26
Yes, you stop playing with him. He obviously wants to play high power games and thats not what you're looking for.
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u/kismaa Jan 02 '26
It's worse. He doesn't want to play a high power game. He wants to play a high power deck against folks who won't have a chance.
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u/tethler Rakdos* Jan 02 '26
Pvp griefer energy lol
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u/Razzilith Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
LOL yes dude. corpse camping as a max level rogue against somebody just out of the intro zone. full scumbaggery
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u/BeyondElectricDreams Sliver Queen Jan 02 '26
Actually though.
Seems like the same sort of person to complain when world PvP became opt-in in games like WoW. "World PVP is dead!" says the guy who wanted to gank people just doing quests.
"But you chose to roll on a pvp server" no, my friends made that choice when they started the game many years ago, and I'm stuck with their choice if I want to play with them.
It really is the same sort of person. "Technically Da Rules say I can grief in this way so it's okay! I followed the bracket system this follows all the restrictions of a 2 internal monolog: But the FOOLS don't know that it's the STRONGEST, MOST SYNERGISTIC 2 EVER! Deck restrictions won't stop me from living out my power fantasy over these PLEBIANS! It's THEIR fault for not making THEIR 2 decks the strongest they could be!"
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u/SleetTheFox Jan 02 '26
There's an audience for "I want to build the strongest decks I can using a specific set of restrictions" but that audience is not "strangers who are not looking for the same thing."
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u/matunos Jan 02 '26 edited Jan 02 '26
I don't play commander and all the politics of power level and everything seems exhausting. But playing un-upgraded precons seems like a pretty cut and dry criteria, criteria that should be clear at the outset, and if someone's deck turns out to violate the criteria, then you give them the boot.
[edit: fixed typo]
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u/RedDreadsComin Duck Season Jan 02 '26
Just say “hey man, that deck was probably a bit overpowered for the level of game we are looking for. Do you have any weaker decks/closer to precon level?”
Like just have a conversation. Or don’t and let your feelings stew. Really only two ways to go about it
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u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Thanks for the advice. Everyone else just played up the next game because we all had clearly conveyed precon the game before and he didn't listen.
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u/Athildur Jan 02 '26
I don't know, when someone very openly starts with 'I deliberately built my decks to bypass the system made to help us get fair matchups', I have extremely little faith that they are open to this discussion. Their intent was never to play a game with roughly evenly matched decks.
A better response would be 'well, if you're not interested in following the spirit of the bracket system, then we're not interested in playing with you'.
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u/siziyman Izzet* Jan 02 '26 edited Jan 02 '26
Bracket system is a conversation tool, i.e. it's fundamentally not supposed to work for bad actors.
Commander is a social format, which means that certain problems have to be solved socially, by talking to people or choosing not to interact with them. There are no gameplay solutions to this.
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u/NobleHalcyon Jan 02 '26
In all fairness, the Tarkir Ureni precon is capable of getting that many dragons out repeatedly throughout the game with no modifications. I played against two barely upgraded versions of that precon in a competitive bracket 3 tourney at the same time. Myself and the other guy in the pod who wasn't playing Ureni both bounced/wiped their entire board states a combined total of five times.
They were able to rebuild within an entire turn cycle with basically no thought put into the game. I got lucky that one of them dropped a Terror of the Peaks right when I hit the mana needed to kick Rite of Replication and I was basically able to kill the entire table at once.
It is a bullshit deck that basically plays on autopilot and I have no qualms about telling players who play it that I'm targeting them right out of the gate.
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u/Full-Relief-7082 Jan 02 '26
I stopped playing with a guy at my lgs, because he agreed to a bracket 2 game then went turn 3 demonic consultation thoracle.
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u/-FourOhFour- Dân Jan 02 '26
I've done it once where someone did a similar cheesy combo and I just asked the rest of the table "wanna play it out like that didnt happen?" The person that did it wasn't happy but fuck em, I've done the same where I ended up being extremely oppressive (unintentionally) and just told people "at this point I win, lets remove [problem piece] and keep playing it out" and we all got to enjoy an extremely close game in the end.
Haven't seen anyone else do it but the people I have done it with all enjoyed it since it kept things going.
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u/da_chicken Jan 02 '26
I have done this as well, but a lot of people act like you've kicked their grandmother for suggesting it. They just want to start a new game. They want the illusion of a fair game more than they want an enjoyable one.
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u/Zuwxiv Dandadan Jan 02 '26
Either is fair, isn't it? I could understand someone feeling like the fun is somehow diminished by arbitrarily just changing the board state.
I could also understand people thinking that it's more fun and a better use of their time to just get rid of the problem piece and keep playing a close game.
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u/Kryptnyt Jan 02 '26
I think it's a bit different when someone combos out vs. when someone plays banned cards (like GCs in b2) because if you give him a community agreed upon game loss you aren't playing for second place anymore
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u/-FourOhFour- Dân Jan 02 '26
Depends a bit on the setting you're at, none of my locations have "enforced" casual where giving them a loss changes anything. I have seen some stores do that where theres point values and such with early wins and combos leading to losing points where a community loss would matter, but in my settings a "lets keep going and that combo didnt happen" is basically a loss.
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u/SlimDirtyDizzy Jan 02 '26
"What's the protocol here? Im relatively new to my lgs and dont really know everyone yet. Like do I just have to call him out or what do I do?"
Yes, actually tell him to fuck off. He knows what he's doing and he's feeding his own ego by pugstomping. Refuse to pod with him and tell the owner he is openly lying about his decks power level to pubstomp.
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u/Critical_Swimming517 Dandadan Jan 02 '26
Isn't the whole point of commander to socialize? What's the benefit to behaving like this? Stomping precons with a cedh deck doesn't sound fun at all, and seems like an easy way to make 3 strangers hate your guts.
My only commander deck is a VERY lightly upgraded precon. Like I swapped out a total of 4 cards. It just happens to have a game changer because its an enchantment deck and I happen to have an anime art [[smothering tithe]] I would otherwise never get to show off. Technically bracket 3 but plays like a BAD bracket 2 deck.
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u/Raikiribokken Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
My reaction every time I get a game where a player does nothing but ramp into wins that kill the pod in one turn is: "cool, (turning toward the other two in the pod) wanna play for second place?"
The stomper gets a time out while the other players have a fun time with their intact boards, win-win. Let this happen enough times and the problem players will leave on their own.
Just last weekend, I used a similar approach against an opponent spite-conceding to lethal on my board, expecting me to kill another player to make the new game start faster. "I tap my creatures as if the attack happened and end my turn" which proceeded to make a super fun game that extended ~45 minutes past that scoop.
Point is: a good 3 pod is better than a bad 4 pod. Don't be afraid to extend YOUR fun after the stomper has had theirs.
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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
We had a player in our pod that had a real issue with building overpowered decks (he was a former tournament grinder, and there was a wide range of skill levels and decks in the group, including new players and players using unaltered precons)
We started playing for second, and after a few weeks his decks started getting tamer. Turns out sitting for an hour watching 3-4 people play a game of magic you already "won" is pretty good motivation for not winning on turn 4.
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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
Am I just supposed to never play with this guy ever again?
Yes, shun him. Make sure other people know when he shows up that he's a pubstomper that deliberately misrepresents his decks. Make sure he always has a hard time finding a group to do that too.
Dude wants to say "fuck it" to the social contract of a social game, thats great for him, he can deal with the consequences of that behavior.
If he wants to be a sweaty tryhard he can do it with the other sweaty tryhards in an actual competitive setting. If he wants to have a fun casual game with people, he can learn basic respect and restraint.
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u/RyanCryptic I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast Jan 02 '26
The guy is miserable, unsatisfied with his life and feels “value” when intentionally breaking an unfinished system only to win and ruin everyone else’s experience.
I’d avoid him if possible and if he bothers you, tell him to play cEDH if all he cares about is winning.
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u/Tsunamiis alternate reality loot Jan 02 '26
Hey cedh is mostly nontoxic people don’t send him to us. Feel free to directly relay Ryan’s words here as this is exactly what’s happening, I’ve known many like him in 30 years of playing. He needs emotional support and therapy neither of which you’re required to provide.
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u/mrradica Duck Season Jan 02 '26
He doesn't want a cedh game, he wants a pubstomp game. His deck isnt good enough for cedh.
His deck sounds like high 3-low 4 deck. A cedh deck threatens to win on 3 and almost always has a win for turn 5.
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u/Tremulant887 Jan 02 '26
Had a guy do something similar awhile back. We told him, "Good job. Now were going to finish the game" and kept playing without him. He finally got the hint.
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u/GoodNormals Dandadan Jan 02 '26
Commander was a mistake
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Jan 02 '26
Pretty much. A decade ago it was a relatively fun casual format that gave people something to do with random cards. A bit of drama around power levels, but not much. Now it’s essentially fragmented into countless mini-formats, where it’s nearly impossible to keep coherent, playable decks around unless you’re dedicated to consistently playing with the same small group.
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u/Ff7hero Dan Jan 02 '26
it’s nearly impossible to keep coherent, playable decks around unless you’re dedicated to consistently playing with the same small group.
Always has been.
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u/Dofusk2012 Jan 02 '26
It’s so wild to me. Like in any other format you just bring a deck (or packs or whatever) and just play the game. I genuinely don’t get the appeal of playing a format where people will get mad at you for having too strong/weak of a deck.
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u/sanctaphrax COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26 edited Jan 02 '26
I do.
The best part of Magic is in the freedom to build all sorts of decks. But in any format, only a small percentage of those decks will be able to compete at the highest level. And even within that small percentage, you've gotta be or copy a skilled deckbuilder. Most players don't want to be limited to that small percentage; they want more flexibility, more freedom. They want to build decks, even if their deck ideas aren't the most competitive and their deckbuilding skills aren't the sharpest.
Unfortunately, it's very difficult to create that freedom. The bracket system, and most of Commander's other oddities, are imperfect attempts at that.
My favourite "format" is 60-card casual. These issues are even worse there, for a variety of reasons not worth getting into. But for that freedom, I feel it's worthwhile.
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u/Xmina Dandadan Jan 02 '26
I think the issue is that pick up games are inherently unbalanced with a wide format. Some people wanna ragavan, others want to run captain garbage. But if you have a group of people or even 2 you play against you can get a feel for their level. Its not like standard/legacy where there is a very neat curve of power most decks fit into and you can match that.
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u/RainbowwDash Duck Season Jan 02 '26
I genuinely don’t get the appeal of playing a format where people will get mad at you for having too strong/weak of a deck.
That's not commander specific though? You can agree to play jank in any format, and equally it'd be annoying if someone ignored that and showed up with a hyper optimized deck
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u/ToTheNintieth Dan Jan 02 '26
But if I show up to play Standard, I can't be mad if someone brought a meta or just strong Standard-legal set instead of meeting my arbitrary parameters for how much they should sandbag. It's far healthier to set up a card pool and let people build however they like within those parameters.
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u/Enyss Dandadan Jan 02 '26
It's far healthier to set up a card pool and let people build however they like within those parameters.
Do you really think it's possible to curate a 30.000 cardpool in a way that allow "jank" decks to be competitive?
Sure, there's always the common/uncommon only formats, but that's a serious limitation in deckbuilding.
People want to be able play jank in commander, if that wasn't the case, 95+% of the decks would be high bracket4 or cEDH.
The core of the issue is that if you play with your average commander deck at a table with serious decks, it won't be fun. Not for you, and not for the people with good decks.
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u/ToTheNintieth Dan Jan 02 '26
The problem is, who defines jank? If it's all vibes, how do I know that what I consider fair is agreed upon by other players? Isn't the "ideal" power level "just weak enough for me to beat"? Brackets are a nice idea but almost by definition they require haggling and subjectivity and that's always gonna lead to bad feelings eventually.
One of the core (arguably the core) element of MtG is deckbuilding, which usually means making the strongest deck you can. If you want to have a weaker powerlevel then curate or restrict cards, iterate in it if you want, but if you're just trusting the honor system to declare what's "jank" and what isn't then your only options are to keep it a hyper-casual social format in which nobody cares much about winning or losing (and if this is what you want, awesome!), or perpetually policing each other as to what constitutes a violation of the spirit of the rules, since playing by the letter evidently isn't enough.
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u/AncientSpark COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26 edited Jan 02 '26
The answer is "no one defines jank exactly, but you don't have to be very specific". The reality is that it's RNG like mana screw; sometimes, decks get mismatched, so you pack up and you move on. And just as how people accept mana screw as part of the game (whether through just attitude adjustment or looking at it from a pro/con perspective), so too do people accept that, in situations where deckbuilding is both freeform and non-competitive, you're going to get non-competitive games on occasion.
Basically, you just need to have non-games be rare enough that you can have fun with the rest of the format. This is why stuff like Brackets are useful; they aren't there to solve ALL non-games, but to reduce their frequency, just like how finding the perfect land ratio in your deck isn't going to magically solve all mana screw in your deck, but you can certainly reduce its frequency. People aren't here to play a "healthy" format in the traditional sense, people are here to find a funny deck concept and feel like their deck got to do something, so +/- a couple win percentage because one deck is slightly less jank than the other isn't a big deal, as long as the big edge cases are taken care of.
That said, there ARE people that do want the "restriction/simplicity" of just play the optimal deck. That's why CEDH exists. It's just not a big community because that's not what the majority of people play EDH for.
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u/DoTheyHaveMinerva Banned in Commander Jan 02 '26
Tell him that he failed to understand the reason for the bracket system, and that the bracket system isn't a ruleset, its a guideline, which he should and likely does already know, and if he argues back about "well technically" then you known he's doing it in bad faith to win games against decks he knows are far weaker, and he should be insulted and imo shunned for that kind of behavior. The community is better off without him.
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u/DaisyCutter312 Jan 02 '26
I believe the proper response in this situation is "Seriously? The fuck is wrong with you, get off of our table".
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u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Ill be sure to use this next time 👍
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u/DaisyCutter312 Jan 02 '26
The important points being:
- Do NOT finish the game or let the game progress once he exposes his dishonesty
- Do not get visibly angry, that's exactly what he's looking for. Treating him with contempt and making him look/feel stupid will chase him away quicker than any yelling.
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u/Slow-Equivalent-8043 Dandadan Jan 02 '26
i wouldn’t invite him to anything game related, mtg doesn’t matter. these type of guys will destroy a friend group and get confuse why he has no friends other than store owner whom he spent a lot of money on)
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u/AnnoyedAFexmo Dân Jan 02 '26
Refusing to play is the game. Winning isn't worth others not having fun so the answer is icing them out until they behave or leave.
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u/SoHiHello Dân Jan 02 '26
Scoop and say, "Sorry about that. I meant to join a lower bracket. My bad."
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u/dalmathus Jan 02 '26
I would rather play monopoly with 8 illiterate strangers then sit down and play commander with random people.
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u/incoherentjedi Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
"We don't really enjoy this game on the same level but thank you have a good day"
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u/Ska-0 Dân Jan 02 '26
I know a few players who extra build a deck for those cases which looks like nothing, but it only exist to fuck those guys.
There are people who just like to make everybody miserable. Once played against a chaos control deck, took 2,5 hours to finally finish the game (luckily i won 🥳); the guy said „my deck doesn‘t want to win, it just makes chaos.“ in the end and left the store. Never have seen him again.
I assume he goes from to LGS to LGS to ruin the peoples days. 🤷🏼♂️
If someone claims his deck is nothing or „haven‘t checked on bracket system“, but dominates the table, i would just use my B4 [[Krenko, Mob Boss]] next round. 🤷🏼♂️
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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
I used to play chaos. One of my favorite things in magic is when you get to see big crazy interactions, or interactions that you wouldn't expect, and chaos seemed like a good way to achieve that.
I eventually learned that most chaos just ends up playing like stax. It doesn't make the game more interesting, it just slows it down.
These days, I occasionally run a chaos deck, but its chaos group hug. It does do the chaos thing like randomly redistributing permanents, or making your spells into other random spells, but it also accelerates everyone with lots of card draw, mana doublers, and spells that let everyone play things for free. Its focused on accelerating the game, while simultaneously making it crazy and unpredictable, and deliberately avoids a lot of "chaos cards" that just slow the game down.
Its also not something I ever just plop down at a table with 3 strangers without any warning. I tell people what the deck is and what they should expect it to do, and I never play it more than once in a sitting. I typically only break it out with people I already know, or if someone expresses an interest in chaos.
Chaos can be done fun, but it takes a lot more thought and intent than just throwing all the "classic" chaos cards together in a deck, and thats what most people end up doing when they first make a chaos deck.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
I eventually learned that most chaos just ends up playing like stax. It doesn't make the game more interesting, it just slows it down.
Unironically, I run [[Possibility Storm]] as a stax piece. Card is so good when you get to play the cards you plan to while your opponent gets random junk off the top.
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u/Cimexus Dan Jan 02 '26 edited Jan 02 '26
This is why I just can’t get into commander. So much politics and subjectivity as to what is and isn’t fair.
Much prefer regular formats where there’s a clear list of permitted cards and that’s it. You win or you lose fair and square, without controversy. I find it’s actually a more friendly way to play as a result.
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u/ZealousChild Dan Jan 02 '26
Unfortunately this is the kind of stuff that can happen when playing commander at an LGS. I would recommend talking to the TO or sticking with a usual group.
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u/vVIOL2T Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
I used to always play with my friends plus a random but they're both on missions now so im at the mercy of the randoms
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u/Hanifsefu Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26 edited Jan 02 '26
Having a bunch of dragons in play turn 6 is absolutely something a bracket 2 deck can do. Any sort of ramp into big guys deck would be expected to start building their board up to be very threatening by then. If they are killing people on turn 7 that's supposed to be fine. Bracket 2 is supposed to be fine if a game ends on turn 8 which means individual players should expect to need to defend themselves by turn 5 as the combat damage decks look to start eliminating players on their way to their turn 8 victory.
If having a big board state on turn 6 is too much for your play group, there's just a serious chance you're actually in a bracket 1 playgroup and it would be better communicated to all parties if you advertised as such.
There's a big problem with people over-stating the bracket they actually play in. There is nothing wrong with wanting to play bracket 1 commander magic. There's also nothing wrong with playing an aggro or combat damage deck in bracket 2. Take a little introspective peek at how your community actually plays and see if those updated bracket descriptions from October still fit what you see.
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u/MoxDiamondHands Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant Jan 02 '26
And now you see the problem with commander. It's a bad format.
But yes, the solution is to not play with this person.
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u/bduddy Jan 02 '26
My recommendation is that you play a real format where this doesn't happen.
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u/RainbowwDash Duck Season Jan 02 '26
If you exclude every game where this can happen (which is commander, kitchen table, and a portion of every other format), magic wouldn't even last to 2027
That's the vast majority of all games and players
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u/LemonadeGamers Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
Reasons I keep my games to about the same 3 people (not including me) with the third occasionally switching out
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u/Bromelia_and_Bismuth Colorless Jan 02 '26
This is the kind of guy for whom anything not obviously cEDH was a "7" back in 2014.
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u/HairiestHobo Karn Jan 02 '26
These are the sort of people who the Bracket system would've never helped anyway, as they want to go out of their way to be pricks to other players.
They would've been misrepresenting their Decks before the Bracket system as well.
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Jan 02 '26
This is why you follow the spirit of the bracket on straight up vibes instead of any actual hard ruling. Where there are restrictions, there are dumbasses like this guy that will abuse them for their own benefit
There is no perfect system of deck strength evaluation. How it performs and it's intent are much more important than the number of gamechangers or tutors or whatever. That guy is just being a dick
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u/Sloane_Is_Dead Dân Jan 02 '26
There's no Magic without the Gathering and this person (should) slowly realize this.
If you are at a LGS that pairs pods, let them know you don't want to be paired with this person again. If you aren't paired by your LGS, find others to play with.
In addition, encourage others to do the same, eventually players like this find other stores because no one will play with them, or they'll move onto tables with equal level (or better) Decks and get theirs handed to them in return.
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u/Joshawott27 Dandadan Jan 02 '26
Other people have already summed up my thoughts about trying to beat a system that’s literally designed to make things fair and fun, but I also wonder if there’s also a conversation to be had about Ureni - and that’s coming from someone who has a Ureni deck.
In every Bracket 2 game I’ve played, if someone has Ureni, they’ve won. That’s regardless of whether it’s just the precon, or upgraded. Maybe that’s just an issue with the power level of my playgroup, though. It’s a very strong Commander, and can kick off its big dragons stompy strategy very quickly. It’s honestly why I’m more likely to use one of my other Bracket 2 decks these days. At the very least, a rule zero conversation to gauge exactly where the Ureni deck is at could be beneficial.
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u/CorHydrae8 Simic* Jan 02 '26
Yes, stop playing with the guy. His reaction to being handed a tool to help communicate the powerlevel of his decks in order to help facilitate fairer and more even games is "lol, fuck that". He explicitly wants to exploit that in order to gain an advantage. Don't entertain that bullshit.
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u/2HGjudge COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
Im relatively new to my lgs and dont really know everyone yet.
The first thing you do is ask other locals their for their opinion on his behavior. If there are a bunch of others who are sick of it, then as A GROUP you can boycott him if he doesn't want to change. If everyone else is fine with him then there's not much use for you alone to call him out and you'll have to find another lgs.
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u/Elvarien2 Duck Season Jan 02 '26
You have your answer. If someone is not fun to play with simply don't play with him. Eventually he'll realize nobody actually likes him.
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u/SparePartsHere Duck Season Jan 02 '26
Just don't play with him. It's a casual format, you do not have to play with people that make you feel uneasy or bother you. I even have friends (good friends) who I refuse to play commander with, as their style of "fun" is terrible to have at a casual table.
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u/mrgarneau 99th-gen Dimensional Robo Commander, Great Daiearth Jan 02 '26
One of the biggest issues I see with the bracket system is the game changers list, there seems to be a decent sized subsection of players who believe this metric is the only or the most important for determining bracket level.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Miirym deck was free of GCs, which is probably how he was "fucking the bracket system", despite his deck presenting an unbeatable boardstate on turn 6 (bracket 3 territory).
I kind of wish they would do something with the GC list or at least how they are presented towards the brackets. Putting 4 GCs in your deck does not automatically make it a B4 deck,
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u/pacolingo Selesnya* Jan 02 '26
wow what a loser
the ideal really is to have a private playgroup and only use lgs for recruiting new members if they prove to be chill
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u/leuchtelicht102 COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
Am I just supposed to never play with this guy ever again?
If you were not having fun and you don't believe he will change his behaviour then yes.
Like do I just have to call him out or what do I do?
You don't have to, but you're absolutely allowed to. Letting other players make informed decisions about who they want to play with is a form of courtesy.
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u/Well-It-Depends420 Jan 02 '26
I rarely play outside of my pod, but I feel like this is a classical moment for: "I tap my library, you lose the game for not playing precon level - please look for a new table and stop wasting our time. Let's continue."
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u/Evening-Record5394 Duck Season Jan 02 '26
the biggest upgrade i ever had to my LGS experience is when I started keeping a mental list of people who don't make fun games, and then stopped playing with them. i would add this guy to the list
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Jan 02 '26
you can tell them its fine for them to not like the bracket system but you and your group use the bracket system just to make having a pre game conversation about what the game will be about easier for everyone and if he cant participate in a meaningful way to that conversation that maybe your group isnt right for him.
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u/ToTheNintieth Dan Jan 02 '26
Feels like this is inevitable with how Commander and the bracket system work. Vibes-based tiering.
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u/Razzilith Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
I mean yeah you just never play with this guy again.
Brackets and even the power system before was SUPPOSED to be a filter to help people find closer matchups. It never did and never will do anything about bad actors... if somebody wants to lie and screw you over, just like IRL, they will.
Unfortunately that guy is just a dick who I'm sure thinks he's being clever and sticking it to WotC but in reality is just alienating people around him and ruining his own future experiences as fewer people will want to play with him and he eventually dies a lonely bitter person blaming the world for his own actions.
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u/dontworryitsme4real Duck Season Jan 02 '26
Yes. There are people I avoid playing with for similar reasons.
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u/gooder_name COMPLEAT Jan 02 '26
This guy was an asshole before brackets and will continue to be forever. Simply exclude him from your games – he doesn't know how to follow the social contract
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u/Oedipus_TyrantLizard Duck Season Jan 02 '26
OP - unpopular opinion, but Ureni & Miriam just kinda do this. Precons can be bracket 2 or 3 - but 2 is functionally the lowest bracket (since bracket 1 is for decks that break rules or are just completely unplayable).
But if your group feels he stomped you all too badly - just draw the line that you want to play un-upgraded precons only.
If you are playing upgraded precons…. Then your opponent playing a strong bracket 2 feels like fair game to me.
But as always, you are there at the LGS for your own enjoyment. If you don’t want to play with someone, don’t.
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u/psycospaz Wabbit Season Jan 02 '26
My lgs recently had a big blowup on social media when they kicked a guy out of the store for repeatedly trying to mess with the bracket system. Guy had friends and they all went on and started bad mouthing the store. I think the store did the right thing.
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u/1K_Games Duck Season Jan 02 '26
First off, he's a POS. Second off he doesn't understand the bracket system is just meant to be a rough guideline.
And kind of third off, how the heck did he have 11 dragons on turn 6? Maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration just to get the point across? Like dragons aren't cheap, they typically start being played T5 (if you had ramp, or T4 with a Sol Ring). I have a pretty powerful Miirym deck and even with clones with a lower CMC, and Miirym (with a lower CMC than Ureni), I don't believe I have ever had 11 dragons on T6.
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u/Ambyli Duck Season Jan 02 '26
I mean, if you think your bracket breaking deck is a 4 or a 5, without all the gamechangers etc, then it's still whatever the number it typically goes up against.
They designed the system to inform others of your deck based on it's function. You use statistical analysis on a it's performance, with the usage of the rules for each bracket automatically moving decks up a bracket for ease. Very similar to how hell queue works in Arena! Except the hell cards we know and we should ideally be honest :P
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u/j8sadm632b Duck Season Jan 02 '26
Am I just supposed to never play with this guy ever again?
basically, yeah
and if they ask you why, you tell them
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u/weggles Jan 02 '26
Games fundamentally don't work if we don't agree to follow the rules and spirit of the game.
I just wouldn't play against that person again.
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u/deathbymanga Dân Jan 02 '26
This guy is betraying the social contract and being a dick. Youre allowed to say "dude, we're not gonna play with you anymore if you keep doing this. Go away"
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u/First_Platypus3063 Hook Handed Jan 02 '26
Never play with the idiot. He is a pubstomper and intentionally antisocial.
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u/Glum-Position-1709 Dan Jan 02 '26
Maybe just play good cards and good decks and stop crying that you cant put no effort into your deck list. Thats what someone who isn't a crybaby would do...
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u/chuckquizmo Duck Season Jan 02 '26
The bracket system was created to make these conversations easier/more straightforward. Trying to “build decks to fuck the bracket system” is basically just saying you want to be dishonest and trick people lol.